So...How screwed are we?

[Tinker Dragoon]

"Your armor thinks you taste good" screwed.

[VooDu]

Stay sealed if you can and don't touch the metal . Buddy you are really screwed.

[Nekira Sudacne]

well, considering how the majority of Rifts armor and weapons are plastic and ceramic, you really arn't very screwed at all

[VooDu]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

[VooDu]

Don't want to mess it up for the GM sorry . But please be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, careful and maybe read the others Splicers posts, but I didn't say that .

[BookWyrm]

Does the phrase "Update your last will & testimate NOW" have any meaning for you?

[Jesterzzn]

You are screwed enough that if I were a player in this game, I would be seriously ***** unless this is going somewhere good. But, if your GM is just looking for an excuse to use splicers, I would be pissed if I were the borg.

Sounds pretty lame.

[Glistam]

The Combat Borg is dead. Like, should NOT live through the night dead. The GB pilot might be all right (and ultimately, the one least affected permanantly) as long as he doesn't leave his armor. If I were you guys I would endeavor to leave that world as soon as possible. It doesn't matter where you go, just don't stay there.

It's possible that the GM may treat things a little differently from canon, in which case how screwed you are will remain to be seen.

[SkyeFyre]

Um, that actually sounds pretty lame. A good GM wouldn't just kill off characters without a chance for survival.

I could be wrong, but isn't there something in the book that states that full conversion borgs will not be affected by the nano-plague?

Oh wait... nevermind that's just for robots that are controlled by the mind of a living being... technically wouldn't that be a borg? (Page 168 if ya wanna make a call on that yourself)

[Jesterzzn]

That's lame. Unless the GM is a good friend of yours, I would consider finding a new one. Seriously lame.

[Glistam]

SO now we're in the Splicers world. How do you think they'll react to discovering that my character is an enhanced bio-systems borg?

Bio-systems should be able to be replicated by the splicers. How they'll react, once they somehow determine you aren't a Robot spy, is to probably upgrade their army with the wonderful new chance for survival you've given them. You could be the key they needed to turn this war around in their favor.

As far as what happenned with the rest of the group, you guys did everything you could be expected to do. You had no reason to suspect anything different. One small consolation is that the Borg at least seemed to die before his mechanical body turned on his vulnerable fleshy parts and destroyed him from within.

A different way this could've gone was to have the Splicers show up before the borg got screwed. There might have been some way that he could've been saved, and maybe the splicers could've helped him gain a new (maybe even a bio-borg) body. The GB pilot could've eventually gained a suit of Splicers Bio-Armor in replacement.

Basically, while it was a very crappy situation you were put in, it still could've been doable. But it just seemed like your GM wanted to kill some players. Maybe next game he can have you create Palladium Fantasy men-at-arms and then rift you into Rifts and immediately pit you up against mega damage opponents. That would probably be about as much fun.

[The Beast]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

[Glistam]

As long as the GB didn't breath the air from the Splicers world or expose himself to it's atmosphere, he'd be immune to the Nano-Plague.

[demos606]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

Actually, the borg is effectively unaffected by the nanoplague. Despite the "common sense" knowledge that they do retain little fleshy bits, they are for all functional purposes freewilled robotic beings. Your GB pilot and anyone wearing/carrying metal gear however are pretty screwed as soon as they break environmental seals and breath the "fresh" air. BTW, as the GB suit itself has no intelligence, there's no way the NEXUS could have assumed control and had it fire on you.

Just for the record, I'd be killing any GM that pulled this kind of stupid ****.

[SkyeFyre]

Good job!

Sorry I can't really lend any help, I just got the game myself and I've yet to read through it. Just thought I'd give you a for telling that GM off and hope you the best.

[Glistam]

The first step for you as the new GM is to read pg 167, "Character's From Other Palladium Games." Oddly enough, that section doesn't talk about Borgs, but since borgs still need to breathe air they shoul dsuffer the same fate as the othre tech-based characters, except that the Borg woul dhave no way to remove himself from his metal and would simply die while his Borg frame twisted itself horribly into some kind of death machine.

That section of the book mentions how to compensate tech characters, by allowing them to change OCC's to some of the ones in the book. But that would probably best be role played.

[SkyeFyre]

It also refers to more information in the OCC section. Why they couldn't have just put it all together is beyond me. It's on page Page 167-168 if memory serves me correctly. You could look there too.

[Gomen_Nagai]

as for the elf.. i think he would be approached by a avatar agent .. probably gaia, or something, to turn coat..

As while elves were never met before, they were heard of , in fiction..

[SkyeFyre]

I am pretty sure that the nano-plague would affect an elf.

[Severite]

It depends on how you look at it; did they program the nano bots to respond to specific DNA, if they did that is a lot of programing to handle the potential millions of mammalian life; or did they program them to respond to certain stimulus that mammalian life brings. I would personally rule to be certain DNA strands, that way gaia could protect her critters by keeping them off the list, and would allow said bio-borg to be an essential weapon.

[sHaka]

THe GB pilot surviving his armor is going to be hard, but not impossible I think. The 'Borg is a bit harder, but doable.

The 'Borg would be dead within seconds of arriving on the Splicers world.

[sHaka]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

Actually, the borg is effectively unaffected by the nanoplague. Despite the "common sense" knowledge that they do retain little fleshy bits, they are for all functional purposes freewilled robotic beings. Your GB pilot and anyone wearing/carrying metal gear however are pretty screwed as soon as they break environmental seals and breath the "fresh" air. BTW, as the GB suit itself has no intelligence, there's no way the NEXUS could have assumed control and had it fire on you.

Just for the record, I'd be killing any GM that pulled this kind of stupid ****.

The 'Borg would be affected I'm afraid - those little fleshy bits are mammalian - the borg's body is made of non-precious metal. The 'Borg would tear itself apart, proably becoming a drone (depends on the % roll on the reaction table). The fact that it is 'Free willed' has no bearing on the matter.

The GB could certainly behave as described - as long as mammal was in contact with it. It's lack of intelligence as a suit is irelevant - the nano-bots certainly could provoke a plague response as described by Coake (again depending on the % roll, or GM whim) and have the suit rebuilt as drone(it is one of the many possible plague responses).

Bad situation.

[Gomen_Nagai]

thre are no half elves, and certainly she wouldn't be able to breed period since she's a bio borg.


her DNA is diffirent enough that she might not be able to breed period.

[sHaka]

Elves would trigger a plague response in non-precious metal if they came into contact with any.

[demos606]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

Actually, the borg is effectively unaffected by the nanoplague. Despite the "common sense" knowledge that they do retain little fleshy bits, they are for all functional purposes freewilled robotic beings. Your GB pilot and anyone wearing/carrying metal gear however are pretty screwed as soon as they break environmental seals and breath the "fresh" air. BTW, as the GB suit itself has no intelligence, there's no way the NEXUS could have assumed control and had it fire on you.

Just for the record, I'd be killing any GM that pulled this kind of stupid ****.

The 'Borg would be affected I'm afraid - those little fleshy bits are mammalian - the borg's body is made of non-precious metal. The 'Borg would tear itself apart, proably becoming a drone (depends on the % roll on the reaction table). The fact that it is 'Free willed' has no bearing on the matter.

The GB could certainly behave as described - as long as mammal was in contact with it. It's lack of intelligence as a suit is irelevant - the nano-bots certainly could provoke a plague response as described by Coake (again depending on the % roll, or GM whim) and have the suit rebuilt as drone(it is one of the many possible plague responses).

Bad situation.

Borgs do indeed have little mamalian bits, however by nature of their conversion such bits are either:
a) environmentally sealed inside MDC materials, or
b) nonexistant from game balance standpoints.

Given the inability of phase weaponry to affect borg squishy parts, the nanoplague wont bother them either.

[The Beast]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

Actually, the borg is effectively unaffected by the nanoplague. Despite the "common sense" knowledge that they do retain little fleshy bits, they are for all functional purposes freewilled robotic beings. Your GB pilot and anyone wearing/carrying metal gear however are pretty screwed as soon as they break environmental seals and breath the "fresh" air. BTW, as the GB suit itself has no intelligence, there's no way the NEXUS could have assumed control and had it fire on you.

Just for the record, I'd be killing any GM that pulled this kind of stupid ****.

The 'Borg would be affected I'm afraid - those little fleshy bits are mammalian - the borg's body is made of non-precious metal. The 'Borg would tear itself apart, proably becoming a drone (depends on the % roll on the reaction table). The fact that it is 'Free willed' has no bearing on the matter.

The GB could certainly behave as described - as long as mammal was in contact with it. It's lack of intelligence as a suit is irelevant - the nano-bots certainly could provoke a plague response as described by Coake (again depending on the % roll, or GM whim) and have the suit rebuilt as drone(it is one of the many possible plague responses).

Bad situation.

Borgs do indeed have little mamalian bits, however by nature of their conversion such bits are either:
a) environmentally sealed inside MDC materials, or
b) nonexistant from game balance standpoints.

Given the inability of phase weaponry to affect borg squishy parts, the nanoplague wont bother them either.

No, borgs ARE affected by the nano-virus. Sucks to be them.
No, borgs ARE affected by phase weapons. Sucks to be them.

[demos606]

Yes, Borgs are affected by phase weapons just the same as any other thru and thru MD being. Their little SDC squishy parts are NOT targetable by phase weapons however so there's something unique enough that the nanoplague should be ineffective as well.

Just for reference, how do borg's handle vacuum and drowning?

[VooDu]

Read pg. 13 of Splicers. Dragons, Elves, Bug people are all affected by the nano-plague. Also the 'Borg, as the book says on pg. 13, will literally "rip" himself apart unless he is in an airtight suit or vehicle. This is a bad thing for all of the PCs , I am sorry about that. (GM should not have purposely put the 'Borg or GB in Splicers) It is hard enough for the people on Splicers to live for those not knowing DOOM to to those PCs unfortunately so. Elves and humans can not breed per Palladium rules. I think only Gods and Ogres are the few that can breed with humans if I remeber correctly.

[sHaka]

Very true Nekira but the GB and the 'Borg are in for a world of hurt (especially if the GB gets out or lets air in).

Would the GB's interior be enough for the nano-virus to be blocked? I doubt it.

Actually, the borg is effectively unaffected by the nanoplague. Despite the "common sense" knowledge that they do retain little fleshy bits, they are for all functional purposes freewilled robotic beings. Your GB pilot and anyone wearing/carrying metal gear however are pretty screwed as soon as they break environmental seals and breath the "fresh" air. BTW, as the GB suit itself has no intelligence, there's no way the NEXUS could have assumed control and had it fire on you.

Just for the record, I'd be killing any GM that pulled this kind of stupid ****.

The 'Borg would be affected I'm afraid - those little fleshy bits are mammalian - the borg's body is made of non-precious metal. The 'Borg would tear itself apart, proably becoming a drone (depends on the % roll on the reaction table). The fact that it is 'Free willed' has no bearing on the matter.

The GB could certainly behave as described - as long as mammal was in contact with it. It's lack of intelligence as a suit is irelevant - the nano-bots certainly could provoke a plague response as described by Coake (again depending on the % roll, or GM whim) and have the suit rebuilt as drone(it is one of the many possible plague responses).

Bad situation.

Borgs do indeed have little mamalian bits, however by nature of their conversion such bits are either:
a) environmentally sealed inside MDC materials, or
b) nonexistant from game balance standpoints.

Given the inability of phase weaponry to affect borg squishy parts, the nanoplague wont bother them either.

As Voodu said..

Splicers, Pg.13 "The greatest danger is for Cyborgs or anyone with cybernetics or bionics... their own implants to transform and attack them in less than a minute..."

Phase technology is quite different from the N.E.X.U.S nano-bots. To say immunity to one will grant immunity to the other is a sweeping generalisation, the two being so unrelated.

To use a more apt example, just because i'm resistant to meningitis C, doesn't give me any resistance to the common cold.

[The Beast]

[quote="demos606"]Yes, Borgs are affected by phase weapons just the same as any other thru and thru MD being. Their little SDC squishy parts are NOT targetable by phase weapons however so there's something unique enough that the nanoplague should be ineffective as well.

Just for reference, how do borg's handle vacuum and drowning?[/quote]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

Easy. If the 'borg has been made with a containment chamber (ala Mechanoids) they'll live just fine, as per pg. 13 of Splicers. However, if the 'borg wasn't built that way, it is a dead 'borg.

[VooDu]

Amen sHaka. Great points.

[TechnoGothic]

Ok to use a "Common Sense" to the issue i've read.

A Full Conversion Borg with Bionic Lungs, and Full Bionic Organs should be considered "Enviromentaly Sealed".

Now if the Borg's only living part is the Brain feed by IV or whatever. The Brain should be safe until the Head's MDC is ruptured enough to crack the seals allowing the brain to be exposed to the atmosphere somehow.
NO Brain Surgery

Crazies, and Juicers should Out of Luck

The GB Pilot once exposed to the atmosphere wont like getting back in the Armor. After a minute or so, his own body would trigger the nano-plaque killing him.





That GM did WHAT ?!?!?!
The GB came alive and shot the Cyborg ?!?!?
Dear Goodness, that is LAME.

SPLICERS make Splicer Characters, dont bother with RIFTS characters.

Now if your going to play RIFTS, sure make a Splicer character, Build an Armor, Roll 1d10+5 for the starting Level of the character, and to say you have gotten Enhancements for the Host Armor before going to Rifts.

I would be Pissed only Because He had you guys Waste time making characters that were going to die in Splicers.

Splicers is a Magically Dead World too. So most likely once there your stuck.

[sHaka]

Ok to use a "Common Sense" to the issue i've read.

A Full Conversion Borg with Bionic Lungs, and Full Bionic Organs should be considered "Enviromentaly Sealed".

I doubt very much that Rifts bionic lungs could filter nanites - the lungs will be sending oxygen to the brain/organs and I would say nanites as well.

The book even states that Cyborgs are RIP in minutes.

It is possible for the GB to "come alive" (taken over as a drone) - it would depend on whether the pilot touched it or not. I agree though - bit of lame GM ruling in this case in an already extreme cruel situation.

I think Splicers is that last place I would send a RIFTS group if they went Rift hopping. It's just not a nice thing to do.

[TechnoGothic]

Ok to use a "Common Sense" to the issue i've read.

A Full Conversion Borg with Bionic Lungs, and Full Bionic Organs should be considered "Enviromentaly Sealed".

I doubt very much that Rifts bionic lungs could filter nanites - the lungs will be sending oxygen to the brain/organs and I would say nanites as well.

The book even states that Cyborgs are RIP in minutes.

It is possible for the GB to "come alive" (taken over as a drone) - it would depend on whether the pilot touched it or not. I agree though - bit of lame GM ruling in this case in an already extreme cruel situation.

I think Splicers is that last place I would send a RIFTS group if they went Rift hopping. It's just not a nice thing to do.

Which is weider huh?
Crazies can survive their own implants but borgs die.

Its a bad artifical "balance" issue in my book.

GB enviromental filters are enough to protect them.

Full Brain transfered Borgs should be protected too in my opinion.

[Kelorin]

Most 'terrestrial' full conversion borgs ie. Borgs on the planet in Rifts have some degree of environmental shielding, ie gas filtration, portable oxygen canisters, etc. They are encased in heavy MDC body armor on top of their own formidable MDC chassis. Many of the materials in borg armor are high-tech ceramic and high-impact plastic layered composites, and have little actual metal content.

No organic part of a typical full-conversion borg is exposed to environment, and they can typically walk through disease infested ruins, radiation fallout, and sometimes underwater or in a vacuum. Borgs specifically designed for hostile environments ie: space (Mutants in Orbit) or underwater (Underseas), are likely to have their organic bits fully enclosed and environmentally isolated.

I don't see how a borg of this type would be affected within minutes of arriving on Splicers, any more than a normal human in full EBA, or power armor. The only time that a full conversion borg might be in danger would be after sustaining heavy damage that breaches the outer armor layer.

IMHO, the nano-response triggered by metal to flesh contact is intended to apply more to partial conversion borgs, Headhunters, and characters with a more limited degree of bionics and cybernetics, where the interface between those artificial components are immediately accessible to the external environment should be fully affected by the nano-plague, and would I imagine be torn to ribbons as stated.

[Jesterzzn]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

[The Beast]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

[Jesterzzn]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

[TechnoGothic]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

Yeppers.
Phase Weapons can get through their combat armor itself, but not through the bionic body of the borg.

[The Beast]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

Yeppers.
Phase Weapons can get through their combat armor itself, but not through the bionic body of the borg.

It doesn't affect their bionic parts, only their flesh and blood ones.

[TechnoGothic]

It doesn't affect their bionic parts, only their flesh and blood ones.

My Phase World says it cannot Kill a Borg that way, that the Bionic Body is treated as a Living Being.

[Jesterzzn]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

Yeppers.
Phase Weapons can get through their combat armor itself, but not through the bionic body of the borg.

It doesn't affect their bionic parts, only their flesh and blood ones.

Kevin ruled on this. The answer, as handed down by Kevin himself, is in the new FAQ as well as a couple older threads. Borgs are MDC beings, they have no "damageable" fleshy parts.

[The Beast]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

Yeppers.
Phase Weapons can get through their combat armor itself, but not through the bionic body of the borg.

It doesn't affect their bionic parts, only their flesh and blood ones.

Kevin ruled on this. The answer, as handed down by Kevin himself, is in the new FAQ as well as a couple older threads. Borgs are MDC beings, they have no "damageable" fleshy parts.

So that now means the mechanoids are MDC creatures now? After all, they're 'borgs too.

[TechnoGothic]

So that now means the mechanoids are MDC creatures now? After all, they're 'borgs too.

Yeppers.
They are called MECHAnoids after all
Not Brains in the Jar guys

[Jesterzzn]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Borgs are MDC creatures. MDC only. Therefore phase weapons do mega-damage to borgs.

If the borg were wearing armor, yes it would pass through that, until it hit the MDC of the Borg itself.

Yeppers.
Phase Weapons can get through their combat armor itself, but not through the bionic body of the borg.

It doesn't affect their bionic parts, only their flesh and blood ones.

Kevin ruled on this. The answer, as handed down by Kevin himself, is in the new FAQ as well as a couple older threads. Borgs are MDC beings, they have no "damageable" fleshy parts.

So that now means the mechanoids are MDC creatures now? After all, they're 'borgs too.

There is a pretty good debate on this going on in the Mechanoids forum.

[Gomen_Nagai]

As for the original topic... Dude, I'd just kick your GM in the face. Seriously, unless you all have done something REALLY mean to deserve that (which you haven't from the sound of it,) your GM is being a jerk and needs to have his crown/pointy hat/etc taken away from him. If you are that desperate for RPers to not throw him out on his butt on your next meeting, I suggest having someone else GM.

I agree with the kick in his face point ninja made...

Change Gms.

[Lt. Holmes]

An easy way to get around the death-to-cyborg part is make him a Technojacker. Nobody knows how or why Technojackers are able to remain unaffected by the Nano-plague, so it's entirely possible that the full borg has that X-Factor as well.

And if you think about it, the role-playing possibilties are endless. Splicers is a world where people hate and fear technology in all its forms (with good reason). Just imagine how they'd react to someone who (more or less) voluntarily had his body chopped up and replaced with machinery . Behemoths and Kamiikazis would be affected most of all.

The CS Commando would be similarly affected by people like the Saint and Engineers/Librarians. Yeah, the Commando is a little more open-minded than your average CSer, but still...

[TechnoGothic]

An easy way to get around the death-to-cyborg part is make him a Technojacker. Nobody knows how or why Technojackers are able to remain unaffected by the Nano-plague, so it's entirely possible that the full borg has that X-Factor as well.

And if you think about it, the role-playing possibilties are endless. Splicers is a world where people hate and fear technology in all its forms (with good reason). Just imagine how they'd react to someone who (more or less) voluntarily had his body chopped up and replaced with machinery . Behemoths and Kamiikazis would be affected most of all.

The CS Commando would be similarly affected by people like the Saint and Engineers/Librarians. Yeah, the Commando is a little more open-minded than your average CSer, but still...

Good call there.
Just turn the Tech guys into Technojackers

[cornholioprime]

You are screwed enough that if I were a player in this game, I would be seriously ***** unless this is going somewhere good. But, if your GM is just looking for an excuse to use splicers, I would be pissed if I were the borg.

Sounds pretty lame.

Agreed.

Most of the people here are deliberately avoiding telling you what lies in store for you, but jester's right, this IS a Sure Death if your Game goes the way most of us think that it will.

Not even close to a Fair Game.

***EDIT***

Oops. Read a few Posts after that to see what happened. Good for you for dumping your GM!!!!

[cornholioprime]

Please explain how a weapon that space pirates use to kill the crew of a starship can't be used to kill a borg?

It can be, but only after completely depleting the Borgs MDC.

Phase weapons pass through the armor.

Kevn himself officially spoke on this; and we covered it in an old Thread in the Rifts: Demension Books Section.

In short, Kevin simply won't allow such a "silver bullet" as a Phase Weapon to do damage to a "Borg's squishy insides;" he ruled them MDC Beings through and through for Game Balance reasons (with the extremely minimal number of Hit Points available to the partial remains of the 'Borg [there would obviously be no SDC], a single Phase Wep could mow down a Platoon of 'Borgs with a few sweeps if Kevin allowed it to go the other way).