"MDC is the new SDC"

[Killer Cyborg]

Like most, I just think that M.D.C. is overused. I've never played Robotech, but as I understand it, that game got it right. Big giant mechs and huge weapons are M.D., everything else S.D.C. Whenever you get into things like "It's an M.D.C. creature, but S.D.C. weapons do Mega-Damage" then it becomes clear that the scope of M.D.C. has changed considerably. I don't like or dislike it necessarily, it's just interesting to see the change over the course of the years.

But, in the end I'm not a big "mechanics" guy. I'm role-playing to tell a story, and can work with whatever the system is.

This is one of those areas where I agree with you.
Personally, I'd like things to be toned back down to the levels they were in the main book (if not all the way back to Robotech levels).
But it's spilt milk in a lot of ways, and there's no going back.
Vagabonds start with MDC armor, Psi-Stalkers turn MDC against supernatural foes, etc. etc.

Take for example the dinosaurs in Rifts.
They were too powerful to begin with (I don't think that a T-Rex would realistically be impervious to a .50 cal machinegun... and a raptor sure as heck wouldn't be), and New West made them absurdly more powerful.
It bugged me, and it still bugs me.
But if/when I get around to running a Dinosaur Swamp adventure, I plan to use the setting as it is written... big munchkiny dinos and all.
And I don't have a problem with Todd writing the dinos in the book the way he did, because he was just matching the new official power level for dinos as presented in New West.

But even though there's no use crying over spilt milk, there's nothing keeping people from pouring a new glass.
In the case of Rifts, I would love to see writers come up with a lot more SDC enemies and challenges... technically SDC is still supposed to be the norm, even if most of the stuff written is MDC.
That's why I am (ever-so-slowly) working on a Rifter article for more mundane OCCs to represent the more average person, and why I'd like to eventually get around to writing articles full of useful SDC (or low MDC) gear. The flood of MDC can't be necessarily stopped, and it certainly can not be undone, but it might be diluted if people make enough low-powered stuff.

Where does everybody else stand on this sort of thing?

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

[Glistam]

Where does everybody else stand on this sort of thing?

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

Yes. Especailly after reviewing my Robotech Books recently. I currently reduce the values of everything to 10%. I like it, it gives me more SDC monsters (anything less that 10 MDC becomes its equivalent in SDC) and keeps the idea of MDC being really powerful.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Scores of low powered MDC enemies. Or high SDC enemies. Make it so they are not trying to destroy every creature, but instead protect a bunch of SDC folk who don't have the benefit of MDC armor or weaponry.

Other adventurers who've fallen upon some hard times. The players may rescue them, but these adventurers will be less than grateful and attempt to abscond with the players gear. It will of course happen once they are not suited up or anything.

Challenge them by makign it very difficult to obtain repairs or reloads for their equipment. Give them that feeling of desperation where they are doing their best to make it to someplace that can help them, all the while hoping that they can avoid another encounter because they think it will very likely kill them.

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

Definately. Especially the SDC monsters, instead of just SDC Dee Bee's. Does Chipwell make some low cost body armor that is just high SDC? Do enough of the MDC monsters have an exploitable weakness, like the random monsters the old Rifts main book did? What about just some exotic alien monsters and animals, many of which can be SDC?

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

This depends a lot. I see most people having no MDC, especially the further from civilization they are, since it'd be harder to obtain and maintain. I see most people away from major civilization centers living life in various tech levels, depending on what working tech can be scrounged from the area. They would go abotu their lives like any normal person in a small town, but with the constant fear that they are not truely safe.

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

The average character? I can't answer that, it depends on the power level of the game.

[Sentinel]

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

To some extent , yes it does. I long ago stopped using MDC, although I use the canon MDC ratings as a guideline for SDC conversions.
The power-creep of MDC has thus become a power-creep of SDC for me.
When I first read Wormwood, I thought I would dislike it because everything was MDC, but I found that, since I made the conversion, this didn't matter much. Characters like the Holy Terror were still powerhouses even in an SDC system.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Yes; primarily because I take advantage of menaces and opponents from a variety of Palladium books. Martial Artists, aliens, Intelligences, supernatural beings, super-beings, Mechanoids, as well as more mundane challenges like enviornmental hazards (desert, tundra, avalanches, ley-line storms, etc).

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

Yes, although for my campaigns, the distinctions aren't as significant.

What would be of more interest to me, would be a re-scaling of damage, one in which it didn't take so long to pierce armour, and where larger weapons did more damage based on their size.
I have had a great deal of success with adding Constant Damage modifiers to weapons based on size and type. Simply adding +5 to laser pistols made them more damaging than slug-throwers (+10 for most rifles, etc). Using Aliens Unlimited has also helped make advanced weapons more lethal on the small scale.
SDC is deadly again.

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

The average human inhabitants of my Rifts' campaign are very much like medieval Europeans: by and large, uneducated, and of varying degrees of health (generally, SDC is 15-30, Hit Points are 15-25). Their belongings are generally very simple, not unlike settlers of the American West, with weaponry plentiful but not terribly advanced.
This changes with the average PC adventurer, as their average equipment and weaponry is more in line with their OCC description (thus, far better armed). NPCs are equiped as PCs are, in terms of weapons, vehicles, etc.
Lifestyle is entirely dependant on where the campaign is taking place: obviously inside the walls of Chi-Town is very different from the frontier of the New West, neither of which is like living in Splynn.

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

Armour is largely dependant on the OCC: Gunslingers may wear less than Headhunters, who don't wear as much as Full Conversion Borgs. I do tend to "suggest" for certain character classes that light armour is more appropriate for some (mages, for example) than heavy armour.
Damage is a matter of character class as well, and is particularly hard to chart since I use all the Palladium Megaversal games (everything but Recon, Splicers, Manhunter, Systems Failure and the original Mechanoids).
I don't feel the need to keep all the characters within each others' damage potentials (Martial Artists will obviously do more in HtH than a Gunslinger, but less in a gunfight: Superbeings will do more or less depending on their powers).

Weaponry is available in varying degrees across North America, and different types are more common than others.

The level of the campaign will also determine how powerful a character will need to be ("You must do XXX Damage to Ride This Campaign").

[Killer Cyborg]

Where does everybody else stand on this sort of thing?

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

Yes. Especailly after reviewing my Robotech Books recently. I currently reduce the values of everything to 10%. I like it, it gives me more SDC monsters (anything less that 10 MDC becomes its equivalent in SDC) and keeps the idea of MDC being really powerful.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Scores of low powered MDC enemies. Or high SDC enemies. Make it so they are not trying to destroy every creature, but instead protect a bunch of SDC folk who don't have the benefit of MDC armor or weaponry.

Other adventurers who've fallen upon some hard times. The players may rescue them, but these adventurers will be less than grateful and attempt to abscond with the players gear. It will of course happen once they are not suited up or anything.

Challenge them by makign it very difficult to obtain repairs or reloads for their equipment. Give them that feeling of desperation where they are doing their best to make it to someplace that can help them, all the while hoping that they can avoid another encounter because they think it will very likely kill them.

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

Definately. Especially the SDC monsters, instead of just SDC Dee Bee's. Does Chipwell make some low cost body armor that is just high SDC? Do enough of the MDC monsters have an exploitable weakness, like the random monsters the old Rifts main book did? What about just some exotic alien monsters and animals, many of which can be SDC?

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

This depends a lot. I see most people having no MDC, especially the further from civilization they are, since it'd be harder to obtain and maintain. I see most people away from major civilization centers living life in various tech levels, depending on what working tech can be scrounged from the area. They would go abotu their lives like any normal person in a small town, but with the constant fear that they are not truely safe.

Thanks for the input!

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

The average character? I can't answer that, it depends on the power level of the game.

I guess that's part part of what I'm asking.
Is the average character in your game a CS Grunt, a Scholar, or a Godling? Also, I guess, what do you see as normal for your version of Rifts Earth.. how common are the different classes?

[Sentinel]

I guess that's part part of what I'm asking.
Is the average character in your game a CS Grunt, a Scholar, or a Godling? Also, I guess, what do you see as normal for your version of Rifts Earth.. how common are the different classes?

For the most part, the average (non-adventurer) is a human, a little bit tougher than a BtS Victim character.
The average adventurer is likely to be a Man-At-Arms of some kind, with everyone liking something different. I have run games where everyone wanted something different from the Mercenaries book, for example: One was a Special Forces Soldier, while another was a Safecracker, and another was a spell casting Super-Spy.
But then too, I've had games where everyone wanted to be something different and no one wanted to be a man-at-arms.

[Riftmaker]

I remember the days when things didn't get out of hand.

When a Grunt in heavy deadboy armor could expect his armor to take four or five hits give or take before he needed to get it fixed.

When the Techno wizard was the man becuase he could make a flaming sword that did 4d6 MD!

Oh for the days when all we had were sourcebook one, and vampire kingdoms.

[Glistam]

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

The average character? I can't answer that, it depends on the power level of the game.

I guess that's part part of what I'm asking.
Is the average character in your game a CS Grunt, a Scholar, or a Godling? Also, I guess, what do you see as normal for your version of Rifts Earth.. how common are the different classes?

In general, the higher the power level of the class, the less common it is. Most of the games I used to run we've been comfortable having characters with minor (double digit, or low hundreds if technological) amounts of MDC. That's before I scale it down.

[Killer Cyborg]

I remember the days when things didn't get out of hand.

When a Grunt in heavy deadboy armor could expect his armor to take four or five hits give or take before he needed to get it fixed.

When the Techno wizard was the man becuase he could make a flaming sword that did 4d6 MD!

Oh for the days when all we had were sourcebook one, and vampire kingdoms.

Yup.
CB1 came out, and it went mostly downhill from there... dagnabbit.

[Riftmaker]

I remember the days when things didn't get out of hand.

When a Grunt in heavy deadboy armor could expect his armor to take four or five hits give or take before he needed to get it fixed.

When the Techno wizard was the man becuase he could make a flaming sword that did 4d6 MD!

Oh for the days when all we had were sourcebook one, and vampire kingdoms.

Yup.
CB1 came out, and it went mostly downhill from there... dagnabbit.

Soon we'll have a new sourcebook 1 and the good old days will be hear again.

[Dead Boy]

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

Quite frankly, though I dabbled with TMNT & Other Strangeness, Rifts was the first Palladium game that I really got into. As such not only am I quite comfortable with the MDC system, but to use an even larger mix of MDC and SDC rules feels uncomfortable and out of place. For me, essentially, this is the way it's always been.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Have you people even considered challenging the players by mixing things up? Say for instance, adding an element of mystery or problem solving to the game? Maybe puting the characters in situations where they aren't at 100% fighting efficinecy? Perhaps even placing them in the rare but memorable Kobayashi Maru scenario where the only way to win is to either cheat (requiring thinking and strategy) or retreat to save their bacon, or both? Though straight combat shouldn't be shunned, adding any of these to the game can increase the difficulty level. But take precautions as a GM to make sure the situation doesn't turn into a PC meat grinder. No one likes a "Killer GM".

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

Actually, yea, I would. It would give the GMs a broader pool of baddies to draw from to fill more situations. However it isn't that hard to make such NPCs and toys on your own, even if they aren't canon. Like for instance I've toyed with ideals like the "Street Legal Wilk's 210 Pocket Pistol" for cities where MD weapons aren't permitted. By making it a 50 shot 6D6 SDC weapon, (6MD max X 3 shots = 18MD; 18 MD x 100 = 1800SDC; 1800 x 36SDC max = 50 shots), you now have a SDC-level deadly weapon that won't slay any character in a single shot. Though not canon, it is a way of toning things down to fit a given setting, but still retaining the wealth of options for the player characters' armament.

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

It really depends on where they live. Those living in the mid levels of Chi-Town have a life not so different from you and me; working form 9 to 5 and living in the world of Paycheck Jonny. The only real difference is they would have access to cooler toys & entertainment, and they could go the the Burbs or lower levels for those things they can't redily get over the counter (including exposure to the alien). Gear wise they'd prpbaly have legal access to MD weapons & armor, but they're probably on the low end of power given the price to wage ratios involved. If we're talking about a farmer on the fringe of society or some D-Bee village, they would be living in a world of far greater danger on a daily basis. They would be mostly dependant on protection from whatever nation they're closest to (The CS, Lazlo, Los Alamo...). Since they are, by definition, dirt poor farmers money isn't exactly flowing, so the kind of gear they would probably have would be either the economical kind (like the CFT E-6 shooters where rounds can be bought individually, or conventional assault rifles with ramjet rounds), or be their local protectors may have arms and equipment on loan to them, issued for their self protection (like Coalition C-12's for CS farmers, or pre-charged TW Firebolt Muskets for those under Lazlo's umbrella...)

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

Your average characters is much less weighed down by the economics of the game than your typical dirt farmer. As such better armor in the 60-70+ MDC range is pretty common. Being armed with a 6D6 MD pulse rifle is no big deal because most other like charcters are armed with weapons of similar to identical capabilities.

[Shiva7]

My solution was simple, but involved...


I unified both systems. I created a single cohesive HP/SDC/MDC system that brought everything inline.

The involved part of it was going through all the various different creatures and equipment and sorting out what was underpowered, over powered and just plain dag-nasty.

Any bengs that didn't warrant MDC conversion in a high magic environment was reverted back to it's official SDC stats with slight modifications to accept the new PV/AR rules. Modern SDC vehicles saw a significant boost in power while MDC vehicles saw a boost in weapon damage (either a flat out increase or burst capable).

System conversions became inherent and simple and SDC became a threat to MDC. (MDC was redefined as simply being a multiplier for SD; x100, I eliminated the whole has to do more than 100 SDC to do 1 MD for low MDC item, but kept it for large MDC item). Only magic and supernatural forces needed conversion, anything that was not linked to either saw no change in stats went traveling between worlds. Yes, a laser pistol did 2D6x100 SDC in PFRPG, but other factor balanced it out.

In the end, it didn't really matter if Palladium released new MDC being because they tend to always include the SDC stats with then, thus i can choose which set of stats to apply.

[Riftmaker]

One of these days im going to just turn all MDC stuff to SDC.

Every thing should work fine, with just a bit of work.

[Sentinel]

One of these days im going to just turn all MDC stuff to SDC.

Every thing should work fine, with just a bit of work.

It works: trust me.

[Riftmaker]

One of these days im going to just turn all MDC stuff to SDC.

Every thing should work fine, with just a bit of work.

It works: trust me.

I'll PM you for advice later

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

One of these days im going to just turn all MDC stuff to SDC.

Every thing should work fine, with just a bit of work.

I've done this too. It's great. Unfortunately my current group would rather play MDC so I haven't done it in a couple of years.

[Kagashi]

Where does everybody else stand on this sort of thing?

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

1) Yes and no. I dont like how critters who are not creatures of magic nor supernatural somehow become mega damage critters on Rifts Earth. The best example being the Dinos of the New West and Dino Swamp. They are not demons. They are dinos. Melech, Fury Beatles, Rhino-Buffalos, and a few others (Revised Converson Book) Minataurs included. How are they any more dangerous than an Elephant or Tiger? That being said, I like how some beigs can take MDC as if it were SDC (like the new psistalkers) depending on the situation.

2) Thats the difference between roll playing and role playing. A good GM will keep it interesting well beyond goign up againts MD opponent after MD opponent. Give them riddles. Adult situations. make them use their heads.

3) Yep. SDC is cool. So is MDC, but I still like SDC.

4) I picture the "averge" human as a vagabond/farmer/consumer/hunter. I still like to think of Rifts as a post apocolypes type world. Not Post post. Those characters are likely to have cheaper equipment, however due to MD threat, they would likely to have weapons that could at least proove to a MD critter that this puny human can hurt it. NG explosive shotgun shells or ramjet rounds in a conventional rifle is an awesome example of that. Cheap, common MD energy weapons are okay in this environment. Basic 1D6 wilks laser pistols are pretty much okay. Im not talking adventurers though. As far as a player character, that person would prolly have a hand held weapon that dishes out MAXIMUM 1D4X10 and that would be rare. 3D6-5D6 is pretty fair for the normal hand held side arm.

5) As above, however I think that power armor, bots, and vehicals are very underrated. Id boost damages by at least X2 for PA, X3 for bots and vehical mounted stuff. Likewise, MDC also. As for players themselves. no more than 100 MDC and I think that should be rare. Body armor, even the heavy stuff, shoudl only provide 2-3 direct hits worth of protection (thats only like 30 MDC for the average armor). A player should know that going up against a bot or a PA is virtual suicide.

[Killer Cyborg]

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

Yep, it bothers me. Bothers me enough that it was one reason I stopped playing Rifts. I thought MDC was rare then almost every creature was it, every OCC had it, so it was hard to envision the game without MDC growing on trees.

After CB1 came out, I remember overhearing some guy at the gaming shop say, "I need a vibro-knife to cut my eggs, they've suddenly become mega-damage!"

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Of course. I hardly ever used high MDC enemies in games I run, other than maybe a final boss type encounter, but I prefer having challenges made against lower MDC or SDC types. The hard part is getting some players to leave the MDC gear at home.

One of the biggest things that got me thinking along those lines was the Robotech novels, actually... the ones set on Earth after the Invid invaded.
The party would be in SDC gear most of the time and they didn't have to fear getting instantly killed because MDC was a scarcity. Then the Invid would come to town and the party (having warning) suit up for the final battle.
Seems like this should be the typical Rifts adventure for most characters.

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

Heck yeah! I hated additions like the Iron Juggernauts and other high MDC creatures. With the rules it takes forever to kill something with 1500 MDC! I find the challenge with that is getting through the dang fight without boring each other to tears with the "I shoot", "I hit", "I do damage" narrative. I find nothing destroys the "vision" of the game scene better than having to repeat the same action 42 times.

One of the things that I loved about Rifts initially was the sheer deadliness of the game. Even 80 MDC wasn't much if somebody emptied a clip into you. These days, with higher MDC and no burst rules, combat does tend to take longer (unless your party all has weapons that do 1d6x10 MD or more).

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

Well, if you go by OCC's out there, then everyone has decent gear and MDC armor, since every job out there starts with it, even if combat isn't part of the job. I mean if a Vagabond can start with MDC, wouldn't a person with a real job have some too? Without very many "normal person" OCC's it can be hard to get a feel on how they might live.

I'll try to finish up that Rifter article I'm working on....

I would think the majority have no gear, live in low tech places, and have hard lives trying to survive, relying more on the local champion or outside help (CS, or whoever). That sounds nice, but I have a hard time with it since a single demon who could turn invisible would be able to destroy the entire village easily unless there are a bunch of champions with decent gear or a PA/Robot pilot handy. My opinion would be ruined towns scattered all over the wilderness, with large technological or magical enclaves in certain areas. Probably why I liked Australia.

Originally, things were painted where many towns had some sort of Mega-Damage champion... a Cyberknight, a headhunter (or group of headhunters), a Glitterboy, or some other PC class defending (or ruling) the town.
That's one way that the towns would survive.
Another way would be the time-tested fantasy tradition of human sacrafice. The invisible devil-creature leaves the town alone (more or less) in exchange for them staking a person out in front of its cave once a month or so...

Or they get their town leveled and they scatter off to new places.
Or they manage to exploit the monster's vulnerability (in the Rifts book, most randomly rolled monsters were vulnerable to water, silver, iron, fire, or something... a trend that unfortunately was not continued in later books).
With RUE, SDC weapons that do a combined 100+ SDC damage in one attack can harm mega-damage creatures... to that .50 calibre machinegun now has new use, as do assault rifles and other of the more powerful SDC weapons.

All of this should have been expanded on by the writers earlier, rather than focusing on new MDC toys exclusively... but maybe future writers will do more along these lines.

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

I liked the 35-55 MDC range for the average character, maybe 60-100 for the heavy combat types, which could be augmented by magic or tech, but rarely permanent. For dishing out damage, doing 5-10 for pistols/low magic, 10-25 for rifles/med magic, and 25-40 for heavy weapons/high magic was good for me. It was ok to have higher averages, since you could always find bigger and nastier things in Rifts, but I like lower powered games.

I actually found I had more fun completely redoing the game, like Sentinel or Shiva, and making the game more dangerous, but not more deadly. Using things like the 1:10 ratio along with armor penetration, refitting armor rating, changing how natural MDC works, changing some weapon damages, making vibro weapons armor piercing, and so on. I found it was much easier to get hurt without being killed, and using tactics was more beneficial instead of getting the heaviest weapon/armor and slugging it out. Armor lasted longer, certain weapons became more rare since they had better chances of piercing armor, and it was easy to create additions to armor to augment survivability against certain weapon types.

I enjoy colorful combat myself....but opinions may vary.

I prefer combat to be rather deadly, and I've always liked that in Rifts you are typically fine until your armor is breached and then you're just some red paste in a shell...

[Sentinel]

I prefer combat to be rather deadly, and I've always liked that in Rifts you are typically fine until your armor is breached and then you're just some red paste in a shell...

Unless you're an Auto-Dodging Juicer, or a high-level CS Commando (with HtH: Commando), or a Quick-Flex Alien, or a Cyber Knight, or a Crazy...

[Killer Cyborg]

I prefer combat to be rather deadly, and I've always liked that in Rifts you are typically fine until your armor is breached and then you're just some red paste in a shell...

Unless you're an Auto-Dodging Juicer, or a high-level CS Commando (with HtH: Commando), or a Quick-Flex Alien, or a Cyber Knight, or a Crazy...

Usually the shot that breaches your armor kills you... well, at least it did before RUE...

[Jesterzzn]

What turned me off to MDC as a useful system was when I was playing as a Lizard Mage in a campaign (I was an NPC guest this wasn't my PC), and had to make a blood sacrafice of my own blood. Problem was that the knife had to be made of mundane silver, and so I could not cut myself. I remember thinking how increadilbly silly that sounded. So from that moment on MDC for living creatures became simply a guideline in the majority of my games. I still use MDC, but I often fudge the rules that govern it for the sake of realism and fun. That includes MDC dinos, they don't exist in my games.

[glitterboy2098]

Take for example the dinosaurs in Rifts.
They were too powerful to begin with (I don't think that a T-Rex would realistically be impervious to a .50 cal machinegun... and a raptor sure as heck wouldn't be), and New West made them absurdly more powerful.
It bugged me, and it still bugs me.

yeah, i was a bit shocked to see the new west dino's too. then i remembered my TDTMNT, and figured they're mutants due to a TE differance.

and you can always jusr convert directly from MDC to SDC, and multiply damage dealt by their attacks 10.

as it is, i plan to go with the time mutant theory, since it opens up more avenues of play.

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

yes, to a degree. i have no problem with MDC weapons becoming more common, though the sheer variety is a little weird.

i do have a problem with creatures or races getting MDC without some halfway plausable reason given. for example, if a race has just really tough skin, or is really dense, give them X x100 sdc. not X MDC. leave the natural MDC to the supernaturals.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Roleplay.
send them on a hunting trip. can't eat vaporised deer. and most people have no clue as to how to really hunt.

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

yes, even if only to outfit NPC's

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

ever watched The Postman? the town dewllers are pretty much what i see. simple, ignorant farmers that cling to the past for comfort, and are pretty much defenseless against a competent enemy.

I thought MDC was rare then almost every creature was it, every OCC had it, so it was hard to envision the game without MDC growing on trees.

it does. Steeltree's

These days, with higher MDC and no burst rules, combat does tend to take longer (unless your party all has weapons that do 1d6x10 MD or more).

there are burst rules. they're built into the WP's now. but most energy wepons don't have them, save for pulses. (which allows a L-20 to do as much damage as a C-27, for half the cost.)

[Killer Cyborg]

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Roleplay.
send them on a hunting trip. can't eat vaporised deer. and most people have no clue as to how to really hunt.

Do you think that you could have fun role-playing hunting?
I've wondered about this, because hunting video games are popular and it is one of the more interesting parts of Oregon Trail II...

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

ever watched The Postman? the town dewllers are pretty much what i see. simple, ignorant farmers that cling to the past for comfort, and are pretty much defenseless against a competent enemy.

Good comparison.

[glitterboy2098]

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Roleplay.
send them on a hunting trip. can't eat vaporised deer. and most people have no clue as to how to really hunt.

Do you think that you could have fun role-playing hunting?
I've wondered about this, because hunting video games are popular and it is one of the more interesting parts of Oregon Trail II...

i'm not so sure about the players, but i'd be laughing so hard i'd hurt myself.

the hunting trip is a good 1st encounter, since they have to think about it, have to plan their strategy, and have to cover their bases.

later, you can make an adventure out of other RP events.

use that barroom brawl example (where MD weapons fire collapses the bar when the sdc walls get shot out) to illustrate the follies of using a bazooka to kill a misquito

ect.

teach them to avoid using MD weapons unless needed.

[Cinos]

One thing I do every now and then is to put players in a postion where they don't have M.D armor at the moment, but their enemies have both M.D weapons and armor. That is when they MUST be creative, or they will not win, and even a single mistake can turn them into nothing more than a pair of smoking boots (though I make sure there is plenty of cover so that they still have options open to them). One such exmaple is when the group was all CS soldiers, comming home from a successful campian, and the military decided (the players suggestted it) to throw a victory parade. So there they where, in nothing but their dress uniforms, and armed only with C-18 Pistols, and patly covered M.D.C hover trucks when some assassins attack (a dozen total), armed with Wilk rifles and some Plastic Man armor. The group fended them off (the Hover Trucks became a Favorate weapon, as if you get hit by a truck going 90 MPH, you're flying back armor or not).

Cinos

[Killer Cyborg]

Because of the potential for incredible focus of power in a small arrea I think HU2 is better to compare RIFTS to than Robotech.

In Robotech, MD existed ONLY in terms of mecha. Only in HU2 do we see the variety in power levels and sources that even approximates RIFTS.

SDC works for HU2. Let it work for RIFTS.

That the only reason SDC ever becomes important is in contrived and controlled experiments is indicative of the fact that the damage system is flat-out broken.

If you're saying that SDC is broken, then I'll agree...

[Killer Cyborg]

Because of the potential for incredible focus of power in a small arrea I think HU2 is better to compare RIFTS to than Robotech.

In Robotech, MD existed ONLY in terms of mecha. Only in HU2 do we see the variety in power levels and sources that even approximates RIFTS.

SDC works for HU2. Let it work for RIFTS.

That the only reason SDC ever becomes important is in contrived and controlled experiments is indicative of the fact that the damage system is flat-out broken.

If you're saying that SDC is broken, then I'll agree...

It's a system as a whole, you can't just blame 1 part of it.

The whole thing needs to be shifted to SDC, there wasn't ever really a reason to change it in Robotech and there wasn't a reason to compound the error in the 20 years since then. Recon handled big military gear, HU2 handles individual beings of immense power, BtS1 handled magic and the supernatural, N&SS handled everything, AU handles spaceships and aliens.

MDC was never neccessary for anything. Ever.

I disagree.
The concept of SDC is nice, but it's poorly executed and combined with the AR system just leads to a big mess.
It could be fixed, but the MDC system doesn't need to be fixed at all... just used better (meaning less).

[grandmaster z0b]

I actually like AR much more than silly MDC. It's ridiculous that a guy in body armour can be shot by three rail gun bursts and the armour doesn't breach but when a guy slices him with a vibro knife for 1-2 damage the entire thing collapses.

I make dinosaurs and non-magical beasts SDC, either their MDC x10 or MDC x100 if I think they deserve it.

I still make 1 MDC=10 SDC but SDC cannot damage SDC except for certain situations - I have a lot more armours have hundreds of SDC rather than true MDC. True MDC armour (dead boy etc.) has a huge AR (aprox 25) but for each ten MDC done the AR lowers by one. Rail guns and certain other weapons get a plus to AR. So a boom gun can still kill an infantry man in one shot even if it only does 40 MDC (roll to hit is 18, +3 for aimed shot plus laser targeting bonus +3 to armour pirecing =25) instead of blowing the armour away, it blows a hole right through it.

I would like to readjust MDC to just cover mechs and military vehicles but that would require a large re-working which I don't have time for at this stage.

[Sentinel]

Because of the potential for incredible focus of power in a small arrea I think HU2 is better to compare RIFTS to than Robotech.

In Robotech, MD existed ONLY in terms of mecha. Only in HU2 do we see the variety in power levels and sources that even approximates RIFTS.

SDC works for HU2. Let it work for RIFTS.

That the only reason SDC ever becomes important is in contrived and controlled experiments is indicative of the fact that the damage system is flat-out broken.

If you're saying that SDC is broken, then I'll agree...

It's a system as a whole, you can't just blame 1 part of it.

The whole thing needs to be shifted to SDC, there wasn't ever really a reason to change it in Robotech and there wasn't a reason to compound the error in the 20 years since then. Recon handled big military gear, HU2 handles individual beings of immense power, BtS1 handled magic and the supernatural, N&SS handled everything, AU handles spaceships and aliens.

MDC was never neccessary for anything. Ever.

I disagree.
The concept of SDC is nice, but it's poorly executed and combined with the AR system just leads to a big mess.
It could be fixed, but the MDC system doesn't need to be fixed at all... just used better (meaning less).

One of the problems with MDC, is that suddenly, things like lava, hurricanes, falls, avalanches...things that all were deadly before now have to do MD in order to deadly, otherwise, a suit of MDC armour makes one impervious to everything natural.
But, as Rifts Canada shows, things like cold do affect MD...so, what, nothing SD could survive? Which is erronous, because obviously, while dangerous, cold wasn't MDC.
AR isn't a bad mechanic, and yes it could use some tweaking (PV helped this a lot), but SDC worked a lot better across the spectrum that does MDC.

[grandmaster z0b]

One of the problems with MDC, is that suddenly, things like lava, hurricanes, falls, avalanches...things that all were deadly before now have to do MD in order to deadly, otherwise, a suit of MDC armour makes one impervious to everything natural.
But, as Rifts Canada shows, things like cold do affect MD...so, what, nothing SD could survive? Which is erronous, because obviously, while dangerous, cold wasn't MDC.
AR isn't a bad mechanic, and yes it could use some tweaking (PV helped this a lot), but SDC worked a lot better across the spectrum that does MDC.

Totally agree

[Killer Cyborg]

I actually like AR much more than silly MDC. It's ridiculous that a guy in body armour can be shot by three rail gun bursts and the armour doesn't breach but when a guy slices him with a vibro knife for 1-2 damage the entire thing collapses.

For one thing, that still applies with SDC armor.
For another thing, it leads to cases where you shoot a person/object/creature 5 times and half the time the bullets just bounce off, but the other have they do damage. That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

I make dinosaurs and non-magical beasts SDC, either their MDC x10 or MDC x100 if I think they deserve it.

As it should be.

[Killer Cyborg]

One of the problems with MDC, is that suddenly, things like lava, hurricanes, falls, avalanches...things that all were deadly before now have to do MD in order to deadly, otherwise, a suit of MDC armour makes one impervious to everything natural.

That's not a problem with MDC, it's a problem with mis-applying MDC.
Lava is hot enough that it could well inflict mega-damage. I don't see a problem with that.
Hurricanes can throw items with mega-damage force. I don't have a problem with that either.
Falls shouldn't hurt MDC armor or creatures one bit.
Avalanches are still deadly to MDC creatures and people in MDC armor because they bury you alive.

But in general, why shouldn't Mega-damage make you impervious to most of what nature can throw at you?

It's Mega-Damage. It's supposed to be tough.
When HU came out with the Invulnerability power, did they have to up the damage of falls, lava, huricanes, etc. to compensate?
No.
Because it's stupid to have tough armor (or skin) if everything else in the world upgrades so that it can still damage you.
MDC isn't stupid, but gratuitous mis-application of it definitely is.

But, as Rifts Canada shows, things like cold do affect MD...so, what, nothing SD could survive? Which is erronous, because obviously, while dangerous, cold wasn't MDC.

I am pretty much completely underwhelmed by all parts of Canada that I have read.
In general, this case seems to be yet another mis-application of mega-damage. Like the Mega-damage Grizzlies that the book introduced.

It's like the writers don't grok the concept of mega-damage.

AR isn't a bad mechanic, and yes it could use some tweaking (PV helped this a lot), but SDC worked a lot better across the spectrum that does MDC.

PV would help if they worked it into a coherent system that functioned with the Armor Rating. In fact, if they got this going than Mega-Damage could well be worked into the equation as well.

SDC is a nice idea poorly executed.

[Killer Cyborg]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

Like the example says, you can shoot a tank all day with a .45 and not damage it. Some materials are just too strong for most weapons.

Could it be done better?
Yes. Personally, I think that they could come up with a bunch of different levels of damage... decadamage, etc.
Or better yet, come up with a flat Damage Resistance system. DR of 100 means that you have to do 100 points of damage to inflict 1 point of damage to the structure (mega-damage), DR of 50 would be half as good, etc.

Can't the same thing be accomplished with Penetration Values?
Yes, it probably could.
Shame that it isn't.

[Killer Cyborg]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

Like the example says, you can shoot a tank all day with a .45 and not damage it. Some materials are just too strong for most weapons.

I disagree with this sentiment. Given time I could cut a tank in half using drops of water.

Fine, but that's a flaw with the SDC rules as well.
Unless a drop of water does 1 point of SDC damage.

[Shiva7]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

Like the example says, you can shoot a tank all day with a .45 and not damage it. Some materials are just too strong for most weapons.

I disagree with this sentiment. Given time I could cut a tank in half using drops of water.

That's a misleading statement. Rain won't hurt anything except for maybe vampires and the likes, but an extremely high-pressure jetstream of water might be able to do what you suggest, if given enough time (not really combat effective).

[Shiva7]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

A single SDC system cannot handle all power levels going right up to god status ina high magic environment like rifts. The numbers get too ridiculous.

Only one system is needed, but the SDC and MDC scales must be unified (something I have been promoting for years now).

AR is a completely flawed system, and though the concept ofPV is great, there is no effective way to combine it with AR save for silly illogical "for-game-balance" rules.

AR needs to be redefined and mathced to the PV scale and then expanded right up into the MDC range.

PS is also unnecessarily complicated with so many different categories, each being trated differently. A single unified PS table is possible. I can post one if you want to see how it can be done.

[KLM]

Two things:

- The system has to model battleships. Even a CS Navy battleship
or the PW space dreadnoughts.

- The PS is flawed. the 150 tons Triax Devastator with its
PS 60 can lift 2700 kgs. (6000 lbs). Looks like that even
the giant rifle is heavier.

Adios
KLM

[Shiva7]

Two things:

- The system has to model battleships. Even a CS Navy battleship
or the PW space dreadnoughts.

- The PS is flawed. the 150 tons Triax Devastator with its
PS 60 can lift 2700 kgs. (6000 lbs). Looks like that even
the giant rifle is heavier.

Adios
KLM

Who are you talking to?

[KLM]

Shiva7:

Only one system is needed, but the SDC and MDC scales must be unified (something I have been promoting for years now).

Me:

- The system has to model battleships. Even a CS Navy battleship
or the PW space dreadnoughts.

An addition, to consider for the above.

Shiva7:

PS is also unnecessarily complicated with so many different categories, each being trated differently. A single unified PS table is possible. I can post one if you want to see how it can be done.

Me:

The PS is flawed. the 150 tons Triax Devastator with its
PS 60 can lift 2700 kgs. (6000 lbs). Looks like that even
the giant rifle is heavier.

Basically the same - consider this to your PS table (if not done
already)

Shiva7:

Who are you talking to?

I was trying to communicate with you, but that might
be out of my limits

Adios
KLM

[Shiva7]

Unified Physical Strength Chart

Converting standard PB strength to Unifed system:

Standard (x1): Human, Human-like D-bees, Small Animals, Exo-Skeletons, and Bio-Systems
Extraordinary (x2): Med to Lrg Animals, Mutant Animals, Cybernetics, and Light PA
Augmented (x3): Bionics, Crazies, Juicers, and Med PA
Robotic (x5): Borgs w/Robotic Strength, Hvy PA, and Robots
Supernatural (x10): All Beings w/Supernatrual Strength and Giant Robots w/PS over 40.

Simply multiply the final PS by the appropriate scale modifier listed above.

Note: D-bees and Monsters w/o Supernatural PS may fall into any of the lower catergories, GM's discretion.

_PS Range_|_Damage__ __ _
__1 - 3_____ 1 SDC
__4 - 6_____ 2 SDC
__7 - 16____ 1D4 SDC
. 17 - 23____ 1D6 SDC
. 24 - 27____ 2D4 SDC
. 28 - 33____ 2D6 SDC
. 34 - 39____ 3D6 SDC
. 40 - 44____ 4D6 SDC
. 45 - 51____ 5D6 SDC
. 52 - 60____ 1D4x10 SDC
. 61 - 70____ 1D6x10 SDC
. 71 - 82____ 2D4x10 SDC
. 83 - 97____ 2D6x10 SDC
. 98 - 113___ 3D6x10 SDC
114 - 127___ 4D6x10 SDC
128 - 145___ 5D6x10 SDC
146 - 170___ 1D4 MD
171 - 198___ 1D6 MD
199 - 232___ 2D4 MD
233 - 274___ 2D6 MD
275 - 319___ 3D6 MD
320 - 357___ 4D6 MD
358 - 408___ 5D6 MD
409 - 476___ 1D4x10 MD
477 - 557___ 1D6x10 MD
558 - 650___ 2D4x10 MD
651 - 769___ 2D6x10 MD
770 - 894___ 3D6x10 MD
895 - 1000__ 4D6x10 MD


This is slightly modified from the chart I previously posted on a different thread.

The devastator would have a Unified PS of approximately 600, thus allowing him to carry 6000 lbs (3 tons) and lift 12000 lbs (6 tons). Also keep in mind that the bot has a lot of heavy armour and integrated weapons that increase weight but do not increase strength.

Conversion between systems becomes extremely easy. I personally think only Supernatural strength and strength gained through magical means needs to be converted, but for those who like to down grade tech, the same would apply.

Simply take the Rifts PS and divide by the multiplier, thus returning it to the standard PS in rifts and use the chart as normal.

Dog Boy PS of 24 Rifts: 48 Unified MD and 24 Unified SDC
Juicer PS of 33 Rifts: 99 unified MD and 33 Unified SDC
Robotic PS of 40 Rifts: 200 unified MD and 40 unified SDC
Giant Robot PS of 50: 500 unified MD and 50 Unified SDC
Supernatural PS of 60 Rifts: 600 unified MD and 60 unified SDC

Simple ain't it?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

Like the example says, you can shoot a tank all day with a .45 and not damage it. Some materials are just too strong for most weapons.

I disagree with this sentiment. Given time I could cut a tank in half using drops of water.

yes and given time the winds and water can reshape the world and your point is?!?

[KLM]

As per Shiva7's PS table:

The Samas or the GB cannot cause MD with punches - since
their listed damage is 2d6*10 SDC (PS 30 * 3 for heavy PA).
(OK, that might be 1 MD per punch... Per every second or
third punch).

Still, the Jäger can carry a 6 ton gun pod, and the Devastator
still cannot.

Adios
KLM

[Shiva7]

As per Shiva7's PS table:

The Samas or the GB cannot cause MD with punches - since
their listed damage is 2d6*10 SDC (PS 30 * 3 for heavy PA).
(OK, that might be 1 MD per punch... Per every second or
third punch).

I don't have a problem with the SAM doing less damage, but the description specifically states robotic PS, thus it could get the x5 multiplier.

Notice that PB does not have medium PA. Where as I would consider the standard samas medium, PB calls it heavy, but it then falls intot he same category aas the super samas (something I would consider heavy).

The conversion multiplier list was made quickly, I will edit, heavy PA such as Super SAM etc woudl have Robotic PS (x5)


GB has fully robotic arms, thus it could have the Robotic multiplier.

Still, the Jäger can carry a 6 ton gun pod, and the Devastator
still cannot.

Might not be able to accomodate for that, but both units are stronger using the Unified PS than they are witht he standad stats, so I don't have a problem with that. Offically, the Jeager has a robotic Ps of 40, which means it can carry 40*25 = 1000 lbs
Unified, the Jeager can carry 40*50 = 2000 lbs. Not perfect, but an improvement on a seriously flawed machine.

Thus the Unified PS might not be perfect, but the writers make it difficult when they do stupid things like what you have listed.

The creatures and machines that don't fit into the standard formula for Unified conversion can use the reverse calculation describbed for the devastator. The system is too fragmented to account for everything.

[Shiva7]

- The PS is flawed. the 150 tons Triax Devastator with its
PS 60 can lift 2700 kgs. (6000 lbs). Looks like that even
the giant rifle is heavier.

Adios
KLM

BTW, where did you get that multiplier for carrying weight?

Nevermind, I did not see the little iant robot note, thus anything that would fall into that category uses a x10 miltiplier (supernatural)

Just another exammple of PB confusing the matter.

Robotic PS of 60 on a devastator offically does 6D6 MD for a punch
Supernatural PS 60 officially does 1D6x10

Robotic PS of 60 can carry 6000 lbs
Supernatural PS 60 can carry 3000 lbs

Devastator carries 4 times more than before RUE, does damage equal to Supernatural PS. Consistancy sure is lacking.

Unified stats would be as follows...

Devastator PS 60 => 600; carry/lift 6000/12000 lbs
Supernatural PS 60 => 600...

Damage for both = 2D4x10 MD

[KLM]

RUE page 286.

Still, it is uncomfortable to know, that
the puniest gargoyle is as strong (supernatural PS 18+2d6)
as a Jäger - robotic PS 40), so when the reach into
melee range, they have a good chance to rip the
gun out of the mecha's hand and then beat it into
pulp... So, a Jäger will have to shoot, run, shoot...

Ah, nevemind....

Adios
KLM

[Shiva7]

RUE page 286.

Still, it is uncomfortable to know, that
the puniest gargoyle is as strong (supernatural PS 18+2d6)
as a Jäger - robotic PS 40), so when the reach into
melee range, they have a good chance to rip the
gun out of the mecha's hand and then beat it into
pulp... So, a Jäger will have to shoot, run, shoot...

Ah, nevemind....

Adios
KLM

How is that much different than right now. The supernatural are already twice as strong as the Jeager with a comparable PS. This isn't anything new, I have only readjusted the scales to better fit together. The supernatural are tough mutha's, they should be feared. Illustrations, fluff text and stats completely contradict each other on what things can and cannot do, it's quite chaotic.

Also, don't forget that Gargoyles are still a fair bit bigger than Jeager, unfortunately PB screwed up the stats between the Gurgoyles and Gargoyles. The PS should be equal according to PFRPG 2nd Ed., but WB 5 Triax has gurgyles with the same PS roll as PFRPG, but the Gargoyles have been reduced.

PS should be 2D6+24 (26 - 36)

Unified, the Jeager would be 200 (2000 lbs carry) and the Gurgoyles/Gargoyles would be 260 -360 (2600 - 3600 lbs carry). I don't realy see a problem, they are still pretty close for the most part: punch of 2D4 MD (Jeager) vs. 2D6 - 5D6 MD (gargoyle)

Officially, the Jeagar would be 2D6 MD vs. 3D6 - 5D6 MD (gargoyle), with carrying capacities of 1000 lbs vs. 1300 - 1800 lbs.

[Sentinel]

Like the example says, you can shoot a tank all day with a .45 and not damage it. Some materials are just too strong for most weapons.

The pistol simply does not have the PV to damage the tank.
The tanks AR is also so high that the vast majority of shots will simply bounce off.

A single SDC system cannot handle all power levels going right up to god status ina high magic environment like rifts. The numbers get too ridiculous.

Actually, this works quite well in HUII.
The Supernatural PS table is pretty much the same (just expressed in terms of SDC). Large scale weapons tend to do more dice of damage, and while e-weapons could be more damaging, they tend to do more than 1 or 2 D6 for pistols (there are many Rifts weapons that just don't seem to do enough proportionate damage to be effective, given the prevalence of MDC armour. Even if not moving, it takes all day to blow through a suit of Bushman with the average Wilks pistol because the damage is so low. In HUII, a comparable suit would be holed faster by a comparable weapon, because the dice of damage are higher for e-weapons).

AR is a completely flawed system, and though the concept ofPV is great, there is no effective way to combine it with AR save for silly illogical "for-game-balance" rules.

This would be difficult to achieve, because there will always be those who want military weapons to be the King of The Hill, while others will want their super-powered "ubermen" to be able to shrug off cannon fire like rain. You can't please everyone with the flavor of tech weaponry.
Myself, I want weapons to be appropriately scaled to each other (pistols to rifles to cannons to ship guns), but, with the understanding that magic, super-powers, etc may simply blow these things out of the water. Invulnerable characters can survive nuclear bombs: nuclear bombs do not need to be made more powerful as a consequence however.

I have never bought into the argument of the "PPE rich enviornment of Rifts" as an excuse to justify MDC magic. Magic was just fine back in PFRPG days, and it was rich enough to support gods, dragons, and the Old Ones before they were locked into slumber eternally. If the Time of a Thousand Magicks wasn't "PPE Rich", then PPE would never be "rich".

[dark brandon]

1. Does the increasing proliferation of Mega-Damage bother you?
If so, then why and to what extent?
If not, then why not?

Not really. I'll explain in answer 3.

2. Can you think of ways to challeng player characters other than pitting them against high-powered MDC enemies?

Yes and no. Yes in the sense that there are many tricks of the trade you can you. No in that, there really arn't rules for pitting them against anything other than war/battle. Like half of the "GM/Player section" is all about combat. You have pages upon pages of combat. You have maybe 1 paragraph about RPing or Social interactions/skills. The rules for contested skills doesn't take into account 1/2 the things that could happen. Like for example, for the interrogation skill "GM may give a bonus based on high ME/MA/PB" and that's all we hear of that. Of course I can tell you the exact penalty for trying to hit something that is small, moving at 50 miles per hour and behind cover.

3. Would you be interested in seeing more low-powered (SDC, high SDC, and low MDC) opponents, races, and gear in future Rifts books?

not really. The main reason is what someone (I forget who) said "You don't see people tripping over themselves begging to play cactus people". Haveing a few things that are lower-powered...ect...is cute, nice and may fit in with a few peoples style. But you don't really buy books to get "Weaker". If I'm going to run a low level campaign, the stuff from compendum of modern weapons, basic melee weapons, ect...are fine.

4. How do you picture the average human inhabitant of Rifts Earth? What sort of life do they live, and what sort of gear do they have?

They live they use to in like the 1700's and stuff. Only the monsters are actually real this time.

5. How much MDC do you see the average character as having (Armor, for SDC beings)?
How much MD do you see the average character as being able to dish out in a single attack?

The average person (Farm type person/wilderness), I honestly guess, has access in some way to MDC weapons and armor. Perhaps hand-me-downs or things he's saved up for. I do not see them actually needing to use it all that often though, so it's usually put up. They wouldn't use it to shoot a bear, but they would use it to scare off intruders or the like. I see the average city person as possibly gaining access to MDC weapons/armor. But the average city person does not own either.

The amound ot MDC in a single attack I generally range from 1D4 - 3D6 seems to be the average.

[devillin]

- The PS is flawed. the 150 tons Triax Devastator with its
PS 60 can lift 2700 kgs. (6000 lbs). Looks like that even
the giant rifle is heavier.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a ruling that anything can lift its own weight to get up off the ground, and that the strength rating is just for carrying things that aren't a part of the object?

[JTwig]

One of these days im going to just turn all MDC stuff to SDC.

Every thing should work fine, with just a bit of work.

I have an easy little formula that has been play tested, and seems to work rather well. If your interested PM me.

[Shiva7]

You still have to sell me on why MDC is necessary rather than just SDC. Why do you need 2 scales when 1 will do just fine? All the game functions in RIFTS are accomplished in SDC games that don't experience the kinds of bizarre quirks that RIFTS does.

A single SDC system cannot handle all power levels going right up to god status ina high magic environment like rifts. The numbers get too ridiculous.

Heros Unlimited 2. End of story.

The SDC system has many draw backs and lacks any rules for weapons more powerful than a HMG and the whole x300/x500 carry lift is ridiculus.

I's better than PFRPG/BTS/TMNT first editions, but has a long way to go.

The penetration rules are a joke.