Robots and A.I.'s; how to NOT be Data (tm)

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:04 pm

Another topic from your friendly neighbourhood Dark Angel.
As poeple may have become aware of in sci-fi popular media; Artifical Intelligences have become quite de-rigeur. Problem is; too many still fall back on the 'Robby the Robot' cliche. Case in point "Star Drek" er TREK the next Generation with Data. Great actor, hated the character. For a superior neural data cortex, he was remarkably stupid for an android.
Again with ST:Voyager with the doctor at the begining of the series. No 'vibe' or personality (well, some...).
Good examples of how NOT to have your AI's suck;
Romie from 'Andromeda', and Kos-Mos from 'Xenosaga'
Even being synthtic, those androids have enough 'soul', that the audience cares about what happens with / to them.
What other A.I's can you my readers, think of that don't suck like Data?

cornholioprime · Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:10 pm

Uhhh..... The love-slave Droid from "Lexx," that fell in love with a different plant/animal/mineral/undead every few weeks??????

glitterboy2098 · Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:55 pm

Case in point "Star Drek" er TREK the next Generation with Data. Great actor, hated the character. For a superior neural data cortex, he was remarkably stupid for an android

Data was supposed to be flawed. the idea was while you could program a computer to think, you couldn't program it to be human, it had to learn. just like children have to learn how to behave and live in society. Data had all the Knowledge he needed, he just didn't know how to interpret it.

Again with ST:Voyager with the doctor at the begining of the series. No 'vibe' or personality (well, some...).

i'll give you that one. though in later seasons the doctor developed into a decent character. again, it was the "child effect" where they had to learn.

Romie from 'Andromeda'

first season was OK, later ones made her TOO human.

what about the guys from the Alien/Aliens series (Ash) ? I don't know too much about the background on those.

the Cyberdyne Androids? like Bishop? those were cool, but they were less robots and more Bioroid. (japanese anime term. organic androids.)
so they had the advantage of having human(like) brains to work with.
then again, the one from Ressurection was rather TOO human,i like my androids with at least one or two quirks that imply their not human (hardware doesn't count, given cyber stuff.)

for an interesting Android character, take a look at Ping from the Megatokyo Webcomic. it's making fun of japanese robot girl anime and manga, but the character has a real depth of personality.
you have to read the archives to get the feel for the character though.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:16 pm

HK-47 from KOTOR.
THAT is a droid with personality...

And any droid that looks as hot as Romy from Andromeda or Wynona Rider from Alien Resurrection would work, also.

cornholioprime · Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:54 pm

Vrykolas2k wrote:HK-47 from KOTOR.
THAT is a droid with personality...
And any droid that looks as hot as Romy from Andromeda or Wynona Rider from Alien Resurrection would work, also.

Like Megas XLR says, "Chicks...DIG ....Giant Robots!!!"

But Guys dig Sexy ones. :oops:

Syndicate · Unread post by **Syndicate** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:59 pm

Archie III from the 1st source book.

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:37 pm

T-1000 from T3

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:09 pm

Gideon wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned the replicants from Blade Runner

I can, people have no apprecitation for the classics these days...

"Chu, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes..."

I liked the book better... but the skin-jobs in the movie were pretty cool... :-P

glitterboy2098 · Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:41 pm

on the subject of AI Robots...

cornholioprime · Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:50 pm

MasterDragon wrote:ill agree with Romie, she kicks ass ^_^

um how bout the ones From terminator, T1000 was made to mimik humans(infiltration unit style)

then for anime, Dragonball-Dragonball Z the androids, alot of them were very human, as a matter of fact in DBZ Android 18 has a daughter(who is human) wich was deemed impossible since she was robotic

Not really. Before DBZ, there was Naomi Armitage, another Android who could combine DNA with her own body structure to create life........

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:57 am

Gideon wrote:
I can't believe no one has mentioned the replicants from Blade Runner

I can, people have no apprecitation for the classics these days...

"Chu, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes..."

Actually THOSE AREN'T ROBOTS!

They're clones that only live four years and yet we can't seem to amake them live linger even though that's completely unrealistic.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:54 am

Misfit KotLD wrote: They are engineered that way. What couldn't be done is engineering that trait out of them.

THEY STILL AREN'T FRIKKEN ROBOTS!!!

THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ANY FIKKEN REASON TO FRIKKEN DREAM OF FRIKKEN ELECTRIC SHEEP!!!!

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:15 pm

hmmm the replicants sound like the Sims from Manhunter.

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:12 pm

eh whatever my point was made that's enough

Killer Cyborg · Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:09 pm

Kryton from Red Dwarf.

Inazuma · Unread post by **Inazuma** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:32 am

Pardon my interruption, but...
Going back to the Boomers (the robots from Bubblegum Crisis/Crash,) they're actually fairly similar to humans in terms of personality, depending on the model. For example, the 33-S Sexaroids (I'm not making that up, I swear!) are not only easily on par with humans in terms of personality, they even have artificial blood and internal organs. Unless you were to dissect one, you'd never know it was an android. Sexaroids are, arguably, the most human-like of all the boomers, having a full range of feelings and emotions. In many ways, they're almost true lifeforms.

Not all boomers are combat-oriented, either. Aside from the 33-S, there are numerous boomer designs, ranging from simple construction androids, to maids, to deep-sea exploration 'droids. (There's even a Boomer minesweeper. Okay, so it's about as smart as a steamroller, but still...)

I'll leave you all with a thought: what is the difference between a living being and an advanced android? If an android (or robot, or mecha, or whatever) had all of the features and capabilities that a living being had, what would separate it from its "living" counterpart? Indeed, are humans not simply "organic androids?"

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:18 pm

Misfit KotLD wrote:Also keep in mind Machine People fit the definition for alive because they grow and reproduce, androids do not.

Ah, but if an android were sophisticated enough to reproduce, and its offspring grew and reproduced...

Killer Cyborg · Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:02 pm

Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:Also keep in mind Machine People fit the definition for alive because they grow and reproduce, androids do not.

Ah, but if an android were sophisticated enough to reproduce, and its offspring grew and reproduced...

Then by that definition, alive.

Nope.
You need cells to be alive.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:31 pm

by the doctrine that life MUST follow the laws of biology and that entities not biological in nature can't be considered alive... which is of course why machine people are bots, not folk...

Inazuma · Unread post by **Inazuma** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:15 am

Off-topic again...

So, Svartalf, does that mean that ANY life that isn't composed of cells isn't alive? How about creatures not composed of carbon? (I'd love to see a biologist's reaction to a helium-based lifeform.)

I'm sorry, but I'm so tired of science declaring that anything that doesn't fit its definition of reality automatically must be either incorrect, or a fluke. We seem to think that, because we've been around for a mere 10,000 years and have seen the tiniest sliver of the universe, we must know everything when, in truth, we barely know anything. (Sorry, I'm not trying to flame or gripe at anyone on the forum. I'm just venting.)

Dairugger, I think you're referring to viruses, but I could be wrong.

Lastly, androids are technically robots that are humanoid in shape (i.e. Data vs. an artificial spider.) In truth, the name has nothing to do with intelligence (the ASIMO bot is an android, but it's a LONG way from being sentient.)

We now return you to the intended topic, already in progress...

In answer to an earlier question, no, there aren't any robots per se in Cowboy Bebop, but there is a weather/spy satellite that was kinda sentient.

Oh, and how about the girl android from Metropolis? (Both the anime and the silent movie.)

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:46 am

Actually, Inazuma, I was being sarcastic and am not ready to seriously play devil's advocate on that case.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:04 pm

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:Also keep in mind Machine People fit the definition for alive because they grow and reproduce, androids do not.

Ah, but if an android were sophisticated enough to reproduce, and its offspring grew and reproduced...

Then by that definition, alive.

Nope.
You need cells to be alive.

The the persons in Rifts who are transferred intelligences, have psionics, and 1 PPE are no longer alive?

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:30 pm

Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:The the persons in Rifts who are transferred intelligences, have psionics, and 1 PPE are no longer alive?

Let's not confuse Kevin's publications with science here.

Since when were we discussing actual hard science...?

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:30 pm

Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:The the persons in Rifts who are transferred intelligences, have psionics, and 1 PPE are no longer alive?

Let's not confuse Kevin's publications with science here.

Since when were we discussing actual hard science...?

When I mentioned the actual listed requirements for life.

This, however, is a game discussion...

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:55 pm

Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:The the persons in Rifts who are transferred intelligences, have psionics, and 1 PPE are no longer alive?

Let's not confuse Kevin's publications with science here.

Since when were we discussing actual hard science...?

When I mentioned the actual listed requirements for life.

This, however, is a game discussion...

Making Kevin's eternally inconsistent word gospel.

Exactly!!! :lol:

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