Some Random Questions From a New GM

[Kain_The_Spaniard]

Hi all, I'm a relatively new GM and also kinda new to Ultimate Edition. I had a couple questions that I was hoping to get some clarity since all of us in my group, both new and old players, are using RUE as our "go to" rule book.

My players are asking for clarification on a few rules and are hoping to be guided to books/page numbers. So, while I appreciate any and all input, and while I can explain my thoughts as a GM to my players... what I'm really after is where to look and/or point them to in the books. i.e. "official" stuff. So, here goes...

#1 Shooting an enemy who is engage in Hand to Hand combat with an ally. In my years as a player under the original rulebook, we never did that, for "safety/common sense reasons"... but that was ages ago and could of been a house rule for all I remember. Now as a GM, I don't know where that is covered in the books. I have some "sniper" type PCs who are asking.

#2 Techno Wizard PPE Construction costs. Some items can have PPE constructions costs in the Hundreds. From what I've read (and been told by concerned players), a player who starts with a base PPE in the low 100's and adds 2D6 PPE per lvl may never reach the required amount PPE to create desired items... even "typical" items listed for sale in the World Books. Are we missing something? Since construction is meant to be done over time, does that mean PPE can be expended, recovered, and then expended again to continue the construction process? Or does a character have to poses the total required amount of PPE "on hand" in order to begin construction?

#3 Ranged Combat Special Attacks. A player who has 4 APM wants to do a "Aimed Shot" or "Aimed Called Shot" as his LAST attack. Being that he only has 1 "attack" left in the round and those take up 2 or 3 "attacks" can the player simply not perform a special shot late into the combat round? Or would that attack carry over and "go off" later into the following round. If the special attack carries over into the next round, how do you take the new initiative rolls into account?

Thanks in advance everyone, I hope I explained the questions clearly and they weren't too lengthy.

Happy Gaming,
Kain

[ShadowLogan]

#1. I don't think it's ever covered in the rules. However, it likely would require a Called &/or Aimed Shot at minimum. Some movement penalties might also be appropriate.

#2. I do not think it's ever addressed. I take the view that it is spread out though, with the PPE even distributed. You could do it all at once and just have a source of PPE to tap (like a Ley Line)

#3. Given you can bank attacks for dodges into the next round (off the top), I do not see why you could not bank attacks for offensive actions that long. When the attack actually occurs would be up to the GM, it could come off instantly and remaining attacks are banked as if they dodged, or it goes off at the end of the # of required actions. It really depends on how you want to play multiple-actions in playing out (effect-downtime or windup-effect). I think though the rules go more for the windup-effect.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Hi all, I'm a relatively new GM and also kinda new to Ultimate Edition. I had a couple questions that I was hoping to get some clarity since all of us in my group, both new and old players, are using RUE as our "go to" rule book.

My players are asking for clarification on a few rules and are hoping to be guided to books/page numbers. So, while I appreciate any and all input, and while I can explain my thoughts as a GM to my players... what I'm really after is where to look and/or point them to in the books. i.e. "official" stuff. So, here goes...

#1 Shooting an enemy who is engage in Hand to Hand combat with an ally. In my years as a player under the original rulebook, we never did that, for "safety/common sense reasons"... but that was ages ago and could of been a house rule for all I remember. Now as a GM, I don't know where that is covered in the books. I have some "sniper" type PCs who are asking.

There are no penalties for shooting into melee. for that matter there are no penalties for shooting into a grapple. it's pretty much expected that PC's will help someone engaged in hand to hand by flanking and shooting them in the sides and back. There are no penalties or risks to doing so in the books. "Common sense" houserules are of course possible. but honeslty I perfer the more cinematic feel of a mashup, especially because so many specalized PC's are melee types instead of gun based.

#2 Techno Wizard PPE Construction costs. Some items can have PPE constructions costs in the Hundreds. From what I've read (and been told by concerned players), a player who starts with a base PPE in the low 100's and adds 2D6 PPE per lvl may never reach the required amount PPE to create desired items... even "typical" items listed for sale in the World Books. Are we missing something? Since construction is meant to be done over time, does that mean PPE can be expended, recovered, and then expended again to continue the construction process? Or does a character have to poses the total required amount of PPE "on hand" in order to begin construction?

Construction costs can be lowered by using more than the minimum required number of gems remember.

#3 Ranged Combat Special Attacks. A player who has 4 APM wants to do a "Aimed Shot" or "Aimed Called Shot" as his LAST attack. Being that he only has 1 "attack" left in the round and those take up 2 or 3 "attacks" can the player simply not perform a special shot late into the combat round? Or would that attack carry over and "go off" later into the following round. If the special attack carries over into the next round, how do you take the new initiative rolls into account?

Thanks in advance everyone, I hope I explained the questions clearly and they weren't too lengthy.

Happy Gaming,
Kain

Only dodges can "Carry Over". If you only have 1 attack left, you cannot make an aimed or called shot, period.

[drewkitty ~..~]

2: The PPE cost is the Total cost needed to enchant the item. But the PPE cost can be spread over several days if they TW only work on the magic item for as much PPE that they can spend each day.

[Tinker Dragoon]

#2 Techno Wizard PPE Construction costs. Some items can have PPE constructions costs in the Hundreds. From what I've read (and been told by concerned players), a player who starts with a base PPE in the low 100's and adds 2D6 PPE per lvl may never reach the required amount PPE to create desired items... even "typical" items listed for sale in the World Books. Are we missing something? Since construction is meant to be done over time, does that mean PPE can be expended, recovered, and then expended again to continue the construction process? Or does a character have to poses the total required amount of PPE "on hand" in order to begin construction?

Given the time required to construct many TW devices, it makes sense that the P.P.E. expenditure would be spread out over the course of the construction. Additionally, Techno-Wizards are able to draw P.P.E. from Ley Lines, people, and P.P.E. batteries just like any other mage.

[Kain_The_Spaniard]

Hi guys! So far you're all pretty much confirming what I have been thinking/saying so far. I really appreciate the help so far, and also any input to come!

[eliakon]

The PPE thing is....variable.
Some GMs let you spread it out over time, some make you have a sufficient supply of PPE to do it all at one go. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

-Spreading it out over time allows for the player to make some of the bigger items and thus adds to their utility in the group
On the downside it can also encourage people to make devices with monstrous PPE costs and then just amortize that over time into manageable chunks allowing a single person to make some incredibly powerful devices.

-Doing it all at once has the benefit of making the largest items need planning, forethought, and preparation....just like rituals and spells of legend and the like. But they have the down side of making it hard for the player to make items themselves and tends to encourage 'gem abuse' where they over build the gems by a massive amount to bring the PPE cost down to where they can make it, which while with in the letter of the rules often violates the spirit of the rules.

[boxee]

I would say over time, so yes you can make the expensive items if you have the required gems and tools.

The most important thing to remember is to have fun.

[Blue_Lion]

The tw PPE cost could also be a limiting factor. If that is the case then you would need all the PPE at once (that was the way the old tw enchants worked they where not constructed with time but PPE.) There are several ways to get more PPE than your base for a spell or enchantment such as ley lines(some special times give bonuses), PPE batteries, even other living things(constructing a TW device is the TW equivalent of a ritual). When I play a TW finding a way to get the PPE is a big part of how I construct items. If the ppe cost was not paid all at once it can become pointless as a TW could take his time during the down time between mission to make item with a cost in 10 of thousands.

[eliakon]

The tw PPE cost could also be a limiting factor. If that is the case then you would need all the PPE at once (that was the way the old tw enchants worked they where not constructed with time but PPE.) There are several ways to get more PPE than your base for a spell or enchantment such as ley lines(some special times give bonuses), PPE batteries, even other living things(constructing a TW device is the TW equivalent of a ritual). When I play a TW finding a way to get the PPE is a big part of how I construct items. If the ppe cost was not paid all at once it can become pointless as a TW could take his time during the down time between mission to make item with a cost in 10 of thousands.

^this^
I used to waffle on time or burst.....and then I had a player submit an item for approval that had a PPE cost of just under two million PPE....with the argument that since they were based on a ley line they could tap that while they worked......and make the device in six months....
Since then I have been a strict "PPE cost is a finalized activation cost and is paid in one lump sum at the end to 'initialize' the device" GM

[Tor]

Without penalties to hit guys in HtH with your friends, I'm picturing some weird mess of people ignoring monsters trying to bite their own heads off so they can circle behind monsters biting trying to bite their friends' heads off to shoot them in the back instead.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Without penalties to hit guys in HtH with your friends, I'm picturing some weird mess of people ignoring monsters trying to bite their own heads off so they can circle behind monsters biting trying to bite their friends' heads off to shoot them in the back instead.

as long as the monster dosn't have you in a hold or entanglement, there really is nothing stopping you from ignoring the monster in front of you and moving around to attack someone else. there are no rules anywhere for blocking someone else's movement other than to attempt a body block/tackle, entangle, or hold, and if it's not your turn you can't try any of them. not even as a simul, since they are not attacking you.

[Blue_Lion]

Without penalties to hit guys in HtH with your friends, I'm picturing some weird mess of people ignoring monsters trying to bite their own heads off so they can circle behind monsters biting trying to bite their friends' heads off to shoot them in the back instead.

as long as the monster dosn't have you in a hold or entanglement, there really is nothing stopping you from ignoring the monster in front of you and moving around to attack someone else. there are no rules anywhere for blocking someone else's movement other than to attempt a body block/tackle, entangle, or hold, and if it's not your turn you can't try any of them. not even as a simul, since they are not attacking you.

On a few occasions I have had monsters with supernatural PS to grab players lift them off the ground and use them as a shield. Note the I might let the grabbed player attack the person holding him off the ground as he is not being pined as much as lifted. (GBs hate this tactic because it makes them have to not shoot their boom gun unless they want to kill their friend.)

[Nekira Sudacne]

Without penalties to hit guys in HtH with your friends, I'm picturing some weird mess of people ignoring monsters trying to bite their own heads off so they can circle behind monsters biting trying to bite their friends' heads off to shoot them in the back instead.

as long as the monster dosn't have you in a hold or entanglement, there really is nothing stopping you from ignoring the monster in front of you and moving around to attack someone else. there are no rules anywhere for blocking someone else's movement other than to attempt a body block/tackle, entangle, or hold, and if it's not your turn you can't try any of them. not even as a simul, since they are not attacking you.

On a few occasions I have had monsters with supernatural PS to grab players lift them off the ground and use them as a shield. Note the I might let the grabbed player attack the person holding him off the ground as he is not being pined as much as lifted. (GBs hate this tactic because it makes them have to not shoot their boom gun unless they want to kill their friend.)

That works! but they still have to make a successful attack roll to grab them

[PSI-Lence]

The tw PPE cost could also be a limiting factor. If that is the case then you would need all the PPE at once (that was the way the old tw enchants worked they where not constructed with time but PPE.) There are several ways to get more PPE than your base for a spell or enchantment such as ley lines(some special times give bonuses), PPE batteries, even other living things(constructing a TW device is the TW equivalent of a ritual). When I play a TW finding a way to get the PPE is a big part of how I construct items. If the ppe cost was not paid all at once it can become pointless as a TW could take his time during the down time between mission to make item with a cost in 10 of thousands.

^this^
I used to waffle on time or burst.....and then I had a player submit an item for approval that had a PPE cost of just under two million PPE....with the argument that since they were based on a ley line they could tap that while they worked......and make the device in six months....
Since then I have been a strict "PPE cost is a finalized activation cost and is paid in one lump sum at the end to 'initialize' the device" GM

how would someone come up with something that cost 2 million ppe? even a multiple enchantment thing could be broken down to one spell at a time, and size limit to the object limiting how many spells can be used on it

but perhaps split the difference? say 10% of the total PPE cost needed has to be pumped into it every day if less that 10% is pumped into it all the PPE is dispersed and needs to start over
on top of the daily requirement of PPE it can bleed off 5%of the PPE per day (so it would increase the PPE cost to do it over time but still allow the freedom to create an object the TW does not have the base PPE for all at once)



for shooting someone in HtH with another person i would give a penalty to hit based on the situation if the shot misses treat it as a wild shot with an increased chance to hit the other person

for a ranged special i'd let them set up the attack first to fire on their first attack next round

but i don't know of where any canon rules for that are lol

[eliakon]

The tw PPE cost could also be a limiting factor. If that is the case then you would need all the PPE at once (that was the way the old tw enchants worked they where not constructed with time but PPE.) There are several ways to get more PPE than your base for a spell or enchantment such as ley lines(some special times give bonuses), PPE batteries, even other living things(constructing a TW device is the TW equivalent of a ritual). When I play a TW finding a way to get the PPE is a big part of how I construct items. If the ppe cost was not paid all at once it can become pointless as a TW could take his time during the down time between mission to make item with a cost in 10 of thousands.

^this^
I used to waffle on time or burst.....and then I had a player submit an item for approval that had a PPE cost of just under two million PPE....with the argument that since they were based on a ley line they could tap that while they worked......and make the device in six months....
Since then I have been a strict "PPE cost is a finalized activation cost and is paid in one lump sum at the end to 'initialize' the device" GM

how would someone come up with something that cost 2 million ppe? even a multiple enchantment thing could be broken down to one spell at a time, and size limit to the object limiting how many spells can be used on it

but perhaps split the difference? say 10% of the total PPE cost needed has to be pumped into it every day if less that 10% is pumped into it all the PPE is dispersed and needs to start over
on top of the daily requirement of PPE it can bleed off 5%of the PPE per day (so it would increase the PPE cost to do it over time but still allow the freedom to create an object the TW does not have the base PPE for all at once)

I found that the 'burst cost' wasn't really that much of a limit.
The average PC has around 1-200 PPE available which is enough right there to make some decent toys
On a ley line they have 3-600 which can make some even better stuff.
And this is just one person. If there is a group to aid in the ritual the PPE goes up, quickly. And the biggest problem with the 'slow but steady' method is that it makes it so that the GM has to start explaining why the NPCs are not making big stuff all the time.....

[Slight001]

And the biggest problem with the 'slow but steady' method is that it makes it so that the GM has to start explaining why the NPCs are not making big stuff all the time.....

You should have that problem with both 'options/methods' as you yourself just demonstrated it's not that hard to accumulate large volumes of P.P.E..

[eliakon]

And the biggest problem with the 'slow but steady' method is that it makes it so that the GM has to start explaining why the NPCs are not making big stuff all the time.....

You should have that problem with both 'options/methods' as you yourself just demonstrated it's not that hard to accumulate large volumes of P.P.E..

True...but it is a bit harder to get the super high numbers.
a few hundred is easy, a couple thousand can be done with some prep.
But if you want a device that costs tens of thousands or more your going to have to really do some work for it.
(and no one can just make insanely large devices that have ludicrous PPE costs by amortizing the PPE cost)

[PSI-Lence]

And the biggest problem with the 'slow but steady' method is that it makes it so that the GM has to start explaining why the NPCs are not making big stuff all the time.....

You should have that problem with both 'options/methods' as you yourself just demonstrated it's not that hard to accumulate large volumes of P.P.E..

True...but it is a bit harder to get the super high numbers.
a few hundred is easy, a couple thousand can be done with some prep.
But if you want a device that costs tens of thousands or more your going to have to really do some work for it.
(and no one can just make insanely large devices that have ludicrous PPE costs by amortizing the PPE cost)

i'm still wondering what you'd have that people were making that required 2 million ppe?
draining their ppe should be enough of a reason a spell user would not want to do anything so large very often with the chance they could be caught off guard and drained of ppe

[Blue_Lion]

well you would need a spell chain of around 200,000 so is likely a chain involving multiple high level spells possibly spells of legend. If pressed I could probably design a war machine or major city system with a requirement that high.