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Ok, this is a copy of my post over in the Chaos Earth section on Tor's BtS > CE > Rifts thread:

"Here's another thought: What if it's BtS > CE > Rifts > Splicers???
Heroes of Humanity is due to come out. Since the Coalition Always wins, is it possible that they eventually defeat the Rifts like the Seljuk's (Phase World) did? Wiping out all the magic and only humanity survives. Many, many generations later, the humans create the Machine and then come the Splicers. This alternate reality could actually explain some of the alien DNA that is used for the Splicers. Also, explains why there is no magic, psionics or Rift activity in the setting. Just some odd food for thought. "

I started a new one here because I couldn't figure out how to link properly and it could be discussed here without totally derailing his thread.

A very twisted, evil, horrible thought. What do you think?

The most glaring flaw in this reasoning (though not the only flaw)...

Who says the Coalition always wins? They have had their fair share of defeats and their position in North America really isn't as secure as they make it out to be.

Razorwing wrote:The most glaring flaw in this reasoning (though not the only flaw)...

Who says the Coalition always wins? They have had their fair share of defeats and their position in North America really isn't as secure as they make it out to be.

Coalition Officer walks into room.
"Razorwing, you are under arrest, charged with treason, arson, assault, and various other charges stated in the docket. You will be held in custody and re-educated to better serve the Coalition State.".
Moves to handcuff you..........

Razorwing wrote:The most glaring flaw in this reasoning (though not the only flaw)...

Who says the Coalition always wins? They have had their fair share of defeats and their position in North America really isn't as secure as they make it out to be.

Come on.... we all know Siembieda is only his adopted name. He's really a Prosek!!!!! The Coalition will never fall.

The Sorcerer's Revenge showed that not only could they be defeated, they could be annihilated.

True, they did recover from that... but mostly because many in Tolkeen had thought they had already won the war. Had Tolkeen pressed its advantage rather than engage in senseless slaughter... well, they might have been able to force at least a stalemate with the Coalition.

Razorwing wrote:The Sorcerer's Revenge showed that not only could they be defeated, they could be annihilated.

True, they did recover from that... but mostly because many in Tolkeen had thought they had already won the war. Had Tolkeen pressed its advantage rather than engage in senseless slaughter... well, they might have been able to force at least a stalemate with the Coalition.

they didn't get annihilated. most of their losses turned out to be not losses.

Razorwing wrote:The Sorcerer's Revenge showed that not only could they be defeated, they could be annihilated.

True, they did recover from that... but mostly because many in Tolkeen had thought they had already won the war. Had Tolkeen pressed its advantage rather than engage in senseless slaughter... well, they might have been able to force at least a stalemate with the Coalition.

Where I'm going with the whole "Coalition can't loose" thing is that the Coalition is, was and likely always will be the major plot devise for Rifts. Because of that storytelling hook, the Coalition will never fall. As the timeline in Rifts has advanced, the Coalition just keeps getting stronger even if they shouldn't. Personally, I think that the magic using communities woulda/coulda/shoulda taken out the CS long ago. But that's not the plot, so it won't happen.

I think Tolkeen was poorly done and did not follow the spirit of the game world.

Wow good job derailing the thread guys.

So, assuming the CS does learn to control the flow of magic through technological means and basically kill the Earth... Yeah I could see them building the machine. What is your point? Are you just trying to develop a back story or are you working an angle? The major issue I'd have is that the nanite plague wouldn't work to well on the CS as their equipment by and large has plastic, ceramic or other non-metallic composite for their casing. Of course that may be entirely my imagination and not corroborated anywhere.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Wow good job derailing the thread guys.

So, assuming the CS does learn to control the flow of magic through technological means and basically kill the Earth... Yeah I could see them building the machine. What is your point? Are you just trying to develop a back story or are you working an angle? The major issue I'd have is that the nanite plague wouldn't work to well on the CS as their equipment by and large has plastic, ceramic or other non-metallic composite for their casing. Of course that may be entirely my imagination and not corroborated anywhere.

I don't think I was really going anywhere with this. I saw and read the thread that Tor started over in CE and it got me thinking if Splicers could be connected too. There are no sourcebooks for splicers to list/detail the alien DNA creatures and we're told we can use stuff from Rifts, I thought it might be amusing to ponder the "what if...". However, since the people of Splicers don't know, it really doesn't matter.

RiftJunkie wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Wow good job derailing the thread guys.

So, assuming the CS does learn to control the flow of magic through technological means and basically kill the Earth... Yeah I could see them building the machine. What is your point? Are you just trying to develop a back story or are you working an angle? The major issue I'd have is that the nanite plague wouldn't work to well on the CS as their equipment by and large has plastic, ceramic or other non-metallic composite for their casing. Of course that may be entirely my imagination and not corroborated anywhere.

I don't think I was really going anywhere with this. I saw and read the thread that Tor started over in CE and it got me thinking if Splicers could be connected too. There are no sourcebooks for splicers to list/detail the alien DNA creatures and we're told we can use stuff from Rifts, I thought it might be amusing to ponder the "what if...". However, since the people of Splicers don't know, it really doesn't matter.

That is interesting, but now that goes counter to the Splycers fluff as the aliens were brought back by colonist not. Then again that could be in game incorrect information.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

RiftJunkie wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Wow good job derailing the thread guys.

So, assuming the CS does learn to control the flow of magic through technological means and basically kill the Earth... Yeah I could see them building the machine. What is your point? Are you just trying to develop a back story or are you working an angle? The major issue I'd have is that the nanite plague wouldn't work to well on the CS as their equipment by and large has plastic, ceramic or other non-metallic composite for their casing. Of course that may be entirely my imagination and not corroborated anywhere.

I don't think I was really going anywhere with this. I saw and read the thread that Tor started over in CE and it got me thinking if Splicers could be connected too. There are no sourcebooks for splicers to list/detail the alien DNA creatures and we're told we can use stuff from Rifts, I thought it might be amusing to ponder the "what if...". However, since the people of Splicers don't know, it really doesn't matter.

That is interesting, but now that goes counter to the Splycers fluff as the aliens were brought back by colonist not. Then again that could be in game incorrect information.

Well, the CS rewrites it's own history on a daily basis and the Splicers don't even know for sure what freekin planet they are on. There's an awful lot of leeway here.

There is also one glaring problem with Splicer Earth being the future of Rifts Earth... Psionics.

On Rifts Earth, Psionics are not only possible... they are fact (as in exist). The shear volume of psychics (given the relatively low number of humans) means that at the very least, it has to be a dormant gene in the vast majority of the population.

However, on Splicers "Earth" (we really don't even know if it is Earth by the way), psionics are not only NOT present... they are not even possible in any shape or form. The human population has 0% chance of developing Psychic ability. A few Librarians have even hypothesized that the human form has not "Evolved" to the point where it is even a slight possibility. A few have considered trying to "evolve" a new line of humanity where such an ability might be possible (in theory at least), but as it stands, the humans of Splicers can never achieve such power on their own.

So, how does one explain how a population of humans can go from a population where a large percentage has the "potential" for such abilities to one where there is no chance of it being even remotely possible? If a single ancestor of humanity can end up giving billions of people world wide blue eyes, how can a wide spread trait like psionics be completely eliminated without the extinction of the entire species? True, the Coalition does treat known psychics as second class citizens for the most part (and even has those with known powers marked), but how many people have the gene that provides these abilities yet don't have powers of their own that go virtually undetected? If it is a recessive gene and those that have at least the status of Minor Psychic... then the gene has to be very widely spread in the population to account for the number of individuals with such powers... so wide spread that the only way to completely eliminate it from the human genome would likely result in the extinction of the species.

Look at how many people world wide have Blue eyes... now consider how many more people have the gene that could give their descendants blue eyes yet don't have blue eyes themselves. How many people would have to be eliminated from our population of 7 billion to make it so that absolutely no one will ever have blue eyes ever again? Not only would you have to eliminate everyone with blue eyes, but also everyone with the potential to pass it on but don't have blue eyes themselves. We are talking billions of people in our world. Rifts has a much smaller human population and the Psychic gene is almost as spread out there as blue eyes likely is (not that there is any correlation between the two). With the much smaller population, it would be much harder to eliminate (especially since it gives those with the ability a better chance of survival and thus procreation) without decimating the species to the point where it can't recover.

With our population of billions, it is at least theoretically possible to reduce the chance of blue eyes to absolute zero and still have enough of a population for the species to survive... not so much with Rifts (at least not without them reaching a much higher population to begin with... which means the trait will be spread out even more).

Not sure that is true, in the splicers book it mentions psionics as being in a future book. So they could be there just not given in the ONLY book in the setting.

boxee wrote:Not sure that is true, in the splicers book it mentions psionics as being in a future book. So they could be there just not given in the ONLY book in the setting.

Any psionics that will appear in Splicers in future boks will be DRASTICALLY different than anything seen in any Palladium books game to date.

In regards to psionics: I looked at it like when Atlantis disappeared, it took all (or almost) of the magic energy of the Earth. ISP is described as being connected to PPE. We had no (or almost no) magic or psionics after the fall of Atlantis, so why couldn't that work if they (CS or otherwise) came up with a way to shut down the Rifts like the Seljuk did in the Phase World setting?

In any case, I was merely pondering a "What if...." It was never intended to change everyone's games.

The Galactus Kid wrote:

boxee wrote:Not sure that is true, in the splicers book it mentions psionics as being in a future book. So they could be there just not given in the ONLY book in the setting.

Any psionics that will appear in Splicers in future boks will be DRASTICALLY different than anything seen in any Palladium books game to date.

Would like to see it.

boxee wrote: Would like to see it.

It's on the list.