New vs. Old Robotech Books?

[MidnightBlue]

Long time fan (25+ years), first time caller...err...poster.

I got into Robotech...and then the rest of Palladium's books...back in grade school and Jr. high.

I have all of the Palladium Robotech RPG books from the very first Macross book and up to the Shadow Chronicles digest-sized book.

Now I see that there are new books for Macross, Southern Cross and Invid Invasion.

First question...are these really new books or reprints of the books that are already on my shelves (and loved)?

If these aren't just reprints, can anyone clue me into how much and what exactly has changed in them?

Thanks for any help the community can provide.

[wyrmraker]

As a fellow long time fan, I also have all of the original books.
The new books are a complete revamp of the original material, with more dedication and observance of the original source material. I strongly recommend the new books to any fan of the Robotech RPG.

[Seto Kaiba]

Pretty much all of the fluff was rewritten to conform more closely to the recently established official canon for Robotech, and the stats were redone using the OSM and official Robotech stats. It's pretty much a whole new game... it has little in common with 1st Edition except for some of the art and the basic Palladium game system. The Palladium-created mecha were removed entirely, and replaced by a handful of new designs from the Shadow Chronicles story arc, designs "inspired" by the OSM like the VEF-1 and the Super Cyclone, and soon there'll also be designs borrowed from OSM concept art added as well.

[Alpha 11]

Some things I like, some things I don't. My biggest beef is the cyclone HtH and running speeds and to the lesser extent, the new Veritech HtH/attacks per mili round. Also I don't like some of Ikazuchi changes. Though some that I do like are the Beta guns ( They got them in this time! ) and the Alpha "coloring", like blue being the squadran commander, and green being everyone else. Green discription in the 1st edition never made a lot of sence to me.

[MidnightBlue]

Ahhh...so crunch and fluff changes in the books then.

Thanks all...guess I need to add them to my list as well.

So many great games and hobbies...so little time and money to spread to all of them...

The news of a minis game to go along with this great property has rekindled my interest in one of the first RPG's that I purchased for myself (after TSR's Marvel Superheroes).

I just hope we can get them assembled and prepainted. I know I'm possibly in the minority, but I'm a gamer, not a hobbyist (I probably made that word up). I like playing, not building/painting. [As my collection of 200+ Warmachine/Hordes minis can attest to...only seven of them painted by yours truly...many still unpainted.]

[Alpha 11]

Ahhh...so crunch and fluff changes in the books then.

Thanks all...guess I need to add them to my list as well.

So many great games and hobbies...so little time and money to spread to all of them...

The news of a minis game to go along with this great property has rekindled my interest in one of the first RPG's that I purchased for myself (after TSR's Marvel Superheroes).

I just hope we can get them assembled and prepainted. I know I'm possibly in the minority, but I'm a gamer, not a hobbyist (I probably made that word up). I like playing, not building/painting. [As my collection of 200+ Warmachine/Hordes minis can attest to...only seven of them painted by yours truly...many still unpainted.]

I'm the same. Will love to collect them and hope there is little to no building or painting involved.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Ahhh...so crunch and fluff changes in the books then.

Thanks all...guess I need to add them to my list as well.

So many great games and hobbies...so little time and money to spread to all of them...

The news of a minis game to go along with this great property has rekindled my interest in one of the first RPG's that I purchased for myself (after TSR's Marvel Superheroes).

I just hope we can get them assembled and prepainted. I know I'm possibly in the minority, but I'm a gamer, not a hobbyist (I probably made that word up). I like playing, not building/painting. [As my collection of 200+ Warmachine/Hordes minis can attest to...only seven of them painted by yours truly...many still unpainted.]

nope that word flies in all the Games workshop stores. But I am a hobbist so i hope we get to build and paint them. or at least they come so i can prime them and repaint them the way i want. I want to paint them by squads.
Yes you should add them to your collection of books. good news if you maintained your Invid invasion book you could pretty much run the world that way since it read like a copy paste to me. And return of the masters would be a good add in to use for adventure. just up date the mechanics and your good to go.

[MikelAmroni]

Hey I'll probably STILL paint them. I customize my Mechwarrior and D&D minis all the time, in addition to stuff like my Space Marines, High Elves, Tomb Kings, and 40K Orks. Adding in custom paint jobs is half the fun, though I won't have a problem not having to put them together.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Hey I'll probably STILL paint them. I customize my Mechwarrior and D&D minis all the time, in addition to stuff like my Space Marines, High Elves, Tomb Kings, and 40K Orks. Adding in custom paint jobs is half the fun, though I won't have a problem not having to put them together.

I like to custom pose my mini's. thats the reason i like to build them and want them in plastics. Metal is more of a pain in the butt when custom posing them.
if we should ever find ourselves in the same region of the states we should play some warhammer.

[Alpha 11]

A quick side question, what is your favorite group to play in 40k?

[Lt Gargoyle]

A quick side question, what is your favorite group to play in 40k?

My prefered Army is Eldar. Has been for a long time. But way back in the day it was chaos then blood Angels. I enjoy Necron and Tryanids and will play Tau when my son is visiting so we can play together on the same side.

[Alpha 11]

A quick side question, what is your favorite group to play in 40k?

My prefered Army is Eldar. Has been for a long time. But way back in the day it was chaos then blood Angels. I enjoy Necron and Tryanids and will play Tau when my son is visiting so we can play together on the same side.

My only experice is the computer games. I like the Space Marines and Sisters of Battle the most so far.

[Lt Gargoyle]

A quick side question, what is your favorite group to play in 40k?

My prefered Army is Eldar. Has been for a long time. But way back in the day it was chaos then blood Angels. I enjoy Necron and Tryanids and will play Tau when my son is visiting so we can play together on the same side.

My only experice is the computer games. I like the Space Marines and Sisters of Battle the most so far.

Ah, well i did not get the last one. I chose to get actual models and just spaced it. But I still prefer the Eldar in the dawn of war series.

[Tiree]

I rate the books as following:

Robotech TSC - if you drop the OCC's, it is a perfect thing to insert into your old game system. It is the version 1.5 that allows for any mecha to be brought into Rifts as is for those cross overs. And it brings the mecha in line with what you see in the show.

Masters and Macross are both a true Robotech 2nd generation game.

The New Generation Sourcebook - goes back to the 1.5 version of the game. But in this case, all the OCC's can be ported to the old game.

Out of all the books - this is the weakest link in keeping it 'tight', fast play game system. I am expecting the same from Genesis Pits.

[Lt Gargoyle]

i am just hoping to see some useful stuff in genesis pits

[MidnightBlue]

Well I'm a diehard Macross era fan.

There's just nothing like the image of flying in an F-14-esque fighter jet through atmosphere and space...going to guardian mode when you want to hug some tight corners and do some urban combat flying...and then transform into a 40+ foot tall robot to go hand to hand with some 40+ foot alien!

I've played and enjoyed all of the eras, but Macross will always have a special place in my heart and memories.

Southern Cross? My least favorite era. I really only liked the looks of the Ajax.

Next Gen? Okay...yeah, I loved the Cyclones...especially the saber. The Cyclones filled the only regret from my Macross VF roleplaying. Namely, if my veritech goes down...my pilot is screwed. There was very little in the book that an ejecting pilot could have with him to try to survive against the Zentradi. But Next Gen veritech pilots have a Cyclone to fall back on. That's pretty darn sweet!

I liked the concept of the Alpha + Beta combat pairing...I just didn't care for the looks of them as much as their F-14 look-alike older brothers.

But I'd play any if given the chance of course.

[Alpha 11]

i am just hoping to see some useful stuff in genesis pits

It all depends on your definition of useful.

[Lt Gargoyle]

i am just hoping to see some useful stuff in genesis pits

It all depends on your definition of useful.

Well to be fair I really dont need a book to give me dinosaurs or mutant ants. I understand what the concept of a Genesis pit is and why they are there. But how many are on the planet and how many times will one group discover them? So somthing that could be covered in about ten pages.

What i see being useful would be something like the regents troops and possibly anything we could use for games. this will allow for players and gms to play some of the pioneer mission.

perhaps some of the marine stuff once promised. How about the states for the Icurus. But a book on the genesis pit alone, I find this a hard book to sale before the marines, or the spaceship book that was canned.

[Seto Kaiba]

There's just nothing like the image of flying in an F-14-esque fighter jet through atmosphere and space...going to guardian mode when you want to hug some tight corners and do some urban combat flying...and then transform into a 40+ foot tall robot to go hand to hand with some 40+ f[oot alien!

Yeah, the timeless visual aesthetic of the Macross mecha and the beautifully choreographed dogfights in the series make one hell of a winning combination if you have a good gm and enthusiastic players.

Next Gen? Okay...yeah, I loved the Cyclones...especially the saber. The Cyclones filled the only regret from my Macross VF roleplaying. Namely, if my veritech goes down...my pilot is screwed. There was very little in the book that an ejecting pilot could have with him to try to survive against the Zentradi. But Next Gen veritech pilots have a Cyclone to fall back on.

Ah, yeah... the Ride Armors (RT: "Cyclones") have always been my favorite part of the original GCM OSM.

They make for good footslogging combat stories if that's what your players are into, and they're a hell of a lot more memorable than the "me too" fighters that were the Legioss (Alpha) and TLEAD (Beta). The thing that always bothered me about them in either the original or RT settings was that they're basically useless as an escape vehicle outside of a really specific and really unlikely set of circumstances. The pilot wears the suit's interface layer as a flight suit, but if he ejects voluntarily or automatically, his ride is left behind aboard the fighter. The bike is only viable in the really specific set of circumstances where the fighter is going down with just the right amount of damage to leave it unflyable but not enough to destroy it or to force the pilot to eject. The pilot has to land his just-damaged-enough fighter right side up without the impact leaving him with more than a couple bumps and scratches so he can operate a motorcycle with reasonable competence, and be able to get the bloody thing out of the fighter and unfolded. It's so very unlikely that any downed pilot would be able to meet those exacting circumstances without Kira Yamato grade plot armor that we're just left to wonder if its the bikes are installed in fighters on a "more in hope than expectation" basis.

Some of the later sequels to the original Macross series have examples of escape systems done the right way... like EX-Gear, an ejection seat that transforms into a flight-capable powered suit with a huge anti-material rifle. Even the 2E RT RPG doesn't leave the Macross Saga's pilots up a creek without any paddles if they ditch. They have that rocket launcher we see Max grabbing out of his cockpit when he ditches his VF-1A on Britai's ship, statted such that one could conceivably take down a destroid with one.

[MidnightBlue]

Next Gen? Okay...yeah, I loved the Cyclones...especially the saber. The Cyclones filled the only regret from my Macross VF roleplaying. Namely, if my veritech goes down...my pilot is screwed. There was very little in the book that an ejecting pilot could have with him to try to survive against the Zentradi. But Next Gen veritech pilots have a Cyclone to fall back on.

Ah, yeah... the Ride Armors (RT: "Cyclones") have always been my favorite part of the original GCM OSM.

They make for good footslogging combat stories if that's what your players are into, and they're a hell of a lot more memorable than the "me too" fighters that were the Legioss (Alpha) and TLEAD (Beta). The thing that always bothered me about them in either the original or RT settings was that they're basically useless as an escape vehicle outside of a really specific and really unlikely set of circumstances. The pilot wears the suit's interface layer as a flight suit, but if he ejects voluntarily or automatically, his ride is left behind aboard the fighter. The bike is only viable in the really specific set of circumstances where the fighter is going down with just the right amount of damage to leave it unflyable but not enough to destroy it or to force the pilot to eject. The pilot has to land his just-damaged-enough fighter right side up without the impact leaving him with more than a couple bumps and scratches so he can operate a motorcycle with reasonable competence, and be able to get the bloody thing out of the fighter and unfolded. It's so very unlikely that any downed pilot would be able to meet those exacting circumstances without Kira Yamato grade plot armor that we're just left to wonder if its the bikes are installed in fighters on a "more in hope than expectation" basis.

Some of the later sequels to the original Macross series have examples of escape systems done the right way... like EX-Gear, an ejection seat that transforms into a flight-capable powered suit with a huge anti-material rifle. Even the 2E RT RPG doesn't leave the Macross Saga's pilots up a creek without any paddles if they ditch. They have that rocket launcher we see Max grabbing out of his cockpit when he ditches his VF-1A on Britai's ship, statted such that one could conceivably take down a destroid with one.

It's been a while since I looked at my books or had the chance to play, so maybe this was a house rule, but we always had the cyclone eject with the pilot.

The pilot still had to get to it once they both touched down and activate it of course.

[Seto Kaiba]

It's been a while since I looked at my books or had the chance to play, so maybe this was a house rule, but we always had the cyclone eject with the pilot.

Don't have my 1E books on hand, but I'm pretty sure that's a house rule... the original Legioss (RT: Alpha) design doesn't even have a proper ejection seat, if you'd believe it. The Armo-Soldier mode (RT: Battloid) ejection sequence is the only one which was diagrammed, and that just shoots the pilot seat out the mecha's back on a rocket sled, leaving it to fall six meters or so to the ground at speed. It really would go a long way if someone gave the poor sods a parachute or at least some verniers on the goofy body armor.

[Alpha 11]

i am just hoping to see some useful stuff in genesis pits

It all depends on your definition of useful.

Well to be fair I really dont need a book to give me dinosaurs or mutant ants. I understand what the concept of a Genesis pit is and why they are there. But how many are on the planet and how many times will one group discover them? So somthing that could be covered in about ten pages.

What i see being useful would be something like the regents troops and possibly anything we could use for games. this will allow for players and gms to play some of the pioneer mission.

perhaps some of the marine stuff once promised. How about the states for the Icurus. But a book on the genesis pit alone, I find this a hard book to sale before the marines, or the spaceship book that was canned.

For some reason, I think the Inorganics might be in the book, but I could be wrong on that info.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I could have sworn the same thing, but it doesn't appear to be in II, Sentinels, of the REF field guides anywhere.

For what's its worth, my group and all four GMs did the same thing, and it does make sense. Assume there is a slip in framework that Scott leaves behind that punches out with your seat and uses radio units to stay in close vicinity to the seat and pilot. It certainly isn't going to unbalance things any, and a man on foot with a Gallant, pistol of Rifle, is no match for an Invid. If you want to separate them that badly, have a random shot strike the landing frame and the pilot has to slog over to get it, or have a random Invid ram into it by accident, sending it spinning off or flat destroying them both via sheer impact.

I read that too. Back before there was the internet for the masses.

[glitterboy2098]

with Shadow Chronicles,we now know that robotech alpha's can eject the whole nose assembly.. and it looks to go far enough back that the cyclone could come along for the ride. ejecting using that method would, in theory, be safer (on the principle that anything destructive enough to cripple or destroy an alpha such that you have to eject would likely be utter murder on an exposed pilot), but mainly it would ensure the cyclone is available after ejection.

[Seto Kaiba]

with Shadow Chronicles,we now know that robotech alpha's can eject the whole nose assembly.. and it looks to go far enough back that the cyclone could come along for the ride. ejecting using that method would, in theory, be safer (on the principle that anything destructive enough to cripple or destroy an alpha such that you have to eject would likely be utter murder on an exposed pilot), but mainly it would ensure the cyclone is available after ejection.

The Cyclone bay is behind the nose block, so it's unlikely that the Cyclone would be taken with it... its done the same way that the VF-1D's was, where the cockpit separates right behind where the canopy ends. The Cyclone bay is further back, between the four cell ports.

[ESalter]

WRT Cyclone ejection:

I could have sworn the same thing, but it doesn't appear to be in II, Sentinels, of the REF field guides anywhere.

Could you be thinking of Third Invid War?

[ESalter]

Possibly, but its been a long time since I went there, since its been a long time since he updated...which is a real shame honestly, I quite preferred his version to what we got really. We have so little on the Haydonites that the fully fleshed out concepts of his Invid were so much more appealing.

I don't care for the "Invid come back for more fighting" aspect of the original RPG; but the Invid were the best part of Shadow Chronicles, and it would be great to see them operating some of Juta or Borden's mecha. Great site.

[Alpha 11]

Possibly, but its been a long time since I went there, since its been a long time since he updated...which is a real shame honestly, I quite preferred his version to what we got really. We have so little on the Haydonites that the fully fleshed out concepts of his Invid were so much more appealing. I wonder if that's where i got the idea for Solugi MOS/Castes? (not the name, I most certainly got the name from his site, but the idea of differing Invid inclinations at a gene-evolved level.)

I so LOVE his site! And I don't think he ever will come back and finish it. About 2 or so years ago, he was on a pod cast, I think, and one of the condictions for asking questions was to not ask him about finishing it, because he wasn't going to. Though I wanted to ask him if he had any info that he hadn't put up on the site and that to at least put that up, even if it was unfinished. But never got around to do that.

[BookWyrm]

I too still have the previous "1st edition" stuff, even the Rifter articles. I've had a good look at the 2nd edition stuff & I have to say, I am very impressed. Pity about the original Palladium stuff being cast aside. I love the read of Return of the Masters & Lancer's Rockers.

My question is, is 2nd edition completely ignoring/disavowing Sentinels, or will that be incorporated into the new with a sourcebook later?

[glitterboy2098]

I too still have the previous "1st edition" stuff, even the Rifter articles. I've had a good look at the 2nd edition stuff & I have to say, I am very impressed. Pity about the original Palladium stuff being cast aside. I love the read of Return of the Masters & Lancer's Rockers.

My question is, is 2nd edition completely ignoring/disavowing Sentinels, or will that be incorporated into the new with a sourcebook later?

something similar to Sentinels occurred, as we see elements of it in the Prelude comics. but the old Movie/show pilot is de-canonized for the most part.

the Prelude comics imply an arrival at Tyrol at a much later date than the old version, and a far larger campaign/war with much larger human forces.

[Alpha 11]

I too still have the previous "1st edition" stuff, even the Rifter articles. I've had a good look at the 2nd edition stuff & I have to say, I am very impressed. Pity about the original Palladium stuff being cast aside. I love the read of Return of the Masters & Lancer's Rockers.

My question is, is 2nd edition completely ignoring/disavowing Sentinels, or will that be incorporated into the new with a sourcebook later?

Lancer's Rockers, the only book I don't have. I'm happy with most of the 2nd edition, some not so much.

[SRoss]

Lancer's Rockers, the only book I don't have. I'm happy with most of the 2nd edition, some not so much.

It got panned quite a bit by the fans. I've got a copy. Basically it's teenaged Rockers traveling across country from Detroit to New Mexico to find Lancer and stop an E.B.S.I.S. group from working with the Invid to build a several hundred foot tall Mecha with a sonic cannon, and keep them from destroying LA.

[BookWyrm]

True that, but if you're a completist like me, you'll want it. Check Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=la ... s&_sacat=0

[Alpha 11]

True that, but if you're a completist like me, you'll want it. Check Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=la ... s&_sacat=0

Will be keeping a VERY close eye on this.

[Alpha 11]

Bought one!

[BookWyrm]

Cool, Alpha. Happy reading!

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

the Prelude comics imply an arrival at Tyrol at a much later date than the old version, and a far larger campaign/war with much larger human forces.

Well....the old RPG Sentinels intimated that the REF may have arrived at Tirol with a fleet of upwards of 30,000 warships.....

[Alpha 11]

Cool, Alpha. Happy reading!

Thanks! It arrived today!

the Prelude comics imply an arrival at Tyrol at a much later date than the old version, and a far larger campaign/war with much larger human forces.

Well....the old RPG Sentinels intimated that the REF may have arrived at Tirol with a fleet of upwards of 30,000 warships.....

I don't remember that. What page?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I don't remember that. What page?

IIRC, the opening "historical" text before the timeline.

[Alpha 11]

I don't remember that. What page?

IIRC, the opening "historical" text before the timeline.

Thanks!