Writing Style for future books

[AuroraKet]

I'm glad to see this post here. I'll agree about the 'cost overrun' stuff. It really does feel like modern day Earth regardless of era, just with mecha around the corner. Which is, well, silly. Even if funny on one or two levels.

One thing that REALLY caught my notice was the lack of character stattings for the Masters Saga book. Where exactly did those go? Was it not allowed to make the book a little bigger for them? Or is there some mandate that the releases can only be 56 pages? Having a 'name' show up on the fringes once in a while isn't a bad thing.

I also noticed how the game system seemed to evolve in the Masters saga book, now aside from the quick-stat Jack of All Trades roll, OCC Related skills can be swapped for a second OCC. That's pretty neat, for retroactive adding to other books as well.

The most glaring issue, and I know this isn't you fault, is the schedule slip. I posted on this elsewhere, though.

[DhAkael]

whoa...
just...whoa.
I'm glad I didn't need to write that (my fingers woulda fallen off) but kudo's on bringing up the "Ugly" that was the 'Good Bad & the...'.

Very good points and several of the many reason why I refused to touch the other two boos in the RT 2nd Ed. series (that and I feel we got shafted with the Manga format for RT:SC).

So..when are we getting our 8.5X11 formats and when are we gonna stuff Tommy Yune into a gunny sack and drop him into a very very deep dark place? Huhhuhhuhhuhhuh?

"Mr. Macekere-man, all is forgiven...PLEASE come back."

[taalismn]

I agree with you on the monetary issue....Cosmic Communism now!

[jedi078]

I don’t mind the way Gideon added real world technology into Robotech, after all it is set in contemporary times with alien technology. The reason we didn’t see 2009 era gear int eh carton is because it came out in the 1980’s.

I know people will use the “the timeline diverged in the 1970/1980’s” line to argue against the inclusion of real world technology, but IMO the real world technology adds flavor to the game instead of something set in contemporary times but with 1980’s tech that seem downright archaic. Of course I have been running a PBP game since February 2006 that has included real world technology, and my players seem to not mind. They’ve stuck around for almost four years.

I do wonder why the laser apertures of the ASC energy weapons are 5.56mm and 7.62mm. As for conventional firearms in Robotech they were present in the original Robotech RPG, I just don’t agree with 5.56mm and 7.62mm round doing MDC damage. Anything 12.7mm (i.e. 50 cal) and up should do MDC damage.

I am not a fan of SLMH as the sole power source for mecha, in my games it is simply the ‘reaction mass’ needed to maneuver in space. I’m not a big fan of the Silverback having parts commonalty with the Cyclone (sorry wrong size). Yes, cyclone weapons can be mounted to it, but interchangeable parts? No.

I made auto dodge only applicable to the Cyclone, flying faster the 300mph and when in zero gravity (space). An Officer Pod doesn’t need auto dodge on the ground. I can see Fighter Pods having chaff/flares, after all the Zentraedi probably fought somebody throughout the centuries that used missiles.

One more gripe I have is weapons damage progression. Mecha mounted weapons need to do more damage then hand held infantry weapons. Also MDC levels are out of whack from on era to the next. Then you the bull crap with Destriods still having lower MDC values then the veritechs. Veritechs don’t need a butt load of MDC, they have higher dodge bonuses after all.

As for the state of the world….IMO the Zentraedi Rain of Death was not as bad as portrayed in the cartoon. In 2009 Macross Island had shelters for the civilian populace which were airtight. By 2011 most cities around the worked had the same shelters. After all the UEG knew there was an alien armada out there, and they might just decide to bombard the planet. I also figure that the Zentraedi blockaded Earth to prevent human ships from linking up with the SDF-1, and thus there a few skirmishes between human and Zentraedi forces in orbit while the SDF-1 made it way back home. OK back to topic. So we get the Rain of Death, and with most cities outside the major blast zones having shelters a large number of the populace survived. What didn’t survive was land to grow crops on. Many people died in the aftermath of the rain of death for a myriad of reasons such as civil disorder, invading Zentraedi, famine etc. But still a lot of people made it, and thus by 2014/2015 refurbished Zentraedi ship were sent to colonize nearby worlds. These colonies would later become the backbone of the UEEF in terms of manpower, food, and raw materials.

In the end, for those who don’t like the inclusion of real world technology into Robotech, simply remove it. It’s your game.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Along came the Masters Sourcebook Holy crap, more O.C.Cs

This was one of my main concerns when reading about the 'Marines' being the REF's ground forces in the Shadow Chronicles RPG as I knew it was going to needlessly multiply things. All that was needed was to stat out the GMP base OCC (since the GMP is most certainly a full-fledged Military Service in the series), and add MOS's to the 'REF' templates, exchanging 'Marine' for Army etc.

I don't know who's idea to have the unseen Southern Cross mecha be turned into hydrogen powered Power Armour, but dammit, the artwork doesn't even match the concept.

That was Tommy Yune's doing. The Powered Armour of the Southern Cross should only have been the Fenris (Air Cavalry), Manticore (Space-version based on the Fenris) and Kraken (Deep Submergence). I provided conclusive proof, repeatedly, of the Triton being a full-sized mecha FROM the Tv series. I also showed that the size comparison of the Unicorn in the Southern Cross colouring book shows it to be co-equal with the Gen II Soldier Bioroid (Bioroid Scout). As it was, there was no reason to make the Basilisk a Powered Armour as they would simply have adapted the Fenris to desert conditions. Ultimately, Gideon was told to do what Tommy Yune said, despite evidence to the contrary (which is typical of Tommy).

The Robotech web site has the Ajax veritech literally having a helicopter mode, so I guess there was little choice in this matter but to model it accordingly. Did anyone bother to check the line-art? Ain't no way those are helicopter blades and the housing at the centre doesn't even look like it allows the 'blades' to rotate 360 degrees.

No, its directly from the lineart. The Ajax has 3 distinct modes: Fighter, Helicopter & Battloid. Now, I imagine the Helicopter mode gets a good deal of boost from the jet engines (think transformable Airwolf). Or it could be, as I believe CavScout suggested, its a 'hovercopter' (as per dialogue) and it uses contra-grav technology and the blades are more 'decorative' than functional.

the liberal slathering of SLMH across the board

That, again, was Tommy Yune's doing and is counter-intuitive to the whole nature of Robotech as well as violates numerous pieces of dialogue (cf - Monster crewman stating the reflex furnace was powered up in Force of Arms & Spartas mechanic referring to the Conversion Mode Proto-Generator in Mind Games). I think Jefffar and others are right, SLMH is just a refined product of The Flower of Life (so its Protoculture).

Oh and the “Poor Funding” excuse pops it's ugly head into this book at the start the Battloid descriptions.

Thats because Tommy doesn't understand the radical difference in battlefield doctrine between the Battloids & Destroids. The former are Infantry Support weapons (of a type) that use their excellent mobility (jump jets), relative high ground speed and human form to negotiate terrain most Destroids couldn't even begin to attempt. Its also just another way for Tommy and company to say "Southern Cross sucks".

What do you readers want?

I want corrections for all the major and minor goofs in the Southern Cross RPG book such as the Sylphide being too slow, minimal (at best) improvement in armour and having an incorrect weapons loadout.

I want something that doesn't feel disconnected. I know its mostly HG's fault, but I swear to God, reading the books makes me think I'm playing SDF: Macross, SDC: Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada and NOT Robotech. The new game suffers from the same thing as the new comics: its still being treated as 3 separate entities that somehow share only 1 or 2 common factors.

[jaymz]

I wish the books were cohesive and consistent. Can someone PLEASE tell me why we went fromt eh VF-1 to teh Alpha aside from teh alpha having more MDC? Seriosuly the VF-1 is faster, better armed or can be, spremely more versatile andhas a gun pod that can actuakly hurt somehitng in 2 attacks....I;d never want an Alpha in a sentinels type environment. Giveme my trusty SUper VF-1 over the Alpha hands down.

Not to mention why would they use such wimpy gunson the ASC mecha s well? Irs like they decided "oh well we can use GOOD weapons but lets use these instead...."

Back to Alpha as well....why woudl they use anythign other than Alphas for the ground forces? The Alpha has mor MKDC than everything barring the Tomahawk and Beta

I want to see the new books have errata of some kind for the previous 3 books fixing these problems. and they ARE problems. Complete inconsistency from book to book to book and even withint he boks themselves in regards ot mevcha weapons and personal weapons....rant over.

[jedi078]

I wish the books were cohesive and consistent. Can someone PLEASE tell me why we went fromt eh VF-1 to teh Alpha aside from the alpha having more MDC? Seriously the VF-1 is faster, better armed or can be, supremely more versatile and has a gun pod that can actually hurt something in 2 attacks....I’d never want an Alpha in a sentinels type environment. Give me my trusty Super VF-1 over the Alpha hands down.

A VT with FAST packs (i.e. the super package) can’t fly very well in atom. Although in my game I do allow the arm pods to be carried in atom.

I use a number of Macross mecha to bridge the gap between the VF-1 and VFA-6 Alpha. I even have 1st Generation Alpha's, and the Alpha's we see int he books are the 2nd generation versions.

Anyhow like you said at the end of your post it’s an inconsistency issue.

Not to mention why would they use such wimpy guns on the ASC mecha s well? Its like they decided "oh well we can use GOOD weapons but lets use these instead...."

Like what RSCF said Tommy Yune just wants Southern Cross to suck. I've upped the damages the ASC mecha weaposn do to fix this.

Back to Alpha as well....why would they use anything other than Alphas for the ground forces? The Alpha has more MDC than everything barring the Tomahawk and Beta

IMO veritechs need to have their MDC levels lowered, so that the Destriods have more MDC. Veritechs can transform and fly, and hence should weigh less and have less armor. I know a bunch of people disagree with this, stating that the veritech’s are hero mecha. But the end result of veritechs having more MDC then Destriods and Non-transformable battloids is that none of the players what o use those mecha. The players would rather be in a veritech. What I have done is lower the VT’s MDC levels (you still have a high dodge bonus), and raised the MDC of the Destriods and Non-transformable Battloids.

I have also gone though and reset the damage done by MDC weapons, and it has worked quite well in my play by post games.

[jaymz]

I wish the books were cohesive and consistent. Can someone PLEASE tell me why we went fromt eh VF-1 to teh Alpha aside from the alpha having more MDC? Seriously the VF-1 is faster, better armed or can be, supremely more versatile and has a gun pod that can actually hurt something in 2 attacks....I’d never want an Alpha in a sentinels type environment. Give me my trusty Super VF-1 over the Alpha hands down.

A VT with FAST packs (i.e. the super package) can’t fly very well in atom. Although in my game I do allow the arm pods to be carried in atom.

[/quote]

No but the VF-1 is still faster without the fast packs in atmosphere and is STILL far more versatile than the Alpha

[jedi078]

No but the VF-1 is still faster without the fast packs in atmosphere and is STILL far more versatile than the Alpha

If you’re talking about the CPU bonuses the VF-1 has….well common sense dictates that the Logan, AJACS, Alpha and Beta would also have the same bonuses.

Again this is a consistency issue that would have been avoided if the Macross era book was written first. Or when writing the Macross era book the writers should have ensured that the older mecha NOT outclass the ASC and New Gen mecha.

Because what we have are F-4 Phantoms (i.e. VF-1’s) outclassing F-15 Eagles (i.e. Alpha’s).

[jedi078]

I would have thought that knowing where the Robotech scale ended up (Shadow Chronicles) would have made it infinitely easier to scale down the mecha progression chart to the Macross level. If anything, I would have liked to have seen all the sourcebooks come out in reverse chronological order so that scale could have been sorted.

As it is now, we started at the end, then went to the start and filled in the gap.

If the writers had followed a dictated model of regression in tech, and MDC levels then the reverse chronological order would have worked.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I thought that the background text for the mecha of the new books is much better then the 1st ed books.

However,......

The setting backgrounds for the different books came up lacking in my book.
[aside] especially for the shadow chronicles book, it just skimmed the surface of the ending of the sentinels' Campaign with the mentioning of taking out General Edwards.[/aside]

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

And the model versions showed them all being battloid-sized.

The model versions did nothing whatsoever of the kind. I've already, REPEATEDLY, provided you with the exact drawing that shows the Kraken is a human-sized Powered Armour. Given the hole in the TO&E, the Fenris (about which we have NO official stats, not even size) makes better sense as an Air Cavalry Powered Armour.

[enyggma514]

You know I respect you guys that nit pick the stats and everything I really do. I'm a much simpler man I guess. I just want to blow **** up! And the books read fine to me....Then again I just want to know what my options are for blowing **** up!

[jaymz]

You know I respect you guys that nit pick the stats and everything I really do. I'm a much simpler man I guess. I just want to blow **** up! And the books read fine to me....Then again I just want to know what my options are for blowing **** up!

Oh the books READ fine the stats just suck with no consistency between one mecha and another or one book and another. The fluff text in the books is excellent and miles beyond the vast moajority of the stuff in the original edition.

[enyggma514]

George Lucas proved to us all with his prequel trilogy that consistency is overrated. Kids these days want fluff and random humor from R2-D2 and Jar Jar.

[jaymz]

George Lucas proved to us all with his prequel trilogy that consistency is overrated. Kids these days want fluff and random humor from R2-D2 and Jar Jar.

Tats fine in a movie or TV show....not so much in a game unfortunately.

[Chris0013]

You know I respect you guys that nit pick the stats and everything I really do. I'm a much simpler man I guess. I just want to blow **** up! And the books read fine to me....Then again I just want to know what my options are for blowing **** up!

Oh the books READ fine the stats just suck with no consistency between one mecha and another or one book and another. The fluff text in the books is excellent and miles beyond the vast moajority of the stuff in the original edition.

I think that this is the #2 issue we have with the books (#1 is lateness). The grenade launcher in the power armors goes from 8 rounds on some models to 10 rounds on others. Damage across the books is all off as well. PB should have determined a damage chart starting with the smallest personal weapon all the way up to the SDF-1's main gun and told the writers "this is what you use."

[jaymz]

I know Jason is a GREAT writer, and you have to take the editing and third party oversight into consideration when critiquing a work that can NOT by definition be 100% the writers own.

I think people should look at Jason's work beyond Robotech before making an overall judgment on his skills.

TO me his writing skills are not in question....it's the game stats