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The "fourth advantage" paragraph remains intact on RUE page 126 (bottom right, carrying to 127) albeit with some added mention of chewing gum (I blame the vagabonds)

Tor wrote:My interpretation that a charged TW device can be sensed by Psi-Stalkers is actually generosity towards the CS, since we aren't explicitly told this, but I interpret "Duration of Charge" to mean that a magical duration is present.

We actually are told this, in both the RMB (p. 89) and RUE (p. 126):

A third advantage to using P.P.E. as a means to power devices is that the energy is non-polluting, non-toxic, odorless (except to psi-stalkers, mutant dogs, and supernatural creatures), and has no known ill effects on human life.

I do agree, however, that TW devices would not emit such an "odor" when not active/charged, except possibly in the case of devices that physically store P.P.E.

Tor wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:psychics "can instantly and intuitively operate devices created through Techno-Wizardry" (RUE, p. 138). So, maybe they don't strictly know that a device is a product of Techno-Wizardry per se, but they know they can use it by channelling their energies into it, which narrows down the possibilities, particularly in North America.

The ability to operate a class of devices is not the ability to recognize it. Having WP revolver doesn't mean I know there's one hidden inside a teddy bear.

That is beside the point. There is a finite set of technologies that function on the principle of channeling P.P.E. or I.S.P. If you know intuitively that you can channel mystic energy into a device to make it work, then you know that it must be either A) a Techno-Wizard device, B) an Amaki Gizmoteer device, C) a Psi-Mechanic device, or D) a Noro Psylite Crystal device. Three of these are rare to nonexistent on Rifts Earth in general, and North America in particular, so most magic/psionic characters will have never heard of them, and will assume that they are holding a TW device anyway.

It doesn't say you do intuitively know that you can channel mystic energy into the device to make it work though.

Even if you have the capability, you probably need some instruction on how to do it, even if you pick it up in seconds.

Holding a TW device doesn't mean you know "I can launch my ISP into this thing and something will happen", it just means you CAN launch your energy in to make it happen.

Neither and both stances are supported by the text.
Sounds like its a GMs call as to how it works then.
I.e. if they are in the camp that says that "instantly and intuitively" means they just intuitively know what it is and how to use it on touch, or if this means that they need on additional special training and can be taught how to use it.

I would go with the 'intuitively means intuitively' interpretation and save the 'must be shown how' for people like children who can use the devices, and can be shown how....but do not get to do so intuitively.

When did only mages/psychics being able to use/power them mean an automatic ability to do so without instruction?

Tor wrote:When did only mages/psychics being able to use/power them mean an automatic ability to do so without instruction?

because its not only mages and psychics able to use them.
Explicitly there are examples of non-mage/non-psychics who can use them. HOWEVER Psychics are said to be able to use them instantly and intuitively.
My stance is this.
Premise 1: If something is intuitive then you don't need instruction.
Premise 2: Psychics can use TW intuitively
Conclusion: Psychics don't need instruction to use TW devices.

Tor wrote:It doesn't say you do intuitively know that you can channel mystic energy into the device to make it work though.

For a TW device, "operate" = "pump energy into it and pull the trigger/push the button/flip the switch, etc.", because otherwise, a TW device does nothing.

Tor wrote:Even if you have the capability, you probably need some instruction on how to do it, even if you pick it up in seconds.

"Instantly" = "immediately, without delay"
"Intuitively" = "without explicit instruction"

As noted, that's just psychics, though. I'm still looking for a reference for magic-wielders (other than dragons) having a similar ability.

Tor wrote:Holding a TW device doesn't mean you know "I can launch my ISP into this thing and something will happen", it just means you CAN launch your energy in to make it happen.

If you know how to do it, you also know that you know how to do it, although you may not know HOW you know how to do it.

Hmm...whenever we wondered if something was a TW device or not, we always attempted to pump some PPE into it to see if we could. If successful, we stopped immediately until we knew more about it. It would be pretty terrible to die because you provided the PPE required for a bomb...

In reviewing RUEp138 I notice that when it talks about this, it does not specify ALL psychics.

For example: we are told 2 things there:

Psychics can instantly and intuitively operate devices through Techno-Wizardry
They can also sense the supernatural and magic

Now: can ALL psychics sense the supernatural and magic? Or is that simply an ability that certain types of psychics have?

It stands to reason based on this that we are merely being given EXAMPLES of what SOME psychics are capable of doing, not an inherent ability of all of them.

The psychics able to intuitively/instantly operate TW devices are probably a minority such as Psi-Techs.

Even in their case: intuitive instant operation is not the same as detection. Using a TW device does not inherently mean that you recognize that what you are using is a techno-wizardry device. If I was a drunk psi-tech firing a charged TW laser pistol I may not even notice it's TW pistol and think I'm firing a normal e-clip one.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:For a TW device, "operate" = "pump energy into it and pull the trigger/push the button/flip the switch, etc.", because otherwise, a TW device does nothing.

No, pumping energy into it isn't necessary in all cases, it may have been preloaded by someone else or be an always-on thing like Mystic Power Armor.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:If you know how to do it, you also know that you know how to do it

Nope, just look at the TV series 'Blindspot', girl with amnesia knows all kinds of combat skills but she doesn't know she's capable of doing them until they happen. Just because you know why a laser gun works for you but not someone else doesn't mean you know why the gun works for you but not a non-psychic.

Tor wrote:I don't think we know enough about the demographics of TW usage to make conclusions like that. Being a minor psychic allows you to use them and the CS doesn't even bother requiring those guys to register with chips.

My guess is the number of minor psychics out there greatly outweighs mages or whatever you're referring to.

I think the TK pistol in psyscape must have its gem internal since otherwise it couldn't look identical to an automatic or energy pistol.

So basically, any automatic SDC pistol out there might actually be an MD-inflicting TW weapon, far as the CS knows, and they have no way of knowing until it's charged and registers as magic.

Minor psi may be able to use them but may not want to if they frequent CS territory. Most groups that I have seen use TW tend to have other things that has them on the CS banned list. Such as non human members or mages. If you are worried about CS approval you avoid such gear. If you using this gear you tend not to think what the CS allows.

Same logic can apply to Naruni gear, going full circle to the topic You dont' want to advertise you're using CS-banned stuff, but if you can hide it, why not?

The TK pistol in Psyscape appears the same as an automatic pistol, yeah it's banned, but unless the CS is doing Object Read on every automatic SDC pistol they come across, a lot are going to slip through. Ramjet rounds are controlled too but probably make their way around a lot too in spite of it.