Invid Sidebar

[skeletorrobo]

thats true however a lot of the invid forces were held in suspended animation. Oppressing the humans didnt have any apparent function as long as they didnt interfere with the invids cultivation of the flower of life. Only when the Regis decided to convert the invid race to human beings did the destruction of humanity be seen as a necessity

[skeletorrobo]

sorry wrong thread

[Rimmerdal]

sorry wrong thread

Worry not!

I can see the Regis motives for humanity being an interesting topic...

[skeletorrobo]

btw if anyone bothers to read and reply to this how do you delete a dud thread???

[Rimmerdal]

btw if anyone bothers to read and reply to this how do you delete a dud thread???

get a mod to or delete the inital post...but I say your missing out on good topic.

it's not an alignment thread...but it could halfways decent.

[Rimmerdal]

Okay Skell let me start it....

alright since buddy won't I will....(Kicks skeletorrobo out the threads engine...)

Okay people...The Regis odviously had no intention on killing off humanity.

BUT dshe had several reservations about them.

1) the Robotech masters we're human (or a strain humanity...) so she saw robotech masters...

2) after 10k years she'd be defensive to say the least...and her view on people who use PC is a less than healthy.

Coments..?

[skeletorrobo]

well ok the Regis i believe is something of a heroic figure if you factor in the whole robotech sentinels chronology.

At first naive and some exploited by Zor, feeling the pain of a love betrayed ( but then she did betray the regent) to leaving the maniacal cruelty of the regent forever behind (though accepting some responsiblity) to setting out on a mission to rescue her people and then ironically saving the human race as well she stands out in Robotech as a character who evolves (no pun intended) for the better over time.

ps is there anyway to change a thread name?

[chaserone]

First off, I must say that the regent wasn't quite betrayed. Although, it depends on the version of the Invid history that you read. The Regis/Regent was betrayed by Zor, Optera was defoliated by the Zentraedi and the flowers given to the robotech masters for Zor to process into protoculture and research.

In her rage, the Regis/Regent's personality split. The rage, hatred, and warlike half becoming a physical manifestation called the Regent. Remember, the Regis was powerful enough to do things like that. The Sentinels book even talks of the central intelligence, feeling betrayed and traumatized, split into two manifestations and ruling leaders of the invid. The Regis and Regent.

She refers to humans as the shadow of the Robotech Masters. Remember, she wiped out most of humanity and kept what was left as slaves and potential slave stock. She may have had a scrap of goodness in her when it came to the overall outcome, but in total, her actions towards humans was out of sheer paranoia and survival instincts.

Albeit, she was alot nicer than the Regent. I think her overall sparing of the small pockets of humanity that she did was out of old feelings of love for Zor... or at least a bit of blind compassion, otherwise she would have just killed everyone. Yet, I dont think that she saved humanity, in fact it was because of her that the Robotech Masters rushed the assault on Earth. It was because of her that humanity was in the predicament that they were in in the first place. Basically, towards the end, she just stopped and found somewhere new to dominate, as mentioned in the last episode of Robotech (Symphony of Light). Leaving humanity behind to rebuild after her destructive wake.

So all in all, she didnt save humanity, she spared them.

[skeletorrobo]

Yeah just remembered the palladium version of the Regis and Regent so i can accept that. But i dont think The Regis could be blamed for the whole mess with the zentraedi and the robotech masters attacking earth- they possessed free will (masters anyway) and the SDF-1 had been sent to earth due to Zor. In the final episode she destroys the nuetron-x missles which were destined to destroy all human life on earth when there was no selfish reason to do so. So she is all up, and i believe symphony of light intends to portray her as such- a heroic and albeit ironic, saivour of mankind.

[chaserone]

Yeah just remembered the palladium version of the Regis and Regent so i can accept that. But i dont think The Regis could be blamed for the whole mess with the zentraedi and the robotech masters attacking earth- they possessed free will (masters anyway) and the SDF-1 had been sent to earth due to Zor. In the final episode she destroys the nuetron-x missles which were destined to destroy all human life on earth when there was no selfish reason to do so. So she is all up, and i believe symphony of light intends to portray her as such- a heroic and albeit ironic, saivour of mankind.

Yeah it did in a way. If you have a chance to read Jack McKinney's robotech novels, you will see a slightly different version of the invid history, but mostly the same. Its the stuff afterwards (End of the Circle) where things get really wierd and seems to be one of thousands of different future stories of what happens after the first invid occupation of Earth.

The Regis, in all wasnt the bad half of the invid. She was sour about what happened. She strived for survival, expanding her intellect on her knowledge of life and evolution and trying to bury her shadowy past. The Regent is most commonly referred to as Evil Incarnate itself. A being who is bent on hatred, revenge and destruction. Heck, check out the inorganics, those are some mean pieces of Invid war machinery. Ive watched MANY of my players in Robotech die to just the Jackknives and Hellcats alone.

[Rimmerdal]

well ok the Regis i believe is something of a heroic figure if you factor in the whole robotech sentinels chronology.

At first naive and some exploited by Zor, feeling the pain of a love betrayed ( but then she did betray the regent) to leaving the maniacal cruelty of the regent forever behind (though accepting some responsiblity) to setting out on a mission to rescue her people and then ironically saving the human race as well she stands out in Robotech as a character who evolves (no pun intended) for the better over time.

ps is there anyway to change a thread name?

Just go to Edit on the Initial post and change the title.

[Rimmerdal]

Yeah just remembered the palladium version of the Regis and Regent so i can accept that. But i dont think The Regis could be blamed for the whole mess with the zentraedi and the robotech masters attacking earth- they possessed free will (masters anyway) and the SDF-1 had been sent to earth due to Zor. In the final episode she destroys the nuetron-x missles which were destined to destroy all human life on earth when there was no selfish reason to do so. So she is all up, and i believe symphony of light intends to portray her as such- a heroic and albeit ironic, saivour of mankind.

Yeah it did in a way. If you have a chance to read Jack McKinney's robotech novels, you will see a slightly different version of the invid history, but mostly the same. Its the stuff afterwards (End of the Circle) where things get really wierd and seems to be one of thousands of different future stories of what happens after the first invid occupation of Earth.

The Regis, in all wasnt the bad half of the invid. She was sour about what happened. She strived for survival, expanding her intellect on her knowledge of life and evolution and trying to bury her shadowy past. The Regent is most commonly referred to as Evil Incarnate itself. A being who is bent on hatred, revenge and destruction. Heck, check out the inorganics, those are some mean pieces of Invid war machinery. Ive watched MANY of my players in Robotech die to just the Jackknives and Hellcats alone.

I know I was there when I guy ran into rather was under foot a Pincer Comand unit (messy) But there are points to show the regis is aleast in a small part human.

1) she doesn't start fights...only when the resistance stick it's nose in her business does she react...

2) she chose a human form for the stage 5. this means she must of seen something worthy in the race.

3) on the end she did spare them. Though this could easliy be a "your not worth wiping out" or "I may wish to study you again". Both are less positive but better than..."YOU DIE!!!"

[chaserone]

The regis took on human form to mimick her former love, Zor. She originally took on the form when seduced by Zor.

She is fascinated with the race while at the same time fearful of any race resembling the Robotech Masters and Tirolians.

[skeletorrobo]

3) on the end she did spare them. Though this could easliy be a "your not worth wiping out" or "I may wish to study you again". Both are less positive but better than..."YOU DIE!!!"

no dude. watch symphony of light again

"... It shall not be!..." The Regis doesnt spare humanity, she saves it.

[Zer0 Kay]

The regis took on human form to mimick her former love, Zor. She originally took on the form when seduced by Zor.

She is fascinated with the race while at the same time fearful of any race resembling the Robotech Masters and Tirolians.

Um last I checked the RT Masters ARE Tirolians.

[Jefffar]

More like "self-evolved" Tyrollians.

They've used protoculture to change themselves.

[chaserone]

okay Tirolians *nitpicky people*

Hey skelter.., could you quote the entire deal about how she came to say, "It shall not be..."?

Im curious about something or maybe I misinterpretted her whole reason for leaving the way she did.

In fact, read page 70 of invid invasion second column second paragraph from the bottom.

[Rimmerdal]

"Self Evolved" means a certain power Monger/Controller issue similar to the AI in rifts.

this they aren't Evil as much detatched...Would this fit the Regis?

[chaserone]

Yeah the regis was blinded by what Zor had done to her, so in all due respect for her being not evil. I dont think that she was inherantly evil. Her actions were more out of fear of further becoming hurt.

But a hero? You couldnt convince me of that. I still believe that she only spared humanity as apposed to saving it.

[skeletorrobo]

chaserone-

I cant remember the entire dialogue word for word but in Symphony of Light
when the REF launch the nuetron-x missles The Regis transoforms to the energy phoenix mid speech about the shadow of the robotech masters come to contaminate this world blah blah and then "it shall not be!" at which point her energy engulfs the warheads destroying them.

[Rimmerdal]

So this means she goes to get rid of the Robotech masters then?

[Jefffar]

No, she goes to find a place not tained by them so her people can evilve in peace.

[skeletorrobo]

Incidentally The Regis was aware the Robotech Masters had been destroyed. After all she knew her husband had devasted a token defended Tirol, while the only other place they could be would be Earth.

[Rimmerdal]

So where does this leave our now widowed Regis? with no masters to go after and very little else to than evolve her self what goals can a 10,000 year old + entity go storywise or otherwise?

Detriech had one view (the thrird invid war..) I always saw the stage 5's left on earth doing like the zentraedi..blend call earth home..

Besides they'd be great pilot of VF's..

[taalismn]

So where does this leave our now widowed Regis? with no masters to go after and very little else to than evolve her self what goals can a 10,000 year old + entity go storywise or otherwise?
.

The Regis is something of a 10,000 year old social virgin who has the power of a MOther-Goddess----the Invid have lived in blissful(some might say oblivious) peace chewing Flower of Life and living in harmony with their environment(suggesting that their native world was either remiss in the evolution of predators or the early Invid simply squeezed them out of the biosphere...or someone ELSE cleaned it all up for the sluggies)...then into this boring harmony drops queralous, exciting newcomers who kickstart the Invid with some stimulus, then just as the Invid are grooving to this crazy thing called 'civilization' and the slavish imitation of theri first contactees, the ET Tirolians blow them to snot.
Like an impressionable puppy kicked, the Invid lash back out and follow on through on the same thought, perhaps figuring if they get rid of the nastiness and divest themselves of the ETs, they can return to their bliss(or what they remember of it...it seems to have been warped from living in harmony with nature to taking the bad guys' form and beating them at the evolution game by becoming something greater). THe Invid are impressionable slugs with bad role models, and no previous perspective of contact/interaction with 'others'(not of their group mind) to show them any other response other than straight-out backlash aggression(the Invid for instance don't start a guerilla campaign against the Masters or try subverting the Tirollians' vassal worlds against them).


So the Regis goes surfing off to try to find her next stage of evolution, but is she really all that well equipped to handle it? She's concluded that humans are nuts.....beasts, driven by their own aggression and lack of commonsense(and perhaps a communal mind)...Her experiments with the Human form may have shown her that such beings are unreliable, fostering in themselves ambition and dissent with the group-mind hierarchy....THis may lead to a general purging of the Invid social structure in whatever new haven they find, of 'tainted' invid as the Regis tries to pare her people down to a new form more amenable to her concept of 'evolution'...so off-camera, there could be an invid civil war, or perhaps a further string of worlds and genesis pits where the various rejects are left to rot, or develop cultures of their own...Rather than later facing one Invid race, later REF expeditions might encounter a variety of 'fast-tracked' or fast-evolved Invid subspecies, from protoculture-enhanced Stage 6s, to freespace-dwelling energy lifeforms, or giant planet-spanning networked organisms...provided that the Regis has the energy to waste on such projects(personally, I'd consider an evolution away from dependence/addiction to the flower of life a REAL fundamental change both biologically and socially for the Invid...but whether or not such a radical move would destroy Invid social cohesion or not is up for debate).


One wonders, though, what might have happened had the Invid made contact with space travellers prior to the Tirolians, like god-beings like Ahura Mazda or people like the Sentinel races(the Mechanoids would probably just ignore them, the Kreeghor would pop 'em like escargot, and Faerie folk would ride 'em around and tie their procibis in two just on a lark...)?

[chaserone]

chaserone-

I cant remember the entire dialogue word for word but in Symphony of Light
when the REF launch the nuetron-x missles The Regis transoforms to the energy phoenix mid speech about the shadow of the robotech masters come to contaminate this world blah blah and then "it shall not be!" at which point her energy engulfs the warheads destroying them.

And then consumes the entire expeditionary force destroying them, except, maybe a few ships. still can't convince me of that being heroic. And in the RPG books, she has a small contingent of Invid return to continue harvesting the plant to keep her people alive. Hence some of the later books (Lancers Rockers and such) and netbooks, such as the Third Invid War.

[skeletorrobo]

And then consumes the entire expeditionary force destroying them, except, maybe a few ships. still can't convince me of that being heroic. And in the RPG books, she has a small contingent of Invid return to continue harvesting the plant to keep her people alive. Hence some of the later books (Lancers Rockers and such) and netbooks, such as the Third Invid War.

well it might not convince you but saving innocent people from destruction sounds like heroism to me. I think the truest impression of the Regis' character can be taken from the series.

[taalismn]

And then consumes the entire expeditionary force destroying them, except, maybe a few ships. still can't convince me of that being heroic. And in the RPG books, she has a small contingent of Invid return to continue harvesting the plant to keep her people alive. Hence some of the later books (Lancers Rockers and such) and netbooks, such as the Third Invid War.

well it might not convince you but saving innocent people from destruction sounds like heroism to me. I think the truest impression of the Regis' character can be taken from the series.

Or...She's covering her retreat by taking out the main force of her oppressors and/or venting her outrage on the Robotech fleet....After all, she has no way of knowing that the JUpiter and Saturn fleets and their Neutron-S missiles are the REF's Big Push, and not the openning spearhead of a longer chain of reserve fleets lined up all the way back to the Local Group, with more being manufactured/built up by her enemies. 'Removing the Taint of the Masters' may be her way of saying 'destroy the Humans' space capability' in the courseof a strategic retreat....

[Jefffar]

Or she wiped out the force blocking her escape.

[chaserone]

Or she was trying to be a "hero" by destroying the only real defense the planet would have after she left...

[skeletorrobo]

Or...She's covering her retreat by taking out the main force of her oppressors and/or venting her outrage on the Robotech fleet....After all, she has no way of knowing that the JUpiter and Saturn fleets and their Neutron-S missiles are the REF's Big Push, and not the openning spearhead of a longer chain of reserve fleets lined up all the way back to the Local Group, with more being manufactured/built up by her enemies. 'Removing the Taint of the Masters' may be her way of saying 'destroy the Humans' space capability' in the courseof a strategic retreat....

Well i believe the Regis was aware that it was an all or nothing final strategy of the REF to win back the earth because there was a sense of finality to the arrival of the fleet. her words were to the effect "no! they have come, from beyond the stars the tides of shadow have come to engulf us again.." annie chimes in " geepers i didnt think there were so many ships in the entire universe"

Annie was no fleet commander but the dialogue is meant to imply the common understanding that the final battle was at hand. The Regis evidently sees the militarised portion of humanity as little better (if at all) or different to the robotech masters.

[/quote] Or she wiped out the force blocking her escape.

I dont think the REF anticipated that the Regis would try to escape (not to mention in energy form) Nor do i think could she could be blocked in energy form from escaping. You remeber seeing how she sweeps through the fleet like it was nothing.

The regis expresses herself that the humans have been influenced by the shadow of the robotech masters for too long to the point where they are prepared to destroy their own planet (although through talking with scotts band she sees somewhat herself to blame for it.) She knew the destructive potential of the missles on the earths inhabitants and (perhaps seeing the humans on earth as somewhat similar to the invid of old optera) saves them from annhilation as she departs.

[chaserone]

She could have easily destroyed the missiles and avoided the fleet... I still believe that after all that she had done to humanity, she couldnt be deemed as a hero. She had done too much damage and her overall persona was that of self preservation, not "lets save the humans".

[skeletorrobo]

i dont think the earthlings (which were generally apathetic to the REF) would have cared much to see the genocidal saturn fleet obliterated, but i concede the past actions of the Invid Regis wouldnt make her a heroine to the subjugated people of earth.

[chaserone]

Now the Regent, now that guy was an evil ass! The inorganics scream it all. I cant even remember all the evil ways Ive seen pcs bite it to scrim, odeon and hellcats alone.

[Sgt Anjay]

Well, the situation is a matter of perspective.
The Regis conquered the planet, enslaved humans. That's pretty much a bad thing all around, from the human perspective.
What she sees, is a planet overrun with humans who are little better than a shadow of the truly evil Robotech Masters, who had engaged in wars that were wrecking the planet itself. To add insult to injury, they dared to use the Invid's Flower of Life, which to them is heinous. So she's stepping in to take back her race's flower, and keep these humans from trashing a perfectly wonderful planet her race can use. Why would humans have a higher priority than her own species, who she's responsible for? Especially considering how lousy a job humans seem to be doing.
Then there's her "thrashing" of the REF fleet. Humans are coming to reclaim Earth, and she smashes them in her energy form as she leaves the planet. Doesn't sound too goody goody. But again, that's from one point of view, the REF's.
The Regis's point of view, is closer to something like seeing humans even more tainted by the Robotech Masters showing up to plunder what the Invid are finally regaining: a planet they can call home. Futhermore, these humans are going to destroy their own home planet (and all the members of their own race who live there) with huge missiles, which to a race that was traumatized when their planet was raped and trashed would be a truly horrible sin, not to mention incredibly stupid and shortsighted. Are these the people you want coming in with their weapons and taking control of a planet you care about? Not bloody likely. So destroying the invaders (the REF) is easily the best, definately the most moral, course of action.
Of course, there is a third point of view in this last situation, one that rarely gets considered. You're living life on Earth, wishing to be free, maybe even fighting to be free, and some jokers who at best haven't been to Earth in decades and at worst have never even layed eyeballs on the planet decide its not worth it. So they're going to kill you and everyone you've ever known, destroy everything you've ever cared for, and initiate another round of ecological disasters on our beat up globe. The Regis then not only decides to leave, giving you your freedom, but trashes the outsiders and their planet-killing missiles. If I'd been on Earth and known this, I'd give the Regis a big ol' thumbs up and the REF an entirely different finger.
Even worse, of course, is that most people wouldn't know all that, and would hail the REF who was prepared to call them all collateral damage as their "saviours". Excuse me if I cheer as the REF ships go up in flames....

[jedi078]

Some good points Sgt Anjay.

Makes you wonder how hard life could be for REF characters during the second Invid Occupation of Earth if it did come out that the REF High Command was planning to wipe out every soul on earth.

But you also have to think how much this would tick off REF forces already on Earth when the order to use the Neutron S missiles was given. They were pretty much left for dead.

This of course gets into that discussion of punishing who is responsible for giving that order (which we shouldn't get into since it has a tendency to lock threads).

[Jefffar]

No, threads that get into personal attacks and flaming get yanked.

I'm not opposed to discussing Robotech minutae, but I do have an obligation to keep the peace around here.

[Jefffar]

Or a 20 year old cartoon . . .

[Rimmerdal]

If you want to say she wasn't a hero because of her past actions, then what were Breetai and Exedore?

they are clones following directive and a few REF heroes we're mercs or worked as Mercs. They also made a truce and alliance with the humans to save them selves and earth (since they couldn't go home). Hence heroes by cirumstance and convinience.

[Rimmerdal]

Never said they reformed...THere still soldiers they just picked new leaders and allies. I's say it's more a fact of siding with the winner and choosing a better life.

The term "reformed" would mean Breetai was flawed or in someway a criminal. Now if the "Sonny and Cher" of the Zent (Zhyron and Azonia) became heroes I'd call that reforming.

As it with the good lady Invid, she was as she was before. Besides the flower grows on earth so leave the humans to guard it and she can keep better tabs on how it's used.

[Rimmerdal]

Rimmerdal - you mean like THIS???

That's good...can you imagine changing those diapers?

[Rimmerdal]

Yes at first the Regis view them as pest til the "mice" become a huge problem...and show signs of being a real threat.

but later she seems to give us 'earthlings' some credit when she made the stage fives. so her view of humanity varies a bit. but remember she is still a bit better than her ex-hubby who veiw us a well less than mice...but we still kick his but into the after life!