HTH: Commando and NGR OCCs

[dataweaver]

When Triax and the NGR was first published, the HTH: Commando skill didn't exist; it was introduced later in CWC. So the question that I have is: if it had been around at the time, would any of the NGR OCCs have had it, or at least had access to it?

Similar questions hold for many other skills that were introduced in later sourcebooks. As a more general question, are there any plans to address the NGR OCCs in an UE style of revision? (I wouldn't mind a "Triax and the NGR: UE" sourcebook updating the setting as well as the OCCs and hardware; but I can see why it might never happen, given the game's primary focus on North America.)

Can KS be talked into maybe adding an "UE Update" column to the Rifter, strictly for the purpose of updating other old OCCs to the UE standard?

[Richter]

Alot of more combat related O.C.C's are getting HTH Commando now according to RUE (much to my dissapointment, and I still hate everyone in New West who can get it)

but the rule now seems, if its any highly specialized combat class (except Juicers? wth?) they can usually select it for an additional 2 or 3 related skills.

Headhunters, Crazies and I think the new Mercs can take HTH Commando. Dont have my book handy

[Jefffar]

I assuem any occ that has access to martial arts and assassain has access to commando (unless there is a specific reason why they shouldn't, ie the Cyber-knight has it's own special version of Martial Arts).

As for you ultimate updates, write kev a letter.

[grandmaster z0b]

I really don't like the fact that Commando gives auto-dodge, at least it isn't till 5th level.
I play it that unless a Crazy, Juicer or something has Hand2hand Commando, the auto-dodge is only for attacks they know are coming. So can still be hit with a suprise attack or from behind. Only the super-human speed of the Juicer and the super senses and speed of the Crazy allow auto-dodge on all attacks even from behind.

[Killer Cyborg]

Juicers get auto-dodge by default, don't see why they would need to H2H Commando to affect that

Because it gives bonuses to autododge...

[Killer Cyborg]

Hmmm, why one would need a bonus to autododge is beyond me. Aren't the bonuses to autododge stackable with other 'dodge' bonuses?

Nope.
Just auto-dodge bonuses and PP bonuses.

[Richter]

Few things

HTH Commando is still far superior to the other HTH skills, regardless of autododge (tho I miss critical throws and auto throw) so theres plenty of reasons for a juicer to want it. Also, as pointed out, the auto dodge bonuses.

Also z0b, to cover what you said, the Juicer auto-dodge and the in game auto dodge work differently. Thankfully, they work just as you said. Juicers can autododge even surprise attacks etc due to their enchanced well..everything. Crazies can now do that as well. However, a normal "auto-dodge" just says you can dodge an attack w/o using an action. You still gotta know its coming to even attempt it. Commando doesnt give them enhanced senses, just a ridiculous combat reaction time.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

I don't like having Commando thrown out like candy. The fact that Gunslingers can have it is somethig that would never pass in my games. They way I imagined it was an intensely trained, military-style martial art form that was only accessable in special forces programs, and even then, only the most elite ones. I restrict it's use tightly to men at arms, and only special-ops types (basically, the Commando and Special Forces O.C.C.s that could originally access it).

[RockJock]

I doubt I would let a CS Ranger pick it up. They work with special forces, but they are guides not main combatants.


I have a NGR Intelligence Commando that I used as the basis of one of my first characters years ago. At the time of character creation WB 5 was new and the CS classes were limited. I used the NGR Occ as the basis for a CS sniper/special forces trooper. Years later when WB 11 came to be I upgrade him with HtH Commando, since that was essentially what I have.

[Jefffar]

The CS ranger is a main combatant, but I wouldn't put hand to hand combat as a top priority for his engagemnt profile.

The CS ranger is a stand off fighter, he scouts out the enemy location, provides the commander of his forces the relevant information, makes the path for the assault team to follow, keep the back door open for them to leave by, and makes sure any pursuit is lead the wrong way or detered.

He also has a role in neutralizing enemy scout forces.

The priamry comabt related skills for the CS ranger are stealth, mobility, trap making and accurate ranged weapons fire.

Hand to Hand Commando isn't much use for him

[Guest]

The CS ranger is a main combatant, but I wouldn't put hand to hand combat as a top priority for his engagemnt profile.

The CS ranger is a stand off fighter, he scouts out the enemy location, provides the commander of his forces the relevant information, makes the path for the assault team to follow, keep the back door open for them to leave by, and makes sure any pursuit is lead the wrong way or detered.

He also has a role in neutralizing enemy scout forces.

The priamry comabt related skills for the CS ranger are stealth, mobility, trap making and accurate ranged weapons fire.

Hand to Hand Commando isn't much use for him

I disagree, for one of the reasons you listed, "He also has a role in neutralizing enemy scout forces." HTH Commando is quite useful in fulfilling this role and I would recommend Assassin or Commando as the HTH skill of choice for this very reason.

[Jefffar]

I'm not saying hand to hand skill shouln't be a priority for the CS ranger, just that it is a lesser one. The rangers skills should focus on:

1) Effective movement and survival in wilderness areas over long distances with and without vehicular support
2) Avoidance of observation
3) Observation procedures
4) Avoidance of and creation of traps
5) Ranged Combat
6) Melee Combat
7) Non-combat interaction with civilians/non-hostile/hostile forces

Upgrading the hand to hand combat should only be done after the first 5 priorities are met.

[RockJock]

The Ranger is still primarily a scout. HtH shouldn't be their primary focus. They work like the EOD Specialist and other "support" classes. The average Ranger should be the equal of a Grunt in most military matters, but have the added focus on wilderness and some espionage skills.

If your average Grunt has Commando then your average Ranger should. It would be a rare Ranger to have it in my games. It wouldn't be impossible, but also not likely.

If it was up to me I would limit most military Occs to Expert, things like Military Specialst to Assassin or Martial Arts, and things like SF, or Commando would get HtH Commando. This would give more difference between the classes.