WP Heavy Energy Weapon

[Dead Boy]

Tomato ... To-mah-to. NE plasma weapons still fire a blast of plasma. It's only the shape of the plasma blast that's different, not the actual plasma itself. When it comes to guns, plasma is plasma.

And, contrary to some claims, NE rifles can not fire bursts. The old ones listed in the RGMG have a ROF of "Standard", but they are so large and heavy they must fall under the category of Heavy Energy Weapons, which are single shot only unless specifically noted to be otherwise, (like the NE-200 Machine gun). And while the new "Slim-Line" rifles in DB8: Wave 2 are light enough to be counted as assault rifles, their listed ROF is "Single Shot Only". So any way you cut it, they're not blowing of bursts.

But they are not "ejectors".

And I was referring to the ones that can burst.

You made blanket coverage statments and are trying to cover your butt now.

[Killer Cyborg]

The differences between energy and non-energy weapon use comes down to basically how you target. A laser weapon would likely require you to 'hold' the beam on the target to effect it; hence the inability to fire bursts. Also, there would be no need to account for the drift due to gravity, wind, and other atmospheric conditions. However, being aware of the affects of electromagnetic fields and other energy-based effects would be required.

This is what I'm saying.
Firing a laser from a conventional pistol shouldn't be any different from firing a laser from a laser pistol.
Same with plasma.

Yes and no. Like I said, you need to account for different variables (I personally don't know how you would deal with shooting through a refractive environment, or if using plasma how to counteract a magnetic field nearby.)

There's also some other differences, such as not needing to lead your target and so on, that is not required for firing energy weapons. In game terms, given that using a ballistic weapon appears to be harder, I would offer a half bonus to someone using an energy weapon while posessing the conventional variant WP.

However, your initial point seemed more along the lines of "all plasma weapons are heavy weapons", which seems to be different from the tack you're taking now. In which case, if I misunderstood you, my apologies.

I'm still basically saying the same thing, if you define "plasma weapon" as any weapon that fires plasma.

So far, it seems like all the differences that would make a person require different WPs would still apply for CFT and plasma cartridges... no matter what the gun itself is like.

[Dr. Doom III]

You made blanket coverage statements and are trying to cover your butt now.

Please work on your reading comprehension.

While "Plasma cartridges can be burst fired" is a blanket statement.
It is factually correct.
Can they or can't they? You have already said they can and gave one example of a weapon that does it. There are others also.

Here's what that blanket statement would look like if I said something incorrect.
All Plasma Cartridge weapons can burst fire.
I never said that. That would have been wrong.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm still basically saying the same thing, if you define "plasma weapon" as any weapon that fires plasma.

So far, it seems like all the differences that would make a person require different WPs would still apply for CFT and plasma cartridges... no matter what the gun itself is like.

So the crux of your argument would be that all plasma weapons, regardless of how they are used are 'heavy' ? Thusly we come full circle and the only solution that applies is the simplest:

Unless the fluff text specifically names or otherwise implies what WP or category it falls under, then use the best judgement of the group and yourself as the GM.

Unfortunately, that's what everybody has to do.
I was hoping that they'd flesh out the WP descriptions a bit more in RUE, or even have each weapon state what WP is needed for it.

[Captain Shiva]

Since railguns,being a sort of super machinegun,fire solid projectiles,shouldn't they go under WP:Heavy Weapons?

[Braden Campbell]

[quote="Dr. Doom v.3.2.5]
But they are not "ejectors".
[/quote]

I think doom has hit it. "Ejector" just sounds heavy, but "cartridge rifle" is ambiguous.

For the record: this is only the second time I have agreed with Doom.

[Dead Boy]

You made blanket coverage statements and are trying to cover your butt now.

Please work on your reading comprehension.

While "Plasma cartridges can be burst fired" is a blanket statement.
It is factually correct.
Can they or can't they? You have already said they can and gave one example of a weapon that does it. There are others also.

Here's what that blanket statement would look like if I said something incorrect.
All Plasma Cartridge weapons can burst fire.
I never said that. That would have been wrong.

And Operation: Butt-Cover still goes on.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

I was hoping that they'd flesh out the WP descriptions a bit more in RUE, or even have each weapon state what WP is needed for it.

Oh man, they should have been doing this from the beginning... weapons should list what W.P. is required to use it. Some weapons could have multiple possibilities, too (like flamethrowers should be used with Flamethrower W.P. or Heavy at half bonuses, and junk like that...). It just would have been nice.

[Dr. Doom III]

You made blanket coverage statements and are trying to cover your butt now.

Please work on your reading comprehension.

While "Plasma cartridges can be burst fired" is a blanket statement.
It is factually correct.
Can they or can't they? You have already said they can and gave one example of a weapon that does it. There are others also.

Here's what that blanket statement would look like if I said something incorrect.
All Plasma Cartridge weapons can burst fire.
I never said that. That would have been wrong.

And Operation: Butt-Cover still goes on.

No that's Operation: Deadboy doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Borast]

Something to keep in mind...

Rifts plasma weapons do NOT (typically) fire actual plasma. The only one that does, if memory serves, is the naruni plasma cartridge weapons.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Something to keep in mind...

Rifts plasma weapons do NOT (typically) fire actual plasma. The only one that does, if memory serves, is the naruni plasma cartridge weapons.

where did you get that idea from?

[Borast]

From the weapon descriptions.

And no, I can't quote book, page, and line.

I *believe* it to be in the RMB or SB1 (FAQ section).

[Ice Dragon]

Inspired by Kalinda's question about body armor; I know we've got a WP Heavy Energy Weapons, but what the heck is a heavy energy weapon? I don't think a single weapon in any of the books actually says what class of weapon it's in.

Or was this laid out someplace, and I missed it?

I go with the good old RMB:

Plasma Ejectors and Rail Guns.

Also any energy weapon that weights more than 10kg. Think about todays weapons system - a assault rifle is not a heavy weapon (3.9 - 6kg), a MG or Granade-Launcher is.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Wow, 6 pages on this. Our group never.... ever... had a problem with this.

If it uses energy or "Super" high Tech it falls in the "Energy" catagory.

The main problem here seems to be "E-Heavy"

We always concidered it as Plasma, Particle beam, or Rail gun.

Because these KICK. Where in Laser and Ion do not. Also their useage is different. But we've never had huge arguements. In fact.. I don't think anyone I"ve ever played with was confused by this.

And I agree with a previous poster. "Plasma carterages are just plasma weapons with an ammo gimmic" they're massive bore weapons with a hell of a kick. The fact that the kick comes from individual packed mini eclips (( Plasma carterages)) or one big eclip, means piddly.

and we've never.... EVER... let plasma weapons use burst rules. Ugg. Put down the plasma rifle. Pick up the rail gun. Move along here. *Waves hand*


As for the plasma carterage pistols.. I'd let it go either way. I've never really seen somone with Eheavy that didn't also have Epistol. I mean it could happen. (( Possible)) but does it matter that much? Sometimes things overlap. That's one of those times. Personally I'd say "EHeavy" as that thing's going to kick like a desert eagle on speed, but it's handeled like a pistol, weighs like a pistol, aims like a pistol.. so.. if somone didn't have Eheavy and happened to have one of these I wouldn't freak out and cry.

It's just a game. We play for fun. Rules battles take away fun. Booooooo on rules battles. Fun comes first.

[Thinyser]

Just curious but where in canon does it say that particle beam and plasma weapons have a hell of a kick? Rail guns IIRC say they "kick like a mule" if I remember the exact wording but I dont remember it stating that p-beam and plasma weapons have a strong kick... I would think that p-beam and plasma would have minor recoil more akin to a low powered SDC rifle than to a railgun.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Just curious but where in canon does it say that particle beam and plasma weapons have a hell of a kick? Rail guns IIRC say they "kick like a mule" if I remember the exact wording but I dont remember it stating that p-beam and plasma weapons have a strong kick... I would think that p-beam and plasma would have minor recoil more akin to a low powered SDC rifle than to a railgun.

Not sure to be honest. I've been playing the game since the 90s, just years and years and dozens and dozens of books. I know it's in there some where that lasers don't kick, they go on about that in two or three places. (( There's also threads where people try and argue this into intense detail))

ANd I think in the same places it says that lasers don't kick, it says plasma rifles do.

*Shrugs* Honestly I dont remember where I read "every" Detail after so many years. Just the books I've gotten recently, like Aftermath (( Hardcopy, instead of peekin' at a buddies or reading on the computer)) Dino Swamp, Adventures in Dino swamp, ect....

Not trying to be short or anything, but does it matter? I mean.. "They only kick like an SDC Rifle" or "Hell of a kick" *chuckels* It's flavor. Not a game mechanic.