Please! No more Adventure books!

[Proseksword]

Does anyone else feel this way? As a GM, I hate prewritten adventures! It stunts the imagination, interests only a small portion of players with it's subject matter, and generally is a waste of a hundred pages of paper! I love Palladium products, and I own almost every book for RIFTs (I only am missing Bionics and Dinosaur Swamp, which I will rectify shortly) But I REFUSE to buy these Adventure books, and now they seem to be slowly taking over the release schedule! What was wrong with including adventures in the back of the book like they used to with not only Palladium but lots of different RPGs? I'm not going to say that some people don't enjoy them, and occassionaly I'll skim through them for ideas, but I hate the idea of seeing them being 40% of what Palladium releases, since I usually eagerly await everything they put out.

[Brian Manning]

I think what should be done is a "core" adventure for all new players to try out if they like. Sourcebook 1 has that James T/Hagan adventure with Archie III. That was a lot of fun when we were new players.

When I first got into Robotech, it was the Ghost Ship adventure that really taught us how to play and run Palladium games. It was my first real RPG, so I think new Rifts players would benefit from a good solid initial adventure. Perhaps reprint the Archie III one from SB1. I think anything beyond that is probably unneccessary unless you're trying to give new players a couple of choices.

LANCERS ROCKERS FOR EVER!!

[Jason Richards]

Does anyone else feel this way? As a GM, I hate prewritten adventures! It stunts the imagination, interests only a small portion of players with it's subject matter, and generally is a waste of a hundred pages of paper! I love Palladium products, and I own almost every book for RIFTs (I only am missing Bionics and Dinosaur Swamp, which I will rectify shortly) But I REFUSE to buy these Adventure books, and now they seem to be slowly taking over the release schedule! What was wrong with including adventures in the back of the book like they used to with not only Palladium but lots of different RPGs? I'm not going to say that some people don't enjoy them, and occassionaly I'll skim through them for ideas, but I hate the idea of seeing them being 40% of what Palladium releases, since I usually eagerly await everything they put out.

You do realize that the adventure books contain virtually zero pre-written adventures, right?

[Proseksword]

Does anyone else feel this way? As a GM, I hate prewritten adventures! It stunts the imagination, interests only a small portion of players with it's subject matter, and generally is a waste of a hundred pages of paper! I love Palladium products, and I own almost every book for RIFTs (I only am missing Bionics and Dinosaur Swamp, which I will rectify shortly) But I REFUSE to buy these Adventure books, and now they seem to be slowly taking over the release schedule! What was wrong with including adventures in the back of the book like they used to with not only Palladium but lots of different RPGs? I'm not going to say that some people don't enjoy them, and occassionaly I'll skim through them for ideas, but I hate the idea of seeing them being 40% of what Palladium releases, since I usually eagerly await everything they put out.

You do realize that the adventure books contain virtually zero pre-written adventures, right?

They're even worse! Pre-written NPCs? I don't need a whole book of Pre-written NPCs and a map of a Slum! A D100 chart for random TW devices? talk about superfluous! The only one I own is the one for the Vanguard, because it's not really an adventure book.

[Jason Richards]

Does anyone else feel this way? As a GM, I hate prewritten adventures! It stunts the imagination, interests only a small portion of players with it's subject matter, and generally is a waste of a hundred pages of paper! I love Palladium products, and I own almost every book for RIFTs (I only am missing Bionics and Dinosaur Swamp, which I will rectify shortly) But I REFUSE to buy these Adventure books, and now they seem to be slowly taking over the release schedule! What was wrong with including adventures in the back of the book like they used to with not only Palladium but lots of different RPGs? I'm not going to say that some people don't enjoy them, and occassionaly I'll skim through them for ideas, but I hate the idea of seeing them being 40% of what Palladium releases, since I usually eagerly await everything they put out.

You do realize that the adventure books contain virtually zero pre-written adventures, right?

They're even worse! Pre-written NPCs? I don't need a whole book of Pre-written NPCs and a map of a Slum! A D100 chart for random TW devices? talk about superfluous! The only one I own is the one for the Vanguard, because it's not really an adventure book.

You're making yourself look a bit ridiculous. You don't seem to know what they contain other than one section of the Black Vault.

The books are mostly world information focused on a small area for gaming purposes, presented in greater detail than in most of the World Books. All of them contain basically the sort of material that is in the Vanguard.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

THE ADVENTURE BOOKS DO NOT HAVE PRE-WRITTEN ADVENTURES.

They are simply closer looks at certain subjects that allow the author to get a lot more indept than a world book allows. The currently released ones detail a Chi-Town Burb, the Vanguard and the Black Vault. They are called "Adventure Books" because the material presented within is easy timuli for an adventure. The term also helps break the books into categories: Adventure Book, Sourcebook, World Book.

They don't have adventures in them.

Adventures in Dinosaur Swamp is a full fledged World Book.

I do not know about Merc Adventures, but I doubt it will have prewrites in it.

[Proseksword]

I actually am quite familiar. The first two had a map of the slums outside Chi-Town, and some blurbs about it a la some of the little towns in Vampire Kingdoms and Splynn Dimensional Market, but for a setting utterly unimportant for fleshing out. The second one also focused more on the whole "Tolkeen Retribution Squad" angle, which, frankly, after getting so many NPCs out of Seige on Tolkeen, I don't think I need any more where that is concerned. The Third one a big D100 chart, and a blurb about what the Black Vault is. I already said I'm okay with the fourth one. Did I miss anything major?

I just don't see why we need book after book after book of adventure ideas and pre-generated NPCs.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I actually am quite familiar. The first two had a map of the slums outside Chi-Town, and some blurbs about it a la some of the little towns in Vampire Kingdoms and Splynn Dimensional Market, but for a setting utterly unimportant for fleshing out. The second one also focused more on the whole "Tolkeen Retribution Squad" angle, which, frankly, after getting so many NPCs out of Seige on Tolkeen, I don't think I need any more where that is concerned. The Third one a big D100 chart, and a blurb about what the Black Vault is. I already said I'm okay with the fourth one. Did I miss anything major?

I just don't see why we need book after book after book of adventure ideas and pre-generated NPCs.

The Chi-Town Burbs an unimportant and useless setting for an adventure?

[Vinny]

I like the Hook Line and Sinkers. They give the tools to build a story, you just have to bring everything together.

[RainOfSteel]

I'm not a fan of adventure books, except that as has already been noted, the adventure books in question here are really adventure-idea mini source/setting books.

I'd have them all but for certain economic realities.

I point to Kittenstomp's City Rat Campaign as an excellent example of what the adventure books helped to create.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

personally i like PB version of "Adventure books" background, things to do and a whole lot of room to make it your own.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I'm not a fan of adventure books, except that as has already been noted, the adventure books in question here are really adventure-idea mini source/setting books.

I'd have them all but for certain economic realities.

I point to Kittenstomp's City Rat Campaign as an excellent example of what the adventure books helped to create.

Yes, an awesome campaign through and through. I wish I played in it, and it seems that that campaign would have been dramatically different without the adventure books.

[RainOfSteel]

I just don't see why we need book after book after book of adventure ideas and pre-generated NPCs.

So that, after working 80 hours a week, with two hours of prep time before the weekend's adventure, a GM can pull something together without worrying about game-block ruining the weekend for everyone else?

[Jason Richards]

I actually am quite familiar. The first two had a map of the slums outside Chi-Town, and some blurbs about it a la some of the little towns in Vampire Kingdoms and Splynn Dimensional Market, but for a setting utterly unimportant for fleshing out. The second one also focused more on the whole "Tolkeen Retribution Squad" angle, which, frankly, after getting so many NPCs out of Seige on Tolkeen, I don't think I need any more where that is concerned. The Third one a big D100 chart, and a blurb about what the Black Vault is. I already said I'm okay with the fourth one. Did I miss anything major?

I just don't see why we need book after book after book of adventure ideas and pre-generated NPCs.

Sorry, but you are missing a lot. For starters, you're not familiar with the books or you would have known that they didn't have pre-made adventures in them.

The Adventure Books have introduced full maps of the Chi-Town Burb of Firetown with well over 100 (maybe over 200) places of note, most with adventure ideas and quick-statted N.P.C.'s to interact with. The fact is that the Chi-Town Burbs are one of the most often-requested settings by Rifts fans.

How many N.P.C.'s were in the Adventure Books? There must have been some, but I can't think of any, just quick-stat characters. I'm sure there are some, but they escape me if they exist. Fully statted-out N.P.C.'s is not, in any way, the focus of those books.

The fact is that the fourth one that you're "okay with" is virtually identical in content to the others.

Furthermore, it seems odd that you complain about maps, world information, N.P.C.'s, and adventure hooks. What exactly did you want in there, or in any sourcebook, for that matter?

Although not part of Palladium's modus operandi, books of pre-made adventures have been the staple of table-top RPG's from day one, so it seems like a strange gripe in the first place.

[Proseksword]

Well, all I can say is that obviously I'm the only one who thought very little of these books. I can't say that I've sat and read them cover to cover, I simply picked them up, flipped through them, was thoroughly disinterested every time, and put the thing down. Maybe I should have said "Familiar enough to know what's basically in them". I never thought very well of any of the books with town maps full of the same old "blah blah blah tavern, blah blah blah shop, blah blah blah minor NPC". Hated it in Vampire Kingdoms, hate it in the Adventure books, mostly because the settings are always little ratholes somewhere. To me, RIFTs is all about epic roleplaying, and my PCs go epic places, like Chi-Town, Tolkeen (didn't have a problem with the maps and settings in Siege of Tolkeen for that reason), Atlantis, and Ishpeming. I also dislike little petty details like what street corner has what shop etc being fleshed out, because it elbows in on my GM space, so I tend to ignore it. The Vanguard was actually very different in my mind, because it fleshed out a previously mentioned in passing power that was rumored to have a major effect on the setting and balance of power in North America, but had never been fully explained. Not only did it flesh that organization out well, but it added O.C.C.s which were distinct to it, which is always a plus, in my book. Like I said, apparently, I'm the bizarre one here, but A pair of books about a shantytown and a big D100 TW chart book didn't interest me.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I do not believe that Flipping through constitutes a general knowledge.

And in your original post you were speaking about pre-written adventures that just aren't there. It seems your knowledge on these books is minimal at best.

[Jason Richards]

I never thought very well of any of the books with town maps full of the same old "blah blah blah tavern, blah blah blah shop, blah blah blah minor NPC". Hated it in Vampire Kingdoms, hate it in the Adventure books, mostly because the settings are always little ratholes somewhere.

A valid opinion, but one that puts you in the extreme minority, in my opinion. The most frequently-asked question I get is about maps and such world info. In my experience, gamers eat it up when they are given well thought-out, fleshed-out settings to game in.

[Proseksword]

Oh well. To each his own I guess. I can't help it if that's what I would like, but I guess I'll have to live with the way things are.

[Sureshot]

I have to say I like and use pre written adventures from every rpg company I collect from. I used to do it all from scratch but in the last 2-3 years with more hours at work and a more active social life I use premade ones. It just cuts down on prep time and i can just alter them to suit my needs.

[RainOfSteel]

Well, all I can say is that obviously I'm the only one who thought very little of these books. I can't say that I've sat and read them cover to cover, I simply picked them up, flipped through them, was thoroughly disinterested every time, and put the thing down.

Many here swear Rifts:Australia ranks as one of the best world books ever.

But you know, the same thing you describe above happens to me every time I pick the book up.

Nevertheless, this does not compel me to open up an uninformed critique on the book.

Maybe I should have said "Familiar enough to know what's basically in them".

It seems closer to, "Familiar enough to know some parts of them."

I never thought very well of any of the books with town maps full of the same old "blah blah blah tavern, blah blah blah shop, blah blah blah minor NPC". Hated it in Vampire Kingdoms, hate it in the Adventure books, mostly because the settings are always little ratholes somewhere. To me, RIFTs is all about epic roleplaying, and my PCs go epic places, like Chi-Town, Tolkeen (didn't have a problem with the maps and settings in Siege of Tolkeen for that reason), Atlantis, and Ishpeming.

So, basically, you like the book if it is about somewhere or something you're interested in. Naturally enough, this is understandable. But it doesn't necessarily validate your opinion as the general case for all.

I also dislike little petty details like what street corner has what shop etc being fleshed out, because it elbows in on my GM space, so I tend to ignore it.

I can't see how it elbows in on your GM space since you have the confidence to ignore it and do your own thing.

[RainOfSteel]

I have to say I like and use pre written adventures from every rpg company I collect from. I used to do it all from scratch but in the last 2-3 years with more hours at work and a more active social life I use premade ones. It just cuts down on prep time and i can just alter them to suit my needs.

There are vast numbers of gamers in exactly this position.

[Kalinda]

I just don't see why we need book after book after book of adventure ideas and pre-generated NPCs.

So that, after working 80 hours a week, with two hours of prep time before the weekend's adventure, a GM can pull something together without worrying about game-block ruining the weekend for everyone else?

Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner!


Personally I find that they inspire me and get the creative juices flowing when I may otherwise be too tired to think of anything.

As for the descriptions of stores and such, I'm great at coming up with stuff like that 'off the cuff', but that doesn't mean I don't like having some 'pre-made' stores, taverns, and other places of interest to help when it's been a long week.

[grandmaster z0b]

I too love wrighting adventures with well detailed maps and NPCs, but unfortunately don't have the time to do this every week, so even if I change them significantly I still like to use pre-made adventures and wish there were more published by PB.

I also like detailed settings so I like the Burb books, however I must say I'm not all too keen on the Black Vault, and although I don't own it myself I do remember quite a few people saying they didn't like it on these boards when it first came out. Too many semi-useless TW decives, not enough info.

I wish they had just published a big Firetown Burbs book instead of 4 that are smaller than a typical Rifter.

I think I might submit some of my old adventures for the Rifter or something, as we never seem to have enough but there must be heaps of GMs out there doing it.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

Personally, I don't like pre-made NPCs, adventures, or even maps and locations. I like to do everything from scratch, because not only does that insure my familiarity with the material I'm GMing, but also assures a player won't pull something like, "No, this item is for sale here!" I love having my players who read every book front-to-back and metagame hard walk into Kingsdale and find it's not the KD of Juicer Uprising... but the Kingsdale of my own design.

On the other hand, not everyone has the same amount of spare time as my sorry ass. And those are people who can use adventure books for lots of pre-made, well-written, and overall enjoyable material. Although I'd certainly like to see less books like Chi-Town 'Burbs come out before Australia 2, Iknow I'm probably in the minority.

[Drakenred®™©]

but also assures a player won't pull something like, "No, this item is for sale here!".

the ONLY time my group pulled that stunt, they found the shop demolished, and a truly ludicrus bounty on their heads.

Its a quick object lesson in when you should NOT meta game.

[TechnoGothic]

as long as the burbs look like the pictures from Rifts Ultimate and not a railroad town from the 1900s, its cool...

cause the "burbs" shown in ultimate looks like a normal city...and not slums...

[Zer0 Kay]

Does anyone else feel this way? As a GM, I hate prewritten adventures! It stunts the imagination, interests only a small portion of players with it's subject matter, and generally is a waste of a hundred pages of paper! I love Palladium products, and I own almost every book for RIFTs (I only am missing Bionics and Dinosaur Swamp, which I will rectify shortly) But I REFUSE to buy these Adventure books, and now they seem to be slowly taking over the release schedule! What was wrong with including adventures in the back of the book like they used to with not only Palladium but lots of different RPGs? I'm not going to say that some people don't enjoy them, and occassionaly I'll skim through them for ideas, but I hate the idea of seeing them being 40% of what Palladium releases, since I usually eagerly await everything they put out.

Bwahahahaha. All Palladium Books are Rifts Books

Oh and yeah I don't like the Adventure Books either. Include area specific adventures in the other books. Now the HL&Ss I liked, seems like they've gone away from that too.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think what should be done is a "core" adventure for all new players to try out if they like. Sourcebook 1 has that James T/Hagan adventure with Archie III. That was a lot of fun when we were new players.

When I first got into Robotech, it was the Ghost Ship adventure that really taught us how to play and run Palladium games. It was my first real RPG, so I think new Rifts players would benefit from a good solid initial adventure. Perhaps reprint the Archie III one from SB1. I think anything beyond that is probably unneccessary unless you're trying to give new players a couple of choices.

LANCERS ROCKERS FOR EVER!!

Lancers

PFRPG used to have the Tomb of Gerseidi(?) in the main book, that was real fun... and profitable.

[Nxla666]

WOW, somebody just picked a topic and opened his mouth.

My advice, be more informed next time you want to post a sweeping statement like that.

If you dont think they are any good then, yeah, do not buy them.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I think what should be done is a "core" adventure for all new players to try out if they like. Sourcebook 1 has that James T/Hagan adventure with Archie III. That was a lot of fun when we were new players.

When I first got into Robotech, it was the Ghost Ship adventure that really taught us how to play and run Palladium games. It was my first real RPG, so I think new Rifts players would benefit from a good solid initial adventure. Perhaps reprint the Archie III one from SB1. I think anything beyond that is probably unneccessary unless you're trying to give new players a couple of choices.

LANCERS ROCKERS FOR EVER!!

Lancers

PFRPG used to have the Tomb of Gerseidi(?) in the main book, that was real fun... and profitable.

Lancer's rockets rock and the equipment just rocked and the sonic invid how could you not like that adventure

[Nxla666]

The only reason I have not BURNED that horrid book is because I have a complete collection.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think what should be done is a "core" adventure for all new players to try out if they like. Sourcebook 1 has that James T/Hagan adventure with Archie III. That was a lot of fun when we were new players.

When I first got into Robotech, it was the Ghost Ship adventure that really taught us how to play and run Palladium games. It was my first real RPG, so I think new Rifts players would benefit from a good solid initial adventure. Perhaps reprint the Archie III one from SB1. I think anything beyond that is probably unneccessary unless you're trying to give new players a couple of choices.

LANCERS ROCKERS FOR EVER!!

Lancers

PFRPG used to have the Tomb of Gerseidi(?) in the main book, that was real fun... and profitable.

Lancer's rockets rock and the equipment just rocked and the sonic invid how could you not like that adventure

If only font size was able to chang the size of emotes Oh and it's Lancer's Rockers not rockets. I'll tell you where you can stick that sonic invid.....

[Zer0 Kay]

WOW, somebody just picked a topic and opened his mouth.

My advice, be more informed next time you want to post a sweeping statement like that.

If you dont think they are any good then, yeah, do not buy them.

To whom are you speaking to?

[Proseksword]

Hey, I'm not upset. I was asking if other people agreed with me, and they obviously don't. I got an answer to the question I had.

[Brian Manning]

If only font size was able to chang the size of emotes Oh and it's Lancer's Rockers not rockets. I'll tell you where you can stick that sonic invid.....

C'mon man, you mean you didn't want a (wearable) drumset that could equal the damage from the mighty MacII? ROCK!!

I gotta say, seriously, that was the weakest adventure book, and honestly that's what drove our group to move on and make our own campaigns instead of just a bunch of little border skirmish type play sessions. It was like removing the RPG training wheels.

Then we started playing Heroes Unlimited and Rifts (although we did play the SB1 adventure which was a blast).

[Zer0 Kay]

If only font size was able to chang the size of emotes Oh and it's Lancer's Rockers not rockets. I'll tell you where you can stick that sonic invid.....

C'mon man, you mean you didn't want a (wearable) drumset that could equal the damage from the mighty MacII? ROCK!!

I gotta say, seriously, that was the weakest adventure book, and honestly that's what drove our group to move on and make our own campaigns instead of just a bunch of little border skirmish type play sessions. It was like removing the RPG training wheels.

Then we started playing Heroes Unlimited and Rifts (although we did play the SB1 adventure which was a blast).

Hmm I started playing RT then went to Mechanoids then PFRPG then Recon, then TMNT, then Rifts using EVERYTHING.

I did like the drumset only because of it's damage capacity. But it was still stupid looking Why would a set be necessary when the set is obviously one of the electric drumsets and it can be synthesised without having to bring out the REF Marching Band.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

If only font size was able to chang the size of emotes Oh and it's Lancer's Rockers not rockets. I'll tell you where you can stick that sonic invid.....

C'mon man, you mean you didn't want a (wearable) drumset that could equal the damage from the mighty MacII? ROCK!!

I gotta say, seriously, that was the weakest adventure book, and honestly that's what drove our group to move on and make our own campaigns instead of just a bunch of little border skirmish type play sessions. It was like removing the RPG training wheels.

Then we started playing Heroes Unlimited and Rifts (although we did play the SB1 adventure which was a blast).

Hmm I started playing RT then went to Mechanoids then PFRPG then Recon, then TMNT, then Rifts using EVERYTHING.

I did like the drumset only because of it's damage capacity. But it was still stupid looking Why would a set be necessary when the set is obviously one of the electric drumsets and it can be synthesised without having to bring out the REF Marching Band.

pfft