New TW devices allow non Mage/Psychics to activate

[Thinyser]

Under #10 P.P.E. Storage on page 131 in RUE it states

Moreover, if the device itself is able to store its own P.P.E., the device can be made to function for a non-psychic/non-mage, If the Techno-Wizard wants it to, at no additional cost.

[Dr. Doom III]

Under #10 P.P.E. Storage on page 131 in RUE it states

Moreover, if the device itself is able to store its own P.P.E., the device can be made to function for a non-psychic/non-page, If the Techno-Wizard wants it to, at no additional cost.

Really all it's doing is making it so that TWs can make weapons usable by anyone. It doesn't mean that any weapon can be used by anyone now. The ones that couldn't still can't.

Of course it cheapens the SA1 Manoan weapons.

[Killer Cyborg]

It wasn't that way before, but it's that way now.
I don't mind either way.

[Thinyser]

I thought anyone that had an understanding of how TW weapons worked and had ample PPE or ISP to activate them could use them (unless otherwise stated for a specific device).

Nope that was a raging debate about who could and couldnt and same thing for the PPE clip style weapons....I believe the intent was (all along) that if it has its own PPE storage (PPE clip) then it was intended to be used by mundane characters but alas we will never know. I am just glad that KS finally did spell it out in black and white.

[Killer Cyborg]

I thought anyone that had an understanding of how TW weapons worked and had ample PPE or ISP to activate them could use them (unless otherwise stated for a specific device).

Nope that was a raging debate about who could and couldnt and same thing for the PPE clip style weapons....I believe the intent was (all along) that if it has its own PPE storage (PPE clip) then it was intended to be used by mundane characters but alas we will never know. I am just glad that KS finally did spell it out in black and white.

Not to start this up again, but....
Rifts, p. 91
"A person without magic abilities (or psionic when applicable) can not use a techno-wizard device even if fully charged."

TW weapons have, since day one, had their own PPE storage built into them. Mundanes could still not use them, even if fully charged.

[demos606]

From the previews, its changed more than that even. One of the previews had a clarification of what constitutes high PPE to allow innate use of TW devices by mundane characters.

[Killer Cyborg]

So in other words you had to be psi or magic powered (even just minor) to use any TW device. Now the rule is changed to allow TW equipment that is PPE battery powered but physically activated to be used by anyone. I find that a bit better. Afterall, if you convert a rifle over and power it with PPE charged clips, shouldn't anyone be able to pull the trigger?

The way I looked at it before is that there is more to triggering a TW device than pulling a trigger. You have to pull the trigger AND flow some energy through the device (either from you or from the device itself) in order to activate it.
This makes sense.

But it also makes sense to just have the devices work from a trigger alone, which is why I don't have a problem with the change.

[cornholioprime]

So in other words you had to be psi or magic powered (even just minor) to use any TW device. Now the rule is changed to allow TW equipment that is PPE battery powered but physically activated to be used by anyone. I find that a bit better. Afterall, if you convert a rifle over and power it with PPE charged clips, shouldn't anyone be able to pull the trigger?

The way I looked at it before is that there is more to triggering a TW device than pulling a trigger. You have to pull the trigger AND flow some energy through the device (either from you or from the device itself) in order to activate it.
This makes sense.

But it also makes sense to just have the devices work from a trigger alone, which is why I don't have a problem with the change.

Agreed.

[Thinyser]

So in other words you had to be psi or magic powered (even just minor) to use any TW device. Now the rule is changed to allow TW equipment that is PPE battery powered but physically activated to be used by anyone. I find that a bit better. Afterall, if you convert a rifle over and power it with PPE charged clips, shouldn't anyone be able to pull the trigger?

The way I looked at it before is that there is more to triggering a TW device than pulling a trigger. You have to pull the trigger AND flow some energy through the device (either from you or from the device itself) in order to activate it.
This makes sense.

But it also makes sense to just have the devices work from a trigger alone, which is why I don't have a problem with the change.

Which is why palladium didnt feel the need to explain that the PPE clip weapons of old were not only for the Psychics and Mages.

[RainOfSteel]

I voted Other.

My explanation:

1) RMB: Only men of magic could use TW-devices. Clearly stated in the rules.

2) URMB: TW's may make TW-devices that non-men of magic may use. However, this does not mean that TW's make all TW-devices (or even many) in this manner.

[RainOfSteel]

This question arose from the reference in the rules given above, so I'm posting it here, even if it is not exactly on topic.

Did anyone notice that p.131 col.2 para.4 under "10. P.P.E. Storage." mentions two spells, Energy Sphere and Talisman, that are not actually in RUE?

[Mack]

Hmm, not too crazy about the rule. IMHO, TW items should be limited to just magic/psi characters, but I can live with the new wording. At least it leaves it open for a GM to say "Nope, looks like none of the TWizards around here build stuff for mundanes..."

[Thinyser]

I guess I put up good choices....the votes are spread fairly evenly I would say.....but we need some more responses to get a better feel.












That Bolding was subliminal messiging to all that read this that they should vote (yes I know its not subliminal if you can sense it)

[Kalinda]

Feel... Strangely... Compelled... To... Answer...Poll...






If it's a PPE clip weapon it can be used by a mundane, otherwise only those with significant amounts of PPE (10 or more, or 20 ISP) can use the device.

PPE rule is from Merc Ops, Page 138. the bit about PPE weapons is a house rule.

[Drakenred®™©]

Hmm, not too crazy about the rule. IMHO, TW items should be limited to just magic/psi characters, but I can live with the new wording. At least it leaves it open for a GM to say "Nope, looks like none of the TWizards around here build stuff for mundanes..."

Well I think it more or less rationalises things so that you dont have Item A being Mage only, Item B being Mage-Psi only and Item C being something anyone can use with no real ryme or reason.

[Thinyser]

I personally do not see this as changing anything, mearly it is a very specific clerification to end debates.

Mundanes can not use all TW Devices. Only ones made specifically to allow it. Which means its going to have a PPE Clip to supply the power.

Not necessairly a PPE clip but rather a design that allows a mundain to activate the release of the PPE mechanically. A PPE clip would also allow a mundain to reload the item so long as he had prechared clips.

Gun #1 has no trigger and no PPE clip....it has to be a Mage or Psichic to both load and discharge the weapon. *EDIT* this type also has no storage, the mage/psychic must pump PPE in for each blast/activation.

Gun #1.5 has no trigger and no PPE clip....it has to be a Mage or Psichic to both load and discharge the weapon but this weapon can store PPE to be later discharged by a mage/psychic.

Gun #2 has a trigger but no PPE clip...anybody can discharge the weapon but only a mage or psychic can reload it.

Gun #3 has a trigger and uses PPE clips...anybody can discharge the weapon and slap a new clip in just like a normal weapon...PPE clips still have to be charged by a mage or psychic.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

I very strongly dislike this, and certainly plan on not using it in my games. I really like Techno-Wizardry, and so do my players. It was one of the big reasons to pick a mage; you could use the stuff, and it's fantastic, especially when you're using high P.P.E. spells because it will cast things like Shockwave in one action (we use P.P.E. channelling, but even under the new spellcasting rules, it's still faster). Now, you can have a 'Borg rolling around blasting people with Magic Net guns. I dunno, it just doesn't seem right to me. It also takes away one of the big advantages mages had, at least partially (mundanes still can't charge the items).

[Thinyser]

oops forgot that some weapons require PPE to be pumped in for each blast and some can store PPE for later use. Edited above post to reflect this.

[Thinyser]

The item still has to be modified to allow a Mundane to activate it.

And even if every character in the game could aquire simple TW devices easily, it hardly would take away from casters who are easily the most powerful OCC/RCCs in RIFTS.

But since TW devices are NOT easily obtained, I do not see how this could be a problem.

Personally I always saw the fact that casters could use ANY spell, regardless of level, as more of a problem. Especially when it involved TW-Wizards.

One could debate the rarity of TW items considering all the Stormspire and Tolkeen Items that would be available...not to mention now with RUE any and all TW can make unique Items....there is problably a fair number that simply sit around and make items to sell rather than adventuring.

[Rimmerdal]

I'd say I agree with it..but for different reasons..heres how I'd work it

IF your Psychic or Capable of learning magic/Possess PPE your good for TW items.

Limitations: If your PPE we're reduced out in its use you risk death.
If save vs.. Death, be stunned as if a Boxer hit you with a Right Cross if not go into coma..

in short make magic dangerous for mundanes to use..

[Thinyser]

I'd say I agree with it..but for different reasons..heres how I'd work it

IF your Psychic or Capable of learning magic/Possess PPE your good for TW items.

Limitations: If your PPE we're reduced out in its use you risk death.
If save vs.. Death, be stunned as if a Boxer hit you with a Right Cross if not go into coma..

in short make magic dangerous for mundanes to use..

You might be missing the point of the new rule...it states that IF the item has P.P.E. storage built in, AND the bulider of the device wants it to, then the device can be USED by ANYBODY including people with little or no P.P.E. you just pull the trigger and it uses the stored magical energy not your own.

With the storage built in there would be no need to dump your own P.P.E. into the device and as such no risk of knockout or coma.

[Rimmerdal]

You might be missing the point of the new rule...it states that IF the item has P.P.E. storage built in, AND the bulider of the device wants it to, then the device can be USED by ANYBODY including people with little or no P.P.E. you just pull the trigger and it uses the stored magical energy not your own.

With the storage built in there would be no need to dump your own P.P.E. into the device and as such no risk of knockout or coma.

I assume that for guns or items with triggers..that Don't store energy. As I said if your gonna use magic there are some risks...still I haven't gotten the book quite yet.

TW item with out a trigger can only be used Magic and Psi-Characters..

but for those that store there own energy the new rule works quite well. and Yes I did mis-type there...so for clarity..

TW Gun, and items with triggers with there own power I would use the new rule.

(Just got out of Kitchen so my mind is little 'blah'....

[Metathiax]

Don't forget the new lightblade sword that uses the life force of the wielder instead of PPE, so that anyone can use it. As for the other weapons if the creator designed it as such and it has a storage mechanism PPE clip (which originated in South America 1 btw) or battery or otherwise they can't use it. The most likely came up with this so that the warriors of tolkeen could use TW devices to defend it.

On a similar topic what do people think about the new Techno Wizard casting rules? I say it is about time.

[Thinyser]

Don't forget the new lightblade sword that uses the life force of the wielder instead of PPE, so that anyone can use it. As for the other weapons if the creator designed it as such and it has a storage mechanism PPE clip (which originated in South America 1 btw) or battery or otherwise they can't use it. The most likely came up with this so that the warriors of tolkeen could use TW devices to defend it.

On a similar topic what do people think about the new Techno Wizard casting rules? I say it is about time.

Yeah the TW lightblade is kinda odd. 30 SDC or 15 HP for a 1d4x10 MDC (double against vamps and creatures of darkness) sword that last 5 minutes....not many people would willingly sacrifice that much of their own life force to power a sword for 5 minutes, especially when the sacrificed life does not heal with magic or psionics and must heal naturally.

The new casting rules for TWs rock!

[Thinyser]

I would have put my vote under should have always been, but I'm kinda particular on my oppinoin of non-psikers & non-mages using TW stuff.

Here's my general opinion:
If the individual in question is either A. devoid of P.P.E., which I don't think is possible in Rifts. or B. doesn't have enough P.P.E, then s/he can not
activate said TW item and therefore, it's magic does not work.

As I said to someone several posts back...

You might be missing the point of the new rule...it states that IF the item has P.P.E. storage built in, AND the bulider of the device wants it to (ie builds a mechinical trigger into it), then the device can be USED by ANYBODY, including people with little or no P.P.E. You just pull the trigger and it uses the stored magical energy not your own.

[grandmaster z0b]

What are the new TW spell casting rules?

[Thinyser]

What are the new TW spell casting rules?

the TW uses a "focus Item" that allows them to "whisper a few words" and "cast" the spell through the focus item without it be degraded to half effectivness...the focus item must "make sense" for the spell to be cast without the half effectivness...like Binoculars to focus "see the invisable" or a pistol for "fire bolt" etc. (GM's discression on what "Makes sense")