Vagabond and HTH

[Athos]

Good job Skiles99!!!

The arguments in favor of seemed to be the most logical, but I think you just sealed the deal with proof.

[Skiles99]

No, not until I see an NPC vagabond that has a hand to hand skill. I'm not going to look, so it's up to those wish to prove it to do so.

Please reference page 100 of "Rifts Sourcebook Two: The Mechanoids", and specifically the entry for M'ltin. She's listed as a 5th level Vagabond and she's trained in Hand to Hand Expert.

Update: See "Coalition Wars: Siege on Tolkeen 1" page 126 for Old Matt, a 10th level "Farmer/Vagabond" with Hand to Hand: Basic...
...and also "Coalition Wars: Siege on Tolkeen 6" page 128 for Gordo, a 7th level Vagabond with Hand to Hand: Basic.

[Svartalf]

No, not until I see an NPC vagabond that has a hand to hand skill. I'm not going to look, so it's up to those wish to prove it to do so.

Please reference page 100 of "Rifts Sourcebook Two: The Mechanoids", and specifically the entry for M'ltin. She's listed as a 5th level Vagabond and she's trained in Hand to Hand Expert.

Alright Skiles, Kneel while I dub you a Knight of the Relevant Obscure Reference.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Wasn't it mentioned someplace that NPCs dont always follow the strict rules for character creation? I think in the FAQs. Or maybe one of the books. I dont remember.

[Skiles99]

Wasn't it mentioned someplace that NPCs dont always follow the strict rules for character creation? I think in the FAQs. Or maybe one of the books. I dont remember.

Aye. I think it was covered in the old FAQ when someone asked why a lot of the NPCs didn't get the two attacks for living. Recent Palladium publications seem to have corrected this and given newly published NPCs the correct number of attacks, as well as sticking closer to their rules in other ways or at least mentioning when there's something special about an NPC empowering them to break the rules.

To make the purpose of my posts clear, Tyciol wanted published NPC Vagabonds with hand to hand skills. I've given him three in three different books. And regardless of what Palladium says to justify their errors, we need to get our rules precedents from somewhere.

[MADMANMIKE]

..Do you have any knowledge of science? Or perhapse the basic principles of logical deduction?

-Mike >8O

uh, you dont even know me, so you can shut your ass up. I was being civil, and you choose to insult me? Wow, you lose. gg noob.

..It's not an insult, it's a simple question. The basic tenant of Science is that nothing can be ruled out with out proof. If you cannot prove it does not exist, than you cannot rule it's existance out.

..The book does not specify that they cannot have the skill, so there is no evidence to back up the notion that they can't. Saying that they can't have it because it doesn't say they can, is like saying there's no such place as Bangladesh because you've never been there. Logically, it's absurd.

..What the heck does gg noob mean?

-Mike >8]

[Prettz]

..Do you have any knowledge of science? Or perhapse the basic principles of logical deduction?

-Mike >8O

uh, you dont even know me, so you can shut your ass up. I was being civil, and you choose to insult me? Wow, you lose. gg noob.

You both need to cool it.

[Vrykolas2k]

I would easily buy into the theory that leaving out HtH progression on the vagabond was an oversight/edit related mistake. Check out the HtH progression for the blood druid in England (pg. 146).

Why would I pay an extra skill selection to "upgrade" from HtH assassin to HtH expert???

I remember seeing this sort of error in at least two other places recently. Clearly these things happen. Taking the rules as printed purely at face value is a mistake! I believe that it only makes sense that vagabonds may take at least HtH basic. Kev has stated throughout his publications that the PCs in Rifts are to be heroes that help make the world a better place. Let's face it, it's hard/nigh impossible to do that without at least HtH Basic...

Also I've yet to see any other PC OCC/RCC that does not allow you to take at least HtH Basic. Show me that, and I'll be more willing to change my mind...

Well, there's the Dakini in the Pantheons book, but mostly I agree with you... that's just the only example I can come up with, since my wife has decided to play on.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Also I've yet to see any other PC OCC/RCC that does not allow you to take at least HtH Basic. Show me that, and I'll be more willing to change my mind...

I was about to whip out the Capitalist Entrepenuer from mystic China, but it seems they start with HtH Basic. And they can upgrade to Commando? Am I reading this right? That's hardcore for a desk jockey.

[Skiles99]

Also I've yet to see any other PC OCC/RCC that does not allow you to take at least HtH Basic. Show me that, and I'll be more willing to change my mind...

I was about to whip out the Capitalist Entrepenuer from mystic China, but it seems they start with HtH Basic. And they can upgrade to Commando? Am I reading this right? That's hardcore for a desk jockey.

You are reading it right, but Mystic China is primarily a supplement to Ninjas and Superspies. There Hand to Hand: Expert is called Expert Hand to Hand Commando. So while they get Commando HtH, it's not the one from Rifts and Chaos Earth.

[Svartalf]

Also I've yet to see any other PC OCC/RCC that does not allow you to take at least HtH Basic. Show me that, and I'll be more willing to change my mind...

I was about to whip out the Capitalist Entrepenuer from mystic China, but it seems they start with HtH Basic. And they can upgrade to Commando? Am I reading this right? That's hardcore for a desk jockey.

Fwankly, trying to extapolate that kind of data from N&SS to Rifts is just a mistake.

In N&SS, Commando is still a quickie, lite MA form, as compared to the superior full fledged forms available to the serious student, while in Rifts, Commando is a sort of super combat training, even superior to most martial arts.

[MADMANMIKE]

I was about to whip out the Capitalist Entrepenuer from mystic China, but it seems they start with HtH Basic. And they can upgrade to Commando? Am I reading this right? That's hardcore for a desk jockey.

..DISCLAIMER: For Prettz's sake, I'm not trying to be insulting here, nor am I upset.

..I find this statement curious, and a bit insulting. It's really indicitive of the opinion of the Vagabond class; I was just wanting to understand what the source of your enmity towards non-jock personality types is. The entrepenuer class says nothing about being a desk jockey. Did you ever see the movie Daylight? The character played by Viggo Mortensen was a prime example of the Capitalist Entrepenuer class... Richard Branson is a good example of the same as well...

-Mike >8]

[Vrykolas2k]

Well, there's the Dakini in the Pantheons book, but mostly I agree with you... that's just the only example I can come up with, since my wife has decided to play on.

Okay I never bothered getting that book. So are they complete non-combatants then?

Not at all, they're just an optional RCC that happens to not have a hand to hand skill. In fact those babes are very... combative, yes...

[Skiles99]

Not at all, they're just an optional RCC that happens to not have a hand to hand skill. In fact those babes are very... combative, yes...

So do they just not start with it, or can they never ever take it? Ley line walkers don't start with HtH either, but they can take it.

Frankly the Dakini is a horribly written R.C.C. as presented in Pantheons of the Megaverse. It gives them certain skills at specific percentages, certain combat bonuses, and their stats, that's it. No advancement rules, or rules for them selecting new skills or anything that might be...helpful in that regard.
To indulge in pure speculation, my guess is that the Dakini were written up purely as a monster race, and someone decided they'd make a great R.C.C. too, they just neglected to add any rules that would make them particularly viable in the long run. In the short term though, they're pretty deadly.
Anyway, to go strictly by their write up, no rules are given for the Dakini to select a Hand to Hand, or any other skill beyond those they start with. Granted at first level, or as a strictly monster race, they hardly need one.

[Dr. Doom III]

Congratulations Skiles99, unlike the others here, you have come with an example, as I have requested. Thus, you have won the argument.

As for the others, be glad he did, as without examples, I am right.

LOL!

[Dave the dragon]

The misunderstanding is that vagabonds are unskilled. It doesnt mean they are without skills, just that they havent mastered a profession enough to be an OCC. Vagabond is my default for every "special case" character that my group wants to play. The freedom to piece together different skills and abilities lets them make a knock off of whatever anime show they watched that week.

[MADMANMIKE]

The misunderstanding is that vagabonds are unskilled. It doesnt mean they are without skills, just that they havent mastered a profession enough to be an OCC. Vagabond is my default for every "special case" character that my group wants to play. The freedom to piece together different skills and abilities lets them make a knock off of whatever anime show they watched that week.

..Interesting. I've found the Rogue Scientist and Rogue Scholar work best for that, as the skill restrictions are nearly as miniscule and yet there are fair bonuses for most.

..The vagabond is a unique challenge and covers the grit of the Rifts world, not the over resourced easy to define and play adventurer, but the ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances.

-Mike >8]

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

I was about to whip out the Capitalist Entrepenuer from mystic China, but it seems they start with HtH Basic. And they can upgrade to Commando? Am I reading this right? That's hardcore for a desk jockey.

..I find this statement curious, and a bit insulting. It's really indicitive of the opinion of the Vagabond class; I was just wanting to understand what the source of your enmity towards non-jock personality types is. The entrepenuer class says nothing about being a desk jockey. Did you ever see the movie Daylight? The character played by Viggo Mortensen was a prime example of the Capitalist Entrepenuer class... Richard Branson is a good example of the same as well...

-Mike >8]

Of course I mean no disrespect to any and all Capitalists out there. When i think of that particular class, I think of the movie Wall Street or the Daniel Clamp character from Gremlins 2.
And when i think of the Vagabond OCC, i am reminded of the local crackhead. I have no enmity for "non-jock personality types" (as if personality and OCC have anything to do with each other).
As far as game rules go, I calls it like I sees it. unlike alot of other people, I don't hand out free stuff because the character "should have" this or that. Maybe someone thinks that a Vagabond should start out with a rune weapon, or a master psychic should get paired firearms. That doesn't mean its time to rewrite the books.
the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.

[Athos]

the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.

Is it stupid because you have been proven wrong through both logic and examples from the books?

[Dr. Doom III]

the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.

You're right.
They don't get it automatically but they can choose it.
Look at the book, yes they can. There it is, in black and white.

[Killer Cyborg]

[quote="RoadWarriorFWaNK]
the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.[/quote]

No, it isn't... that's the problem.
They left out any rules one way or the other regarding vagabonds getting HTH skills.

The only evidence in black and white are the NPC vagabonds that DO have HTH skills.
That's a pretty sure indication that they can get them.

[Vrykolas2k]

[quote="RoadWarriorFWaNK
the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.

No, it isn't... that's the problem.
They left out any rules one way or the other regarding vagabonds getting HTH skills.

The only evidence in black and white are the NPC vagabonds that DO have HTH skills.
That's a pretty sure indication that they can get them.[/quote]


Not really, but let's just go with it lol.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

the point of this stupid thread was 'Do vagabonds get hth skills'. Looking at the book, no they don't. There it is, in black and white.

Is it stupid because you have been proven wrong through both logic and examples from the books?

I have been proven wrong on nothing.

[Dr. Doom III]

I have been proven wrong on nothing.

Hand to hand skills are physical skills.
None of the hand to hand skills are listed where it says what skills you can't choose.

Case closed.
Again.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

okay, so hand to hand skills are exactly like other physical skills?
Awesome. My next character is going to have HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin AND Commando. All at the same time! After all, the book doesn't say I *can't* do it, so I must be able to, right?
Wow, that will be the best. Thank you Dr. Doom for showing me the truth.

[Dustin Fireblade]

okay, so hand to hand skills are exactly like other physical skills?
Awesome. My next character is going to have HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin AND Commando. All at the same time! After all, the book doesn't say I *can't* do it, so I must be able to, right?
Wow, that will be the best. Thank you Dr. Doom for showing me the truth.

Except for that little blurb there at the top of the Physical skills section in the RMB page 28 that says "specific skill may only be chosen once, including hand to ahnd skills" so yeah the book says you cant do that.

[MADMANMIKE]

..The only place I know of where multiple hand to hand forms are addressed is in Ninjas & Superspies, and there you can take more than one, but the bonuses do not stack.

..So go ahead and waste all of your characters skills taking multiple hand to hands. What does that prove? Other than you seem unable to admit when you're wrong....



-Mike >8]

[Dave the dragon]

okay, so hand to hand skills are exactly like other physical skills?
Awesome. My next character is going to have HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin AND Commando. All at the same time! After all, the book doesn't say I *can't* do it, so I must be able to, right?
Wow, that will be the best. Thank you Dr. Doom for showing me the truth.

Actually, the book does say you cant do that, in the combat section of the basic book. Doesnt anyone read cover to cover anymore? most of these posts are answered in the print of the book. HTH skills ARE physical skills, and have been since the first printing. And they still are listed as such in the GMG. Even before rifts, HTH basic was ALWAYS listed as a physical skill available in the secondary skills list. Vagabonds are not specifically restricted, therefor they can get a HTH. (house rule, I dont let them have more than basic, unless its necessary for a character concept) I use other established lists when one isnt presented, so the costs would be the same as for the Line Walker.

[Dr. Doom III]

okay, so hand to hand skills are exactly like other physical skills?
Awesome. My next character is going to have HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin AND Commando. All at the same time! After all, the book doesn't say I *can't* do it, so I must be able to, right?
Wow, that will be the best. Thank you Dr. Doom for showing me the truth.

Did Doom say exactly like?
Nope.

Does that change the fact that they are Physical skills and the only ones a Vagabond can't take are acrobatics, gymnastics and wrestling?
Nope.

Thanks for playing.

[Dr. Doom III]

Doom, Hand to Hand limitations are rarely, if ever (I can't remember seeing it) listed under physical skill selections. In nearly every case, they are listed at the bottom of the OCC skills. Since the vagabond doesn't list it either way, and they start with no hand to hand, and wouldn't have a likely means of starting out with one, I doubt they'd be able to select one.

So they left out an irrelevant passage to save space.
Doesn't change anything.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

i wonder when this thread turned from a civil discussion on vagabonds to a gang-bang flame-fest against me. I have not insulted one person, only stated my arguments clearly and backed up by the text. And yet every geek and their cat comes out of the woodwork to tell me that I am stupid and their house rules are canon.
and here I am, floating above it all.
So tell me who really is the sore loser?

[Killer Cyborg]

i wonder when this thread turned from a civil discussion on vagabonds to a gang-bang flame-fest against me. I have not insulted one person, only stated my arguments clearly and backed up by the text. And yet every geek and their cat comes out of the woodwork to tell me that I am stupid and their house rules are canon.
and here I am, floating above it all.
So tell me who really is the sore loser?

Basically, you are.
1. You've had an attitude since you showed up here.
2. You keep calling everybody wrong and claiming that you win because the text supports you.
3. When, in fact, the text does not support you in any way, shape or form.
It takes more to intelligently debate things that to simply show up and declare that you are right because "it is there in black and white" when you don't cite where the text IS that supposedly supports you, and when the text does nothing at all to support your cause.

Basically, you've wandered into a boxing match and claimed victory before setting foot into the ring, much less throwing a decent punch.
Then gotten sore when people point out that you don't have any basis for your claims.

[Killer Cyborg]

You know... while I do admit N&SS contradicts it... and there's probably a blurb somewhere in Rifts that contradicts it too... it would be very cool if you could select as many hand to hand skills as you wanted and stack them.

Actually, things might work like this:
You can take more than one HTH skill in Rifts, but they don't stack; they supercede the lesser skills.
That's why it costs 2 skills to get HTH: Expert.
You spend one on HTH: Basic, then one on HTH: Expert.
Expert is better than Basic, so the fact that you have Basic is no longer relavent.

[Dave the dragon]

You know... while I do admit N&SS contradicts it... and there's probably a blurb somewhere in Rifts that contradicts it too... it would be very cool if you could select as many hand to hand skills as you wanted and stack them.

Actually, things might work like this:
You can take more than one HTH skill in Rifts, but they don't stack; they supercede the lesser skills.
That's why it costs 2 skills to get HTH: Expert.
You spend one on HTH: Basic, then one on HTH: Expert.
Expert is better than Basic, so the fact that you have Basic is no longer relavent.

Tahts exactly how it works. As stated in the combat section of the main book, just befor bonuses are listed.
And as for road warrior, Im not flaming or picking on you. Just pointing out "in black and white" that the HTH stacking you suggested was wrong. If you cant handle being corrected, get off the lists. I may not always be right (pause for collective gasp of audience ) but I am willoing to admit when I make a mistake or misquote.

[Dr. Doom III]

I may not always be right (pause for collective gasp of audience ) but I am willoing to admit when I make a mistake or misquote.

Doom doesn't have that problem.

[Hystrix]

I may not always be right (pause for collective gasp of audience ) but I am willoing to admit when I make a mistake or misquote.

Doom doesn't have that problem.

Doom has a lousey memory.

[Svartalf]

..The only place I know of where multiple hand to hand forms are addressed is in Ninjas & Superspies, and there you can take more than one, but the bonuses do not stack.

..So go ahead and waste all of your characters skills taking multiple hand to hands. What does that prove? Other than you seem unable to admit when you're wrong....



-Mike >8]

Actually, in Rifts, things don't work like that. Normally, it is impossible to have more than one HtH skills, which is why most OCC's have "upgrade" plans, rather than the option of taking several HtH skills.

[Svartalf]

You know... while I do admit N&SS contradicts it... and there's probably a blurb somewhere in Rifts that contradicts it too... it would be very cool if you could select as many hand to hand skills as you wanted and stack them.

Actually, things might work like this:
You can take more than one HTH skill in Rifts, but they don't stack; they supercede the lesser skills.
That's why it costs 2 skills to get HTH: Expert.
You spend one on HTH: Basic, then one on HTH: Expert.
Expert is better than Basic, so the fact that you have Basic is no longer relavent.

Not quite... I've noticed a couple cases in which expert gets some bonuses before Martial Arts...

[Dr. Doom III]

i wonder when this thread turned from a civil discussion on vagabonds to a gang-bang flame-fest against me. I have not insulted one person, only stated my arguments clearly and backed up by the text. And yet every geek and their cat comes out of the woodwork to tell me that I am stupid and their house rules are canon.
and here I am, floating above it all.
So tell me who really is the sore loser?

I'm sorry I didn't give you a chance.
Could you please rectify my error by quoting this rule that states they don't get a hand-to-hand skill?
It should be easy it’s written in black & white.

[Svartalf]

Rogue Scholar, Rogue Scientist, all men of magic from RMB... quite a few more... of course, in those cases, the possibility of taking the various HtH skills and the skill # for each are expressly stated...

Which doesn't change a thing to the fact that HtH ARE physical skills and that there is no restriction about this listed in the Vagabond writeup, which means that a vagabond CAN take such a skill, say at the same cost as a rogue scholar... or, at the very least, HtH basic.

[Killer Cyborg]

Since there is no description in the vagabond OCC, there is no way at all to know whether Hand to Hand: Basic costs 1 skill or 10 skills. Until it is clarified, and we know how many skills must be spent, one must take the stance that they can't select the skills, even if it is likely that they are able to.

It can be inferred by the fact that all scholars/adventurers (who don't start with any HTH skill automatically) have the exact same costs for purchasing HTH skills.

[MADMANMIKE]

Since there is no description in the vagabond OCC, there is no way at all to know whether Hand to Hand: Basic costs 1 skill or 10 skills. Until it is clarified, and we know how many skills must be spent, one must take the stance that they can't select the skills, even if it is likely that they are able to.

..We must? What? sacrifice options? Sacrifice fun?

..Folks, we must do as we please, as the author of the book has expressed on several occassions. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the people who play Rifts live in the free world, so they must do as they feel, not as you feel Tyciol....

..Play a Vagabond with hand to hand, play a Vagabond without, don't play a Vagabond at all, it's up to you. But if you choose not to play one because you insist the vaguaries of the rules make the character too weak for your game, it's only you and your game that you're going to hurt by being so inflexible.

..Of course, that's not entirely true, since I'd wager I'm not the only one here who's gotten a headache trying to talk some sense into people..

-Mike >8]

[Killer Cyborg]

It can be inferred by the fact that all scholars/adventurers (who don't start with any HTH skill automatically) have the exact same costs for purchasing HTH skills.

KC I'm the one that brought that up, so don't quote it like it's original =P Yes, the fact is a good guideline, if they're even able to select the skills at all, but something really does need to be listed under the OCC to know for sure.

My point is that we're not operating in a vacuum here; it's pretty clear what the rules are, and that vagabonds can get HTH skills.
If you knew that already, why the...

Since there is no description in the vagabond OCC, there is no way at all to know whether Hand to Hand: Basic costs 1 skill or 10 skills. Until it is clarified, and we know how many skills must be spent, one must take the stance that they can't select the skills, even if it is likely that they are able to.

-There IS a way to tell the costs.
-There is NO reason to assume that they can't select the skills.

[Svartalf]

Important question. What classes require more than the 1, 2, 3, 4 progression to select hand-to-hand skills? As a seperate and less important question, what classes are entirely denied them?

1) I'm just too lazy to go checking for some really obscure material

2) none

[Vrykolas2k]

Important question. What classes require more than the 1, 2, 3, 4 progression to select hand-to-hand skills? As a seperate and less important question, what classes are entirely denied them?

1) I'm just too lazy to go checking for some really obscure material

2) none

1} Ditto...


2} Agreed.

[Killer Cyborg]

Important question. What classes require more than the 1, 2, 3, 4 progression to select hand-to-hand skills? As a seperate and less important question, what classes are entirely denied them?

1) I'm just too lazy to go checking for some really obscure material

2) none

1} Ditto...


2} Agreed.

What I don't understand is people saying that HTH skills are just like physical skills, but then it takes this # of other skills to progress to the next HTH type. That's about as clear as mud.

This is important, so pay close attention:
Hand to hand skills aren't like Physical Skills, they ARE Physical Skills.
This is mentioned in the books a number of times.
Read and learn.

If HTH styles were just like physical skills then you could take HTH basic for 1 skill or say, "screw that" and take HTH Expert for 1 skill instead. That's not the case. They've got this non-sensical upgrade schtick going on and limitations to some OCCs that can't even take certain HTH. No other physical skill, that I'm aware of, takes more than one skill slot to select. How is that clear? If it were it would have costs of skill slots listed under the descriptions of the seperate HTH styles.

LOTS of skills have pre-requisites.
You can't spend one skill to get HTH: Assassin any more than you can spend 1 skill to pick up a MD skill.

[Athos]

LOTS of skills have pre-requisites.
You can't spend one skill to get HTH: Assassin any more than you can spend 1 skill to pick up a MD skill.

Great analogy. The fact that they build on each other makes complete sense and fits with the cost progression given for most classes.

[Killer Cyborg]

This is important, so pay close attention:
Hand to hand skills aren't like Physical Skills, they ARE Physical Skills.

This is mentioned in the books a number of times.
Read and learn.

LOTS of skills have pre-requisites.
You can't spend one skill to get HTH: Assassin any more than you can spend 1 skill to pick up a MD skill.

Hmmm, reading but not learning, since it makes no sense.

They are not, plain and simple. They are a poorly defined, special case, which is the heart of the problem.

Welcome to Palladium.

They are listed as physical skills but do not cost 1 skill slot to take, and have no listed prerequisiste skills, so how can they be physical skills just like the others?

Skills don't all follow the same rules.
Boxing and Wrestling don't have percentages for success, but they're still physical skills.
Sniper (I know, it isn't a physical skill) doesn't specifically mentiong requiring WP Rifle.

[Svartalf]

What I don't understand is people saying that HTH skills are just like physical skills, but then it takes this # of other skills to progress to the next HTH type. That's about as clear as mud.

If HTH styles were just like physical skills then you could take HTH basic for 1 skill or say, "screw that" and take HTH Expert for 1 skill instead. That's not the case. They've got this non-sensical upgrade schtick going on and limitations to some OCCs that can't even take certain HTH. No other physical skill, that I'm aware of, takes more than one skill slot to select. How is that clear? If it were it would have costs of skill slots listed under the descriptions of the seperate HTH styles.

As for no HTH being listed and it not being printed specifically that they cannot, why not start Vagabonds with a martial art from Japan? They've got the skill slots to burn and there's nothing included in the restrictions?

What is it you don't understand? they ARE physical skills, they just are, even the wackier, most variant forms of PRPG system classify them as such (look at system Failures, or, more revealingly even, China 2)... they are classed amongst physical skills, and, unless special rules are specified (which, of course, is usually the case) they can be chosen as OCC or secondary skills, just like any other, though, if you cross check with other systems and the special rules most usually used, advanced forms (Expert, MA, Assassin) will actually cost more than one skill slot.

[Skiles99]

All the precedents established in the books point to the idea that Vagabonds can take a Hand to Hand. In most O.C.C. write ups, when a class specifically can't take a skill, it is mentioned, AND when a class specifically CAN take a skill, that is also mentioned. With the Vagabond, neither is listed, so we have to extrapolate by what we know from the books and previously established precedents. Hand to Hand skills being listed under physical skills, costs to learn them established either by examining other O.C.C.'s or by, say, looking at Heroes Unlimited 2nd Edition, and every existing Rifts official Vagabond character having a Hand to Hand skill. There is nothing in support of them not being able to learn it, on the other hand.
Possibly Kevin Siembieda himself will show up here and contradict me, but until he does I'm going with the evidence.
As for Coalition Psi-Stalkers and Hand to Hand Assassin, check out page 159 of Rifts World Book 13: Lone Star. They can take it.