Multiple accions/attacks house rules

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Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

I've been dealing with this multiple action/attacks house rule:

1) PC can spend 1 Mov action per turn.
2) PC can do 1 attack per action.
3) The rest of the attacks from H2H training, boxing, etc. cal be used for "reactions" such as rolling, parrying, aiming, activate Power Punch, etc.

What do you thing?

Do you see it doable?

What drawbacks does it have?


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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

The above would exacerbate the "padded sumo" under which Megaversal combat is already strained. It would, however, make each round quicker to resolve, and would encourage tactical considerations such as movement during the round. Likely a combat could take the same time tableside, even if it takes much longer narratively.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by Plane »

What makes it padded sumo? Regenerating force fields or per-minute healing?
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by The_Livewire »

I've been looking at stealing Pathfinder 2's action system. X actions 1 reaction mechanic. Each action can be a move, attack, manipulate or other action. The reaction can be a traditional Palladium style dodge. "Parry/Doge" actions spent would add a penalty to people trying to hit you until your next turn. Not sure how much of one. -2? -4?

So a person with HTH MA at level 1 has, let's say 4 actions and one reaction. He can make 4 attacks and stand still, move and attack, or move/attack/dodge/dodge making it harder to hit him. Great for those heroic "I'll hold them off" moments.

Work in progress, more brainstorming that actual practice.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

Please, keep me informed here for your final conclusions. I'm very interested. Thanks.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by dethbegins »

I personally consider each attack to be something time based, if you can feasibly use 4 weapons at once in 15 seconds, you should. However, i borrow from BattleTech, where each round happens at the same time, but the damage isn't calculated until the end of the round. Helps keep everyone's actions within a set amount of time, while being time efficient and reliably accurate to the players needs and intent. Other than that, each attack is precalculated to its max possible potential, so everything is as dangerous as possible. When it comes to actually rolling though, I personally let them roll once per combat, and the damage they roll is their reliable damage form.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

dethbegins wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:40 am I personally consider each attack to be something time based, if you can feasibly use 4 weapons at once in 15 seconds, you should. However, i borrow from BattleTech, where each round happens at the same time, but the damage isn't calculated until the end of the round. Helps keep everyone's actions within a set amount of time, while being time efficient and reliably accurate to the players needs and intent. Other than that, each attack is precalculated to its max possible potential, so everything is as dangerous as possible. When it comes to actually rolling though, I personally let them roll once per combat, and the damage they roll is their reliable damage form.
most of the groups i'm in have adopted the 'phases' system to address this.. the 15 second melee round is broken into 5 phases. in each phase, you can perform one attack/action, unless you have more than 5 attacks/actions, at which point you can do 2 per phase using up the extras. if for some reason you have more than 10 ApM, you can do three a phase, etc. if you have less than 5 attacks, you can only do something if you have an attack to use that phase. for for example, a higher level character with a HTH giving them 6 attacks would be able to do one attack per phase, with one phase of choice having two attacks/actions. an intro level char with only 4 attacks would be able to attack or act in 4 out of the 5 phases, with the player deciding when he can't do anything. this helps reduce the cheese of high ApM characters like juicers, as they just become multitaskers instead of being able to act unopposed when everyone else runs out of attacks. it also benefits robot and PA pilots, since they usually get extra ApM with their robot/PA combat skills, and this set up allows them to do things like fire multiple weapons a phase using the extra, or use their guns and run specialty equipment.

there is a lot more to it, like how multi-action attacks work and some minor eratta work to deal with edge cases, but that's the basic gist of it. Jefffar here on the forums developed it, and it works pretty well in balancing things.
Last edited by glitterboy2098 on Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by The_Livewire »

glitterboy2098 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:56 am


there is a lot more to it, like how multi-action attacks work and some minor eratta work to deal with edge cases, but that's the basic gist of it. 13eowulf here on the forums developed it, and it works pretty well in balancing things.
Sounds interesting, do you have a link to it?
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

i'll PM you.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by dethbegins »

glitterboy2098 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:12 pm i'll PM you.
Toss me one as well please, would love to know more.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

so i talked to 13eowulf and got permission to share a copy of his file on it.



a few bits are his house rules but those should be easily sorted (he calls out most of them as such)
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

As a GM....
If the Player shows they are imaginative with what they want to do with ""spending"" multiple attack/actions in one turn, then I will look at what they want and if it fits into their char concept and the battle as it is.

If they are just going with the flow....*meh*
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

[Sorry, double posted.]
Last edited by mobuttu on Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

glitterboy2098 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:56 am most of the groups i'm in have adopted the 'phases' system to address this.. the 15 second melee round is broken into 5 phases. in each phase, you can perform one attack/action, unless you have more than 5 attacks/actions, at which point you can do 2 per phase using up the extras. if for some reason you have more than 10 ApM, you can do three a phase, etc. if you have less than 5 attacks, you can only do something if you have an attack to use that phase. for for example, a higher level character with a HTH giving them 6 attacks would be able to do one attack per phase, with one phase of choice having two attacks/actions. an intro level char with only 4 attacks would be able to attack or act in 4 out of the 5 phases, with the player deciding when he can't do anything. this helps reduce the cheese of high ApM characters like juicers, as they just become multitaskers instead of being able to act unopposed when everyone else runs out of attacks. it also benefits robot and PA pilots, since they usually get extra ApM with their robot/PA combat skills, and this set up allows them to do things like fire multiple weapons a phase using the extra, or use their guns and run specialty equipment.
Would it be something like this?
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by 13eowulf »

mobuttu wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:22 pm
glitterboy2098 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:56 am most of the groups i'm in have adopted the 'phases' system to address this.. the 15 second melee round is broken into 5 phases. in each phase, you can perform one attack/action, unless you have more than 5 attacks/actions, at which point you can do 2 per phase using up the extras. if for some reason you have more than 10 ApM, you can do three a phase, etc. if you have less than 5 attacks, you can only do something if you have an attack to use that phase. for for example, a higher level character with a HTH giving them 6 attacks would be able to do one attack per phase, with one phase of choice having two attacks/actions. an intro level char with only 4 attacks would be able to attack or act in 4 out of the 5 phases, with the player deciding when he can't do anything. this helps reduce the cheese of high ApM characters like juicers, as they just become multitaskers instead of being able to act unopposed when everyone else runs out of attacks. it also benefits robot and PA pilots, since they usually get extra ApM with their robot/PA combat skills, and this set up allows them to do things like fire multiple weapons a phase using the extra, or use their guns and run specialty equipment.
Would it be something like this?
Indeed that would work.
But as well it wouldn't be locked into those patterns. Different characters with the same amount of attacks might spread them out different (outside of those with 5 who would have no "spread out" options, so to speak). And a character could change the spread round to round, or at least that is how I ran it.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

13eowulf wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:43 am But as well it wouldn't be locked into those patterns. Different characters with the same amount of attacks might spread them out different (outside of those with 5 who would have no "spread out" options, so to speak). And a character could change the spread round to round, or at least that is how I ran it.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by darthauthor »

I am ingnorant of the phases model.

Glancing at it now I like the idea of it.

Too many times to my liking characters have waited and wanted to use their six or seven attacks after everyone else.

Combat is speed.
IF you wait around to see what everyone else is doing or what your opponents are doing you are doing nothing but looking.
Well, it feels like by the time I've gotten to player four they never fire a shot or cast a spell.

Now I feel like giving the players a schedule sheet for the round's phases.

I feel like each player should write down their first attack action for the next 3 seconds that they will commit to doing regardless of one of the other characters shooting and killing the opponent they are targeting.

I feel it will motivate players to tell each other what they want to do and cooperate or run out of E-clips and P.P.E.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by Grazzik »

For the last couple years, I've been using actions evenly distributed, centered on the 8th second of the melee. NPCs may have modified distributions to keep things interesting and maybe reflect some aspect of their character (fast reactions, bursts of energy, flurry of attacks, cautious temperament, etc.).

Initiative is used to resolve sequence where 2+ PCs or NPCs have actions in the same second. Ambush becomes important to get 1-3 actions (GM discretion) in before the melee begins. Movement happens at the same time as action, but appropriate modifiers applied to strike etc.

Works well, models the ability to attack quickly pretty decently. No real complaints.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by mobuttu »

Grazzik wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:23 am Movement happens at the same time as action,
All in all, I think that's a key component of the Palladium system. Movement and accion are done together. So if you attack while on the move, you should have attack penalties to hit.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

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The_Livewire wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:08 am I've been looking at stealing Pathfinder 2's action system. X actions 1 reaction mechanic. Each action can be a move, attack, manipulate or other action. The reaction can be a traditional Palladium style dodge. "Parry/Doge" actions spent would add a penalty to people trying to hit you until your next turn. Not sure how much of one. -2? -4?
Uh... - there die roll? Holding the modifier for all incoming attacks just makes the Rifts system more like the Ninjas and Superspies system with circular dodge.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »


dethbegins wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:40 am I personally consider each attack to be something time based, if you can feasibly use 4 weapons at once in 15 seconds, you should. However, i borrow from BattleTech, where each round happens at the same time, but the damage isn't calculated until the end of the round. Helps keep everyone's actions within a set amount of time, while being time efficient and reliably accurate to the players needs and intent. Other than that, each attack is precalculated to its max possible potential, so everything is as dangerous as possible. When it comes to actually rolling though, I personally let them roll once per combat, and the damage they roll is their reliable damage form.
Except then you end up with times when the player has killed off their opponent before their opponent was able to detonate the bomb but because damage isn't applied till the end of the turn the bad guy has detonated the bomb.
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Re: Multiple accions/attacks house rules

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

glitterboy2098 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:56 am
dethbegins wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:40 am I personally consider each attack to be something time based, if you can feasibly use 4 weapons at once in 15 seconds, you should. However, i borrow from BattleTech, where each round happens at the same time, but the damage isn't calculated until the end of the round. Helps keep everyone's actions within a set amount of time, while being time efficient and reliably accurate to the players needs and intent. Other than that, each attack is precalculated to its max possible potential, so everything is as dangerous as possible. When it comes to actually rolling though, I personally let them roll once per combat, and the damage they roll is their reliable damage form.
most of the groups i'm in have adopted the 'phases' system to address this.. the 15 second melee round is broken into 5 phases. in each phase, you can perform one attack/action, unless you have more than 5 attacks/actions, at which point you can do 2 per phase using up the extras. if for some reason you have more than 10 ApM, you can do three a phase, etc. if you have less than 5 attacks, you can only do something if you have an attack to use that phase. for for example, a higher level character with a HTH giving them 6 attacks would be able to do one attack per phase, with one phase of choice having two attacks/actions. an intro level char with only 4 attacks would be able to attack or act in 4 out of the 5 phases, with the player deciding when he can't do anything. this helps reduce the cheese of high ApM characters like juicers, as they just become multitaskers instead of being able to act unopposed when everyone else runs out of attacks. it also benefits robot and PA pilots, since they usually get extra ApM with their robot/PA combat skills, and this set up allows them to do things like fire multiple weapons a phase using the extra, or use their guns and run specialty equipment.

there is a lot more to it, like how multi-action attacks work and some minor eratta work to deal with edge cases, but that's the basic gist of it. Jefffar here on the forums developed it, and it works pretty well in balancing things.
Similar except I don't group my timeI use 15 phases. I have a matrix and if you have x attacks you go during y second(s). Everyone has their first attack in the first second. When it is your turn you may move (x feet÷# attacks) or hold an action for a dodge during a second which you do not have an action, if you can't or don't have a dodge available (action held) you can only parry or auto dodge. For multi action actions you need to save them up as they come also the multi action actions are RMB not RUE so a called shot doesn't take an extra action an aimed shot takes 1 action. Spells are cast with a single action unless otherwise noted and you can cast as many times as you have actions HOWEVER, a spell takes as many seconds as its level (hours for rituals and everything can be made a ritual) modified a little by your level which is on another table (basically min spell level÷level round up). While casting you can't do anything else until it is done or the spell has been interrupted. There are other things you can do to modify spells like making the save harder by taking more time to cast or increase the damage or range and they can do each a number of times with the total number of "multipliers" regulated by their level. Also if attacked while casting a spell, if damage is taken, the caster can see to maintain concentration.
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