What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

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What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

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What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by Warshield73 »

In PB games leadership seems to have more to do with attributes than skills but if you are creating an NPC leader I like the Rogue Scholar. Give them a decent MA and a lot of lore and history skills. I would also use the leadership skill and maybe even the theater warfare skills from Robtech 2e Macross SB.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by darthauthor »

That's a great answer, maybe just about as good an answer as anybody can give.

I am toying with ideas in my head.

Maybe the Vagabond just for their "Eyeball a Fella" ability and dice for Mental Affinity.

The psionic power empathy would let a leader know how their people are feeling.

Empathic transmission to give followers hope and such.

More than that I don't know.

Maybe the spell "Lifeblast"

I feel like I am going down a rabbit hole of classes with spell abilities that buff NPCs and players.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by Grazzik »

Is this for a PC or NPC?

If a PC, they are really only as good as the player playing them. If a player ticks off their GM or other players, it doesn't matter what's written down. If the player plays well, other players will choose to follow regardless of stats and skills.

If NPC, I'd agree with Warshield73. Tho I'd add Public Speaking (oratory rhetoric), Intelligence (evaluate and analyze), and maybe the Psychology skill from BTS2 (or modify a Psychology lite version of the skill without prereqs, but with a substantial penalty).

The Administrator OCC from Rifts WB 19 pg 105 might fit your needs, particularly with the Invoke Policy special skill.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by GoliathReturns »

Honestly, IMO, this is one of those "there is no one answer" things.

For players, it's usually the player, not the character. I've had several groups over the years where even through different characters and different campaigns, the same player was usually the leader. And often, that person had some leadership skills, ability, and experience in the real world. They need to know what roles people play, and how experienced they are at those roles- as a leader, you're going to treat the Party's wizard different if it's being played by Joshua, who almost always plays a mage, or Sarah, who is playing a wizard for the first time ever. And honestly, THAT ability is what makes the best leader for the party. It doesn't matter what OCC they are, or what skills they have.

For NPCs, in my experience, on the Fantasy side, scholars and mages tend to be the best leaders (but I also admit I'm biased), partially because they have such a wide array of skills, they can know the best ways for tackling any given situation. This is particularly true of the "lore hogs" (I usually use a different word, but I don't think it's forums appropriate). They have a good chance of knowing the best way to deal with whatever is being encountered. If they have the history skill, or similar, they may have a chance of knowing tactics of famous events that are similar to what they're dealing with.

So, in my mind, for players, it's the PLAYER who makes the best leader, not the character. For NPCs, know-it-alls make good leaders.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by desrocfc »

There is no OCC = leader dynamic in PB games.

There are a number of OCCs that generally make the PC an officer, but as anyone with military experience will tell you, junior officers don't tend to embody this as a general trait; senior NCOs and officers typically are the "paragon" for leadership, if one could even go that far.

Those military classes may not be the most suitable for "leadership" within civilian institutions either, as civilian managerial techniques often differ from those of the military.

Then there is the world's dynamic. In fantasy settings, might often makes right. Some would call that a leadership style. Under a monarchy, birthright denotes leadership. Religious cultures favour the edicts of clerics and priests.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Now as mentioned there is a "Leadership" skill found in the 2E Robotech Books (Macross Saga SB IIRC), but it isn't real well defined in "how it works" (it's a "roll-playing" thing instead of a "role-playing" thing if you get my drift). It essentially acts as a way to get MA's 16+ bonus skill (with a 15 or less score) that will improve with character level.

I think what make the best leader are going to come to several factors:
-the "personality" of the group members in question could dictate a different leadership "style" to get an effective group. A strict "by the book" leader might not be able to effectively lead a group of "rules breakers/benders" for example.
-the "situation" will dictate what supporting skills (or OCC) are relevant in helping to make a good leader (a bunch of Lore skills are likely not going to help with leadership when leading a group of medical personnel or combat pilots or a team of mechanics/engineers)
-there is also "soft" side that involve ability to manage people (a multi-front thing), make decisions, take responsibility/accountability, none of which are really skill/ability based in terms of game mechanics.

I can certainly agree that passive abilities could help make better informed decisions but using something more active to "manage" someone(s) isn't an example of good leadership IMHO.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

darthauthor wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 2:18 am What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?
A leader of what....?
...military leader?
...a national leader?
...a leader of a cult?
...a leader of a questing group?
...a leader of a town?
The question is too wide to be easily answered with specificity.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

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A military platoon of 40
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by Grazzik »

darthauthor wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:17 pm A military platoon of 40
Just stating the obvious here... then it is the OCC for platoon leader in the respective service, be it merc, CS, NGR, FQ, etc. and the OCC skills of that OCC.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by GoliathReturns »

Grazzik wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:22 am
darthauthor wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:17 pm A military platoon of 40
Just stating the obvious here... then it is the OCC for platoon leader in the respective service, be it merc, CS, NGR, FQ, etc. and the OCC skills of that OCC.
I'm going to have to echo Grazzik, because even "a platoon leader of 40" is really vague.

Are these 40 CS infantrymen? Or is it 40 juicers? Or 40 mages of Tolkien? 40 dwarven guardsmen in fantasy? 40 elven archers?

Heck, even the "mages" one would be vague, since there's differences of leading those guys that wear golem suits (I'm not a huge rifts guy, sorry), vs conjurers vs ley line walkers...
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

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8 CS psi-stalkers
32 CS Dog Boys
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by foilfodder »

darthauthor wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:24 pm 8 CS psi-stalkers
32 CS Dog Boys
1) The Coalition would not pass through officer cannidates that disagreed with their fundamental philosophy. The CS propoganda would be overwhelming during military training. "D-bees are evil, magic is evil, as a soldier of the Coalition you protect the citizens from these evils." Anyone disagreeing openly with policy would be discharged, imprisoned or possibly executed. A dissenting officer would only be possible of the officer had a change-in-heart after being trained/indoctranated.

2) Most CS officers should be sound military leaders. Occassionally a "helpful" citizen might be granted military rank and position as a reward but such individuals would be given positions where they can be controlled. Similary, a competant military officer that doesn't play politics well might be dead-ended at their current rank. Only those able to master politics and military command (or have subordinates to assist them) will make it to the top.

However, depending on which region/member-state each officer comes from you could get a bit of divergence from the A-typical CS Officer born and educated in safty and luxury of Chi-Town (not the 'burbs). Cannidates from the Lone Star states or Free Quebec have their sense of patriotism and as proved by Quebec later in the time-line their first loyalty is not to the Emperor.

For your officer darthauthor:
- is the leader part of a garrison force or a long-range patrol?
- are they on special deployment or regular duty?
- What region are they from? (typically always a mix but with a majority local recruits)
- what is the officer's connections to command? Distant and strained or close and favored?

As your force is completely dog-boys and psi-staklers they would be unlikely to have a loyalty to a "home state" like baseline humans would.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by darthauthor »

Thanks for the reply Foilfodder,

Officially I asked about leadership not necessarily an officier. I am more focused
on what makes a good leader to his or her followers then in the eyes of the CS.

Now for your specifics:

- is the leader part of a garrison force or a long-range patrol?

LONG-RANGE PATROL
Gone for at least six months without backup, communications or supply lines.

- are they on special deployment or regular duty?

Special deployment

- What region are they from? (typically always a mix but with a majority local recruits)

The Dog Boys ? I guess Lone Star.
Psi-stalkers? I guess minosota region

- what is the officer's connections to command?

Distant and strained.
Leadership sort of forgot about them. Afterwards they assumed they were either dead or deserters as they don't know where they are in the field and have no radio communications with them. The units chain of command above them got kill. Their immediate human command ran them ragged, critizied them and put them down. Treated them like robots. Worked them for days. Sent them into battles while staying out of it themselves. Left them in dangerous positions without support or supervision.
Their lives have been saved repeatedly by Free Born Dog Boys they have had to fight along side of out of necessity. They had to depend upon the free born for enough food and medical treatment. They were told strories by the free born about how their parents left to fight demons, monsters, and vampires in the Lone Star state and in the South and West. They were embraced by the people they defended and save as heroes. They were as fire fighters who went where the fires are and stayed gaurdians of humankind.

They sort of are trying to get back to a CS territory but keep stopping to fight monsters, rescue human or help them with their problems. That and to rest and forage/hunt for food and water. They found that people they helped treat the Dog Boys a hell of a lot better then their CS officers ever did.

They have started to make a name and reputation for themselves sort of like cyber-knights or tundra rangers
Last edited by darthauthor on Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by foilfodder »

You definately have a good start there. Still loyal to CS military and the ideal of being protectors of humankind.

Your leader is probably the John Wayne type. Strong leader, willing to fight alongside his men and humble enough to assign one of his subordinates when their skills are better suited to a task rather than sabotage them as a potental rival. Willing to work around CS doctrine but understands not to blatently violate or risk loosing command and facing imprisonment/execution.

As far as generating actual gamestats for your leader:

OCC : Coalition Military Specialist, C.S. Grunt, Civilized Psi-Stalker or even a Merc-Soldier granted a comission

Attributes: decent IQ and physical stats, high M.E. and M.A.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

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Right now I am using a Free Born Dog Boy who is undercover as a CS Dog Boy.
Sgt Wyatt.
He is secretly a cyber-knight.

He is leveling up though and needs to pick a couple of O.C.C. Related skills.
Figured he'd should pick something more suited to the leadership role.
I also thought about retconning him to reorder him into as a leader of Dog Boys and psi-stalkers.

Public Speaking?
Performance?
Military Etiquette?

I feel the closest I have come would be a Dog Boy Reid Ranger Vampire hunter O.C.C.
They have a special quality leadership perk.

I most definitately do NOT want to make him a human CS officer.
I just want him to be a GOOD leader of Dog Boys.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by darthauthor »

Reid Rangers Training:
Fabled commanding confidence:

Enables a single Reid's Ranger to calm down, quiet and lead or direct large
groups of 50 people per level.
Also can settle the nerves of small squad fighting forces (1D6+ 10 per level),
and keep them calm, working as a team, and focused on the objective at
hand: 50% chance +2% per level of experience they will follow his lead or
accept him as their field leader in a crisis situation against vampires.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by foilfodder »

darthauthor wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm Right now I am using a Free Born Dog Boy who is undercover as a CS Dog Boy.
Sgt Wyatt.
He is secretly a cyber-knight.

He is leveling up though and needs to pick a couple of O.C.C. Related skills.
Figured he'd should pick something more suited to the leadership role.
I also thought about retconning him to reorder him into as a leader of Dog Boys and psi-stalkers.

Public Speaking?
Performance?
Military Etiquette?

I feel the closest I have come would be a Dog Boy Reid Ranger Vampire hunter O.C.C.
They have a special quality leadership perk.

I most definitately do NOT want to make him a human CS officer.
I just want him to be a GOOD leader of Dog Boys.
Sounds like a pretty complicated backstory. Major difficulty I see for a Cyber Knight going undercover in CS military is concealing their cyber-armor. Cyber armor is unique to the cyber-knights, it covers most of their body and is grafted to them. Hard to hide, impossible to remove. Any attempt to conceal it with magic or techno-wizardy would be detected by the dog-boys and psi-stalkers.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by darthauthor »

World Book 28 - Arzno - Vampire Incursion

Page 158 Cyber-knight Lady Night Runner
Native American Cyber-knight.
Page 159, "Due to her Traditional views, Lady Night Runner declined the standard mechanical augmentation."
She does not have cyber-armor.

So to do I see that Sir Wyatt, Dog Boy Cyber-Knight turned down cyber-armor himself. He does it to pass for a CS Dog Boy.
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

foilfodder wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:11 pm
darthauthor wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm Right now I am using a Free Born Dog Boy who is undercover as a CS Dog Boy.
Sgt Wyatt.
He is secretly a cyber-knight.

He is leveling up though and needs to pick a couple of O.C.C. Related skills.
Figured he'd should pick something more suited to the leadership role.
I also thought about retconning him to reorder him into as a leader of Dog Boys and psi-stalkers.

Public Speaking?
Performance?
Military Etiquette?

I feel the closest I have come would be a Dog Boy Reid Ranger Vampire hunter O.C.C.
They have a special quality leadership perk.

I most definitately do NOT want to make him a human CS officer.
I just want him to be a GOOD leader of Dog Boys.
Sounds like a pretty complicated backstory. Major difficulty I see for a Cyber Knight going undercover in CS military is concealing their cyber-armor. Cyber armor is unique to the cyber-knights, it covers most of their body and is grafted to them. Hard to hide, impossible to remove. Any attempt to conceal it with magic or techno-wizardy would be detected by the dog-boys and psi-stalkers.
Incorrect. Cyber-Armor is a regular option for anyone who wants to get Cybernetics and has been since RMB days, however in RUE days it is found in the Bionics Soucebook (as opposed to the main book in RMB-era) specifically on pg45-6 (regardless in the Black Market Cybernetics).

Now Cyber-Knight Cyber-Armor is not exactly the same as the BM Cyber-Armor as it can become "living" part of the CK (introduced in SoT4 and maintained in RUE). A CK going undercover in the CS military isn't going to be given away by their Cyber-Armor since it is something that is available and something the CS is known to use (CS Juicer in WB11 pg77 receives regular Cyber-Armor as standard). What may complicate a Cyber-Knight working for the CS is not their Cyber Armor per say (at higher levels it may be an issue), but rather their psionic abilities. AFAIK there isn't anything that precludes the CS from working with CKs (treating them as mercenaries).
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Re: What O.C.C.s and skills make the best leader?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Good posting, ShadowLogan.
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