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 Post subject: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:47 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

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So we have been having a discussion in Rifts: Haunted Tech Sourcebook about which unreleased books have been promised the longest. There was also a conversation about it when we discussed the City of Cascade but I can't find it. So I spent about an hour going through all the PB catalogues from 1993 to June 2020 to see what books were listed but have not been released.

Now off the top of my head I know there was a book called Void Runners and the Dark City of Cascade promised but were not in the catalogues so going through the Rifters might actually be better but that would take way longer. I may try to go through and add things advertised in the Rifters later but right now this is the best list I can create.

I listed the book title and the date of the catalogue it was first mentioned.

Mechanoid Space - 1992
BTS Lazlo Agency - Summer 1993
Rifts Gods & Oni of Japan - Summer 1993
Rifts WB Chi-town - Summer 1993
Rifts Omegan Order (part of New West)- Summer 1993
Mystic China Sourcebook - 1995
PF Old Kingdom Mountains - Fall 1996
PF Old Kingdom Low Lands - Fall 1996
HU Delphineous' Guide to the Universe - Fall 1997
HU Hardware Unlimited - Fall 1997
Rifts Australia 2 Mystic Australia - Spring 1999
Rifts Australia 3 Dreamtime - Spring 1999
Rifts Scotland - Spring 1999
Rifts Africa 2 - Spring 1999
Rifts Hong Kong - Spring 1999
PF Land of the Damned 3 Bleakness - Summer 2001 but series was mentioned in Spring 1999
HU The Atorian Empire - Summer 2001
PF Phi & Lopan - Summer 2001
Phase World Cosmo-Knights - Summer 2001
Rifts Crazies - Summer 2001
BTS 2 Beyond Arcanum - Fall 2003
BTS 2 Tome Grotesque - Fall 2003
PF Magic & Monsters - Fall 2003
CE NEMA Mission Book 1 - Fall 2003
CE NEMA Mission Book 2 - Fall 2003
CE Psychic Earth - Fall 2003
Rifts Dragons & Gods - Fall 2003
Phase World UWW book - Fall 2003
Rifts WB Lazlo - Summer 2004
PF Wolfen Wars - Summer 2004
Rifts China 3 - Summer 2005
Rifts Delta Blues - Summer 2006
Rifts The Dark Woods - Summer 2006
Rifts Voodoo & Spirit World - Summer 2006
Warpath Urban Jungle - Summer 2006
CE First Responders - Fall 2007
Phase World Spacecraft - Fall 2007
Rifts Adventure SB Lyboc Saga - Fall 2007
Rifts Federation of Magic 2 Old Guard Rebellion - Fall 2007
Rifts Antarctica - Winter 2012/2013
PF Mysteries of Magic 2 - ?
Rifts Disavowed - Dec 2018
Rifts Heroes of Humanity Arsenal - Dec 2018
Rifts Living Nowhere - Dec 2018
Rifts Bestiary Vol 2 - Dec 2018
Rifts Coalition Manhunters - June 2020
Rifts Titan Robotics - June 2020
BTS Creature Feature - June 2020

So that's my list. To be honest I had forgotten about a ton of these. I didn't include books that I am pretty sure just got title changes. Examples: HU The Nursery I am fairly certain this became Mutant Underground and Rifts Adventure SB The Republicans I think just got folded into SB1 Revised. If you know of something else or there is something in my list that got released under another name let me know so I can edit it.

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Last edited by Warshield73 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:12 am
  

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Champion

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You'll never see most of those.

Books get canceled, it happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:47 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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A "Corkscrew Galaxy" book would be a much better use of time and resources than a UWW one... and I say that as a guy who was once attached to write a UWW book.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:07 am
  

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Monk

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I count three coming out this year if ignoring the ones announced last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:29 pm
  

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Voice of the Gateway

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Comment: I love how people are quick to make demands, make spurious claims and then play the victim when you call them on it.
Cancelations happen for various reasons, its how writing works. Heck, China 3 is dropped because the author died before he could finish, and no one has the level of knowledge he had that's willing to write it.

Crap happens. See a book there you really wanted to see come out? Get to writing and submit something XD

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:56 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Mystic China Sourcebook - mentioned in Mystic China, Feb '95, for release in '95.

BTS: Darklings - mentioned in Palladium Fantasy's Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, Oct '89, for release in '90.
BTS: Nostromo: Agents of Darkness - ad in Magic of Palladium Books #5, Feb '90, for release in Spring '90.
BTS: The Lazlo Agency - I don't have a reference for this one.
BTS: The UFO Conspiracy - I don't have a reference for this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:10 pm
  

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Monk

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thorr-kan wrote:
Mystic China Sourcebook - mentioned in Mystic China, Feb '95, for release in '95.

BTS: Darklings - mentioned in Palladium Fantasy's Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, Oct '89, for release in '90.
BTS: Nostromo: Agents of Darkness - ad in Magic of Palladium Books #5, Feb '90, for release in Spring '90.
BTS: The Lazlo Agency - I don't have a reference for this one.
BTS: The UFO Conspiracy - I don't have a reference for this one.

You missed one important idea when mentioning the MC book. Which is it has been published.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:54 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Mystic China Sourcebook - mentioned in Mystic China, Feb '95, for release in '95.

BTS: Darklings - mentioned in Palladium Fantasy's Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, Oct '89, for release in '90.
BTS: Nostromo: Agents of Darkness - ad in Magic of Palladium Books #5, Feb '90, for release in Spring '90.
BTS: The Lazlo Agency - I don't have a reference for this one.
BTS: The UFO Conspiracy - I don't have a reference for this one.

You missed one important idea when mentioning the MC book. Which is it has been published.


Read what I wrote. There was Mystic China Sourcebook advertised *in* Mystic China. It was to be another book, detailing more mudras, Tibet, and Indian mysticism.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:12 pm
  

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Monk

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Ahhh...erp....

To me MC is a sourcebook....

What page?

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:01 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Ahhh...erp....

To me MC is a sourcebook....

What page?

Well...you're not wrong. But it is just titled Mystic China. This threw me for *years.*

Page after the title page. I think. You caught me AFB at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:47 pm
  

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Monk

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thorr-kan wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Ahhh...erp....

To me MC is a sourcebook....

What page?

Well...you're not wrong. But it is just titled Mystic China. This threw me for *years.*

Page after the title page. I think. You caught me AFB at the moment.

The page before the title page, is where I'm seeing it. I think someone ....aahhhmmm... fumbled something. Which is not all that rare with PB in their earlier books.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:37 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The page before the title page, is where I'm seeing it. I think someone ....aahhhmmm... fumbled something. Which is not all that rare with PB in their earlier books.

That's right! The copyright page.

I seem to recall, and I'm conjuring outta thin air here, that the sourcebook was tabled when Mr. Wujcik became ill. It remained tabled after he recovered and chose to pursue other projects. C'est la vie.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:46 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: They Saved Sureshot's Brain!
Book are cancelled for a variety of reasons.

Yet PB also needs to stop advertising books like Mechanoids Space and Beyond Arcanum which a years if not decades late. Unless a book is ready to go to the printers it should not even be in Coming Soon section imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:06 am
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

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First I just want echo what was already said, a lot of these books were canceled I just thought it would be kind of neat to have a list of all of these since they come up so often

thorr-kan wrote:
Mystic China Sourcebook - mentioned in Mystic China, Feb '95, for release in '95.

BTS: Darklings - mentioned in Palladium Fantasy's Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, Oct '89, for release in '90.
BTS: Nostromo: Agents of Darkness - ad in Magic of Palladium Books #5, Feb '90, for release in Spring '90.
BTS: The Lazlo Agency - I don't have a reference for this one.
BTS: The UFO Conspiracy - I don't have a reference for this one.

I added the MC SB as I found it right were you said. I now Lazlo agency is already on my list it is the second one there but I just had the title so I added BTS to the front to make it easier to find. The others I will place on the list when I can verify them.

Sureshot wrote:
Book are cancelled for a variety of reasons.

Yet PB also needs to stop advertising books like Mechanoids Space and Beyond Arcanum which a years if not decades late. Unless a book is ready to go to the printers it should not even be in Coming Soon section imo.

I am going to agree and disagree. I wish they would stop listing a release date, for anything. I would like them to list the process of publishing a book and then list the books along with current stage of production. So:
Book A has art assigned
Book B has been sent back to the freelancer and waiting for rewrites
Book C is in layout
Book D is at the printer
etc. etc.

I think we all want to know what is going on and what books might be coming out but I think we are all sick of the missed release dates.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:26 am
  

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Monk

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I think that having the upcoming books in the coming soon section is fine. One can tell which books are being worked on by seeing if there is cover artwork posted with the listing.


Step B is also 'waiting on Kevin to rewrite the parts he wants to rewrite, to put his stamp on the book.(so his name is on the cover too)'

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:14 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
PF Land of the Damned 3 Bleakness
PF Lopan (I replaced the old writer)
Rifts WB Lazlo - Summer 2004
CE First Responders - Fall 2007
Rifts Antarctica - Winter 2012/2013
Rifts Disavowed - Dec 2018
Rifts Heroes of Humanity Arsenal - Dec 2018
Rifts Living Nowhere - Dec 2018
Rifts Bestiary Vol 2 - Dec 2018
Rifts Coalition Manhunters - June 2020
Rifts Titan Robotics - June 2020
BTS Creature Feature - June 2020

Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:34 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Posts: 260
I know books get cancelled for various reasons. It's frustrating and sad but I know it happens. What I'm wondering now is, could any of these books be produced as RAW editions? Those that were close to being done could still be their own book while those that are less finished could be grouped together like the Chaos Earth RAW book?

It'd be a way to honor those who've passed. It'd be a way of giving fans books they've waited years for and may otherwise never get. It'd also be a way to generate money. My funds are limited but I'd totally by RAW editions of these books.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:11 pm
  

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D-Bee

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Sambot wrote:
I know books get cancelled for various reasons. It's frustrating and sad but I know it happens. What I'm wondering now is, could any of these books be produced as RAW editions? Those that were close to being done could still be their own book while those that are less finished could be grouped together like the Chaos Earth RAW book?

It'd be a way to honor those who've passed. It'd be a way of giving fans books they've waited years for and may otherwise never get. It'd also be a way to generate money. My funds are limited but I'd totally by RAW editions of these books.


Just got confirmation on shipping for my RAW Lazlo book, so it seems feasible for at least one of the previously mentioned books. I've gone back and forth with feelings about Palladium's release schedule over the years, but at the end of the day, I realized that I waited hopefully for a third season of Twin Peaks since 1991, and I've never been as disappointed with a book I've waited x years for from Palladium as I was with that third dang season. If Palladium was backed by a multinational manufacturing corp that had four and a half billion on hand in cash assets and the toy licenses for most major kids properties at the end of 2020, I reckon someone could rightly feel entitled to expect more frequent releases. As far as generating cash goes outside of RAW prints and the like, I for one missed the Megaversal Insider stuff previously, so that's something I'd be down to clown on if it became a thing again!

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:12 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Posts: 260
blackaeon wrote:

Just got confirmation on shipping for my RAW Lazlo book, so it seems feasible for at least one of the previously mentioned books. I've gone back and forth with feelings about Palladium's release schedule over the years, but at the end of the day, I realized that I waited hopefully for a third season of Twin Peaks since 1991, and I've never been as disappointed with a book I've waited x years for from Palladium as I was with that third dang season. If Palladium was backed by a multinational manufacturing corp that had four and a half billion on hand in cash assets and the toy licenses for most major kids properties at the end of 2020, I reckon someone could rightly feel entitled to expect more frequent releases. As far as generating cash goes outside of RAW prints and the like, I for one missed the Megaversal Insider stuff previously, so that's something I'd be down to clown on if it became a thing again!



I'm not sure about Megaversal Insiders stuff? I am sure though that I'd rather have an unfinished book than no book at all. I know Palladium is a small company and that things happen. It would be nice if books came out regularly and nothing got cancelled but I understand why it doesn't. I'm hoping more books will be produced, late if need be. I would also prefer a finished book but I'll take a RAW one if that's all there is. And with 30 or so cancelled books there must be enough material to create a few RAW editions.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
What I am wondering is what happened to New Navy and Hardware Unlimited?
Both had full texts available to browse at one of the Open Houses.
Finished up to the point of having had spacing for art blocked out.

Why are things like *that* still unprinted?

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:07 am
  

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Monk

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Prince Artemis wrote:
Cancelations happen for various reasons, its how writing works. Heck, China 3 is dropped because the author died before he could finish, and no one has the level of knowledge he had that's willing to write it.

Crap happens. See a book there you really wanted to see come out? Get to writing and submit something XD


But HU: Hardware Unlimited and New Navy manuscripts are already done. Greg D. was showing them off at the last POH and getting everyone to sign petitions to have it published. Heck them still not being announced is one of the reasons that I lost most of my motivation to finish writing WB: Alyeska. What is the point of writing my "amateur" manuscript if KS isn't going to do anything with Greg's? Makes me wonder how many completed manuscripts are sitting on Kevin's desk.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:10 am
  

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Monk

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eliakon wrote:
What I am wondering is what happened to New Navy and Hardware Unlimited?
Both had full texts available to browse at one of the Open Houses.
Finished up to the point of having had spacing for art blocked out.

Why are things like *that* still unprinted?

Was the last one and they're Greg D's.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:15 am
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
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Location: Snoqualmie, WA
Sambot wrote:
blackaeon wrote:

Just got confirmation on shipping for my RAW Lazlo book, so it seems feasible for at least one of the previously mentioned books. I've gone back and forth with feelings about Palladium's release schedule over the years, but at the end of the day, I realized that I waited hopefully for a third season of Twin Peaks since 1991, and I've never been as disappointed with a book I've waited x years for from Palladium as I was with that third dang season. If Palladium was backed by a multinational manufacturing corp that had four and a half billion on hand in cash assets and the toy licenses for most major kids properties at the end of 2020, I reckon someone could rightly feel entitled to expect more frequent releases. As far as generating cash goes outside of RAW prints and the like, I for one missed the Megaversal Insider stuff previously, so that's something I'd be down to clown on if it became a thing again!



I'm not sure about Megaversal Insiders stuff? I am sure though that I'd rather have an unfinished book than no book at all. I know Palladium is a small company and that things happen. It would be nice if books came out regularly and nothing got cancelled but I understand why it doesn't. I'm hoping more books will be produced, late if need be. I would also prefer a finished book but I'll take a RAW one if that's all there is. And with 30 or so cancelled books there must be enough material to create a few RAW editions.


I think they need to stop doing the RAW editions. Sure they drive up sales if the book is good but it also drives down sales if the book isn't good. Leaving the tension and anticipation of getting a complete book makes it so that even if the book isn't the best more people will buy it because they haven't found out what they don't like. I'm almost worried that KS will go to an all RAW format, never publishing another complete product because it is less expensive.

Go from the Palladium, "softback to save you money" to the Neo Palladium no cover, no polish, no art, to save you money. Then Post Neo Palladium "straight from my computer to a PDF no cover, polish, art, or editing... to save you money". Kevin please don't do these I was just kidding.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:26 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:48 am
Posts: 260
Zer0 Kay wrote:
I think they need to stop doing the RAW editions. Sure they drive up sales if the book is good but it also drives down sales if the book isn't good. Leaving the tension and anticipation of getting a complete book makes it so that even if the book isn't the best more people will buy it because they haven't found out what they don't like. I'm almost worried that KS will go to an all RAW format, never publishing another complete product because it is less expensive.

Go from the Palladium, "softback to save you money" to the Neo Palladium no cover, no polish, no art, to save you money. Then Post Neo Palladium "straight from my computer to a PDF no cover, polish, art, or editing... to save you money". Kevin please don't do these I was just kidding.


I hope Palladium doesn't go all RAW editions too. I hope they don't even do it for every book. I do hope that they do it for books stuck in development hell or that had been started and then cancelled. There does seem to be enough to keep the printers busy for a while.

I also think RAW Editions have a value beyond freeing books, or even just pieces, from development hell. I think they're better than pre-orders for gauging customer's reactions. It's not a description of what might be. It's an actual book you can look at. It's like being a test audience for a TV show or movie. You actually get to see the product not just a description. Sure, the final product may be very different but it's still better than paying for an item that never comes. Plus RAWs are good because the reviews can tell you how to proceed.

If the book is well received, give it art and send it to the printers. If the reception was okay, rewrite the areas that weren't liked. If it bombs and is important but still important to the story rewrite it to make it better. If it's not that important cancel it. Books are expensive. Why waste time and money on a book that won't sell? It'd be better to put the resources into a book that will.

I think it could also prevent bad will and impressions. Tension and anticipation are only are a double edged blade. They get the customers attention but what happens once they get the book and don't like it? They're less likely to buy another. OR the book gets left of the shelves which makes the stores less likely to carry other books. If the company knew ahead of time how the book would do they could take steps to make any needed improvements.

I don't think every book needs a RAW edition. I think some things could be put in the Rifter (Please being it back.) Mostly the smaller things that wouldn't take up a small book and previews of things in the works. For bigger things though, I do see the value in having some RAW editions. Especially, if it's RAW or nothing. I'd take a 90% completed book over no book which is what we have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:25 pm
  

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Monk

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Location: Snoqualmie, WA
Sambot wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
I think they need to stop doing the RAW editions. Sure they drive up sales if the book is good but it also drives down sales if the book isn't good. Leaving the tension and anticipation of getting a complete book makes it so that even if the book isn't the best more people will buy it because they haven't found out what they don't like. I'm almost worried that KS will go to an all RAW format, never publishing another complete product because it is less expensive.

Go from the Palladium, "softback to save you money" to the Neo Palladium no cover, no polish, no art, to save you money. Then Post Neo Palladium "straight from my computer to a PDF no cover, polish, art, or editing... to save you money". Kevin please don't do these I was just kidding.


I hope Palladium doesn't go all RAW editions too. I hope they don't even do it for every book. I do hope that they do it for books stuck in development hell or that had been started and then cancelled. There does seem to be enough to keep the printers busy for a while.
Now see there is a good marketing idea. Release the RAW even incomplete manuscripts for all the unpublished backlogged and or killed books. It would increase desire for the stuff we're still waiting for like Mechanoids Space :-D and let us honor the passing of some authors who's works we won't see completed :'(

I also think RAW Editions have a value beyond freeing books, or even just pieces, from development hell. I think they're better than pre-orders for gauging customer's reactions. It's not a description of what might be. It's an actual book you can look at. It's like being a test audience for a TV show or movie. You actually get to see the product not just a description. Sure, the final product may be very different but it's still better than paying for an item that never comes. Plus RAWs are good because the reviews can tell you how to proceed.

If the book is well received, give it art and send it to the printers. If the reception was okay, rewrite the areas that weren't liked. If it bombs and is important but still important to the story rewrite it to make it better. If it's not that important cancel it. Books are expensive. Why waste time and money on a book that won't sell? It'd be better to put the resources into a book that will.

I think it could also prevent bad will and impressions. Tension and anticipation are only are a double edged blade. They get the customers attention but what happens once they get the book and don't like it? They're less likely to buy another. OR the book gets left of the shelves which makes the stores less likely to carry other books. If the company knew ahead of time how the book would do they could take steps to make any needed improvements.
Only good if the RAW don't cost anywhere near the price of the full book. Maybe even make it where if we buy a RAW we get a discount off the Polished version.

I don't think every book needs a RAW edition. I think some things could be put in the Rifter (Please being it back.) Mostly the smaller things that wouldn't take up a small book and previews of things in the works. For bigger things though, I do see the value in having some RAW editions. Especially, if it's RAW or nothing. I'd take a 90% completed book over no book which is what we have now.
agreed

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:15 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:34 pm
Posts: 103
Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.[/quote]


If things are that bad and money is so tight, perhaps it is time to look into seeing if WOTC is interested in either a partnership with Palladium or buying it outright. Either way at least books would come out at a decent rate and the employees of a possible partnership would get the increased benefits WOTC offers to its present employees.

Emerald


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:31 pm
  

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Emerald MoonSilver wrote:
Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.



If things are that bad and money is so tight, perhaps it is time to look into seeing if WOTC is interested in either a partnership with Palladium or buying it outright. Either way at least books would come out at a decent rate and the employees of a possible partnership would get the increased benefits WOTC offers to its present employees.

Emerald[/quote]

Heathen.

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:33 pm
  

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Knight

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Emerald MoonSilver wrote:
Quote:
Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.



If things are that bad and money is so tight, perhaps it is time to look into seeing if WOTC is interested in either a partnership with Palladium or buying it outright. Either way at least books would come out at a decent rate and the employees of a possible partnership would get the increased benefits WOTC offers to its present employees.

Emerald

I don't want to sound mean. But who are we to decide when an owner of a company to sell their company? It's their decision, it's personal, and soul searching. From seeing someone who built a business, and then had to let it go. It's not something that is ever taken lightly.

That being said, IIRC Steve Jackson Games had an open letter to buy other game companies.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:41 pm
  

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Monk

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Tiree wrote:
Emerald MoonSilver wrote:
Quote:
Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.



If things are that bad and money is so tight, perhaps it is time to look into seeing if WOTC is interested in either a partnership with Palladium or buying it outright. Either way at least books would come out at a decent rate and the employees of a possible partnership would get the increased benefits WOTC offers to its present employees.

Emerald

I don't want to sound mean. But who are we to decide when an owner of a company to sell their company? It's their decision, it's personal, and soul searching. From seeing someone who built a business, and then had to let it go. It's not something that is ever taken lightly.

That being said, IIRC Steve Jackson Games had an open letter to buy other game companies.


Right? I'd rather see it go to SJG than have it go to the division of Hasbrouck that has killed more gambling than it has built.

Granted, I'd rather see KS incorporate and offer non controlling shares on the market and pass controlling shares to whomever he wishes (of course I think it should be the fans). After doing so use the capital to maintain a stable of writers and editors. So the company can start really producing books. Maybe even their own press to produce the limited run stuff.

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Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 2:51 pm
  

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Champion

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When KS either retires (HAHAHAHA) or passes, I expect the IP's to be sold and the company to be shuttered.

No real malice in that observation, just an opinion

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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:09 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:48 am
Posts: 260
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Now see there is a good marketing idea. Release the RAW even incomplete manuscripts for all the unpublished backlogged and or killed books. It would increase desire for the stuff we're still waiting for like Mechanoids Space :-D and let us honor the passing of some authors who's works we won't see completed :'(

Only good if the RAW don't cost anywhere near the price of the full book. Maybe even make it where if we buy a RAW we get a discount off the Polished version.



And based on sales Kevin would know whether or not to spend any more time on them.

That would be nice but I don't know how they'd go in practice. Some books might be combined like the Chaos Earth RAW book. Other books may not see a finished version. Plus you can only lower the price of books so much.




Emerald MoonSilver wrote:
Everything else got cancelled, or the manuscript wasn't any good, or any number of reason books don't come out. Things happen. By the way
Wizards of the Coast can provide its staff Health Benefits for Self and Families, Parental Leave, Direct and Indirect Compensation. Kevin only wishes he could
do that for the six people he employees and the many freelancers. Open any D&D book and look how many people are contributing. Author Michael Connelly writes a book during Covid in April and it get edited and on the shelf by January. Not possible for us. Michael Connelly not juggling 15 different things.



If things are that bad and money is so tight, perhaps it is time to look into seeing if WOTC is interested in either a partnership with Palladium or buying it outright. Either way at least books would come out at a decent rate and the employees of a possible partnership would get the increased benefits WOTC offers to its present employees.

Emerald[/quote]


Yes, things happened. That doesn't mean that RAW editions couldn't be produced. Some fans have been waiting a long time for books that are nearly done but aren't being worked on for whatever reason. Publishing these books in a RAW form would make fans happy and give Palladium money.

D&S books are also more expensive even with wider distribution. I also don't think Michael Connelly is having to take orders, pack the books, arrange for shipping, edit others work, select art, deal with printers, pay bills, while writing multiple books. Kevin has way more on his plate than a single book. Probably too much. I wish he'd hire someone or get some interns to help out.

If a partner did come in I don't know that we'd be getting books faster or that the employees would benefit from it. It could mean we get the same amount of books now but they're more expensive because the art is in color and everything is hard bound. At worse the entire game system could change to be compatible with other games that company produces.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:05 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:34 pm
Posts: 103
If there is too high a cost of printing incomplete or raw books, then use a digital format then. You save money on printing and shipping. You buy them online then print them at home. Laser printers are cheap these day and so is paper. SHould only take a few minutes to print a 200 or 300 page book.

Emerald.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 11:14 pm
  

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Knight

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IIRC - if Palladium publishes a RAW Book, that means they would need to pay the writer their fee. So they would need to make sure they print enough copies of RAW that would sell, to cover the cost of paying, printing, shipping, and all the other odds and ends, plus profit.

So what would be that magic number?

So, let's look at Heroes for Humanity, it's a 160 page book, costs 20.95 (say 21). Now we can safely say that Palladium is making a profit at 50%, but they also make a profit at less than that (they sell to wholesalers, and they sell it to FLGS for 50% of cost... so let's say they buy it at 40% of cost.)

That means the book is going to cost around 9 dollars to make (which I'm sure that's really high). So the going rate of paying an independent writer is what, 3k? So they will need to sell at least 3 to 400 copies to break even. Probably even more... so is it worth it?


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 3:52 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:48 am
Posts: 260
You can by a case of paper (1500 sheets) for about $18.00 with tax. That's around 83 sheets of paper per dollar. If we double the cost for printing a 249 page book would cost about $6.00 to make. (The printing cost is probably lower but doubling can include the price of a printer.) A 249 page book sells for around $27.00. You can only get RAWs through Palladium. Even if we add another $3.00 per book for the writer, the total printing cost would be $4,500 for 500 books. Palladium would only need to sell 167 to break even. The sale of the remaining 333 books is all profit.

Granted that doesn't take into account the cost to pay someone to lay out the book and probably other things I'm not aware of but I do think that a RAW edition would be worth it. Especially if its a book fans have been wanting for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Promised Books
Unread postPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:38 am
  

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OK where are the air marshals, this thread has been hijacked and is on its way to Cuba or maybe Schenectady. :D not sure but it is definitely off its flight plan.

Seriously though a lot of these are valid points, many are just abusing a deceased equine, and some are a little...ghoulish.

As stated in the OP why these books were canceled is of limited, if any importance, what I wanted was to try and create a list of books that have been promised but have not yet been published in a finished form as these books have popped into multiple discussion over the last year or so.

As for what happens if KS passes, which I agree with JH is far more likely than his retirement, I know at the 2015 POH they said there was a plan. What that plan is I have no idea or if it has survived the 6 years since but a plan existed. I mean at the 1st POH in 2006 most of us thought that PB was going to be dead and gone by 2007 so the last 15 years have been more or less gravy.

For my part if PBs IPs were to be sold off it is likely I would simply be gone. SJG would probably be the best option of those listed but I have never owned any of their books and I have only played there games at cons. WoC would be death to PB IPs or they would all become card games. Death, card game, same thing I guess.

I will get around, eventually, to adding some of the books mentioned in the thread to the main list and then add to it with things from the MoP and Rifte but it will be awhile.

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