Some rules questions

[Nuristas]

Greetings all,

I have some rule questions.

1. Simultaneous attack: does it cost an action? Does it cost an action when you have WP Paired Weapons?
2. Parry: Parry does not cost an attack. I have 4 actions, my opponent has 11. I can (try to) parry all 11 of his attacks without any consequence on the action economy?
3. Can you disarm a Psi-sword?
4. If parry is free, why would anybody ever dodge in melee if you don't have automatic dodge?
5. Power Punch is 2 actions. Does that mean you do nothing for an action and then Power Punch on action 2? Or is it Power Punch away, it just costs 2 actions?
6. Body Block Tackle only seems to give penalties if you are facing somebody with high Physical Strength? What if you yourself are a powerhouse or of considerable stature?
7. Can you attack somebody performing a hold on you?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and providing an answer, much appreciated.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1 answer would be yes for most characters.

2 For chars with an h2h it does not cost an attack, the char can parry all melee long.

3 good question, my answer is "I don't think so".

4 parry that fireball or plasma blast? not happening. Dodge.

5 depending on the GM ether take a APM to "wined-up" and then strike or takes a APM to "recover" or just mark two APM off your APM for this round.

6 See the super brawl rules in the HU:GMG. *sound of a can being kicks down the road*

7 depends of the type of hold and the type of attack, *splays hands like it is always 'Depends'*, but typically no. the char has to break the 'hold' before they can do full damage attacks.

[tobefrnk]

Palladium’s “Cutting Room Floor” clarification has this for “Power Punch”

Power Punch: A haymaker thrown with everything the character has, his every last ounce of strength. A power punch ALWAYS counts as two melee actions (the blow lands on the second action). A power kick can also be done. For characters with normal P.S., it does double damage in Hit Points and/or S.D.C. (normal punch damage of 1D4 times two plus any possible P.S. or Hand to Hand Combat damage bonus on top of that). Characters with extraordinary augmented P.S. or Supernatural Strength clearly indicate the damage inflicted in the listings presented at the beginning of this section.

[Prysus]

Greetings all,

I have some rule questions.

Greetings and Salutations. I'll help answer the best I can.

1. Simultaneous attack: does it cost an action? Does it cost an action when you have WP Paired Weapons?

Yes, Simultaneous Attacks cost an action per Rifts Game Master Guide (RGMG) page 32 (the question right before the Dodge section).

Side Note 1: I believe the action used is meant to be the character's NEXT melee action. So, if you were in a 1 on 1 battle, and the opponent attacked and you simultaneous attacked, the next action is not yours, but your opponent's move again (because your action was the simultaneous attack). There are several examples for this kind of thing in the books, but none that specifically for Simultaneous Attacks that I'm aware of.

Side Note 2: Attacks, to the best of my knowledge, always cost an attack/action (otherwise a single melee round would never have to end).

All evidence suggests that yes, it costs an action to Simultaneous Attack even with W.P. Paired Weapons. First, you have to figure it's an attack. But, in addition ...

1. Strike and parry simultaneously. In other words, those skilled in W.P. Paired Weapons can often perform two actions for every one melee attack/action.
2. Twin, simultaneous attack strikes ... [snip] ... at once, making it ONE melee attack/action ...

Underlines were added by me for emphasis. Also, in Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE) page 347, under the heading of Simultaneous Attacks (which per RGMG, we know uses an action), they address W.P. Paired Weapons as part of this topic.

2. Parry: Parry does not cost an attack. I have 4 actions, my opponent has 11. I can (try to) parry all 11 of his attacks without any consequence on the action economy?

RUE, page 346, under the Parry heading, any character with hand to hand combat can parry without costing a melee attack/action. Per RUE, page 344, under the Attacks per Melee heading, we're explicitly told that without hand to hand training a each parry "attempt counts as one melee action."

So yes, in a one on one fight, you could potentially parry (or at least attempt) all 11 attacks without any lost of action. Unlimited parries have two main limitations that I can think of.

1: All 11 of the opponent's attacks can be parried, and none of them require a dodge (or other defense mechanism).
2: Per RUE, page 342, under Two Against One heading, you can only parry 3 different attackers at the same time. A fourth will hit without you getting a chance to defend. This is a matter of multiple enemies though, and not the number of individual attacks each possesses.

3. Can you disarm a Psi-sword?

I don't think this is ever specifically addressed, but I don't think so (at least not without taking the arm of the character off).

4. If parry is free, why would anybody ever dodge in melee if you don't have automatic dodge?

Dodge bonuses are often higher, so if you really want to make sure you don't take that hit you might go for the higher bonuses. Other than that, some attacks just can't be parried.

In RGMG, page 30,under the Kick Attacks heading, the Backward Sweep and Tripping/Leg Hook are specifically not as "Cannot be parried."

With exceptions, bullets and energy blasts can't be parried. Rifts Conversion Book (One, Original), page 10 has rules for Dodging and Parrying Energy Weapons. Only a few classes or certain defenses were allowed to parry. Now, the original version of that book is out of print and has been replaced so these rules may no longer be relevant.

Rifts Conversion Book One, Revised Edition (RCB1r), page 19 discusses parrying energy blasts. This requirement is limited to having a suitable item for parrying or blocking the attack. My version of RCB1r (First Printing) also has dodge rules that are no longer in use (older printings may have different information).

RGMG, page 33 (second printing) discusses how most ranged attacks can't be parried or dodged at all. These dodge rules are also no longer in use.

RUE, page 361 has Dodge rules, but does not mention Parry at all. I believe the intent is that parrying is impossible (based on rules from previous books), but this is not outright stated that I can see.

5. Power Punch is 2 actions. Does that mean you do nothing for an action and then Power Punch on action 2? Or is it Power Punch away, it just costs 2 actions?

I don't think the books ever state clearly. I've always ruled that it lands on the second action, and I have my reasons for it, but your mileage may vary. tobefrnk posts information from the Cutting Room Floor, but I believe that's the Q&A section which wasn't very official (even though it's on the Official Site) as parts are fan answered and/or contradict answers in the book. It's useful to reference, but just be aware the answers may not be from actual Palladium staff.

6. Body Block Tackle only seems to give penalties if you are facing somebody with high Physical Strength? What if you yourself are a powerhouse or of considerable stature?

No rules for this that I'm aware of. drewkitty ~..~ mentioned rules from Heroes Unlimited Game Master Guide, but I don't honestly know. That's not a book I know very well.

7. Can you attack somebody performing a hold on you?

Per RUE, page 345, under the Holds heading: "Neither the attacker nor the victim can attack, parry or dodge while the hold is working."

So both the person initiating the hold and the victim of the hold are helpless (cannot attack or defend). Holds work best when you have a teammate that can assist.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and providing an answer, much appreciated.

Always happy to assist another fan of the system. I didn't have all the answers, but hopefully enough to have helped. Farewell and safe journeys.

[ShadowLogan]

1. Simultaneous attack does consume an attack, even if WP: Paired is used. Though there are 2 versions. The first is available to everyone, all it does is just move when the action takes place. The second with WP: Paired still uses an action when you use two weapons to attack simultaneously, but the two weapons attack only counts as 1 action (as previously noted).

2. Yes that is correct, though there might be limitations.

3. No. The only way to disarm a Psi-Sword is to 1). Kill the psionic or 2). knockout the psionic or 3). run the time out

4. Probability of success, a Dodge has higher bonuses than Parry for the typical characters. Not to mention Dodge and Parry have different restrictions on when they can be done and what if any penalties might be encountered.

5. Since an action is not a fixed length of time (eg. 5APM = 3sec per apm VS 4APM=3.75sec per apm), I would just say it costs 2 actions and resolve everything on the first, though realistically this is going to be a GM call.

6. Others have covered it, I don't think it gets covered in Rifts.

7. Others have covered it.

[Blue_Lion]

1 yes it takes an attack.
2 yes you can parry more attacks than you have.
3 Mechanically nothing says you can't but nothing says you can do it specifically. so leave it to the GM to make the call.
4 Dodge is typically used when you can not parry an attack. or when it has a higher chance of success. There are also mellee weapons that can not be used to parry. (wilks laser knife/sword)
5 I believe it is not specified so it is up to how the gm handles multi action attacks.
6 then there are no penalties to do the action.
7 holds typically do not allow the held charter to attack. The only action allowed as I understand it is an escape attempted by the held character. (not always realistic, you can look up specific holds and joint locks in books like japan, or Ninjas and superspies.)

[Killer Cyborg]

4 Dodge is typically used when you can not parry an attack. or when it has a higher chance of success. There are also melee weapons that can not be used to parry. (wilks laser knife/sword)

Come to think of it, one of my players had a character with autododge, and would generally us THAT instead of parry, freeing up both hands for constant paired claw attacks.
That's another angle.
And hey, some character might just have a much higher dodge bonus; spending an action on something that will most likely work is often preferable to a free action that probably won't.

[kirnos]

4 Dodge is typically used when you can not parry an attack. or when it has a higher chance of success. There are also melee weapons that can not be used to parry. (wilks laser knife/sword)

Come to think of it, one of my players had a character with autododge, and would generally us THAT instead of parry, freeing up both hands for constant paired claw attacks.
That's another angle.
And hey, some character might just have a much higher dodge bonus; spending an action on something that will most likely work is often preferable to a free action that probably won't.

I was under the impression that dodge was what you use in melee when you can't parry, specifically that if you don't have a weapon you can't parry a weapon attack. Parrying that vibroblade with your bare hands gonna hurt.
But I can be wrong, as has been ages since I last read the rules. Maybe the rules make no distinction? Perhaps take into account redirecting the attack of a weapon?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was under the impression that dodge was what you use in melee when you can't parry, specifically that if you don't have a weapon you can't parry a weapon attack. Parrying that vibroblade with your bare hands gonna hurt.
But I can be wrong, as has been ages since I last read the rules. Maybe the rules make no distinction? Perhaps take into account redirecting the attack of a weapon?

Yes Dodging is what you'd use when you can't parry an attack. Like your example of a vibe-blade attack when caught w/o a MDC 'something' to parry with. Or if a mage shoots a fireball at your char is a dodging event...unless you want to take it to make a simu. attack.

As a GM I would rule that only chars with h2h MA or a MAF could attempt to parry a MD blade attack bare handed. I would also require the player to describe (story like) what they intend to do if they take that action.

[The Beast]

4 Dodge is typically used when you can not parry an attack. or when it has a higher chance of success. There are also melee weapons that can not be used to parry. (wilks laser knife/sword)

Come to think of it, one of my players had a character with autododge, and would generally us THAT instead of parry, freeing up both hands for constant paired claw attacks.
That's another angle.
And hey, some character might just have a much higher dodge bonus; spending an action on something that will most likely work is often preferable to a free action that probably won't.

I was under the impression that dodge was what you use in melee when you can't parry, specifically that if you don't have a weapon you can't parry a weapon attack. Parrying that vibroblade with your bare hands gonna hurt.
But I can be wrong, as has been ages since I last read the rules. Maybe the rules make no distinction? Perhaps take into account redirecting the attack of a weapon?

Old rule was that you could dodge whenever you wanted, it's just that dodging took your next attack/action. I think the current rule is that is just takes an attack/action for your total, not specifically your next one. However since auto-dodge doesn't use up an attack/action there's no reason not to use it whenever you want except for the possibility of your parry bonus being higher than your auto-dodge bonus.

[Killer Cyborg]

Characters can dodge any time a successful strike roll is made against them, barring Surprise Attacks or other exceptions.
Players typically rely on autoparry instead when they can, but there's nothing in the rules that bans anybody from dodging instead of parrying. If a character has +18 to parry, and +1 to dodge, they can still attempt to dodge every attack.
The rules don't forbid foolishness or attempting unusual plans.

In a case where a character has both autododge and autoparry becomes MUCH less significant, and generally people go with whatever has the better bonuses, and/or whichever better fits the circumstances.
Some advantages of autododge over autoparry, all else being equal, include:
1. Some attacks can technically be parried, but still have some consequences for coming into physical contact with the attack. You could parry a Molotov Cocktail, for example, but the result would likely be setting your weapon and/or arm on fire.
2. More things can be dodged than can be parried.
3. Dodging does not require use of one's arms/weapons, leaving them free to do things like make paired attacks at the enemy.
4. Dodging is a kind of movement, and sometimes movement can be tactically important even if the GM rules it's only a single step or two. If you're standing next to cover, you can often Dodge behind cover in reaction to an attack, for example. Or under a barrage of attacks, you can sometimes use dodging to either advance or retreat.