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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:59 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Kevin's previewing some psionic powers for an upcoming book. I thought this might be a good spot to talk about them. This one's excerpted from Kevin's murmur on Sep 22, 2020

© 2020 Palladium Books, Inc. Kevin Siembieda wrote:
A Healing Psionic Ability: Call To Life
Range: Touch or within two feet (0.6 m) of the corpse.
Duration: Permanent results, but requires 1D4 melee rounds of focus and concentration by the psychic. If the person does not respond at the end of the 1D4 melee rounds, he or she is gone. Dead.
Saving Throw: None if the subject wants to live, standard if the subject has given up and doesn’t want to life.
I.S.P.: 8

This is exactly what it sounds like, the psychic reaches into the ether to call the life force that has departed the body to return by following the sound of his voice (or thoughts). The Call to Life may be spoken aloud or be silent through thought and will power. Only the psychic and the departed hear both sides of any possible discussion on the matter.

Call to Life can only be attempted up to 12 minutes after death while the spirit of the deceased is still in a wandering limbo state looking “for the light” to follow into the afterlife.

Ideally, the body should be physically in one piece and largely undamaged.

90% chance of success to call a person back from the dead (near death actually) who have been asphyxiated/suffocated/strangled, drowned, died from freezing/hypothermia, heart attack, or stroke, but their neck/spine is not broken, and there is little or no other serious injury or damage to their body. These individuals make a full recovery within 3D6+6 minutes. Until then they are reduce their normal speed, number of melee attacks, bonuses, and skill performance by half.

70% chance of success with people who have died from poison, stroke, smoke inhalation or a recoverable disease such as influenza, pneumonia, small pox, measles, and similar illnesses. These individuals make a full recovery within 1D6 days. Until then they are reduce their normal speed, number of melee attacks, bonuses, and skill performance by half.

40% chance of a temporary reprieve and return to life for only 2D6 minutes, unless their body has been successfully restored/healed via some other means such as surgery, magic, etc.. This applies to people who have died from severe injury, multiple and severe wounds, broken spine or neck, loss of limb(s), severe blood loss, internal injuries, fire, infection, chronic disease (cancer, heart disease, tuberculosis, etc.), or died in the midst of surgery. In these extreme and tragic cases, however, the return to life is only for 2D6 minutes. Enough time to say goodbye or to share vital information before they die. The only exception is if the damage to their body can be somehow restored or healed quickly, whether by magic, psionics, or advanced technology and medicine.

Note: Call to Life does NOT restore damage done to the body or the mind, nor does it kill disease or heal physical injuries. It simply calls the person’s life force back into its body. Any damage, poison, disease must be treated/healed via medicine, magic, or psionics, otherwise the individual continues to suffer and quickly relapses and dies again.

Recovery after being Called to Life: In the first two cases, the person called back to life returns with 1D6 Hit Points (or M.D.C. as the case may be) that will quickly drain away if the individual continues to suffer from wounds, internal bleeding, and other grievous injury or illness that has not been addressed. If the body is whole and largely undamaged, the individual will recover completely. Hit Points are restored by whatever is the normal recovery rate for that being and/or via magic or psionic healing.

Call to Life can be performed repeatedly on the same person, however, each subsequent attempt see a cumulative -20% penalty applied to it.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:53 pm
  

Knight

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Good idea!
Hope to see more previews?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:01 pm
  

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My 1st thought when seeing the posted pre-view was ""Power Creep"".

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:18 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
My 1st thought when seeing the posted pre-view was ""Power Creep"".

I think the lack of healing and restoration, coupled with the chance of failure, help keep this power from being overpowered.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:48 pm
  

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Father Goose wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
My 1st thought when seeing the posted pre-view was ""Power Creep"".

I think the lack of healing and restoration, coupled with the chance of failure, help keep this power from being overpowered.

And it creeps into the area where priestly powers and magic have their shtick. Which makes the priests and mages less unique in what powers they have. Thus, turning the game as a whole just a little bit more banal. (ie boring).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:14 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Father Goose wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
My 1st thought when seeing the posted pre-view was ""Power Creep"".

I think the lack of healing and restoration, coupled with the chance of failure, help keep this power from being overpowered.

And it creeps into the area where priestly powers and magic have their shtick. Which makes the priests and mages less unique in what powers they have. Thus, turning the game as a whole just a little bit more banal. (ie boring).

And magic has astral projection and telekinesis which gets into psionics shtick. Psionics have telemechanics and other powers that get into area that are dominated by skills. As someone that has constantly criticized books for power creep I'm pretty happy with the powers so far and I'm going to agree with FG on this.

I love new powers and new equipment as long as it doesn't make old powers and equipment obsolete and that it has limits. So far I like what I've been seeing.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:31 am
  

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CTL seems like a good thing to plumb for new "meta knowledge" about afterlife/spirit/ghosts which many express curiosity about the mechanics of.

"the ether" is where the "life force" departs to upon death...

"the departed" can "hear" either actual words or thoughts by the user of the power...

this established a fixed 12 minute "wandering limbo" period post-death. Utu is pleased.

Apparently "the light" is what all souls search for, regardless of alignment.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:53 am
  

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A couple of outliers notwithstanding, psionic healing can benefit from a bit of a shot in the arm. I think the addition of a couple of powers like the above, and a combat medic-oriented Psi-Healer O.C.C. are a nice way in which to do so. That the Call to Life ability helps clarify some setting metaphysical constraints is a pleasant bonus.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:01 am
  

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I might also point out that this RESURECTION psi power should be a SUPER PSIONIC! Not a lowly 'healing' psi. And the IS cost is too low.

This is just power creep by the numbers x100. For this example.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:53 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I might also point out that this RESURECTION psi power should be a SUPER PSIONIC! Not a lowly 'healing' psi. And the IS cost is too low.

This is just power creep by the numbers x100. For this example.

If you're talking about Call to Life I have to disagree. This is NOT resurrection it is more like the psionic equivalent to a defibrillator. It is limited to 12 minutes and the percentages are kind of low for most injuries that are sustained in Rifts like MDC explosives or energy weapons.

I do agree that this should be a super-psionic power but my reason for that is more to the fact that this power is a combination of sensitive and healing.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:02 pm
  

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12 minutes after death. Defined by the text as after the spirit has left the body. which means the char is good and dead. Not just the pump stop working.

The power yanks the spirit back into the dead body, same thing a resurrection spell /divine power does.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:53 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
12 minutes after death. Defined by the text as after the spirit has left the body. which means the char is good and dead. Not just the pump stop working.

The power yanks the spirit back into the dead body, same thing a resurrection spell /divine power does.

The problem is you keep referring to this as resurrection which it clearly isn't. Resurrection restores all HP while CtL doesn't. Resurrection heals injuries even heals the wounds caused by missing limbs while CtL is pretty explicate that if you don't take care of those injuries before you use CtL the person will just die again. Most importantly Resurrection has a 2 month window not 12 minutes.

I have GMd PB games since the '80's and Rifts since it came out. Had lots of PC's die, several brought back buy resurrection spell and truthfully I can't think of a single death that could have been reversed by this power. It is great if your PC encounters a group of refugees and a child has just drowned in a stream. But it is useless if you were hit by a pulse laser, or dying in a helicopter or sky cycle crash.

Thinking back the only death that might be reversed by this was when a character trampled, in armor, by a robot version of a rhino buffalo but even then you would need massive psychic healing to restore the body after CtL is used, actual Resurrection does that on its own.

Finally I'm glad we are getting some upgraded psi powers. With all the new tech and magic (both spells and objects/TW) psionics have been pretty weak sauce. It is rare in most games I have, heroes or Rifts, for a player to choose a PCC. Mostly it is an add on, I'm a man-at-arms with minor psi, I'm a mage with major psionics. I want more high powered psionics to rival tech and magic, CtL isn't it though.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:25 pm
  

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Sorry but your misunderstanding me was due to there are names of items in the game which are the same as the WORD I was using. I will try to explain.

Resurrection, the core idea in the word it is that it makes the subject of it Alive Again after being 'Dead'.

I was not talking about a specific spell or specific priestly Deific power. But the 'concept', the idea that the word resurrection stands for.

This is what I meant by correctly understanding it and to be correctly using the word as it means that the above psionic power to be a Resurrection power that was encroaching into the area of uniqueness that is held by magic and Deific powers.

As such your quoting what the Resurrection Spell does, except in that 'it makes the subject alive again after being dead,' means nothing to this. This is because you misunderstood me. I was using 'a word', not 'a name'.

Now the word Dead, means 'no longer alive' as a core concept. And as the text of the psi power defined this as as the spirit of the person having departed the body. [Which is the correct meaning of Dead, not the ""legal"" heart is stopped dead.] (yes, I paraphrased the text to draw out what the text means because the text says it in a obfuscated way. So get out your critical reading hat before you knee jerk a response out without using your thinking brain.)

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:06 pm
  

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Call to Life, does seem to be very resurrection like. Sure there is a very narrow window of use, but the ISP cost is pretty cheap (8ISP) where magic is much more (assuming 1 PPE = 2 ISP) 124 PPE for Tattoo Magic and 650 PPE for Wiz. Invocation. These magics have a much larger window, but the duration the target spent dead does not impact the PPE cost. It would seem like something simpler like having the power allow a reroll of a FAILED Saving Throw vs Death would be better than treating it as psychic "Resurrection" (at least for the current ISP cost, something more expensive/limiting would seem to be in order).

The other preview powers up in Murmurs also seem unnecessary/broken ("Spirit Blade" is basically an interior Psi-Sword IMHO, and "Brain Fog" has aspects of a few Mind Bleeder powers rolled into one some of which cost more ISP).


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:18 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Sorry but your misunderstanding me was due to there are names of items in the game which are the same as the WORD I was using. I will try to explain.

Resurrection, the core idea in the word it is that it makes the subject of it Alive Again after being 'Dead'.

I was not talking about a specific spell or specific priestly Deific power. But the 'concept', the idea that the word resurrection stands for.

This is what I meant by correctly understanding it and to be correctly using the word as it means that the above psionic power to be a Resurrection power that was encroaching into the area of uniqueness that is held by magic and Deific powers.

As such your quoting what the Resurrection Spell does, except in that 'it makes the subject alive again after being dead,' means nothing to this. This is because you misunderstood me. I was using 'a word', not 'a name'.

Now the word Dead, means 'no longer alive' as a core concept. And as the text of the psi power defined this as as the spirit of the person having departed the body. [Which is the correct meaning of Dead, not the ""legal"" heart is stopped dead.] (yes, I paraphrased the text to draw out what the text means because the text says it in a obfuscated way. So get out your critical reading hat before you knee jerk a response out without using your thinking brain.)

I can only respond to what you say not what you think, here is your original statement.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
12 minutes after death. Defined by the text as after the spirit has left the body. which means the char is good and dead. Not just the pump stop working.

The power yanks the spirit back into the dead body, same thing a resurrection spell /divine power does.

I have no problem with somebody calling this psychic resurrection but you literally compare it to the spell in your post so your new post doesn't make any sense. I not only used critical reading skill but did some active analysis based what you actually posted. If that is a problem I would suggest that you try to write what you think the first time as that is the only thing I can work from. You said this is power creep, a simple analysis of existing spells and technology show that it isn't.

Also I outlined several reasons why, regardless of your use of the word, this power is not a real game changer which I notice you don't even attempt to refute in your post. This is a game, the power has stats that work in game what does that mean for the balance of the game. I think all of us understand what the words resurrection and dead mean but since this is a game I thought I would focus on how this power can and cannot be used in the game and since you mentioned the resurrection spell specifically I though I would do a little comparison for us to evaluate.

I will also remind you that your first post on this topic was
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
My 1st thought when seeing the posted pre-view was ""Power Creep"".


Nothing you said in your last post has anything to do with this game, this power or any of your previous posts. Also nothing in your prior posts draws out obfuscated text from the power. First the powers description is surprisingly clear with real examples of when it can and cannot be use and, as it has already been pointed out, some interesting meta on afterlife in PB setting.

As I said when you look at the stats for this power it just isn't that useful and truthfully in Rifts I don't even predict that many players choosing it. Now it would be a great power for a Mystic Mage or some sort of Shaman NPC but no PC is really going to take it unless you have a campaign set in the Ocean and none of the PCs have the swimming skill :-D Just a little reference to one of the few situations where this power actually works.

ShadowLogan wrote:
Call to Life, does seem to be very resurrection like. Sure there is a very narrow window of use, but the ISP cost is pretty cheap (8ISP) where magic is much more (assuming 1 PPE = 2 ISP) 124 PPE for Tattoo Magic and 650 PPE for Wiz. Invocation. These magics have a much larger window, but the duration the target spent dead does not impact the PPE cost. It would seem like something simpler like having the power allow a reroll of a FAILED Saving Throw vs Death would be better than treating it as psychic "Resurrection" (at least for the current ISP cost, something more expensive/limiting would seem to be in order).

If we have now left the world of Rifts behind and are simply going by a definition of the word than yes it is resurrection. However, if we go by the new information in the power description where a spirit leaves a body after it has drown for instance then all of the sudden a defibrillator and CPR become resurrection like. Heck CPR is better than CtL because it reliable works for 15 minutes after drowning and if you drown in cold enough water it can revive you 2 hours later not some crappy 12 minutes.

Also I get your point about the relative ISP cost vs PPE of other spells and abilities but you're missing vital context. Those other powers all restore some health, usually all hit points, while this power doesn't. You are basically looking at Mind Bolt and saying it's better than the Annihilate spell because the ISP cost is so much lower than the PPE cost of the spell.

Again if you drown, I get you out of the water, use this power, roll 90% or lower your alive. If you are out of the water you took some HP damage but you likely have enough to stay alive.

Now if I trample you with a rhino buffalo all your HP and SDC are gone, your bones are broken, organs crushed, this power will do NOTHING. If I hook your body up to the most advanced life support on Rifts Earth, because you know every PC group has that within 12 minutes travel of every encounter, or have mages or psychics ready with healing to restore you in 2D6 minutes I can attempt, 40% chance, to draw your spirit back into your horribly mangled body so you can suffer horribly while they try to restore a few of your HPs.

I just changed my mind, this has to be a low level Healing power. No PC would ever waste a super psionic choice on this ability.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:53 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
12 minutes after death. Defined by the text as after the spirit has left the body. which means the char is good and dead. Not just the pump stop working.

The power yanks the spirit back into the dead body, same thing a resurrection spell /divine power does.

Here is me defining what I was talking about.
This is also the core concept of These spells/granted powers. That 'these' do other things too didn't matter to the sentence as presented.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:22 pm
  

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It's enough like my own 'Spark of Life' spell that I can't complain about it either way.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:04 am
  

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I have worked plenty of cardiac arrests outlined in this power where we were able to get them “alive” (pulses/spontaneous circulation) back to a hospital. Would never go so far as to call it “resurrection.” This sounds like psychic paramedicine and seems (imho) to sit fine as a healing power. Without the power, you should just need skills and equipment. Base chances might be lower but it’s an action RPG. Time of death (or “near-death” as it states) to getting hands on the victim seems about right for a good outcome. Except maybe saltwater drowning. That could be much longer.

Edit: a word


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:51 am
  

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Palladin

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Seems pretty clear cut to me.
The power establishes that it is "near death" for 12 minutes, and then "real death" sets in.
As such... it isn't a full resurection per se.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
  

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D-Bee

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My only concern is the cost. Lust for Life does something similar and it costs 15 ISP. This is a lot more powerful for only 8 ISP. Seems like it should be more in the 30 ISP range.


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