Earth Defenders packs - visual

[glitterboy2098]

Earth Defenders Blister Packs

We have been working with GHQ and Carmen Bellaire with input from Mike Arnold and Thomas Roache to expand the range of combat on the battlefield. This should help provide more fun and options while we all wait for RRT Wave Two. Plus, these Earth Defenders are the type of vehicles and troops that gamers interested in the Macross Malcontents can also use to develop and play that faction. We have put together what we all agree are six fun Earth Defender Blister Packs.

1. Apache Combat Helicopter (1) – http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m- ... AC23-b.jpg

2. A-10 Warthog Jet (1) - http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m- ... AC5-b2.jpg

3. T-55MV Tanks (4 per pack) - http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m- ... W100-b.jpg

4. Cougar 6x6 APCs (4 per pack) - http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m- ... 526-b1.jpg

5. Convoy Trucks (4 per pack) - this one i'm not sure about, but most likely something like this: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m-images/n129.jpg

6. Infantry Troops (8 troops per base for 24 or 32 total figs; some heavy weapons) - GHQ has a lot of options here, but i'd guess either this: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m- ... N125-b.jpg
this: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m-images/tw12.jpg
or this: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/media/m-images%5CTW8.jpg
depending on whether the pack is supposed to represent UEDF infantry, allied non-UEDF forces, or malcontents primarily.


if i had to guess, i suspect the Apache and A-10 will be UEDF units, the T-55MV will be a malcontent unit, and the Cougars, Trucks, and Infantry will have cards for both UEDF and malcontent use.

[LtPebbles]

Thanks for the pic links.

I have difficulty imagining how useful any of these units will be in game. They seem awfully outclassed by the Robotech powered units. I'm going to have to see the stat cards before I think about picking some up.

(But, dayum, that A-10 is one sexy plane.)

[wilycoyote]

THe A-10 might be sexy but Robotech?

If you want to get GHQ figures not sure why you want to preorder, you get a better deal direct and possibly a better (well at least personal choice)

Agree though not sure in game terms what use these will be, they should be very underpowered

[jedi078]

I know people have mentioned that price wise you can get the same GHQ minis direct for a lower cost, but if you factor in the bases and stat cards that are included the increased price is really that extra stuff.

I'd like to see the force organization (how many in a squad/squadron) and stats (how much MDC to they have? How much damage cab they dish out?) for these conventional vehicles before to purchasing them.

As for infantry.....not too interested in them since unless they are carrying anti-tank weapons (i.e. anti-tank missiles) infantrymen with rifles shouldn't be able to dent a mecha.

[glitterboy2098]

can't answer about the stats, but the latest PB update provides a few hints at organization..


Apache Combat Helicopter (1) – Includes flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm).
A-10 Warthog Jet (1) with big gun for ground attack, plus flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm).
these two are clearly one to a base, and thus certainly one to a card.

T-55MV Tanks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
Cougar 6x6 APCs (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
Convoy Trucks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
looks like 1 figure per base, and i'd guess 4 vehicles to a card (these probably have both UEDF and Malcontent variants)

Infantry Troops (8 troops per base for 32 total figs; some heavy weapons), 4 cards and 4 bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
8 troops (about a squad) per base.. looks like 2 bases per card, if we assume these come with both UEDF and malcontent cards. if the cards include weapons variations of some kind, it could be 4 bases to a card.

if i had to guess, these will probably be support cards rather than core.. but i might be wrong.

honestly it'll be interesting to see how they handle the infantry, as well as the APC's troop transport ability.

i also wonder if they'll remember the T-55MV's Kontakt-1 reactive armor and it's ability to fire the 9M117 Bastion (AT-10 Stabber) laser guided Anti-tank missile.. which ought to help make the tank more survivable in the MDC enviroment. (ERA should help reduce the destructive power of missiles, and the AT-10 missiles could be fitted with MD warheads just as easily as the HEAT rounds it normally fires from the gun)

T-55M (Ob'yekt 155M)/T-55AM (Ob'yekt 155AM)[100] - Modernization of respectively T-55 and T-55A with new "Volna" fire control system, 9K116-1 "Bastion" ATGM system with new 1K13 BOM guidance device/sight, improved "Tsiklon-M1" gun stabilization system and TShSM-32PV sights, V-55U engine,[103] improved suspension and RMSh tracks, increased armour, anti-mine, anti-napalm and improved anti-radiation protection and new R-173/173P radio set . Visual differences include a laser range-finder in an armoured box fitted over the main armament, side skirts, 81mm "Tucha" smoke grenade launchers, BDD turret brow armour and glacis appliqué, and rear RPG screens (only used rarely in Afghanistan)

T-55MV (Ob'yekt 155MV)/T-55AMV (Ob'yekt 155AMV) [100][106] - "V" for vzryvnoj ('explosive') designated tanks which carried "Kontakt-1" explosive reactive armour (ERA) instead of the passive BDD armour. The ERA bricks (EDZ or elementi dinamicheskoj zashchity) are normally mounted on the turret front, hull front and the hull sides. This variant was adopted by Soviet Naval Infantry first, and by the Russian Army after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The T-55MV is a modernized T-55M and the T-55AMV is a modernized T-55AM.

[Alpha 11]

can't answer about the stats, but the latest PB update provides a few hints at organization..


Apache Combat Helicopter (1) – Includes flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm).
A-10 Warthog Jet (1) with big gun for ground attack, plus flight stand, base and stat card; 1/285th scale (6mm).
these two are clearly one to a base, and thus certainly one to a card.

T-55MV Tanks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
Cougar 6x6 APCs (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
Convoy Trucks (4 per pack), plus 2 stat cards and four bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
looks like 1 figure per base, and i'd guess 4 vehicles to a card (these probably have both UEDF and Malcontent variants)

Infantry Troops (8 troops per base for 32 total figs; some heavy weapons), 4 cards and 4 bases; 1/285th scale (6mm).
8 troops (about a squad) per base.. looks like 2 bases per card, if we assume these come with both UEDF and malcontent cards. if the cards include weapons variations of some kind, it could be 4 bases to a card.

if i had to guess, these will probably be support cards rather than core.. but i might be wrong.

honestly it'll be interesting to see how they handle the infantry, as well as the APC's troop transport ability.

i also wonder if they'll remember the T-55MV's Kontakt-1 reactive armor and it's ability to fire the 9M117 Bastion (AT-10 Stabber) laser guided Anti-tank missile.. which ought to help make the tank more survivable in the MDC enviroment. (ERA should help reduce the destructive power of missiles, and the AT-10 missiles could be fitted with MD warheads just as easily as the HEAT rounds it normally fires from the gun)

T-55M (Ob'yekt 155M)/T-55AM (Ob'yekt 155AM)[100] - Modernization of respectively T-55 and T-55A with new "Volna" fire control system, 9K116-1 "Bastion" ATGM system with new 1K13 BOM guidance device/sight, improved "Tsiklon-M1" gun stabilization system and TShSM-32PV sights, V-55U engine,[103] improved suspension and RMSh tracks, increased armour, anti-mine, anti-napalm and improved anti-radiation protection and new R-173/173P radio set . Visual differences include a laser range-finder in an armoured box fitted over the main armament, side skirts, 81mm "Tucha" smoke grenade launchers, BDD turret brow armour and glacis appliqué, and rear RPG screens (only used rarely in Afghanistan)

T-55MV (Ob'yekt 155MV)/T-55AMV (Ob'yekt 155AMV) [100][106] - "V" for vzryvnoj ('explosive') designated tanks which carried "Kontakt-1" explosive reactive armour (ERA) instead of the passive BDD armour. The ERA bricks (EDZ or elementi dinamicheskoj zashchity) are normally mounted on the turret front, hull front and the hull sides. This variant was adopted by Soviet Naval Infantry first, and by the Russian Army after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The T-55MV is a modernized T-55M and the T-55AMV is a modernized T-55AM.

Kind of figured as much. And thanks for the info at the bottom.

[jedi078]

can't answer about the stats, but the latest PB update provides a few hints at organization..

I can see four T-55's or MRAP's being a support card but would a single A-10 or AH-64 be on a support card? Or would it be two A-10's or 2 AH-64's?

That's what I want to see. Not how many vehicles are in each pack as sold, but how many vehicles will be on a support card.

[glitterboy2098]

can't answer about the stats, but the latest PB update provides a few hints at organization..

I can see four T-55's or MRAP's being a support card but would a single A-10 or AH-64 be on a support card? Or would it be two A-10's or 2 AH-64's?

That's what I want to see. Not how many vehicles are in each pack as sold, but how many vehicles will be on a support card.

given that we're actually being told how many cards come with a pack, and RTT so far includes a full unit plus the main unit card* for each expansion pack, i'm inclined to assume 1 A-10 or Apache per unit.

[Morgan Vening]

given that we're actually being told how many cards come with a pack, and RTT so far includes a full unit plus the main unit card* for each expansion pack, i'm inclined to assume 1 A-10 or Apache per unit.

It'd bring up a potential points/balance/in-game-reality issue though. If a single A-10/Apache is a Support card, it's going to either be worth stuff all (as conventional forces weren't a threat to the Zentradi), and Destroids are already in the 15-20pt range. Meaning either these things are worth in the low single digit range at BEST, or they're put as a more significant threat than they're supposed to be.

If they're done as Core cards, it gets much much worse, as anyone who's played an alternating activation system and seen what chaff units do to it, will be able to attest.

When I saw that conventional forces were going to be included, at the prices listed, it was the first thing that came to mind. Either the real world cost of fielding them was going to be astronomical (dollars spent vs points fieldable), or the stats would have to be bent significantly for that not to be the case.

We'll know when the stats are posted, which should be this weekend.

Jun 14 2015
The good news is that we are currently putting the finishing touches on the squad sizes, point costs and related rules and special abilities for these vehicles and Micronian infantry. These stats and info will be posted next week for your reference and to assist you with rounding out your squadrons and platoons. These units really add some nice strategies and flavors to the battlefield.

[glitterboy2098]

actually an A-10 could easily be a support card on its own..

the GAU-8 seven barrel 30mm gatling, if loaded with uptodate munitions, would easily be in the same realm of firepower as a GU-11. (the GU-11 fires bigger shells.. but the GAU-8 would put a lot more shells down range because of its super high rate of fire)
and the A-10's missile/bomb capacity is larger than that of the VF-1's (7,260kg for the A-10 across 11 pylons, 5000kg for the VF-1 across 4 pylons)
while the A-10 can;t carry the biggest missiles, it could pack loads of bombs, MRm's, and Minimissile pods that beggar belief.

so in terms of firepower it can certainly bring the hurt. but it would be something of a sledgehammer armed eggshell, since for all its toughness i doubt it would have much MDC. (given the fact the F-203 and the karyovin are MDc planes, it seems that pre-robotechnology jets did get MDC versions made before the 1st war. but they do tend to be a bit light on the MDC compared to mecha)

the Apache is not too dissimilar.. it's 30mm chaingun is wimpier, but it's 3000Kg or so of munitions storage would allow it to carry a useful payload of missiles.

[Kryptt]

I just wish Kevin would give us what we backers really want. A detailed wave two update or just that they can't afford it for now if that's the case. Hard to stay optimistic when we're given the run around. I'm sure there will be folks who order the new items which is fine an all. But all this new stuff is moot if they can't get wave two out. According to Kevin's big update he wrote this:

"To be honest, we have been so savaged for the many delays and changing release dates in the past, that we are afraid to offer release dates or certain details until we are sure of them. That has resulted in fewer updates over the past few months. In fact, I have had several advisors tell me not to even say that we are trying hard for an end of 2015 release for Wave Two."

Not posting actual wave two information seems to be just as if not more detrimental. If Kevin is so worried about giving release dates then he should just post what is happening with the development of the models and show pictures of what's done and what is currently being worked on. By now all the backers know that if PB gives a date just add several weeks, months or years. I'm not saying this to disparage the man, but for those new to PB we can all see a pattern. Since he already gave a release date which no one believes will happen, all that's left is for him to show and tell. It would be most appreciated by many backers including myself.

Warning: There's enough other threads about that. There's no need to derail this thread.

[ronekiln]

I would be ok with the conventional forces if Palladium was giving backers the stat cards for free via pdf downloads and people could then buy them more affordably from any manufacturer they wanted.

As it currently stands, this more of a slap than peace offering to many backers point of view. I had no expectation of getting anything from this anywhere near on time. I'm not bothered by the delay so much as by how Palladium almost appears to be intentionally aggravating their supporters.

[slaaneshgod]

Anyone heard anything on the stats for these yet

[Morgan Vening]

Anyone heard anything on the stats for these yet

Not yet, but don't worry, you've got two weeks to lock in your order.

I mean what could go wrong, pre-ordering stuff with incomplete knowledge?

[ZINO]

ARE THERE ANY CARDS THAT GO WITH THESE : Earth Defenders?

[Kryptt]

ARE THERE ANY CARDS THAT GO WITH THESE : Earth Defenders?

Staying on topic, yes Mike is playtesting them now as we speak. In fact the reason why there was no update last week. Although Wayne could have just posted a wave two update without mentioning the new units.

Man I hope I don't get reported or warmed again.lol

EDIT: We've already warned you once for trolling the moderation team, do you really want a two-for-one?

[Morgan Vening]

I know that Mike's said that the stats were being reviewed by people outside PB. Though of course, no official word has come down about the delay. What was supposed to be four weeks or so of consideration between getting the stats and compositions, is now no more than one, with the pre-order deadline being next Wednesday.

Heck, unless they've got a printer on standby, if the stats aren't confirmed very shortly, having these available for GenCon in any kind of promotional (1 per customer) quantity is out the window. I understand the desire to get it right, but sometimes you need to prioritize. And it seems clear that the RPG books have priority.

[Alpha 11]

I know that Mike's said that the stats were being reviewed by people outside PB. Though of course, no official word has come down about the delay. What was supposed to be four weeks or so of consideration between getting the stats and compositions, is now no more than one, with the pre-order deadline being next Wednesday.

Heck, unless they've got a printer on standby, if the stats aren't confirmed very shortly, having these available for GenCon in any kind of promotional (1 per customer) quantity is out the window. I understand the desire to get it right, but sometimes you need to prioritize. And it seems clear that the RPG books have priority.

If they just had more people working for them...

[Morgan Vening]

If they just had more people working for them...

I'm wondering how locked in they are on the July 15th deadline.

I know many of you are waiting on those stats before pre-ordering those packs, and I don’t blame you.

Because with less than 36 hours now, I'm not sure how much lead time they'll expect people to need to properly consider the stats and force orgs before making informed purchases, before the deadline expires. Less than a day and a half (assuming they go up soon), isn't IMO a reasonable amount of time.

[glitterboy2098]

can we please take discussion of PB internal events and policies to another thread? it is very off topic for this one.

[Kryptt]

Staying on topic I don't see to many people ordering the packs since the game stats still aren't available unless there's an update today considering the deadline ends tomorrow. It would have helped if Kevin didn't give a deadline and just let the playtesters the time they need to develop the rules better.

The modern units should not be able to go toe to toe with any mecha. They should be weak stats wise unless they get put in a unit where you lose one with each hit or something like that. If anything they should just add some flavor and used from time to time. They should in no way be a common sight on the battlefield since they aren't seen that often and they shouldn't be considered game changers. This isn't battletech. This is a game about fast flying mecha that uses alien technology surpassing anything like infantry, tanks and so on.

Edit: If you want to play using only conventional forces with no mech or some such go right ahead. It's your game you play however you want. I didn't mean to come off as the imagination police.LoL I'm just saying the official stats shouldn't be something that will alter the intent of the original design philosophy of the rules writers and the anime on which it's based on. I'm sure robotech would have been cool with just tanks and planes, but it's so much better with transforming robots.

[Morgan Vening]

So, with PB heading off to GenCon first thing this morning, it seems like they're punting on third with regards allowing backers to make an informed choice concerning the conventional vehicles. Even if an Update goes up the week after GenCon, that leaves backers a week to properly assess what they want, and figure out their purchases.

Unless they extend the deadline yet again due to not having this done, at least to a cursory level. Because these are supposed to be a "Limited Run", rather than a regular line item. While I'm not shocked they've treated this new product line with the same level of professionalism that they've treated the Kickstarter itself, I am a little surprised.

Sure, they're supposed to have been done mid-June, but they put them through another round of fine-tuning according to the July 9th Update, but three weeks later, still nothing. Once again, it seems like the enemy of the "good" is the need of the "perfect".

I suppose there IS a possibility that they have finalized the stats so they can have some of the material for sale at GenCon. But given that a large portion of backers won't be attending, does that really make it better?

[Morgan Vening]

Well, with Saturday all but gone, looks like they've blown off this weekend to get the stats up.

Meaning likely yet another pushback of the date. Hopefully this time they either take a proper assessment of when they're actually able to do what they say they're going to do, or just not announce a finish date until after they've put up the stats that were supposed to take 2 weeks, and have now taken 9 and counting.

But I'm sure they'll promise to do better. Again.

[glitterboy2098]

guys you will take the complaints to another thread, or i will have a moderator close this one. this is NOT the place for it.

[Jefffar]

At this point, with the lack of movement, and the danger of this thread devolving into something else, I'm going to lock it until such time as the stat cards come out. I'll reopen then for discussion.