If we look at the third limb from the right (the left-front leg) it looks like the hip? joint can raise at least 45 degrees above parallel. The speed these would need to move at would allow some sweet momentum for doing a roll, would require a piloting skill roll but seems possible to me.
Killer Cyborg wrote:I think that'd take one HECK of a piloting check!
What's the worst that could happen if you fail? Doesn't fall damage in MDC shells only apply to body armor and human-size PA? Even if we applied these rules to the bot and rounded up the height to 30ft, that's still only 3 SDC.
The worst? The bot could end up helpless and upside down in the middle of combat. Minor SDC damage wouldn't really be the issue.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Helpless makes it sound like no chance of escape. Having to pass a piloting roll isn't helpless.
Whiskeyjack wrote:The hydraulics are going to limit how far the legs can bend. While I can see them easily getting up from their side, if they're on their backs/heads, they're screwed.
The legs don't have to make contact with the ground to get up they just need to be able to move with enough force to generate rotational momentum. Think about how you roll over when you're on your back.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
The center of gravity is very different on the two. If they end on their back, all the weight is on the back. The legs would not likely have enough mass to right itself due to this. Terrain would also play a factor. Hard ground with a slight slope would be easier to rock back and forth on . A flat soft spot and it would likely just sink farther.
The skull of the Spider-walker is hollow, the legs are solid, we don't know how much the head weighs versus the legs, all we know is the head takes up more volume. Already mentioned that soft earth changes things for pretty much anything (including an Enforcer on his back)
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
could you guys please move the SSW conversation to a new thread instead of getting this one locked for being derailed? Or does this end with a "And all that to say 'THIS' is why I love Rifts"?
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Zer0 Kay wrote:could you guys please move the SSW conversation to a new thread instead of getting this one locked for being derailed? Or does this end with a "And all that to say 'THIS' is why I love Rifts"?
Fair request.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Zer0 Kay wrote:But there is an inherent quality of almost every game including D&D that would be that the rules are expected to be followed by everyone but the GM. The inherent quality of almost all PB is that the rules are a suggestion. So while a DM breaking the rules in D&D is, well breaking the rules a GM "breaking" the rules in PB is actually following the main rule.
Again, you're trying to make qualities unique to PB games that are equally present in ALL games. The fact that there are plain discussions of the proverbial "rule 0" (that there are no "rules") in every DMG and PHB would refute that perception. In fact, I can't say that I've ever read a single RPG that has the inherent quality that the GM can even be considered to be breaking the rules. At least no more so than is inherent to PB. I'm not saying that there are not qualities to PB games that are unique or even superior to other games. But the ability (or expectation) to freely mold the system to your needs on the fly is neither unique nor superior in PB.
The Reason I like rifts is that it is homebrew friendly. Custom concepts and the vast worlds and game styles can be handled differently. Russia isn't England and both have different expectations of culture, Just as Japan and china are not even closely comparable these are aspects that I love. which brings me to my reply to GoblynByte.
I partly agree with you GoblynByte, However The GM is roleplaying as well, and while WE have to play mother may I, The GM can generally state on a whim "Nope not allowed"
And while I love home brew and created concepts, I feel there are some BASIC rules that a GM should follow when playing the game.
1: he is playing the whole universe with that said there are some basics I feel that need to be applied to that idea A: Basic physics, Probability, and chance still "Generally" function as they do in real life, meaning that a GM shouldn't in arbitrarily state that "Oh your bullet hits a guy a mile away with obstacles between you" without at least explaining "HOW" that happened. that is NOT saying "SOMETHING" can't ignore the RULES of physics just that those things are EXPRESSED exceptions. Also there are "Realms" that might have slightly different physics like gravity or other issue, but STAY consistent.
B: a GM should NOT randomly influence a character for his own story "Ie don't play my character" don't take over my character and don't tell me what I should do beyond "Sticking" with the character and the basics of the game. INSTEAD He Can play an NPC, Or random event (With in reason of physics and probability and game play "IE Supernatural possession, Visit from a god, or insanity listed in the players sheet (BUT ONLY AS DESCRIBED)" and influence what my character does.
C: don't make exceptions TO the rules During game play IF he decides he wants to modify an enemy, rule or idea He should at least inform the players BEFORE hand that may be the case and IF it is a rule change THEN it applies to the PLAYERS as well (Changing npc stats or items is fair game but best be consistant and in writing to SHOW the players. If there is a roll for it you better give it. GM's should ALSO play NPC's the SAME as we are expected to play. We don't know the enemies gear, skills and abilities, and they don't know ours.
D: DO NOT PLAY FAVORITES with your players. If a player has a good idea or concept to add to his character and IT is allowed based on some principle then IF other players CAN meet that same criteria then IT should be allowed. (In my opinion) A bit of backstory, logic and balanced stats and keeping the game balanced FOR ME is the important ones. If those are met then YES... I will either consider the idea OR work to make it work for the game for ALL players.
E: "I'm the GM and I say so" should be the ABSOLUTE last thing a group of players EVER hears. it is NOT uncommon for a GM to talk out of character to the players and EXPRESS his basic goals while avoiding spoilers. A good GM should be able to TRUST his players NOT to abuse such knowledge (Which RIFTS is one of the few games that INFO doesn't largely effect outcome. A player can know nearly every aspect of a villain and even prep for it... That doesn't mean they will win in an honest game, and EVEN then, a GM can modify (Before combat begins) an NPC wisely to balance out that sort of thing).
F: Gods thumb should be reserved for "Out of character actions (After repeated warnings)" when the player isn't playing the character as described or is using out of game info as a character or is out right cheating (Adding or changing stats, gear, equipment NOT listed OR otherwise accessable or listed as on his person). IF you are intent on killing a character then KILL it wisely... and within the scope of the game. NOT because the player pisses you off... if that is the issue time for a dew run and pizza... or a days break. A GM should play the game the same as the player is expected, Adding gear, changing stats or expectation should NOT be done DURING player to npc/world interactions. A GM should NOT have to cheat to achieve his goals. IF a character doesn't go along with your plan roll with it and change YOUR story to get to the end result. let the characters have as much influence on the story as you do. If they decide they want to explore an area let them, This isn't just a Train track, if the character derail the story adapt and roll with it, Literally. Roll random encounters, and play the NPC's to the nuts. but don't "Force" the story and adventure by cheating.
The point is, many good adventure come about from "Randomness" and the "Characters interest" in an area and exploration. you CAN lead the story slightly. And the players will largely decide how they met (let them be a level or 2 higher if the backstory and logic permit)
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?
Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
GM I would like to run an adventure in South America. What do you want to play as characters and IF you have existing characters "HOW did they get there?"
Player A: Well... I want to play a cyborg from japan. (Starting level) GM: alright roll it up and lets see how he gets there.... rolls on tables... Bam okay... add 1d4 to your level and experience. And you are there. player B: I want to play a native werepanther with "Local" equipment and maybe a homebrew (WITH good story, stats ect) Gm and player B hash it out and bam okay. level 1 with x gear roll it up. Player C: Can I play a phase world character? GM Roll it up and I will get back to you. Player D; I have this 10th level cyber knight with x can he play? GM Okay... but we have to figure OUT how he gets there. Player D: Well... How we RP getting him there by an act of a god of light? GM rolls a percentile "Fair enough we pick up the story from "God of light abducts you from (Where ever) and drops you with the current gear you have on your person. no vehicle ect. you can figure out how to get back IF you live. (Mwahaha)
that would be the basic gist of how "I" would see a basic adventure starting in MY point of view.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?
Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
Zer0 Kay wrote:But there is an inherent quality of almost every game including D&D that would be that the rules are expected to be followed by everyone but the GM. The inherent quality of almost all PB is that the rules are a suggestion. So while a DM breaking the rules in D&D is, well breaking the rules a GM "breaking" the rules in PB is actually following the main rule.
Again, you're trying to make qualities unique to PB games that are equally present in ALL games. The fact that there are plain discussions of the proverbial "rule 0" (that there are no "rules") in every DMG and PHB would refute that perception. In fact, I can't say that I've ever read a single RPG that has the inherent quality that the GM can even be considered to be breaking the rules. At least no more so than is inherent to PB. I'm not saying that there are not qualities to PB games that are unique or even superior to other games. But the ability (or expectation) to freely mold the system to your needs on the fly is neither unique nor superior in PB.
It is rule 0 in other companies that is ONLY discussed and would never be written by the publishers, therefore not a rule and not canon. It IS rule number 1 written down in PB books (not literally as rule number 1) so IS both a rule and cannon. The quality is there, it is unique, it is real.
Example: if you go to an official WotC D&D event you'd expect that the be using the official rules. If you go to the POH you shouldn't expect everyone to be playing with the same set of rules. If some of your players go and they're surprised by that,you haven't prepared them well or they've never read a PB rule book or GMs guide.
"All of the rules are optional" is printed nowhere in D&D, Pathfinder, Cyberpunk, Mekton, Ironwood, Synnabar, the old AD&D, Star Frontiers, Gamma World, Runequest... Do I really need to go on?
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
I knew I liked Rifts quite a bit, but I had to think about why for a couple of minutes, knowing there was a big reason in there somewhere; and it hit me:
Palladium Books is the only modern or post-modern-future gaming company that ever got Canada right. Look at where Lazlo is; it's Toronto! Hometown Hogtown, and it was neither glossed over nor left underappreciated as an important cultural center. There was no 'Oh, Canada is a socialist country' pseudo-Communist state commentary (White Wolf was guilty of this more than once, in one case a book I'm fond of because they got some of Vancouver, B.C., right); there were no maps that stuck Toronto and Montreal (and nowhere else) on a misshapen, funny-looking southeastern Ontario panhandle merged with a badly-scrawled Southern Quebec. And look at Free Quebec (formerly, as I understand it now, a Coalition protectorate) and Lazlo, Ontario on both sides of the moral compass in North America.
There was even a Canada World Book (20, I believe) that refused to hinge its conceptuals on stereotypes of or prejudice towards we of the Great White North; and what was presented was done so with dignity, respect and a great deal of care; there was no 'U.S.A.'s Top Hat' paternalism; Canada and the people in it were treated with no less respect than any other place in the world covered in the books. This is a rarity in 'alternate Earth' gaming, assuming Canada or its environs are included at all in a given game. There were no 'Eskimos & snowmen' jokes, no 'their cars are powered by maple syrup' shots to the groin; Palladium has always treated we in Canada as equals at the gaming table and that is probably- aside from a game itself I've loved for a very long time- the biggest reason why Rifts has outlasted each and every game I've been part of at any point in my gaming career, with the exception of Palladium Fantasy, which I started playing a year before getting into Rifts.
So's a ring I have. But that doesn't mean that it moves the same way.
Robot HtH basic (I don't know if an elite exists for spider-walkers, don't see one) gives a bonus to roll with impact so presumably a skull-walker could do that, but it doesn't seem like something they would do if there was a risk of being unrightable.
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Okay, I'm done. Somebody else explain what "rolling with a punch" means.
Easy solution to this problem: One of the Dead Boys exits the over-turned Skull Walker, walks over to the side of it and PUNCHES it!
The pilot then "rolls with punch" and rights itself back to its feet!!! Works with the existing game mechanics AND is TOTALLY realistic!!!
*wonders if an acrobat could use a back flip in robots they pilot, or if that is restricted to PA, or if even PA couldn't do anything not explicitly listed under their elite skill*
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
Why I like Rifts?? Simply put, it's a game where the GM and players can run any type of game and play any type of character, and it all still works together beautifully.
The first time I ever GM'd a Rifts game with a group of players who were unfamiliar with the game, I gave them a brief overview of the genre setting then asked them, "with no restrictions in genre or setting, what type of character would you like to create and play?"
"I'd like to be a big cat-man." Done........he's now a Hunter Cat.
"I'd like to be an Elf ninja-type with a bow, who can fly and turn invisible." Done......she's now an Elvin Battle Magus.
"I just want to be a mechanic with a pistol." Done.......he's now an Operator.
**puff-puff** "I wanna be a big magic slug, dude." Done......he's now a Zembahk, Mystic Worm. "Cool dude, I'm gonno go Create Wood for those villagers down there; everyone could use wood." ................you do that, buddy.
They had a blast and we kept that group going for nearly four years.
I guess the tag-line really says it all: "Infinite possibilities, limited only by your imagination (tm)."
you some might think you're a 
but you're cool in book 
