Mechanoids vs Supers
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Ignoring the obvious trump card of orbital bombardment, is there anything limiting the number of mechanoids that can be fielded?
--flatline
--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:A strike force of 3 mother ships, If every man, woman and child on the planet has super powers which is limited to the Heroes Unlimited 2nd edition revised main book seems an equal fight.
Mechanoids.
Are you aware of the size, power, and troops that even a single mothership has?
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
RGG wrote:I would say that super heroes would win out.
They would have to wait out the aliens and protect resources not humans...
Ultimately humans would be slaves if they do not take up arms and have to fend for them selves as heroes are limited. Most aliens would want our resources... Mega heroes could attempt an orbital warfare and seriously cripple any mother ship.
Aliens could attack from the orbit and destroy the majority of the cities - that would reduce human life by 75%... forcing people into the wilds and under ground in many cases.
Since the planet is central, the aliens could circle quickly for more effective targeted strikes....
You now, the American Government has a contingency plan made by the military for these very threats... There is a link on line too! I read it on a couple of sites... You could also find additional ideas on conspiracy theory sites.
I just gave more food for thought.
Mechanoids don't take prisoners, except for experimentation/vivisection.
And they'd just eat the planet out from under the heroes. Surviving in the wilderness wouldn't do any good.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:I read the mechanoid books a few months ago, and after seeing how doomed a planet of normal humans were by just one mothership. I wanted to see how a planet of super heroes would fair against three.
It'd certainly be interesting... but the mechanoids would win out, just through sheer number of warriors.
Assuming that the super powers would be randomly distributed, that the tech levels are similar to today's Earth (or even HU Earth, where super-high-tech exist, but is relatively rare), and assuming that this is SDC, the mechanoids would win out, quite possibly even if they only had one Mothership.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Mechanoids have one very great advantage over the supers. They aren't JUST high tech but they also have psionics to deal with those pesky invulnerable characters they will face as well.
ONE mother ship with its, if I recall, millions upon millions of troops, win. DO not pass go. DO not collect 200 hundred dollars.
ONE mother ship with its, if I recall, millions upon millions of troops, win. DO not pass go. DO not collect 200 hundred dollars.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
jaymz wrote:Mechanoids have one very great advantage over the supers. They aren't JUST high tech but they also have psionics to deal with those pesky invulnerable characters they will face as well.
ONE mother ship with its, if I recall, millions upon millions of troops, win. DO not pass go. DO not collect 200 hundred dollars.
It's not even just psionics: particle beams damage invulnerable characters.
A Mechanoid Wasp's forward particle beam cannons inflict 2d4x10 MD per dual blast, and has a range of 4,000', with unlimited ammo.
That's an average damage of 50 MD, dropped to 1/2 by Invulnerability (iirc), and that's still 25 MD per shot. At 700 MD, an Invulnerable character would be dropped in 28 shots or so, which makes them TOUGH to take down... but not all that tough.
And a mechanoid mothership has 1 billion Wasps on board.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Was it full Billion? I thought it was merely 100 million
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Actually Sexy it is stated, I believe in the description of the particle beam weapons for HU2, that hey do in fact harm Inv. Characters. I just have to double check as to how much for sure.
KC may know better than I,
KC may know better than I,
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
And I believe the particle weapon reference is IN hu2 thus why I need to double check
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:My friend has the original Mechanoid books for sale I already own the Heroes Book. If I can get proper feedback that I am happy with, I may run this as my first adventure as a GM.
That's pretty ambitious for a new GM, but there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to pull it off. I hope you and your players have a great time with it!
--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
- The Beast
- Demon Lord Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5959
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
- Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
- Location: Apocrypha
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:A strike force of 3 mother ships, If every man, woman and child on the planet has super powers which is limited to the Heroes Unlimited 2nd edition revised main book seems an equal fight.
A strike force of one mothership is more than enough in your senario.
- Damian Magecraft
- Knight
- Posts: 3472
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 1:01 am
- Comment: Evil GM
Master of Magics
Defender of the Faith - Location: chillicothe, ohio; usa
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:After studying the Mechanoids books i figured if the populance could fight back effectively wouldn't the Mechanoids would send more than one ship?
One ship is sufficient to start...
Should resistance prove to be too great then more can be sent for later.
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:After studying the Mechanoids books i figured if the populance could fight back effectively wouldn't the Mechanoids would send more than one ship?
If something posed a serious threat... but usually something as simple as devouring a planet only requires one Mothership.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
sexykitty wrote:I did explain the terms, so to repeat myself. All three original Mechanoids books vs Heroes Unlimited 2nd edition revised. So any references to anything other than these 4 books is INVALID.
Actually, you didn't state that premise.
You mentioned that you had those books, but you didn't tell us that those were ALL that were allowed for this thread, nor that you were planning on running this.
It seemed like a simple hypothetical thought exercise.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
jaymz wrote:Actually Sexy it is stated, I believe in the description of the particle beam weapons for HU2, that hey do in fact harm Inv. Characters. I just have to double check as to how much for sure.
KC may know better than I,
I don't know that it's actually stated in HU2.
IIRC, it came up in Aliens Unlimited or somewhere later, much to the surprise of many people who believed that being impervious to energy made one impervious to all energy weapons, including particle beams.
And the ruling left something of a gray area, because now we know that particle beams do partial damage to Invulnerable characters, even though they're "impervious to energy," but I don't believe that it was ever addressed how this ruling affects other forms of "impervious to energy."
Like the super power, the spell, vampires' limited invulnerability, etc. etc.
So if Kitty wants to ignore that ruling, that's probably the simplest way to handle it.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Forces like the Transgalactic Empire seem superior to the Tarlok. I'm not sure where the Mechanoids measure up against the TGE in terms of total power, but I think they also trump the Tarlok. The world of Skraypers was essentially a world full of supers by the time the Tarlok got to it, and they still basically managed to conquer it, just with a few annoying pockets up uprising here and there.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Yeah but Tor, the Tarlok race itself are essentially supers.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Killer Cyborg wrote:jaymz wrote:Actually Sexy it is stated, I believe in the description of the particle beam weapons for HU2, that hey do in fact harm Inv. Characters. I just have to double check as to how much for sure.
KC may know better than I,
I don't know that it's actually stated in HU2.
IIRC, it came up in Aliens Unlimited or somewhere later, much to the surprise of many people who believed that being impervious to energy made one impervious to all energy weapons, including particle beams.
And the ruling left something of a gray area, because now we know that particle beams do partial damage to Invulnerable characters, even though they're "impervious to energy," but I don't believe that it was ever addressed how this ruling affects other forms of "impervious to energy."
Like the super power, the spell, vampires' limited invulnerability, etc. etc.
So if Kitty wants to ignore that ruling, that's probably the simplest way to handle it.
You're right, it wasn't stated in HU2...mostly because there are no Particle beam weapons in HU2 I imagine. It's on page 216 of the GM guide where the equipment, vehicles and weapons available were expanded. Particle beams even damage invulnerable characters, but do half damage as you said above. I woudl rule Supers are just a "different" type of energy imperviousness than that of a spell or Vampire etc.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
jaymz wrote:Yeah but Tor, the Tarlok race itself are essentially supers.
They're tough buggers but probably no more than the Kreeghor, even if they are more fleshed out in terms of biology. Super powers are more often about versatility and unpredictability and even the Tarlok with supers (Dreadlor) don't have much of that compared to their slave races.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Agreed but if you are tough enough to go toe to with minor supers, which in my opinion most tarlock could, then you have the advantage for sure except when dealing with the superman-esque types which aren't that common and seem to be down right rare (unless you're a player character )
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I vaguely remember some reference to this too, but can't seem to find it in either CB1 or HU2 descriptions of Invulnerability. Would anyone recall where this was introduced?Killer Cyborg wrote:particle beams damage invulnerable characters.
dropped to 1/2 by Invulnerability (iirc)
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- The Beast
- Demon Lord Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5959
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
- Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
- Location: Apocrypha
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Tor wrote:I vaguely remember some reference to this too, but can't seem to find it in either CB1 or HU2 descriptions of Invulnerability. Would anyone recall where this was introduced?Killer Cyborg wrote:particle beams damage invulnerable characters.
dropped to 1/2 by Invulnerability (iirc)
HUGMG.
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
- Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
<Redacted at the Request of the Nigelian Confederacy Security Council>
Last edited by eliakon on Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
- Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
well on page 96 of the mechanoid trilogy book an average mothership has
Assault Force and Crew
wasps 20,000,000
Brutes 2,000,000
Runners 1,400,000
Brains 600,000
Mantis 40,000
Diggers 10,000
Thinmen 280,000,000
Runts 600,000,000
Skimmer 100,000,000
Spider Fort 10,000
yah, that's gonna be....nasty, and since EVERY mechanoid is effectively a multiclass Psionic/Borg/Alien with gear supplied by a Hardware......ouch.
Assault Force and Crew
wasps 20,000,000
Brutes 2,000,000
Runners 1,400,000
Brains 600,000
Mantis 40,000
Diggers 10,000
Thinmen 280,000,000
Runts 600,000,000
Skimmer 100,000,000
Spider Fort 10,000
yah, that's gonna be....nasty, and since EVERY mechanoid is effectively a multiclass Psionic/Borg/Alien with gear supplied by a Hardware......ouch.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- Grell
- Republican
- Posts: 1306
- Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:34 pm
- Comment: We are the hope for the future and we will not fail in that duty.
- Location: Sacramento, CA
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
eliakon wrote:well on page 96 of the mechanoid trilogy book an average mothership has
Assault Force and Crew
wasps 20,000,000
Brutes 2,000,000
Runners 1,400,000
Brains 600,000
Mantis 40,000
Diggers 10,000
Thinmen 280,000,000
Runts 600,000,000
Skimmer 100,000,000
Spider Fort 10,000
yah, that's gonna be....nasty, and since EVERY mechanoid is effectively a multiclass Psionic/Borg/Alien with gear supplied by a Hardware......ouch.
You're gonna need a bigger boat, friend. Lots of 'em.
"He who commands the kitchen commands the ship." -C. Magewind, Ley Line Rifter and self proclaimed "Best Cook in the Three Galaxies"
"The question is not why the mechanoids kill the humanoids, but only why nobody did it sooner." -Killer Cyborg
"The question is not why the mechanoids kill the humanoids, but only why nobody did it sooner." -Killer Cyborg
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Is the assumption that the mechanoids don't consume the planet/star/whatever until after all resistance has been dealt with?
--flatline
--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
- The Beast
- Demon Lord Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5959
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
- Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
- Location: Apocrypha
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
flatline wrote:Is the assumption that the mechanoids don't consume the planet/star/whatever until after all resistance has been dealt with?
--flatline
Normally, they "play with the humans" while setting the planet up for destruction. I suppose if the resistance was strong enough though, they'd target the planet's star or blow the planet early.
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
The Beast wrote:flatline wrote:Is the assumption that the mechanoids don't consume the planet/star/whatever until after all resistance has been dealt with?
--flatline
Normally, they "play with the humans" while setting the planet up for destruction. I suppose if the resistance was strong enough though, they'd target the planet's star or blow the planet early.
So if the resistance could disable the Mothership before the Mothership consumes the planet/star/whatever, the planet could be saved. The 128M mechanoid troops and 880M robots are actually incidental to the survival of the planet beyond their effort to protect the Mothership. Of course, they're still a threat to the residents of the planet.
Is there a combination of powers that would allow a super (or group of supers) to disable, maybe even destroy the Mothership before the Mechanoids can stop the super with their weapons or psionics?
It would be nice to know how long the process of consuming the planet/star/whatever takes. If the supers manage to fight off the troops and the Mothership decides to consume the p/s/w, how much time is there to stop it before it succeeds?
--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
eliakon wrote:well on page 96 of the mechanoid trilogy book an average mothership has
Assault Force and Crew
wasps 20,000,000
Brutes 2,000,000
Runners 1,400,000
Brains 600,000
Mantis 40,000
Diggers 10,000
Thinmen 280,000,000
Runts 600,000,000
Skimmer 100,000,000
Spider Fort 10,000
yah, that's gonna be....nasty, and since EVERY mechanoid is effectively a multiclass Psionic/Borg/Alien with gear supplied by a Hardware......ouch.
Actually, I think those are just the forces in the "detachable assault unit and planet excavation head quarters."
The full numbers for the ship appear to be on page 124 of the Mechanoid Invasion Trilogy:
Overlord: 13
Oracle: 100,000
Brain: 12 million
Runner: 37 million
Mantis: 900,000
Octopus: 12 million
Battle Cruiser: 600
Wasp: 1 billion
Brute: 60 million
Black Widow: 2 million
Tunnel Crawler: 11 million
Exterminator: 12 million
Seeker Pod: 15 million
Digger: 30,000
Haulers: 88 million
Thinmen: 45 billion
Runts: 90 billion
Other Robots: 57 billion
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
flatline wrote: if the resistance could disable the Mothership before the Mothership consumes the planet/star/whatever, the planet could be saved. The.. mechanoid troops and... robots are actually incidental to the survival of the planet beyond their effort to protect the Mothership. Of course, they're still a threat to the residents of the planet.
Pretty much.
For the most part. But since it's actual mechanoids that carve up the planet (iirc), battling the right bots and mechanoids on the planet's surface could slow down their operations, possibly even prevent them. In theory.
Is there a combination of powers that would allow a super (or group of supers) to disable, maybe even destroy the Mothership before the Mechanoids can stop the super with their weapons or psionics?
That would be up to the GM.
My best guess would be that an APS: Fire hero that went Nova in the right area of the ship might be able to do some significant damage, possibly even cripple it.
But barring some kind of uber-vulnerability akin to the Death Star's, I don't see the ship being able to be destroyed.
It would be nice to know how long the process of consuming the planet/star/whatever takes.
The timeline on p. 50 of the MIT book states that it took the mechanoids 3 months to break down, gather, and remove Thalos, "the largest of Gideon E's sister satellites."
Of course, that 3 months is the time it takes them to devour a planet (or rather, a planet-sized moon) completely. It would take a lot less time to render the planet inhabitable to human life.
#19 on the timeline is "Mechanoids begin defoliation of planet Gideon E."
The vegetation casualty rate is 98.5%
The animal life casualties is 74.9%
So that would be the first major timeline- if the planet is successfully defoliated, then humanity is likely doomed whether or not the mechanoids are defeated or held off.
The timeline does not, unfortunately, include specific dates for each entry. #17 does mention "6 months til IF intervention," though, and the "current situation (which would be #20) states "five months til IF intervention." So the defoliation process seems to take less than 1 month.
The "Invasion Event Up-Date" on p. 73 describes "the second month," which re-enforces that picture, indicating that it was less than 1 month from the first Mechanoid attack to the "current" situation of the first book.
#1 on the timeline of the 2nd month is "Defoliation of planet Gideon E complete."
The first note on the timeline of the 3rd month states:
Massive Mechanoid device (cyborgs?) begin to carve the planet Gideon E into sections. Said devices cut an unbroken line/canyon 2 km deep and 1 km wide across entire planet. Bridge and for areas are built approximately every 1800 km.
The description of capabilities matches the description of a Mechanoid Digger. They appear to do the actual carving up of the planet.
The next note is:
Dissection of planet is final step in the Mechanoid mining operation, prior to the final blasting into small manageable sections and storage by mothership.
The next note is that the Mechanoids have tapped into Gideon E's molten core as a power source.
A note on page 75 of the MIT mentions that after defoliation begins, "entire oceans are drained and also sent aboard the Mothership."
And:
The Diggers then slice the planet from pole to pole as one might slice an orange to decorate a desert. After most of the fossil fuels, precious water supplies, and mineral deposits have been mined a series of explosions created by the bridge forts (forts are destroyed too) fragment, then shatter the planet's surface, hurling the pieces into space.
And:
The entire excavation of an earth-sized plnet is completed within three months, the power crystal conversion process requires an additional 2-3 weeks time.
So it looks like a planet's population would have 2.25-2.5 months before their planet was completely carved up, and a lot less time before it became uninhabitable.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Warshield73
- Megaversal® Ambassador
- Posts: 5429
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
- Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I would think the best way to do a supers vs. mechanoids would be the way it was done in Rifts. A small group, maybe including a spider fortress, is stranded on the same planet. The supers must wipe out the Mechanoids before they can rebuild there ship or call for help.
If you make it a colony world with a few thousand colonists and a few dozen supers for protection you could do a war of attrition thing.
If you make it a colony world with a few thousand colonists and a few dozen supers for protection you could do a war of attrition thing.
“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”
- General Philip Henry Sheridan, U.S. Army 1865
- General Philip Henry Sheridan, U.S. Army 1865
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Tor wrote:Forces like the Transgalactic Empire seem superior to the Tarlok. I'm not sure where the Mechanoids measure up against the TGE in terms of total power, but I think they also trump the Tarlok. The world of Skraypers was essentially a world full of supers by the time the Tarlok got to it, and they still basically managed to conquer it, just with a few annoying pockets up uprising here and there.
The Mechanoids could eat the TGE for breakfast, even though TGE stuff generally has better stats than what we saw in Rifts Mechanoids (thanks power creep!). The TGE are legitimately big enough to call themselves transgalactic (which is pretty damn impressive) and they own a sizeable fraction of the Three Galaxies. They are without a doubt one of the most straight-up powerful forces in the entire Rifts setting.
Unfortunately they're outnumbered a squillion to one, because the Mechanoids own a sizeable chunk of an entire universe. The TGE is big enough and ugly enough that it could probably give them a better fight than pretty much anything else that's been mentioned in the "Mechanoids vs" threads lately, but the result is still a foregone conclusion.
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Rallan wrote: they're outnumbered a squillion to one
That made me .
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- The Beast
- Demon Lord Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5959
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
- Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
- Location: Apocrypha
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Killer Cyborg wrote:Rallan wrote: they're outnumbered a squillion to one
That made me .
Odd. I thought that it was from using parts from the lowest bidder.
- Alrik Vas
- Knight
- Posts: 4810
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
- Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
- Location: Right behind you.
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I'd hand it to the Mechanoids as well. Most of your population is going to die off from bombardment. You'll have about a quarter of your people left after that. They'll be struggling to form any kind of defense, separated by long distances and have a lack of communication and next to no coordination. Where as the mechanoids will be completely organized the entire time and be able to stomp out the pockets of resistance en mass.
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
The Beast wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Rallan wrote: they're outnumbered a squillion to one
That made me .
Odd. I thought that it was from using parts from the lowest bidder.
THAT makes me
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- Warshield73
- Megaversal® Ambassador
- Posts: 5429
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
- Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Any of the Mechanoids vs. threads are going to depend on the number of Mechanoids. Just like any other threat. If it is one spider fortress and they are trying to be built up from scratch then the right group of heroes from any setting can stop them. But, if you're talking about empire vs. empire then be it TGE or Demons or pantheons the Mechanoids are always likely to win.
It would depend on when in their history they are coming from. In the time of Mechanoid invasion trilogy they are the dominant force in their galaxy wiping out all humanoid life they encounter. But if you are talking about the current timeline as described in the Rifts SB 2 and what seems to be the setting for Mechanoid Space they are smaller in number and just coming back. So in that case an Empire Vs. Empire battle would take longer but still got to go with the Mechanoids.
It would depend on when in their history they are coming from. In the time of Mechanoid invasion trilogy they are the dominant force in their galaxy wiping out all humanoid life they encounter. But if you are talking about the current timeline as described in the Rifts SB 2 and what seems to be the setting for Mechanoid Space they are smaller in number and just coming back. So in that case an Empire Vs. Empire battle would take longer but still got to go with the Mechanoids.
“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”
- General Philip Henry Sheridan, U.S. Army 1865
- General Philip Henry Sheridan, U.S. Army 1865
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
ok hope i dont get a warning but.... in a DC type hero world mechanoids would lose....all day everyday. now vs the lower power levels of a marvel type world, i give the victory to the mechanoids. since both power levels are capable in a HU game the final answer falls to the gm, in this case you.
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28149
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Rappanui wrote:the DC version of superheroes vs Mechanoids? Are you kidding? the mechanoids weapons are insanely powerful, More powerful then the average weapon of Khundians who nearly wiped out earth's superheroes. Now Granted, DC has supervillains who could take over the mechanoids but the end result is the same, Destruction of earth.
to Give a comparison, Each Wasp has particle beams that can Vaporize half of an Aircraft Carrier. An invasion fleet has 10 Billion of These. that means on average, each Wasp packs enough power to Penetrate the average Green lantern's Energy shield in under 15 seconds. Each wasp is on par with a manhunter drone in energy output, if not more son on bigger models.
That tends to put it into perspective.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Since H.U. is sdc and the Mechanoid trilogy is sdc..... kinda my plan to play the first book out.
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Rappanui wrote:PU 1 and PU 2 and PU 3. Destroying the Mothership is easy as ... Haywire, Inhabitation...
You mention 3 books and 2 powers... did you have a category from PU2 in mind?
Rallan wrote:The TGE is big enough and ugly enough that it could probably give them a better fight than pretty much anything else that's been mentioned in the "Mechanoids vs" threads lately, but the result is still a foregone conclusion.
Okay um... what if TGE somehow allied with CCW and UWW? How much better would they fare?
I think I need to ferret through Rifts Sourcebook 2 and the Trilogy for more specific numbers. I took only a cursory glance and thought "wow, they have a lot of ISP, but I bet a god can beat them 1 on 1, so not that scary".
But the sheer numbers I'm hearing... gamechangers. Gods don't exist long without worshippers... and I feel like the Mechanoids could wipe out a worshipper base with minimal casualties. These wasp have maneuverability exceeding a beginner Cosmo-Knight, who can themselves trump gods in guerilla.
Rappanui wrote:like i said, the only repulsible Threat of mechanoids is similar to what attacks earth in Mechanoids sourcebook, A Few Spider fortresses.
anything else and it's Extinction.
Why did Kevin even write this game? It sounds like nobody stands a chance, like some kind of Call of Cthulhu horror RPG where you just get to find out how long it is before some .... THING just... devours you.
Mimics would obviously be paired up with people who have really good powers so they can copy them, think of a better example. =/aegis wrote:what are the odds every person would have useful abilities for this situation. Lets say something which can be very powerful like mimic really means nothing when facing a mechanoid.
It could be possible to discuss this without directly converting DC chars. It's not as if most top-tier DC guys could be made via Palladium's rules anyway. Are you saying Superman could beat a mothership or something?say652 wrote:in a DC type hero world mechanoids would lose....all day everyday.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I have my norse giant. Cutter he uses his temporal magic and giantness to travel the megaverse fighting Mechanoids. So far I have yet to achieve any sort of victory but I have saved people. Thats good too.
- Spinachcat
- Megaversal® Ambassador
- Posts: 1465
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:01 pm
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I've added Supers to a Mechanoid Invasion campaign and they work fine IF you are cool with a mixed power group. Depending on how you limit the powers, it doesn't have a major change on the tone of the game.
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Cutter is a greater norse giant reaver assassin with the yggdrasil gift of knowledge and an army of Algor Delphi Juicers.
Like I said before I have managed to save people but have YET to achieve anything resembling a victory. Mechaoids are Chuck Norris with it! !
Like I said before I have managed to save people but have YET to achieve anything resembling a victory. Mechaoids are Chuck Norris with it! !
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I thought JU said giants couldn't do normal Juicing, much less a rare psychic variation.
They might be able to Maxi-Kill tho.
They might be able to Maxi-Kill tho.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Tor wrote:I thought JU said giants couldn't do normal Juicing, much less a rare psychic variation.
They might be able to Maxi-Kill tho.
Funny the Delphi upgrade seems to work fine on Algor. Good strong agile psychic soldiers, sdc so if you gotta put em down. You can with minimal struggle. My Algor-Delphi are also all female. Maybe thats why it works?? So far the 15 year lifespan hasn't come into play, mainly because The Mechanoids kill them.
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
In an Mdc setting a high tech populace, like rifts Earth could hold them off. Added benefit the satellite defense system. Good luck using handwavium to knock them outa the sky. Jussayin.
I came to the conclusion mechanoids blow.
In an sdc setting, Bwahahaha supers would own them.
Bullies are only strong against the weak.
Mechanoids=space roaches.
I came to the conclusion mechanoids blow.
In an sdc setting, Bwahahaha supers would own them.
Bullies are only strong against the weak.
Mechanoids=space roaches.
- say652
- Palladin
- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
- Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
- Location: 'Murica
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
I didnt know Algor became mdc I guess my ladies are an sdc tribe. So now since I based them on cb1 Algor maybe a dimensional anomaly??
- Tor
- Palladin
- Posts: 6975
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
- Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
- Location: Pyramid
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
Is there any book source supporting this?say652 wrote:the Delphi upgrade seems to work fine on Algor.
MDC creatures can become Maxi-Killer Juicers.Rappanui wrote:all the giant races are now mdc in rifts thus negating Juicer conversion.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
- Spinachcat
- Megaversal® Ambassador
- Posts: 1465
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:01 pm
Re: Mechanoids vs Supers
say652 wrote:In an sdc setting, Bwahahaha supers would own them.
Bullies are only strong against the weak.
Mechanoids=space roaches.
Supers do great 1v1 with Mechanoids, but the Mechanoids have the overwhelming numbers that become an issue for Supers. However, I have found Supers make great additional characters to a Mechanoid Invasion campaign.
And yeah, HU should be used with the original SDC Mechanoids books. The conversion stuff is just that much easier.