Can Seljuk become Cosmo-Knights?

[Tor]

They are MDC creatures with supernatural strength and endurance, but so are Kreeghor, who can explicitly become Cosmo-Knights, so clearly having supernatural attributes doesn't qualify you as a supernatural being, or the Kreeghor would be, and would not be able to become Cosmo-Knights. Clearly it must explicitly say you are supernatural, or else some other form of reasoning besides SN attributes must be used to categorize them as that.

I do not see Seljuk explicitly called supernatural creatures under their statistics. The term "supernatural" does occur in their racial description outside of strength/endurance, but I am not certain whether or not it is right to conclude it applies to the race itself.

The phrase occurs in the first paragraph on page 69 "They all became supernatural, mega-damage creatures!"

The problem with applying that to the Seljuk is: it is describing the pre-Seljuk forms of this life on the planet. We know that non-supernatural creatures can change into supernatural creatures, and vice versa (though more rare) that supernatural creatures can change into non-supernatural ones. If a creature can change in its own lifetime, it would not be right to assume that simply because one's ancestors are supernatural that you also must be supernatural yourself.

The Seljuk are described as a dominant species that 'emerged from this savage world'. So they emerged from a world that was previously exclusively populated by supernatural creatures, but I don't think that should necessarily mean they themselves are also supernatural creatures. It lacks explicitness on that detail.

Even if we were to conclude that the pre-ritual Seljuks that evolved were supernatural, that still leaves it up for grabs whether or not they STILL are. The very ritual which stripped the race of its PPE and ability to learn magic could also have stripped them of any supernatural natures they MIGHT have had.

A GM could rule that they're supernatural but I think this is a house rule (albeit not a huge leap) since it doesn't exclusively forbid them from being Cosmo-Knights (and you'd think it would have, since the book explicitly forbids other races within the book such as Prometheans from doing so) and that the lack of forbidding them from becoming the CosK OCC is almost a vote of confidence as to their lack of a supernatural nature.

I think Seljuk are alike to the Catyr that precede them, and the Kreeghor elsewhere, in that they're MDC creatures with supernatural attributes but who are not supernatural themselves. Any disagreements?

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's kind of pointless anyway. It's never been established weather or not the cosmic forge can make supernatural beings cosmo knights, merely that it has not yet done so. There is no particular reason to assume a lack of ability from that.

[Tor]

Rereading the description I see you are right, and this possibility is somewhat terrifying.

It's possible that the reason it doesn't pick supies is because it can't though (it's comforting to think that that... THING has limits) and something GMs could conclude as a means of preventing Demigods from selecting Cosmo-Knight as their OCC, so it's still an interesting question if the issue comes up.

[Nekira Sudacne]

My personal take is that it can, but it's as terrified of the results as you are. Think of it this way: a Fallen Cosmo knight made from a mortal is already about on par with a Demigod. Imagine if a Godling cosmo knight fell?

[Alrik Vas]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

[The Beast]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

That's my understanding of it. Once you accept the position all your stats are rerolled as per the CK OCC.

[Nightmask]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

The problem you run into is what about those who have racial abilities that wouldn't logically make sense to lose. You wouldn't expect a Wolven to lose its claws, tail, teeth, or fur even though it became a Cosmo-Knight so should still retain what those would do for him (along with the enhanced senses). Otherwise it falls into the category over the arguments regarding demi-gods who're children of something other than humans and gods, like a god/wolven demi-god. The idea of it somehow being born without Wolven traits like claws or enhanced senses is ridiculous but the OCC is shown being written around humans who have no special attributes to add to things. The same holds with the Cosmo-Knight and how much of its original physical characteristics would add into the mix after becoming one.

As far as why the Forge doesn't empower these more powerful beings with its might as one of its champions, well it ought to be fairly obvious that power can be corrupting and your average demi-god or godling already starts in a bad place (especially the Godling) so empowering them just too readily leads to fallen knights and as a compassionate being the Forge tries to avoid picking people who're too likely to fail and subject them to that agony. Plus given we don't know why the Forge avoids it it could very likely be that in the dim past it DID and it proved a disaster but no one remembers those fallen super Cosmo-Knights except perhaps as distorted myths and legends.

[Alrik Vas]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

The problem you run into is what about those who have racial abilities that wouldn't logically make sense to lose. You wouldn't expect a Wolven to lose its claws, tail, teeth, or fur even though it became a Cosmo-Knight so should still retain what those would do for him (along with the enhanced senses). Otherwise it falls into the category over the arguments regarding demi-gods who're children of something other than humans and gods, like a god/wolven demi-god. The idea of it somehow being born without Wolven traits like claws or enhanced senses is ridiculous but the OCC is shown being written around humans who have no special attributes to add to things. The same holds with the Cosmo-Knight and how much of its original physical characteristics would add into the mix after becoming one.

As far as why the Forge doesn't empower these more powerful beings with its might as one of its champions, well it ought to be fairly obvious that power can be corrupting and your average demi-god or godling already starts in a bad place (especially the Godling) so empowering them just too readily leads to fallen knights and as a compassionate being the Forge tries to avoid picking people who're too likely to fail and subject them to that agony. Plus given we don't know why the Forge avoids it it could very likely be that in the dim past it DID and it proved a disaster but no one remembers those fallen super Cosmo-Knights except perhaps as distorted myths and legends.

I don't see anything wrong with say, Wolfen keeping claws/tail etc if they become a Cosmoknight. I'm just saying you lose your RCC/OCC and become a Cosmoknight, even rerolling your stats to use the CK stats. Your sense of smell bonus would stay, you'd keep your free WP and initiaive bonus.

if a Godling/Demigod became one, they would lose their RCC though, because it's not a racial template like the wolfen, it's a Racial Character Class, big difference.

[Nightmask]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

The problem you run into is what about those who have racial abilities that wouldn't logically make sense to lose. You wouldn't expect a Wolven to lose its claws, tail, teeth, or fur even though it became a Cosmo-Knight so should still retain what those would do for him (along with the enhanced senses). Otherwise it falls into the category over the arguments regarding demi-gods who're children of something other than humans and gods, like a god/wolven demi-god. The idea of it somehow being born without Wolven traits like claws or enhanced senses is ridiculous but the OCC is shown being written around humans who have no special attributes to add to things. The same holds with the Cosmo-Knight and how much of its original physical characteristics would add into the mix after becoming one.

As far as why the Forge doesn't empower these more powerful beings with its might as one of its champions, well it ought to be fairly obvious that power can be corrupting and your average demi-god or godling already starts in a bad place (especially the Godling) so empowering them just too readily leads to fallen knights and as a compassionate being the Forge tries to avoid picking people who're too likely to fail and subject them to that agony. Plus given we don't know why the Forge avoids it it could very likely be that in the dim past it DID and it proved a disaster but no one remembers those fallen super Cosmo-Knights except perhaps as distorted myths and legends.

I don't see anything wrong with say, Wolfen keeping claws/tail etc if they become a Cosmoknight. I'm just saying you lose your RCC/OCC and become a Cosmoknight, even rerolling your stats to use the CK stats. Your sense of smell bonus would stay, you'd keep your free WP and initiaive bonus.

if a Godling/Demigod became one, they would lose their RCC though, because it's not a racial template like the wolfen, it's a Racial Character Class, big difference.

I'm really not seeing how you think that, demigods and godlings are certainly races, there are just a LOT of different sub-species of them if you will.

[Alrik Vas]

Okay, before I answer, I need to ask a question that I've never been completely clear on. What are the actual rules for taking an OCC when you have an RCC?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Okay, before I answer, I need to ask a question that I've never been completely clear on. What are the actual rules for taking an OCC when you have an RCC?

The rule is you can't unless your RCC specifically says you can.

[Galroth]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

That's my understanding of it. Once you accept the position all your stats are rerolled as per the CK OCC.

It's my understanding that you only re-roll if your racial stat dice pool is smaller than the Cosmo Knight dice pool. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

[Alrik Vas]

Okay, before I answer, I need to ask a question that I've never been completely clear on. What are the actual rules for taking an OCC when you have an RCC?

The rule is you can't unless your RCC specifically says you can.

Oh palladium and your awesome case-by-case rulings

[Tor]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

Nope, it never explicitly says that as far as I can see.

Even Apoks only lose their OCC skills. Presumably they keep their related and secondary

That's my understanding of it. Once you accept the position all your stats are rerolled as per the CK OCC.

Assumption, not understanding

The rule is you can't unless your RCC specifically says you can.

I've never seen that rule anywhere. If RCCs give an OCC list then you can start with one, but any RCC can use the multiple OCC rule to gain a new OCC, even if that new one is their first one.

It's my understanding that you only re-roll if your racial stat dice pool is smaller than the Cosmo Knight dice pool. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

Sometimes I wonder how we determine which is greater though, when it gives these ultimatums. Better minimum, average or maximum?

A house rule I think a lot of people probably use in regard to things like demigods or cosmoknights which give attributes that modify races is: "how does this compare to 3d6?" and then "modify that relative amount to the RCC".

I like the idea of doing that, for better or for worse, as it gives more racial flavour to cosmo-knights and demi-gods. The idea of "replace if better" just makes everyone so generic and boring. By the rules that's what you do, but ... meh.

Basically I think Orc Cosmo-Knights or Demigods should have IQs of 2d6+2, and PSs of 4d6+33/5d6+5, because it's cooler.

Otherwise it's like the forge is rewriting your race... like the past you and your heritage barely mattered...

[Akashic Soldier]

I just roll twice and take whichever ends up higher.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I just roll twice and take whichever ends up higher.

Which is fine if that's how your GM does things, but it is not canon.

~ Josh

[Akashic Soldier]

Which is fine if that's how your GM does things, but it is not canon.

~ Josh

"Use these attributes or those of the character's original race, whichever is HIGHER" is what is says.

So, we can either take it mean "whoever has the greatest potential" however, since the forge chooses its champions on an individual basis, I think it is a safe assumption that it means that it means the character's racial attributes. Especially, given that it is a transformitive process into a new creature.

For example:

John Apple has an iron will (M.E. 24) and that is why he was chosen by the forge but when he is transformed from a human into a Cosmo Knight he rolls 4D6+4 and only gets 16. So, should we assume that all of a sudden the quality for which John Apple was chosen diminishes? Does the transformation make them less?

The thing to remember, is that the Cosmo Knight transformation is something that HAPPENS to an individual somewhat akin to cosmic bio-wizardry. They are tapped either by the Forge itself or by its fires and transformed into MORE. The same way Hal Jordan was an exceptional pilot prior to becoming the Green Lantern. When he became the Green Lantern he did not suddenly lose his piloting ability.

I assume it is much the same.

That said, it does say that the transformation does take memories and such from candidates sometimes to make them more efficient servants. I'd assume this would NOT be detrimental to their mental attributes though because it does not say it is, in fact most races are more likely to have an increase in their mental attributes from the transformation. My point is, this is essentially a template. Once minute you are a mild mannered street cop busting bad guys, the next minute you are a cosmic herald busting bad guys on the cosmic course ways of the Megaverse. The attributes are supposed to represent a BOOST in the character's powers and abilities.

We could speculate that they mean they're completely rerolled, but how does that make sense?

Inverting the example above, Desmond has an I.Q. of 24. He is a regular Mr. Fantastic with a heart of gold. The forge chooses him to become a Cosmo Knight. Desmond's race (can't think of one off the top of my head) has 4D6 for their I.Q. attribute which is "potentially" greater than the Cosmo Knight. However, the transformation makes him reroll and he only gets a 6. Now, a babbling idiot how is Desmond to serve the Forge with his great mind?

More to the point, why did adopting an O.C.C. all of a sudden change his psychology and physiology in a detrimental way? Wouldn't it make more sense to choose your race/R.C.C., roll attributes, and then add your O.C.C. and any applicable changes or modifications?

Wouldn't it make more sense to use the dice rolls or the character's original racial attributes, whichever is HIGHER? Like it says?

More to the point as a general rule, you will notice (you would've noticed this I am sure Josh) that Palladium uses "or higher" in regard to static numerical values. Save vs Pain (16 or HIGHER). Its a common Palladiumism and seems pretty straight forward to me.

Am I missing something here?

[Vrykolas2k]

When you become a cosmo knight, don't you become a Cosmo-Knight? Similar in that way of becoming an Apok?

I thought you lost what you were and could only be what you had become.

The problem you run into is what about those who have racial abilities that wouldn't logically make sense to lose. You wouldn't expect a Wolven to lose its claws, tail, teeth, or fur even though it became a Cosmo-Knight so should still retain what those would do for him (along with the enhanced senses). Otherwise it falls into the category over the arguments regarding demi-gods who're children of something other than humans and gods, like a god/wolven demi-god. The idea of it somehow being born without Wolven traits like claws or enhanced senses is ridiculous but the OCC is shown being written around humans who have no special attributes to add to things. The same holds with the Cosmo-Knight and how much of its original physical characteristics would add into the mix after becoming one.

As far as why the Forge doesn't empower these more powerful beings with its might as one of its champions, well it ought to be fairly obvious that power can be corrupting and your average demi-god or godling already starts in a bad place (especially the Godling) so empowering them just too readily leads to fallen knights and as a compassionate being the Forge tries to avoid picking people who're too likely to fail and subject them to that agony. Plus given we don't know why the Forge avoids it it could very likely be that in the dim past it DID and it proved a disaster but no one remembers those fallen super Cosmo-Knights except perhaps as distorted myths and legends.

I don't see anything wrong with say, Wolfen keeping claws/tail etc if they become a Cosmoknight. I'm just saying you lose your RCC/OCC and become a Cosmoknight, even rerolling your stats to use the CK stats. Your sense of smell bonus would stay, you'd keep your free WP and initiaive bonus.

if a Godling/Demigod became one, they would lose their RCC though, because it's not a racial template like the wolfen, it's a Racial Character Class, big difference.

The wolfen wouldn't lose any of its racial abilities for becoming a Cosmo-Knight, just like if the wolfen became a Ley Line Walker.
As for the re-rolling of stats, you compare the C-K with whatever race you are and keep the better of the two.
What's really interesting is a Seljuk Fallen who decides to go the magic route...

[Alrik Vas]

Oddly enough, I did list all of the wolfen racial abilities, and did say they would keep them.

[Tor]

it does say that the transformation does take memories and such from candidates sometimes to make them more efficient servants.

Pretty sure that happens to Guardians, but where does it specify this happening to Cosmo-Knights?

a Seljuk Fallen who decides to go the magic route...

I'm not sure they could. I don't think the low PPE is the sole reason Seljuk can't do magic... though I'm not totally sure. Invalians (DB3) seem like a bit of a similar situation except their low PPE is from a magical curse instead of a magical burnout. I don't think they normally learn magic either.

[Vrykolas2k]

Oddly enough, I did list all of the wolfen racial abilities, and did say they would keep them.

And I was agreeing.

[Alrik Vas]

Fine then. Just agree with me.

[Tor]

Guys, this thread is about Seljuk, not Wolfen.

Also, why is it that Seljuk can become Phase Mystics when Rifts Book of Magic clearly specifies that Phase Mystics are a magical OCC and Seljuks can't select magical OCCs?

[Alrik Vas]

Was just an example. If Seljuk's can't become magic occ's, I'd restrict them from Cosmo Knight. They're a ton of PPE and their powers are supernatural in nature, if not cosmic oggalie-boogalie.

[Tor]

Having powers which are supernatural in nature doesn't make you a magic OCC though. Cosmo-Knights aren't listed in Book of Magic like Phase Mystics and Time Masters, so they are not a magic OCC.

[Alrik Vas]

Very true. Though I did say "I'd restrict them", not, "This is unallowable by the RAW."

[Vrykolas2k]

Guys, this thread is about Seljuk, not Wolfen.

Also, why is it that Seljuk can become Phase Mystics when Rifts Book of Magic clearly specifies that Phase Mystics are a magical OCC and Seljuks can't select magical OCCs?

Phase Mystics are a psychic class, not a magical one.
Regular mystics are a magical class.

[Tor]

Book of Magic classifies them as a magical class. I too had thought they were more psychic in nature, but clearly I was mistaken. Their Phase Powers and anti-magic field are obviously closer to mystical in nature. I am supposing that since they are a magical class who don't utilize PPE that this is why Seljuk are able to select them.

[Vrykolas2k]

Book of Magic classifies them as a magical class. I too had thought they were more psychic in nature, but clearly I was mistaken. Their Phase Powers and anti-magic field are obviously closer to mystical in nature. I am supposing that since they are a magical class who don't utilize PPE that this is why Seljuk are able to select them.

Aftermath says that Arkhons are robotic... I think it's just two examples of certain Palladium people not paying attention to their own books.

[Tor]

Hm that blurb on the the right column of page 154. Technically it says "robot-like aliens". So rather than robotic or literally being robots, we could just say they have a robotic mentality, and they do have a lot of robotic ships and military arrangements.

Heck, except for the Splugorth they're the only power I know of on earth with an organized militia capable of space flight. How they got past the defensive satellites I don't know.

I can't remember how well MiO defined those killer sats.

[The Beast]

Heck, except for the Splugorth they're the only power I know of on earth with an organized militia capable of space flight. How they got past the defensive satellites I don't know.

They came from the other direction...

[Vrykolas2k]

Hm that blurb on the the right column of page 154. Technically it says "robot-like aliens". So rather than robotic or literally being robots, we could just say they have a robotic mentality, and they do have a lot of robotic ships and military arrangements.

Heck, except for the Splugorth they're the only power I know of on earth with an organized militia capable of space flight. How they got past the defensive satellites I don't know.

I can't remember how well MiO defined those killer sats.

Primus, they aren't described as robot-like in their book of origin (save for their 'borg).
Secundus, they are an actual military not a militia.

[Tor]

They came from the other direction...

What other direction? The killer sats are around the whole planet.

All I can figure is maybe they landed so early that the orbital communities didn't have their defenses well enough in place to obliterate'm.

Primus, they aren't described as robot-like in their book of origin (save for their 'borg). Secundus, they are an actual military not a militia.

We should keep in mind that Aftermath is set in the future relative to preceding world books, so it could be that in the time lapse, the Arkhon's military structure and combat emphasis has been changed to be more robotic. Let's cross our fingers for such details to be revealed to us in SA3. We must have two dozen or so books about North America already so it's inevitable... right?

[The Beast]

They came from the other direction...

What other direction? The killer sats are around the whole planet.

All I can figure is maybe they landed so early that the orbital communities didn't have their defenses well enough in place to obliterate'm..

The satellites are facing Earth. The orbitals at the time were more worried about stuff coming up from Earth, and didn't have enough resources devoted to keeping stuff from reaching Earth. In addition to that, the Arkon ships were way tougher than what the orbitals had designed their containment system to handle. Thus some ships were able crash land on Earth, and some were able to retreat to Mars.

[Nightmask]

They came from the other direction...

What other direction? The killer sats are around the whole planet.

All I can figure is maybe they landed so early that the orbital communities didn't have their defenses well enough in place to obliterate'm.

The satellites are facing Earth. The orbitals at the time were more worried about stuff coming up from Earth, and didn't have enough resources devoted to keeping stuff from reaching Earth. In addition to that, the Arkon ships were way tougher than what the orbitals had designed their containment system to handle. Thus some ships were able crash land on Earth, and some were able to retreat to Mars.

The Arkons got to Earth simply because they had enough ships (albeit heavily damaged) and were moving fast enough to be able to make it to the surface. The notes on their arrival describe a titanic battle with the orbital community and yes given they were going down and likely at considerable speed they simply outran the Earth-facing weapons platforms so only took a few hits from those before getting outside their range.

[MADMANMIKE]

Heck, except for the Splugorth they're the only power I know of on earth with an organized militia capable of space flight. How they got past the defensive satellites I don't know.

Uuhh... the Splugorth clearly came through dimensional portals.. hence the dimensional market at Splynn...

[Tor]

Pretty much everything on Rifts Earth came through portals. If you want to evaluate militaries that came from outerspace I'm not sure if I remember any besides the Arkhons.

If we're looking at earth-native space travel I figure the top guys are the NGR and I think Aftermath mentioned some weird experimental thing going on in some other European nation. Anyone recall where Japan was?

[Vrykolas2k]

Pretty much everything on Rifts Earth came through portals. If you want to evaluate militaries that came from outerspace I'm not sure if I remember any besides the Arkhons.

If we're looking at earth-native space travel I figure the top guys are the NGR and I think Aftermath mentioned some weird experimental thing going on in some other European nation. Anyone recall where Japan was?

Japan's a bit south-east of China...

[Tor]

South? Did it move?

[Vrykolas2k]

South? Did it move?

Nope.
It's called a joke...

[Blue_Lion]

If I recall right a cosmo knight broke threw the orbital defence and left earth.

[Blue_Lion]

If I recall right a cosmo knight broke threw the orbital defence and left earth.

Huh?

I belive in one of the SA books a cosmo knight was rifted to earths and was able to leave the planet.

[Giant2005]

If I recall right a cosmo knight broke threw the orbital defence and left earth.

Huh?

I belive in one of the SA books a cosmo knight was rifted to earths and was able to leave the planet.

Some Cosmo-Knights have tried to leave Earth's Atmosphere and have never been heard from again. They probably died.

[cornholioprime]

They are MDC creatures with supernatural strength and endurance, but so are Kreeghor, who can explicitly become Cosmo-Knights, so clearly having supernatural attributes doesn't qualify you as a supernatural being, or the Kreeghor would be, and would not be able to become Cosmo-Knights. Clearly it must explicitly say you are supernatural, or else some other form of reasoning besides SN attributes must be used to categorize them as that.

I do not see Seljuk explicitly called supernatural creatures under their statistics. The term "supernatural" does occur in their racial description outside of strength/endurance, but I am not certain whether or not it is right to conclude it applies to the race itself.

The phrase occurs in the first paragraph on page 69 "They all became supernatural, mega-damage creatures!"

The Seljuk, as they exist today, are no more "supernatural" than are Coalition Mutant Bears, Xiticix, or Titan Juicers.
(Note that all of these creatures also have Supernatural Strength and Endurance.)


C.J. Carella, in his time here at Palladium Books, made rather excessive use of the word "supernatural," even once applying the term to a Psychic Character Class if I remember correctly.


Seljuk would therefore be suitable candidates for the Cosmic Forge to convert into Cosmo-Knights.

[Tor]

Seljuk, as they exist today, are no more "supernatural" than are Coalition Mutant Bears, Xiticix, or Titan Juicers. (Note that all of these creatures also have Supernatural Strength and Endurance.)

This alone would not be reason for me to wonder if they're supernatural, but rather in combination with the text also calling them a supernatural being in their pre-devolution state.

C.J. Carella, in his time here at Palladium Books, made rather excessive use of the word "supernatural," even once applying the term to a Psychic Character Class if I remember correctly.

Our judgment of that is irrelevant, if something is called a supernatural creature by him then we should consider them such. With the Seljuk, their being supernatural was quite tied to the PPE on their planet

The main problem is the wording could potentially be in the past tense. They evolved into supernatural creatures, but that was prior to the ritual which stole their magic abilities, so I'm unclear if they remained supernatural or if they lost that attribute. They aren't otherwise described as being supernatural in the present tense so I'm not sure they remained that way.

If I recall right a cosmo knight broke threw the orbital defence and left earth.

Huh?

I belive in one of the SA books a cosmo knight was rifted to earths and was able to leave the planet.

Some Cosmo-Knights have tried to leave Earth's Atmosphere and have never been heard from again. They probably died.

I want to believe this... it rings a bell like I read it somewhere but I can't recall where. I want to say SA2 since it has the Arkhons but couldn't find it.

[Giant2005]

If I recall right a cosmo knight broke threw the orbital defence and left earth.

Huh?

I belive in one of the SA books a cosmo knight was rifted to earths and was able to leave the planet.

Some Cosmo-Knights have tried to leave Earth's Atmosphere and have never been heard from again. They probably died.

I want to believe this... it rings a bell like I read it somewhere but I can't recall where. I want to say SA2 since it has the Arkhons but couldn't find it.

Just looked it up (SA2 page 47) and it was only a single Cosmo Knight that has made the attempt.

[Tor]

Ah, the mysterious 5th Knight from Manco Capac's chosen. I was only looking 'round the Arkhons so it being under the Sun Empire explains why I couldn't relocate it.

Must be them satellite rail guns from MiO.