Purchasing property: How much does it cost?

[Colt47]

Just wondering, but are there any official numbers on how much property costs to purchase at a major settlement like Arzno?

[Pepsi Jedi]

I don't remember seeing such. with 90% of the planet being unclaimed wilderness, I don't think it's ever come up that people needed to buy land... but now that you mention it, yeah, in cities youd' have to.

*Waves hand* GM call.

[dragonfett]

I would personally make it low to encourage the PC's to want a home base of sorts.

[Zamion138]

land not near a city or owner...... its free just keep it yours is the trick

in a city it would depend just like now, the neighborhood, the economy, the crime rate....ect. id say farm land ultra cheap, shop space in a major city massivly exspensive, warehouse space in a crime ridden part of town id make pretty cheap......can always cast compulsion on the owner and make them just have to and i mean have to sell that land though

[Akashic Soldier]

Look up the cost of land today, multiply it by 3 and roughly that much in credits.
That said, most land is unclaimed take what is yours and hold it like they did back in the days of the ole West.

[Icefalcon]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

[Athos]

I would make a single family dwelling in a "safe" city / town cost about 200-400k credits. Then I would have the character pay "taxes" on the property every year, as well as utilities, etc.

If the character is part of the guard or militia, they might get a break on housing and taxes...

Property is a great way to take money out of the game and to add some great RP opportunities.

[Icefalcon]

I would make a single family dwelling in a "safe" city / town cost about 200-400k credits. Then I would have the character pay "taxes" on the property every year, as well as utilities, etc.

I would probably make it closer to one thousand credits for the house, but then I like to drain the pockets of the characters a little more.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I would make a single family dwelling in a "safe" city / town cost about 200-400k credits. Then I would have the character pay "taxes" on the property every year, as well as utilities, etc.

If the character is part of the guard or militia, they might get a break on housing and taxes...

Property is a great way to take money out of the game and to add some great RP opportunities.

That seems a bit low when you look at other prices... like.. the cost for recharging one eclip.

[Gamer]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

[Colt47]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

Megacrete is probably more like 450-600 credits per bag than 8000 credits given how many super structures there are in North America. For 8000 credits the player should probably get enough material to actually do something useful with besides cement his or her own feet to the ground.

[taalismn]

Also figure in if you're hooking up to the local utilities like power and water...and if such has to be extended out to your property. Some kingdoms might give you a deal if you cover that by meeting them (more than) halfway...with the idea that the extension trunks(power and sewer) can be used by other adjacent lots as well. If you're providing your own, great! And if you got surplus(like your starship-grade fusion reactor has power to spare from powering your two-story castille) you can sell to your neighbors!

[Pepsi Jedi]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

Megacrete is probably more like 450-600 credits per bag than 8000 credits given how many super structures there are in North America. For 8000 credits the player should probably get enough material to actually do something useful with besides cement his or her own feet to the ground.

But there's NOT that many super structures in NA.... that's the thing, and the one's that are, are usually built by governments. The CS, or one of the Magic Kingdoms. Or big cities like Merctown, or multi million dollar units ect.

[Akashic Soldier]

But there's NOT that many super structures in NA.... that's the thing, and the one's that are, are usually built by governments. The CS, or one of the Magic Kingdoms. Or big cities like Merctown, or multi million dollar units ect.

Exactly. According to Mad Haven a lot of the city was mega-concrete but that is not MOST and it was on the cutting edge. Most places since then are going to be normal SDC (while they rebuild during the cataclysm) and later you might have Mega-cities like old NYC again (Chi-Town) but for the most part its just not cost effective unless you are the bugs.

[Colt47]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

Megacrete is probably more like 450-600 credits per bag than 8000 credits given how many super structures there are in North America. For 8000 credits the player should probably get enough material to actually do something useful with besides cement his or her own feet to the ground.

But there's NOT that many super structures in NA.... that's the thing, and the one's that are, are usually built by governments. The CS, or one of the Magic Kingdoms. Or big cities like Merctown, or multi million dollar units ect.

That's still not that cost effective compared to SDC building materials, though. SDC Concrete is probably 80 credits a bag at most, and that isn't taking into account the costs of the metal beams and other construction materials.

[Nightmask]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

Megacrete is probably more like 450-600 credits per bag than 8000 credits given how many super structures there are in North America. For 8000 credits the player should probably get enough material to actually do something useful with besides cement his or her own feet to the ground.

But there's NOT that many super structures in NA.... that's the thing, and the one's that are, are usually built by governments. The CS, or one of the Magic Kingdoms. Or big cities like Merctown, or multi million dollar units ect.

That's still not that cost effective compared to SDC building materials, though. SDC Concrete is probably 80 credits a bag at most, and that isn't taking into account the costs of the metal beams and other construction materials.

I can see some Warlocks in the construction industry like that, given Earth Warlocks can practically produce metal courtesy of a creative use of Create Steel and Rust (and actually can create iron at higher levels) as well as clay that can be turned into stone with a few spells and they can even create wood and cast Ironwood on it to make it into cheap yet extremely durable building materials.

[Pepsi Jedi]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

Have you seen the price of that megacrete in Merc ops?
There's no way you could afford to build anything with that without a Monte Haul GM.

Megacrete is probably more like 450-600 credits per bag than 8000 credits given how many super structures there are in North America. For 8000 credits the player should probably get enough material to actually do something useful with besides cement his or her own feet to the ground.

But there's NOT that many super structures in NA.... that's the thing, and the one's that are, are usually built by governments. The CS, or one of the Magic Kingdoms. Or big cities like Merctown, or multi million dollar units ect.

That's still not that cost effective compared to SDC building materials, though. SDC Concrete is probably 80 credits a bag at most, and that isn't taking into account the costs of the metal beams and other construction materials.

I can totally seeing the megacrete being that expensive. MDC Armor and MDC weapons are often $100,000s if not $1,000,000s. Being able to build out of material that can take a tank blast or dragon fire would be very pricy.

Is it cost effective compared to SDC? No. Not at all. But then neither are MD weapons compared to SD weapons. I can totally see megacrete being the providence of major governments. Smaller towns might have, like, the sheriff's station or county seat being megacrete, surrounded by others that are just normal SDC.

Smaller places likely wouldn't have any such protection.

[Nightmask]

You would also have to determine if it already has a building on it or not. I have also noticed a serious lack of pricing for building materials for players who want to make their own base, whether it be in the city or a wilderness.

If you go by the 'building a village/town/city' rules you can just about ignore that as part of the cost of building a town. Just select city features of a limited nature focused around what you'd expect for a permanent PC base/settlement. You'll get a rough cost for constructing a base going that route and what it would take for them to make one and how long to get it completed.

[Gamer]

Oh i forgot the CS has an infinite budget to go with it's infinite army.
Same goes with all the other places with their mega walls surrounding them, they could very easily have afforded to build those insane structures during the dark ages.
Those places had all the resources they needed to do it.
Those other places that are just going to spring up in the next books are goingto be the same way.
During the dark ages and soon after everyone could afford to have done that.
What ever

[Akashic Soldier]

Oh i forgot the CS has an infinite budget to go with it's infinite army.
Same goes with all the other places with their mega walls surrounding them, they could very easily have afforded to build those insane structures during the dark ages.
Those places had all the resources they needed to do it.
Those other places that are just going to spring up in the next books are goingto be the same way.
During the dark ages and soon after everyone could afford to have done that.
What ever

Karl (or whoever was in charge before him) stands up on his precipices and projects himself out over every TV in every Coalition residence in North America and tells his people to buy war bonds, that their country needs them and we all must make sacrifices and work twice as hard. Its got nothing to do with limited resources or man power, especially when you are a regime that has no real moral quandaries with taking what you want. Remember, the CS EXPAND that is their primary strategy; they sweep over something they want and then it becomes theirs or it is destroyed. Their resources are only as limited as their ability to take what they want from those weaker than themselves. Which, lets face it...

[Pepsi Jedi]

Oh i forgot the CS has an infinite budget to go with it's infinite army.
Same goes with all the other places with their mega walls surrounding them, they could very easily have afforded to build those insane structures during the dark ages.
Those places had all the resources they needed to do it.
Those other places that are just going to spring up in the next books are goingto be the same way.
During the dark ages and soon after everyone could afford to have done that.
What ever

Again, you act like there's just 100s of the places. There's not. 90% of the world is still wilderness.

Yes the CS has millions of people. Taxes man. You're acting like you've never heard of the concept. lol. the US Spends BILLIONS on defense. The CS is not as big as the US by far, but yes they have 10s of millions of citizens, so they do get taxes.

"All those other places" are communities of thousands or 10s of 1000s. Again, when you get 1000s of people all pitching in for mutual defense to put walls around their big city (( Merc Town, ect)) they can pull it off.

Governments also can produce at cost. Not retail. They don't pay the same thing as a guy walking into Lowes or something. They can produce such things MUCH cheeper than retail.

Don't get me wrong, it's expensive, but it's expensive on purpose.

[Icefalcon]

By comparison, I would choose to build using Steel Tree lumber from Dinosaur Swamp. In price, it is cheaper than most other materials and has the added advantage of being replenishable.

[Pepsi Jedi]

By comparison, I would choose to build using Steel Tree lumber from Dinosaur Swamp. In price, it is cheaper than most other materials and has the added advantage of being replenishable.

harvesting and transport from dino swamp might make the price jump dramatically. Moving trees out of a swamp is NOT easy today. Cutting down MDC trees, likewise not easy.

Doing both while LITERAL Dinosaurs try and eat you..... lol EXTRA hard.

[Icefalcon]

By comparison, I would choose to build using Steel Tree lumber from Dinosaur Swamp. In price, it is cheaper than most other materials and has the added advantage of being replenishable.

harvesting and transport from dino swamp might make the price jump dramatically. Moving trees out of a swamp is NOT easy today. Cutting down MDC trees, likewise not easy.

Doing both while LITERAL Dinosaurs try and eat you..... lol EXTRA hard.

Bunch of Juicers with Wellington Industries chainsaws, a few behemoth explorers and about four 'borgs as perimeter guards and you have enough to build a base of operations for the players. Alternately, this could be made into an adventure arc for the players to make the cost of their materials less.

[Pepsi Jedi]

By comparison, I would choose to build using Steel Tree lumber from Dinosaur Swamp. In price, it is cheaper than most other materials and has the added advantage of being replenishable.

harvesting and transport from dino swamp might make the price jump dramatically. Moving trees out of a swamp is NOT easy today. Cutting down MDC trees, likewise not easy.

Doing both while LITERAL Dinosaurs try and eat you..... lol EXTRA hard.

Bunch of Juicers with Wellington Industries chainsaws, a few behemoth explorers and about four 'borgs as perimeter guards and you have enough to build a base of operations for the players. Alternately, this could be made into an adventure arc for the players to make the cost of their materials less.

I actually looked it up last night because I was bored. Turns out the megadamage qualities comes from baking the steel tree in MD fire and what not, and the MD is reliativly minor.

The barbarians and one city in the south can refine a steel tree alloy, but the process is secret and book says cannot be reproduced outside of there.

Couple that with the 'end result' of low MD and I dont' think it'd be worth it. Is MD Great? Yeah, but 5 to 10 MD per 5 or 10 foot space is very very low. (( When speaking of MD)

Is it AMAZING if all your foes only have SDC weapons! Yes!! But when one bandit with a bargain basement vibro knife can penetrate your md walls with one slash, maybe 2, then it's not really worth that much hassle to harvest, mill, then 'convert' to MD (( Baking in the MD flames or if the alloy, some sort of quasi-magical thing))

You'd get more MD by duct taping Fury beetle hides to your wall.

[Colt47]

To each his own Pepsi Jedi. I can easily see Megacrete being cheaper point for point than gear, armor, weapons, and vehicles. It just makes no sense to have it at 8k a bag under any kind of sane thinking process due to other considerations when constructing a building. Given the track record for some pricing models in Rifts, this isn't exactly surprising.

[Icefalcon]

There is always the Quick Camp Field Structure in Rifter #48. They give stats for the portable shelter. It costs 200,000 credits and has 100 MDC per 10 foot section. There are also extras that can be added on (generator, TW generator, force field, additional armor, radiation shielding, etc.) for extra cost. This seems a much more viable solution seeing as how it is portable.

[dragonfett]

Just out of morbid curiosity I decided to calculate how much it would cost to build just one mile worth of the wall surrounding MercTown (which is stated in MercTown to be 75' tall and 40' thick, p. 33, right column, top of the page) and did so assuming a price of 8,000 cr/bag of Megacrete and this is how much: 41,838,720,000,000 cr. Yes, 41 TRILLION CREDITS!!! Even if we assume that MercTown was able to get it at cost (lets assume for a moment that is half) and got a bulk order discount of 25%, that would still leave us at 15.7 Trillion cr.

[Nightmask]

Just out of morbid curiosity I decided to calculate how much it would cost to build just one mile worth of the wall surrounding MercTown (which is stated in MercTown to be 75' tall and 40' thick, p. 33, right column, top of the page) and did so assuming a price of 8,000 cr/bag of Megacrete and this is how much: 41,838,720,000,000 cr. Yes, 41 TRILLION CREDITS!!! Even if we assume that MercTown was able to get it at cost (lets assume for a moment that is half) and got a bulk order discount of 25%, that would still leave us at 15.7 Trillion cr.

So even at a cost of just 8 credits a bag it would have been $41 billion, enough to cover the funding for a virtual army of Glitter Boys. Sounds REALLY unlikely costs come anywhere close to that high.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Just out of morbid curiosity I decided to calculate how much it would cost to build just one mile worth of the wall surrounding MercTown (which is stated in MercTown to be 75' tall and 40' thick, p. 33, right column, top of the page) and did so assuming a price of 8,000 cr/bag of Megacrete and this is how much: 41,838,720,000,000 cr. Yes, 41 TRILLION CREDITS!!! Even if we assume that MercTown was able to get it at cost (lets assume for a moment that is half) and got a bulk order discount of 25%, that would still leave us at 15.7 Trillion cr.

The entire wall doesn't have to be built out of it. Just he outer coating. You can build a frame work of I beams, fill it in with rock from around the area, from old buildings, ect, or even normal concrete, then put on the outer layers of MDC material.

[azazel1024]

That aside, regular concrete is probably going to be in the range of 2-10cr per bag at most. Even if you tripple current prices and make them credits, your average 60lb bag of concrete only costs about $1.5-2.

As for the price of a home, just assuming parity pricing in credits, the raw materials for your basic 1,200sq-ft single story home with no basement is probably going to cost around $20,000 not including labor costs or 20,000 credits. If you throw in labor maybe double that. Land is going to have some value in any kind of settlement, even a rural town if you live anything remotely near the center of town, someone is going to "own it" or at least claim it.

I'd say your basic 20-21st century equivelent small single family home in something like a rural town (IN the town, not simply near it) is probably going to run you in the range of 50,000-60,000 credits. A medium sized home maybe 80,000-100,000 credits and a large one 120,000-200,000 credits depending on just how large (not including something like a mansion). In a big town probably increase costs by 50%. In a big city, triple costs and generally it won't be a single family detached, it'll be a townhouse/rowhouse/brown stone/insert your local "name" for attached single family home.

Really big or very lux construction and finishing can increase costs from 20-2,000% as well as living in the nicest of nice sections.

So that nicely decked out little 8 bedroom mansion in the really nice section of Kingston on an acre and gated and fenced might run you 3-4 million credits, a truely swank 4,000 sq-ft "flat" in Chi Town in the elite section might be 20-40 million credits and a modest 4 bedroom farm house on 20 acres on the edge of a little 2,000 person village near Merc Town might be 200,000 credits.



Oh as for material costs, home depot prices are significantly higher than if you are buying stuff in bulk. It is I think about 60 bags per cubic yard, working out to around $100 or so at "per bag" prices. Pre-mixed paying per cubic yard truck delivered is approximately $65 per cubic yard (about 9-10 cubic yards in a full truck). So you can calculate project costs based on that. Also that is paying someone who is going to have a profit margin. Buying in extreme bulk (which I'd imagine a wall the size of the one surrounding Merc town qualifies as) could probably be had at a bigger discount and if it is a gov't run business there is no profit margin to worry about at all, which could run from a 20-80% discount (no idea what "profit margin" is tacked on to concrete costs).

A wall 70ft tall and 35ft wide and 1 mile long takes about 480,000 cubic yards for something solid. That works out to around only 32 million dollars if you are paying per truck. Throw in rebar at current prices as well as ply and other materials for the forms and really you are talking more like 40 million dollars for a wall of that size, not including labor costs or other equipment costs.

That isn't that much, even if you multiply the price by 10x for MDC concrete. Doing that a 10 mile perimeter wall comes out around 4 billion credits, which isn't THAT obscene to protect your city. Its a lot of money...but at the same time, not likely to be built all at once. Probably the entire tax revenues of Merc town for a couple of years, but if the wall was built over a 10-20 year span, it could be funded and for that matter, since it is MDC, short of it being blown up or something (all of it) it is not like it is going to need much in the way of maintenance.

[Joseph Kerr]

Aren't some of these buildings and structures pre-existing that people have just holed up in?

What would be the cost of slicing up MDC structures and making walls out of them? Or instead of buying all the materials or slicing up a pre-existing structure, taking the building and just patching up the holes?

[taalismn]

Aren't some of these buildings and structures pre-existing that people have just holed up in?

What would be the cost of slicing up MDC structures and making walls out of them? Or instead of buying all the materials or slicing up a pre-existing structure, taking the building and just patching up the holes?

Depends who you're buying from and what they'll willing to charge for their work. After all, many old ruins are lairs for monsters or bandits. The people who go in to clean up these places, then tear them down, may decide to charge for their effort. In areas where there's a lot of danger and people are desperate for fortification materials, demand can drive the price up.

As for do-it-yourself fixer-uppers? You're still going to need patching materials; if you're just doing a patch-job, then use the figures for MDC concrete and calculate what you need to fill the different-sized holes. Matching materials may be a bit more expensive. You might want to look at the prices for patching vehicular armor and reducing the prices by perhaps 20-30% to take into account the fact that you're not going to need a lot of cutting and shaping for slabs of material. Also figure that renovating an abandoned structure you're going to want to also put in working plumbing , electricity, ventalation, and the like, unless the previous tenants have left the building already in good working order. At the very least, you'll want spare parts, pumps, and fuses for utilities. Fortunately, for this mundane stuff, you can use existing present day prices for guidelines...a quick walk through a local home improvement or contractor supply outlet can give you ideas...maybe price the stuff 2-10 times more accounting for your place's distance from a good supply of prefabricated materials...or maybe slash the stuff 50% if you're living on top of a supply of the materials(like living in a lumbering community). Maybe 10-100 times the listed price if you're buying MDC equivalents(MDC pipes, valves, etc.).

[Shorty Lickens]

BUMP!


This got me thinking:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#cityBuildings
And I decided to search for a real estate thread in Rifts.



Did anyone ever decide on or make a list of standard home prices? Something either per square foot or maybe just a couple of standardized houses?

[dragonfett]

Talk about a blast from the past man!

[Shark_Force]

as much or as little as you want, basically.

but personally, i'd work from the far low end of the scale in most places. there's tons of land, and not many people. even most "big" cities aren't really all that large, so commuting time isn't exactly a major concern; i mean, think about it, 20-30,000 people is a pretty large city in rifts. how long would it take you to get from one end of a city of that size in a modern car? 10-15 minutes, perhaps, if that?

so if you can buy easy transportation for 20-30,000 credits, and there is basically zero need to worry about long-distance commutes, you realistically can't charge a whole awful lot more for land. if it's 200,000 credits to buy a house in the city and it's basically free to build a log cabin 15 minutes drive away, that 200,000 credit house is going to very rapidly depreciate in value until it reaches a point where you might look at it and legitimately decide that it's worth the extra money to save that 15 minute drive.

i mean, i live in a community with basically no residential buildings above 2 stories tall (plus basement). the tallest building i can think of offhand is a school that has three stories (mostly because it's built on the side of a hill, so one end of it is actually just one story tall). 3 years ago, it had a population listed as 17,000 plus a bit.

i can *walk* from one end to the other (of where it was at that time - it's grown rapidly in recent years) in less than an hour, and that's with it being basically twice the length on one side as the other. and much of that is older houses that aren't packed tight... a good half of it or more consists of houses with full yards, completely detached from each other, easily being 30-40 feet on either side of the house.

in a car, it takes about 15 minutes to drive across the entire area.

now, for a place that is hundreds of thousands of people and no taller structures, it might get a bit more of a commute, but basically, i have a hard time seeing it be an issue for the vast majority of rifts earth to buy a house for dirt cheap. the only time location is likely to be a major concern is for when people will choose to walk (for example, when buying a location for a shop, it's better to have it next to a group of other shops, because people will combine a trip to all those shops together). because if you need 200,000 credits to buy a house in a downtown location, and only 20,000 to buy a vehicle that will let you commute from a nearly free house a mere 15 minutes away, pretty near nobody is going to have a house in that downtown location.

now, obviously getting a house with proper plumbing, water, electrical, etc is going to run you a bit more than that nearly free house i postulated. but the principle remains; when you're dealing with a mere 15 minute commute, you can't really jack the price up that much.

[Tor]

If we look at the ratio between rental prices and property prices IRL, that could give us some idea since we at least know the rental prices of various hotels.

[eliakon]

Which only goes so far. A HUGE variable in land price is desirability. If a location is desirable, then demand will quickly out strip supply and prices will go up, quickly. I would imagine that land prices in Lazlo, or Coalition cities, or other core localities is incredible. The farther out you go the lower prices will get. In some places I expect the prices to be negative, in that if you take the land, and make it used, you will get paid by the locals. I have had several mercenary games that ended up with the mercs being based by some little town, because the locals were more or less paying them to be there. The mercs got food, non-combat hires, etc....and the town got a minor army camped out next door. That tends to really make bandits, and small bands of intelligent monsters think 'lets go pick on some one else.'

[taalismn]

"Good gods, man, the building is nothing but a facade!!"
"It's a fixer-upper. That's why the price is so low!"
"It's more like a fill-in-the-gaping-crater-behind-the-front-door-and-pump-out-the-extra-deep-basement-sump-before-stacking-a-new-building-on-top-of-it!"
"The last owners had a turn of bad luck. But that bad luck can be turned to your advantage!"
"They're not...ah...still on the premises?"

Other factors in determining real estate prices(that don't exist in our current world):
*Ambient PPE levels(or presence of local ley lines/rift activity)
*Resident non-corporeal entities
*Unexploded ordnance, spent ammunition on premises.
*Residual magical/paranormal energies/substances
*Radiation levels
*Proximity to known Coalition(or other local major power) patrol/travel routes
*By extension, proximity to large paramilitary forces(the steadier and more stable, the better)

[Alrik Vas]

I like the 41 trillion cr rockcrete wall of merctown. Seems good.

The actual price is probably somewhere around 2cr a bag to make. They sell it to the government for less than a cr a bag, likely. Then make it back with the high selling price to most other people/groups. a 90% discount isn't unheard of when dealing with a government that is letting you do business under it's protection.

[taalismn]

I like the 41 trillion cr rockcrete wall of merctown. Seems good.

The actual price is probably somewhere around 2cr a bag to make. They sell it to the government for less than a cr a bag, likely. Then make it back with the high selling price to most other people/groups. a 90% discount isn't unheard of when dealing with a government that is letting you do business under it's protection.

Indeed. Another incentive to work for/with a government, if you can be assured of provision of services.

[Shorty Lickens]

As far as desirability goes, I bet anything near a leyline is probably prime real estate to some people.
You could probably assume that any sort of a nexus is already under control by a wizard town, or a powerful independent wizard.

[Shark_Force]

the thing is, until you get into a really large city, you're dealing with a situation where it's within easy travel distance because the transportation technology is so advanced compared to the amount of space it takes to fit people in. i doubt most places other than the CS (at least in north America) don't even bother with anything larger than 2-3 stories, because land is not valuable enough.

[guardiandashi]

As far as desirability goes, I bet anything near a leyline is probably prime real estate to some people.
You could probably assume that any sort of a nexus is already under control by a wizard town, or a powerful independent wizard.

I look at the prices for land and frankly there is likely a MASSIVE sliding scale on how much it costs.

in North America, for instance:
land along the east coast, and anywhere stuff like splugorth or other slavers roam, massively cheap/free, or you have to practically PAY people to even think about being there.

in more "civilized areas" for example in /near areas claimed by the Coalition: humans are likely to find it fairly desirable, Dbees or similar are typically NOT going to be around etc.

regarding other factors I am sure people are going to want to consider things like:
rainfall /precipitation
temperature
resource availability
Military presence
"national tensions"
radiation charts
ley lines or other magic sources.

I am not saying everyone is going to stop and think about all these things but arguably they should....

[rat_bastard]

Expect a pretty decent property tax and I would assume absolutely no real infrastructure hookup as self contained systems would be pretty standard.

[Shark_Force]

"on a ley line" is likely not as big of a modifier as you might think. even for a nexus, not that big of a deal.

something like half a mile from the center of a ley line, and similar for a nexus. and so far as i can tell, unless you put a pyramid on a ley line or nexus there is no reduction in energy regardless of how many people use the ley line or nexus.

that's a pretty ridiculous amount of available real estate. and, since we now have a cap on how much PPE you can draw on, the only difference between a nexus and a ley line as an energy source is how fast you can generate energy (though there are differences in how much it improves the spell's effectiveness).

now, in the town i live (again, basically no tall residential structures, and almost no structures above two stories whatsoever) we have a population density of about 3800/km^2

a 1 mile diameter circle has about 3/4 of a mile square, which works out to about 2 square kilometers, give or take. bearing in mind that some of that is large, spread-out shopping centers and such with large chain stores. so the nexus alone can probably hold over 7,000 people including room for businesses and such. that's enough to allow for an awful lot of spellcasters. if we extend that out to ley lines (for example, if we have a 1 mile square along each ley line, of which there must be two) you can easily get another 2 or more full square miles. that's about 5 square kilometers worth, so room enough for 14,000 or more (again, bearing in mind that there is no need for huge stores like wal-mart, etc).

[keir451]

Let's not forget your friendly neighbor hood Operator. I imagine towns willing to let them live for cehap as long as they stay and help keep power plants and the like up and running. They could also take power palnt form a large vehicle, like a disabled Behemoth or DHT type vehicle and repurpose it to serve as a towns power plant providing cheap energy for all. OIr he could fix up a solar power system or help install wind generators. I kinda imagne a roving Operator/ Tinkerman who comes by every so often to conduct repairs, sell stuff, etc.
Smaller vialages and towns would prpbably pay him in barter with say furs, food and random scraps they find, large towns may have a dedicated payscale and specific materials they provide him with.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think most cities ate going to be socialistic and claim that the land belongs to the city for the greater good of all inhabitants. I don't see many feeling that the private ownership of property is something that is necessary for survival. So they would either lease the land for a fee or demand tariffs of your product. Either way land may be fairly cheap IF the greater good of the community is served by your presence, or it could be very expensive if they don't like you or the people are in need of money. Private property may be a consideration in the NGR and FQ.

[rat_bastard]

In my game we built a city and charged an income tax, a National annuity tax and rent. Rent tended to be very cheap because there was a lot of space and mostly went to maintaining utilities (internet, phones, power and water where all included in this package), after that 1/6th of your income went to taxes that mostly paid for hospitals, schools and military/police and 1/6th went into a retirement account.

a flat third of your income seemed steep until you realized that every building was enchanted by the metropolis spell, meaning it was a regenerating mdc structure guarded by a strong military, complete medical care and a education. However to become a citizen you did have to sign up for public service for 2+ years.

It was one of those few places where you could be educated, work a 9-5 job and retire without your life being in constant danger so people tended to not complain too much.

[taalismn]

In my game we built a city and charged an income tax, a National annuity tax and rent. Rent tended to be very cheap because there was a lot of space and mostly went to maintaining utilities (internet, phones, power and water where all included in this package), after that 1/6th of your income went to taxes that mostly paid for hospitals, schools and military/police and 1/6th went into a retirement account.

a flat third of your income seemed steep until you realized that every building was enchanted by the metropolis spell, meaning it was a regenerating mdc structure guarded by a strong military, complete medical care and a education. However to become a citizen you did have to sign up for public service for 2+ years.

It was one of those few places where you could be educated, work a 9-5 job and retire without your life being in constant danger so people tended to not complain too much.

Sounds fair enough....safety being a big draw on Rifts Earth, I imagine similar such policies and mandatory public service are general policy in the more enlightened citystates. The less enlightened draft you unto service to serve the elite higher-ups, or dangle the prospect of citizenship in return for your hard work and ratting oit your neighbors.