The CS grunt should get as many skills as a Vagabond

[Svartalf]

He's trying to imply that grunts, just because they are military, are part of the elite... completely wrong, of course, grunts may have a foot in the elite's door, but for 99% of skullfaces, that door weight 100 tons and they'll never get in. Grunts are the proletariat of the armed forces, period, and they are treated as the rest of the proletariat.

Also, being military, they are in a much more closely watched environment than ordinary people, meaning that there are lots of things that a civilian can get away with, but they won't.

[Nightmask]

He's trying to imply that grunts, just because they are military, are part of the elite... completely wrong, of course, grunts may have a foot in the elite's door, but for 99% of skullfaces, that door weight 100 tons and they'll never get in. Grunts are the proletariat of the armed forces, period, and they are treated as the rest of the proletariat.

Also, being military, they are in a much more closely watched environment than ordinary people, meaning that there are lots of things that a civilian can get away with, but they won't.

We can see that in the novels, making the mistake of reporting your concerns to your superiors as you're supposed to and next thing you know High Command is using the group's encampment as a heavy missile target test firing range. The guys you give the guns to you always watch more than the ones you keep the guns from especially in a totalitarian state.

[Mack]

Is by chance the RUE grunt a more generic version rather than specifically the CS soldier?

No, the OCC is specific to the CS. And even in the original main book, CS Grunts were allowed to take Literacy as an OCC Related skill.

[Svartalf]

'cept it ain't the US militaries...
In a place like the CS is more like, the next day, as Jones is doing latrine duty, alone, he's grabbed by a discrete secret police team, spends a few monthss under 'investigation' and 'interrogation', and then is either summarily executed, sent to one of Drogues camps, or at the best gets a lifelong assignment to Xiticix territory or the far Northwest corner of Iron Heart.

[Svartalf]

You don't get it...
a) the guy is literate
b) it wasn't in his official file and he had not been officially permitted in his life to get that education
c) he hadn't turned himself in for it and made great shows of political correctness and fidelity to the state and emperor

ergo, he's not a faithful citizen, and ranges from unworthy scumbag to freethinking sedition sower. At best, he gets a **** job in the worst and least sensitive part of the CS to show his dedication, at worst, he's eliminated like the pest he is.

[Mack]

Svartalf, you've got a rather harsh version of how the CS responds to Literacy. One that I don't see in the books. For example, our lowly CS Grunt is allow to get Literacy as either an OCC Related Skill, or as a Secondary Skill (as listed in the RMB).

[Svartalf]

I blame Kevin. He's the one who made all the big fuss about the CS actively discouraging education, having book barbecues and otherwise suppressing means thereto, and treating rogue scholars like they were actively plotting on the Proseks' lives.

[Killer Cyborg]

I blame Kevin. He's the one who made all the big fuss about the CS actively discouraging education, having book barbecues and otherwise suppressing means thereto, and treating rogue scholars like they were actively plotting on the Proseks' lives.

None of which equates to "Grunts can never learn to read."

[Svartalf]

Sure they technically *can*... now, is it reasonable that one would?
a) a person with such superior education and known to have would not likely be taken for grunt work
b) one who was a grunt and secretly had that knowledge would likely get all hell repressed out of him if caught.

[Nightmask]

Sure they technically *can*... now, is it reasonable that one would?
a) a person with such superior education and known to have would not likely be taken for grunt work
b) one who was a grunt and secretly had that knowledge would likely get all hell repressed out of him if caught.

I have to ask, why can't it be considered that the Grunt was taught how to read and write while becoming a grunt? Just because it's not a basic grunt skill given it's listed as available seems like at least some grunts are given access to Literacy during basic training (maybe the ones who seem promising for potential upgrade in the ranks). Don't confuse their label as a 'grunt' as meaning that they're just cannon fodder, just that they're the bulk of the troops.

[Nightmask]

Sure they technically *can*... now, is it reasonable that one would?
a) a person with such superior education and known to have would not likely be taken for grunt work
b) one who was a grunt and secretly had that knowledge would likely get all hell repressed out of him if caught.

I have to ask, why can't it be considered that the Grunt was taught how to read and write while becoming a grunt? Just because it's not a basic grunt skill given it's listed as available seems like at least some grunts are given access to Literacy during basic training (maybe the ones who seem promising for potential upgrade in the ranks). Don't confuse their label as a 'grunt' as meaning that they're just cannon fodder, just that they're the bulk of the troops.

excellent point; no where is it listed, written, stated, or even implied that a grunt may NOT have literacy; in fact, in the movie starship troopers (ssave your groaning, i agree but that's not the pint) the one chick was saying she wants a baby, and a licence to have children is easier to get IF youv served, so maybe a licenece to read is easier to get- if you served.

Well when you look at things they refer to the civilian populace being kept illiterate and well-distracted with creature comforts so that they don't question things. The Military, including the grunts, aren't civilians. Basic literacy would be understandable for your soldiers given you can only get so far with idiot 'so you can't read' signs and diagrams, and the military is going to have situations where being able to read and write is important even for the grunts. Hence why literacy is an option for a Grunt to learn but the average citizen it's considered a threat.

[Crucible]

Coming from a military family and military background...along with four years JROTC I can honestly say that when you are focused on Military...your time to really build outside skills are limited.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't have RUE (at least yet)
But from the RMB CS grunt, and what I generally read about the CS, and it being a capital crime to educate the people, it is clear that the CS doesn't want its grunt level citizenry to have access to education, they don't need it anyway.

Is by chance the RUE grunt a more generic version rather than specifically the CS soldier?

there is a difference from the CS civilian population vs the CS military and CS Elite

Not the Grunts.

then find it unless you're wrong

[Killer Cyborg]

Sure they technically *can*... now, is it reasonable that one would?
a) a person with such superior education and known to have would not likely be taken for grunt work
b) one who was a grunt and secretly had that knowledge would likely get all hell repressed out of him if caught.

a) Why not?
b) Not so long ago, the same could be said for gays in the US military. Did not keep them out.

[Svartalf]

then find it unless you're wrong

its in the RPG; "OCC Requirments: None, just a willingness to fight for humanity."
i remember, cause "none" implies that non-humans could join...... a silly interpretation, of course, id never have allowed it as a gm, but some might......

Actually, you're digging yourself in here... it does mean that just any human can join and be a grunt, in particular those without any education and whose only qualification is being able to carry their kit and survive boot camp.

Grunts may not be civilians, but they are definitely NOT elite, not even close. The fact they are hired by the thousand, without qualification requirements (not even citizenship, since hiring on is a way for burbers to become citizens) means they cannot be trusted far, especially since they are in sensitive positions (in the army).

So if one is more educated than average, and has not come clean with it, you can bet he'll be classified as a potential subversive to be watched like a hawk, just because. The only way a grunt would be officially approved for literacy would be a high level one getting promoted to NCO... a rarity.

[Mercdog]

I can't remember seeing anywhere where it says the CS punishes people just for knowing how to read, just that they would rather people did not know how and actively discourage (not punish) the pursuit of literacy. I've said it before, IMO, the CS anti-literacy campaign is more of a 'soft sell'. "Reading is outdated and passe, we've got everything on video now, so there's really no reason to bother with the hassle of learning how to read." Picture it like this, there are no public libraries in the CS, but they still have the Discovery Channel (Of course, the programming is controlled by the government, and shows only what they allow it to show).

But if you're persistent and driven, with a desire to learn, the CS will keep an eye on you, maybe give you the opprotunity to learn in registered CS academies, and turn you into a responsible CS citizen. After all, the CS could always use a few good men, and not just in military positions. But if you decide you want to go a different way... Well, you can learn everything about the world you could ever want, after you're exiled from the safety Coalition States (not something most CS citizens want). Of course, depending on what you know, you may never leave. At least not breathing.

Now, TEACHING people without being an authorized CS instructor could get you into a bit of trouble. And if you're teaching things that are seen as politically sensitive, encouraging dissent against the states policies, or expressly forbidden information (like true history), then yeah, you'll likely have an encounter with a Black Bag and disappear.

[Svartalf]

b) Not so long ago, the same could be said for gays in the US military. Did not keep them out.

exactly!!!!

but if caught, they still got drummed out dishonorably, that is true in spades in the CS

[Svartalf]

I can't remember seeing anywhere where it says the CS punishes people just for knowing how to read, just that they would rather people did not know how and actively discourage (not punish) the pursuit of literacy. I've said it before, IMO, the CS anti-literacy campaign is more of a 'soft sell'. "Reading is outdated and passe, we've got everything on video now, so there's really no reason to bother with the hassle of learning how to read." Picture it like this, there are no public libraries in the CS, but they still have the Discovery Channel (Of course, the programming is controlled by the government, and shows only what they allow it to show).

But if you're persistent and driven, with a desire to learn, the CS will keep an eye on you, maybe give you the opprotunity to learn in registered CS academies, and turn you into a responsible CS citizen. After all, the CS could always use a few good men, and not just in military positions. But if you decide you want to go a different way... Well, you can learn everything about the world you could ever want, after you're exiled from the safety Coalition States (not something most CS citizens want). Of course, depending on what you know, you may never leave. At least not breathing.

Now, TEACHING people without being an authorized CS instructor could get you into a bit of trouble. And if you're teaching things that are seen as politically sensitive, encouraging dissent against the states policies, or expressly forbidden information (like true history), then yeah, you'll likely have an encounter with a Black Bag and disappear.

Not "just for knowing".

But for oearning out of approved channels. Most people are discouraged from such learning, and education is availabable only if you are approved to get it, that is, you are deemed suitable, and either they agree you will have need to know, or you've got enough support that you're expected to be pushed up into positions where it'll be needed, or you'll be part of the elite and enough of an apparatchik that your loyalty is assumed.

Learning out of approved channels... means that a) you're not loyal, since you did things without approval and b) you might harbor dangerous ideas and knowledge that you must not be allowed to share.

[Mack]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

[Mercdog]

Learning out of approved channels... means that a) you're not loyal, since you did things without approval.

I would argue against that, since IMO, showing drive and initiative is not a show of disloyalty. Being loyal to the state and following every single stipulation put forth by it's leaders are not one and the same.

Now I'd agree that they may want to know how you learned (ie. Who taught you? Your parents? Well meaning neighbor? Did you teach yourself? Was it some d-bee lovin' bleeding heart? What did they use to teach you? A copy of Captain America? The Bible? If Chins could Kill: Confessions of a B-Movie Actor by Bruce Cambell?) How they react will be dependent upon who taught you and how forthcoming you are with that information.

I see where your coming from, I just see it a bit differently.

[Killer Cyborg]

b) Not so long ago, the same could be said for gays in the US military. Did not keep them out.

exactly!!!!

but if caught, they still got drummed out dishonorably, that is true in spades in the CS

As far as I know, literacy is still legal in the CS even (or especially) among its soldiers.
If you care to cite a passage to the contrary, though...?

[Crucible]

Coming from a military family and military background...along with four years JROTC I can honestly say that when you are focused on Military...your time to really build outside skills are limited.

i learned html while on active duty on my own time. ok, literacy is harder, but still the point is you can learn.

Okay, not try it in the war torn post apocalyptic Earth.

How about this while we are at it. Just give all OCC's any skills you want to and play the game. No need in worrying about how realistic it is because heck, how realistic is humanoid dog?

[csbioborg]

Coming from a military family and military background...along with four years JROTC I can honestly say that when you are focused on Military...your time to really build outside skills are limited.

i learned html while on active duty on my own time. ok, literacy is harder, but still the point is you can learn.

Okay, not try it in the war torn post apocalyptic Earth.

How about this while we are at it. Just give all OCC's any skills you want to and play the game. No need in worrying about how realistic it is because heck, how realistic is humanoid dog?

if your stationed in the rear Chi town is much more modern than the US
it really a more post post apocalyptic setting around the CS

[Crucible]

Coming from a military family and military background...along with four years JROTC I can honestly say that when you are focused on Military...your time to really build outside skills are limited.

i learned html while on active duty on my own time. ok, literacy is harder, but still the point is you can learn.

Okay, not try it in the war torn post apocalyptic Earth.

How about this while we are at it. Just give all OCC's any skills you want to and play the game. No need in worrying about how realistic it is because heck, how realistic is humanoid dog?

if your stationed in the rear Chi town is much more modern than the US
it really a more post post apocalyptic setting around the CS

It doesn't matter how modern it is, it matters what your duty is. You will have little to no time to sit around on a keyboard in a CS setting.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

perhaps if they had literacy they could read the books and find out

[csbioborg]

even a grunt is going to have a lot of off time if he is in the rear since
he is mostly going to be a guard
one assumes that they'd rotate between the front and rear every couple years or so

[Crucible]

Argument over! You do know that the Vagabond has only one more skill that the CS Grunt in OCC related and Secondary right?


EDIT: AND CAN TAKE ANY TECHNICAL SKILL...

[Dr. Doom III]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

Exactly.
"In many ways" that says right there that they really are not a member of the Coalition elite.

[Crucible]

so theres nothing sayoing you cant have literacy (that means NOTHING) even if its not encouraged...... and hostory shows us that people CAN serve with a less than perfect pewrsonal deatial (being gay, having broken your right hand over someone elses skull, being literate, etc) and as long as you keep it to yourself, nobody cares.... but literacy is NOT an OCC skill.

Yep...exactly.

[Nightmask]

so theres nothing sayoing you cant have literacy (that means NOTHING) even if its not encouraged...... and hostory shows us that people CAN serve with a less than perfect pewrsonal deatial (being gay, having broken your right hand over someone elses skull, being literate, etc) and as long as you keep it to yourself, nobody cares.... but literacy is NOT an OCC skill.

If it's selectable under the additional OCC skills then it is an OCC skill, even if it's not a core skill all Grunts receive.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

Exactly.
"In many ways" that says right there that they really are not a member of the Coalition elite.

then you should read RUE pg 231 under coalition grunt, Dana.

[Nightmask]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

Exactly.
"In many ways" that says right there that they really are not a member of the Coalition elite.

No, that says that they are, since it's attached to 'even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite'. As far as the regular people go and even the government even the grunt is looked up to due to their military service and gets perks the normal citizen doesn't including the option to learn to read and write. 'Hey you're one of us now, so YOU can learn to read and write if you want to, because you're special'. They aren't getting all the perks of the elite, since like anything else there are perks reserved for those at the highest levels, but they get the core perks and one of those is access to literacy.

[taalismn]

then find it unless you're wrong

its in the RPG; "OCC Requirments: None, just a willingness to fight for humanity."
i remember, cause "none" implies that non-humans could join...... a silly interpretation, of course, id never have allowed it as a gm, but some might......

Actually, you're digging yourself in here... it does mean that just any human can join and be a grunt, in particular those without any education and whose only qualification is being able to carry their kit and survive boot camp.

Grunts may not be civilians, but they are definitely NOT elite, not even close. The fact they are hired by the thousand, without qualification requirements (not even citizenship, since hiring on is a way for burbers to become citizens) means they cannot be trusted far, especially since they are in sensitive positions (in the army).

So if one is more educated than average, and has not come clean with it, you can bet he'll be classified as a potential subversive to be watched like a hawk, just because. The only way a grunt would be officially approved for literacy would be a high level one getting promoted to NCO... a rarity.

Really, I've seen no passages citing that it's illegal for a CS soldier to be literate beyond what's necessary to operate his gear and read instruments, but being literate doesn't necessarily (or automatically) make him one of the Elite, OR a criminal. He might get a little more attention from the secret police when they do their regular sweeps for traitors and infiltrators("..and WHERE have you been spending your off-time? WHO have you been consorting with? And WHAT'S that in your bag?"), but as long as he's careful, a literate Grunt should get by okay.
In fact, while he might be hazed by his illiterate squad mates, a literate Grunt might find himself in a 'Shawshank Redemption'-style situation where his CO might(for good or ill) take advantage of his subordinate's literacy skills to use him to take on more responsiblities(or become the officer's unpaid and blackmailed clerk/secretary)...This might ber a great opportunity for a PC to gain access to info(if he's a spy or mercenary), or it could be an added hell to being a CS Grunt("Don't question what I'm doing, or ordering you to do, with these files. Just do it, or I'll sic the Commissars on you, and who do you think they're going to believe? You, you asscoiator with suspicious characters, or me, the patriotic Coalition hero?").
A literate CS Grunt might also be able to explain his skills as being a fallen member of the social elite, although such would be like admitting that his family did something BAD to warrant discomfiture...

[Nightmask]

No, that says that they are, since it's attached to 'even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite'. As far as the regular people go and even the government even the grunt is looked up to due to their military service and gets perks the normal citizen doesn't including the option to learn to read and write. 'Hey you're one of us now, so YOU can learn to read and write if you want to, because you're special'. They aren't getting all the perks of the elite, since like anything else there are perks reserved for those at the highest levels, but they get the core perks and one of those is access to literacy.

well, sort of; CS militry are seen as "better amongst the masses" rahter than "the elite" pre say; im a deckie from a buoy tender, noot a BO from a sar sta, or a qmow from a big white; i dont jump out of perfectly good planes and I REALLY DON'T WANT TO. hell, i dont wanna jump out of a NOT perfectly good plane!!!!!
but there are some people who do; good for them. they make movies about those guys that jump out of perfectly good planes, not guy that move steel cans around..... the elite get the movies, glory, MPONEY, all that. the rest of us get a paycheck and a kick in the ass years later (bbut in the CS i could learn to read, or at least not be hung for it).

Being given access to literacy, by a government that knows extremely well the power of literacy, is definite a mark of elite status even if you're bottom rung. You may not be anywhere close to high enough to chat up the Emperor but you're definitely more than just a cut above the masses. You must have been vetted pretty good to be let into that circle, or given just the option of joining that circle. The CS isn't going to be treating its own troops that it gives the option of literacy to like disloyal traitors because they chose to learn to read and write. For which I'm still not seeing why one of the posters keeps insisting the CS is going to treat everyone who is literate as the enemy including its own troops that it gave the option of literacy to. You have to have literate people and as any dictator can tell you the one group you always keep happy and feeling special thanks to you it's the military. The guy you let into the club of literacy is going to feel superior to the average citizen and strive harder to defend his society.

[taalismn]

WHOOH-WHO! My major in graphic arts FINALLY becomes something valuable to the Ministry of Propaganda Public Information in an illiterate society! No more editing copy and watching my grammar!

[Lenwen]

-The CS grunt should get as many skills as a Vagabond-

Negative ..

1) - To learn new things in the eyes of the Coalition makes one an enemy ..

2) - The Coalition does not like thier basic troops to know more then basic combat survival tactic's and how to use the items they are given ..

So no. I do not agree that the Coalition grunt's should get as many skills as a Vegabond ..

[taalismn]

-The CS grunt should get as many skills as a Vagabond-

Negative ..

1) - To learn new things in the eyes of the Coalition makes one an enemy ..

2) - The Coalition does not like thier basic troops to know more then basic combat survival tactic's and how to use the items they are given ..

So no. I do not agree that the Coalition grunt's should get as many skills as a Vegabond ..

1) Even if it's new ways to kill the enemy?

2) See 1). If CS Grunt drops or misplaces government-issue items, it would be nice(and cost-effective) if he could maybe use something else to finish his mission/objective? Like being able to strangle his enemy with his shoelaces*? Or maybe commandeer that d-bee's transportation?

*At least seriously abrade the other guy with the velcro...

[Nightmask]

-The CS grunt should get as many skills as a Vagabond-

Negative ..

1) - To learn new things in the eyes of the Coalition makes one an enemy ..

No, to learn new things that aren't approved by the CS may get you considered seditious or make you labeled an enemy simply learning new things does not.

2) - The Coalition does not like thier basic troops to know more then basic combat survival tactic's and how to use the items they are given ..

That's not supported by the text including the OCC. If that were so the OCC would be extremely restrictive on what's available and it's not.

So no. I do not agree that the Coalition grunt's should get as many skills as a Vegabond ..

I don't see how that follows, the number of skills expected of the CS Grunt to be effective for the military being comparable to the number of skills a Vagabond can learn doesn't seem unrealistic. You simply have a different focus on what's essential and what's available to learn on the fly. Plus the CS Grunt has access to an established educational system for a CS military member, unlike the Vagabond.

[Lenwen]

-The CS grunt should get as many skills as a Vagabond-

Negative ..

1) - To learn new things in the eyes of the Coalition makes one an enemy ..

No, to learn new things that aren't approved by the CS may get you considered seditious or make you labeled an enemy simply learning new things does not.

2) - The Coalition does not like thier basic troops to know more then basic combat survival tactic's and how to use the items they are given ..

That's not supported by the text including the OCC. If that were so the OCC would be extremely restrictive on what's available and it's not.

So no. I do not agree that the Coalition grunt's should get as many skills as a Vegabond ..

I don't see how that follows, the number of skills expected of the CS Grunt to be effective for the military being comparable to the number of skills a Vagabond can learn doesn't seem unrealistic. You simply have a different focus on what's essential and what's available to learn on the fly. Plus the CS Grunt has access to an established educational system for a CS military member, unlike the Vagabond.

Again .. the CS provides all the skills they want the CS grunt to have. And they are more then adequate enough to enable the grunt to perform his mos ..

Adding more skills to something just because would be a house rule.

[taalismn]

I suppose it comes down to how you regard the average CS recuit versus the average Vagabond.
Both are two different paths from the basic fodder of a young person.
The Vagabond is NOT some larval civilian; not any longer; they're a career path as such, IMO a professional hobo if you will, who's learned a different and broad set of skills relevent to living on the wander.
The CS Grunt is the result of military indoctrination, with the minimum effort(per individual) exerted by the government to create the basic rifle-carrying weapons platform...all else is unnecessary accessory; the trooper is fed, clothed, and doctored by the government, so forget about extra skills that would allow that weapons system to feed, cloth, doctor, and entertain itself beyond the bare minimum. If the Grunt survives and proves himself, then he might be accorded the chance to recieve advance training and move up the rank/skill ladder. Unless and until then, the Grunt is regarded as just a warm-blooded automatic rifle mount.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a Grunt with a lot more skills, but depending on the PC's concept, I'd regard it as multi-class, a Vagabond that got drafted or had a change of life-course and went into the military, but in those cases I'd use the multiclass rules with regards to freezing pervious skills(I'd think that post-Rifts Basic Training would be a LOT more damaging and mind-numbing/dumbing than what is currently practiced). And as I wrote before, any literacy skills the person possessed, or other fields of 'forbidden', but non-magical/d-bee knowledge, could be advantages or liabilities to the trooper assimilating into the general grunt/barracks culture, depending on circumstances and the sort of commanding officers the grunt serves under. Grist for a Coalition-from-within campaign if the GM can wing it.

[Dr. Doom III]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

Exactly.
"In many ways" that says right there that they really are not a member of the Coalition elite.

then you should read RUE pg 231 under coalition grunt, Dana.

I don't have it. Enlighten me Tony. (see I can make up names too. )

[Mech-Viper Prime]

In many ways, even the grunt is a member of the Coalition elite, a respected and honored hero in the eyes of the people and government alike.

Exactly.
"In many ways" that says right there that they really are not a member of the Coalition elite.

then you should read RUE pg 231 under coalition grunt, Dana.

I don't have it. Enlighten me Tony. (see I can make up names too. )

well since you're broke i will

RUE pg 231 Even the everyday infantry soldier - the Grunt, the backbone of the Coalition Army - is regarded as one of the Coalition Elite and a hero of the people.

as for the names we both know

[Dr. Doom III]

well since you're broke i will

RUE pg 231 Even the everyday infantry soldier - the Grunt, the backbone of the Coalition Army - is regarded as one of the Coalition Elite and a hero of the people.

as for the names we both know

There we are again.
"Regarded"
Yet another qualifier.

*edit*
Oh I get the name thing now. Dana is Japanese for lord or master.

[Crucible]

Once again, the Vagabond doesn't get a huge number of skills more than a grunt anyways so its a spoiled type question.

Some of you really miss the point of "Fascist dictatorship" it would seem.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

well since you're broke i will

RUE pg 231 Even the everyday infantry soldier - the Grunt, the backbone of the Coalition Army - is regarded as one of the Coalition Elite and a hero of the people.

as for the names we both know

There we are again.
"Regarded"
Yet another qualifier.

*edit*
Oh I get the name thing now. Dana is Japanese for lord or master.

still part of that coalition elite. and nope

[Mech-Viper Prime]

the cs grunt gets 26 skills and at max level 33 skills
a vagabond gets 29 skills and at max level 39 skills

[Crucible]

the cs grunt gets 26 skills and at max level 33 skills
a vagabond gets 29 skills and at max level 39 skills

That's not a huge difference.

[taalismn]

the cs grunt gets 26 skills and at max level 33 skills
a vagabond gets 29 skills and at max level 39 skills

That's not a huge difference.

Those six skills could mean the difference between warm feet in knitted socks or trench foot, being able to drive a stick shift as opposed to an automatic, knowing that that word in Gobbley actually means 'prey' and not 'guest', or knowing how to activate the pilot light on a flamethrower.

[Crucible]

the cs grunt gets 26 skills and at max level 33 skills
a vagabond gets 29 skills and at max level 39 skills

That's not a huge difference.

Those six skills could mean the difference between warm feet in knitted socks or trench foot, being able to drive a stick shift as opposed to an automatic, knowing that that word in Gobbley actually means 'prey' and not 'guest', or knowing how to activate the pilot light on a flamethrower.

A grunt would call a vagabond a scatterbrain. You have to really consider the setting and gaming use of everything. A grunt is a man of arms and a vagabond is a skilled adventurer. A vagabond's strength are his skills while a grunt' strength is numbers and affiliation. It would make sense that if you wanted a character who understood gobbley and how to activate the pilot light on a flamethrower you choose CS Ranger or Special Forces. I may not even ALLOW a grunt to take gobbley to begin with because he won't need to. He will need to take orders. If the leader dies then he kills everything that doesn't look human.

[taalismn]

the cs grunt gets 26 skills and at max level 33 skills
a vagabond gets 29 skills and at max level 39 skills

That's not a huge difference.

Those six skills could mean the difference between warm feet in knitted socks or trench foot, being able to drive a stick shift as opposed to an automatic, knowing that that word in Gobbley actually means 'prey' and not 'guest', or knowing how to activate the pilot light on a flamethrower.

A grunt would call a vagabond a scatterbrain. You have to really consider the setting and gaming use of everything. A grunt is a man of arms and a vagabond is a skilled adventurer. A vagabond's strength are his skills while a grunt' strength is numbers and affiliation. It would make sense that if you wanted a character who understood gobbley and how to activate the pilot light on a flamethrower you choose CS Ranger or Special Forces. I may not even ALLOW a grunt to take gobbley to begin with because he won't need to. He will need to take orders. If the leader dies then he kills everything that doesn't look human.

I know. But I hardly take the whole question seriously. If you're inducted as a Grunt in the military, you're trained as a spear-carrier for the massed line charge and foxhole-ville. If you want more skills and talents, or you shine, you get bumped up to a more specialized class with better training...but expect to pay for the priviilege by being assigned more dangerous work.
Whereas the vagabond rather does as he wants, and will typically beat feet when the situation turns bad.
It's like the difference between the American Colonial Militia and the later American (professional) Army...the militai would break and run most of the time (or retreat to carry out individual actions in defense of their homesteads), while the pro Army stood and fought...some American generals even factored this general knowledge into their plans when fighting(Battle of Cowpens).