how to deal with a powerful party

[Dustin Fireblade]

It might be easier to provide help if you provide the characters OCC's and levels

[dark brandon]

It might be easier to provide help if you provide the characters OCC's and levels

Yeah. I mean unless they are taking on old ones in 1 melee round, there are always stronger, smarter, faster, richer enemies to throw at them.

[runebeo]

Make the game more realistic by bring a War of Attrition feel to your campaign. Ware away at the group's resources whenever possible and after all its a post apocalyptic world resources should be low and limit what resources town & merchants have to provide. How can towns be so well stocked when the wilderness is so full of danger, thieves & raiders have inside men making it expensive & risky for convoys to make their rounds. Have players roll to see if their equipment is damaged and then roll to see if it can be repaired after more battles. look for opportunities for thieves to do their job and remember the more powerful or expensive the item the greater chance it will be the target. Player think their equipment are untouchable well just like life any thing can be gone in a second. Getting caught in a ley line storm, snow storm, hurricane, capsized boat, mudslide, twister, quicksand, car crash, running and even getting knocked down all have a good chance for the players to lose their equipment. Players shouldn't see this as a punishment, it good role playing and an opportunity to both get new equipment and build they story around they character not just around his equipment.

Its hard for players to dominate in Rifts unless the GM has been padding the opposition, little things can make things more difficult for the players like often splitting up the group, each character has his own story to tell, they all can't stay together all the time, the human players can go into CS towns but it not a good idea for most D-Bees to go with them, great time to have both groups get caught up an adventure. I'm sure each player wouldn't mind their own adventure set like their own comic book. When it comes to NPC enemies give them tactics, after all they have survived on Rifts for many years and they may too have some nice unexpected equipment, bionic implant, power or ability. Read up on military tactics for both the players and NPCs, they have added allot depth to our combat encounters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_tactics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_tactics

I remember my group ambushed a group of raiders and were sure it was over before it started only to quickly discover they were Tattoo men & Warrior Women in disguise. Surprises makes the game fun and memorable even if it leads to a character's death. A character's death can be a shake up for the group and a chance to add new blood and for a player to try something different.

[Balabanto]

Do what I do. Create scenarios that have nothing to do with how powerful the characters are. Not every solution is about beating up stuff.

Example: The Heroes find a village, and find that everyone loves the coalition, but not overly. The Coalition protects them from demons, the Coalition protects them from D-Bees. The Coalition is an amazing force for good in the world.

BUT! They don't have a single MDC weapon, piece of armor, or hyped up gear. The PC's challenge is to find a way to get rid of the love of the Coalition without altering minds, beating up locals, or killing anyone.

Example #2: The heroes encounter a ten year old girl, who begs them for help because their village has a bad man in charge. He locks people up without cause, he punishes families for not paying their taxes on time, and the people are mercilessly crushed under his weight.

BUT! He's her father, and she doesn't want anyone to get hurt. Can the PC's convince this man that he doesn't need to be a tyrant? On Rifts Earth, this is a difficult task. And what if daddy is really a Coalition spy, or an evil human from the Federation of Magic? This could even lead to an entire "Robin Hood" style game, where the PC's have to rob from this guy's rich friends and give to the poor.

If your PC's are bastards, this won't work, but if they have even an ounce of compassion in their tarnished souls, these scenarios are very difficult and tricky to navigate. Create situations where there are multiple solutions and they have to decide what the lesser evil is. Challenge their MINDS and not their SHEETS.

[Steeler49er]

Ive been DMing rifts now for about five years and for the last two or three years me nd a group of friends have been playing the same party, the characters have as a result become increasingly more nd more tricky to deal with. They can easily deal with most adversaries nd are becoming more difficult to contain, but I dont want to retire the characters as they have become almost friends, can anyone suggest anyway I can continue playing these characters without too much problems writing adventures?

thanks for your suggestions, trev

LOL You've been DMing fer a year? Well there's yer problem, your DMing when you should be GMing
All kidding a-side,

Spoiler:

DMing:
is the act of going off of a preset script and write up (a common thing to do in games like D&D and Very efficiant. Alotta Roll playing).
Pros:
•The game has a set story and the players often know that the DM is not likely to abuse the arc with ad-lib out of spite, as this would ruin the story he/she/it pre-prepaired.
•Because the story has a begining and an end, DM stories can be Fun and Fast which is great for when game time is limited and the players Know that there is a point to it all.
•It is MUCH easier onn the DM to run such stories because the work is already done for them (Sometimes by the company, other times by themselves just prior to the start of the game). To that end the DM will be allot less stressed out and can be more level headed.

CONS:
♦The game has very little OFF-ROAD capability in that the story arc can demaned allot of stick-to-it-ness which can get so very ridged that players may revolt
♦DM's may have it easy with DMing a preset story (Running players through a pre-made Dungon) and can be easy going and somewhat flexable when players do something new, BUT when a player does Anything which may be To unexpected, or which may take the players out of the Pre-made arc, the DM is often stuck and may freak.
♦Being that the game is Pre-made, sometimes (Often with me) the players may get wise to what is going on, OR they may get smart or lucky in game-Net result is they can End the Pre-fab story arc rather unexpectedly and fast and end up with Nowhere to go!
(I was part of a Marvel FASERIP game in which the DM created 20 alt story arcs on 100sheets of stapled paper for "Just in case" that happened. We're stuck on a starship out in deepspace 2 Hrs into game. We get boarded and all of the players freak out when Ultratech alienscome onto the bridge and order us to surrender. Everyone has SupeR KewL mutie powers and all I can do is Painfully create Metal. They don't know what to do so I took the init and threw a Steel Knfe at the Main alien. Dead RED shot right to the Head. The story revolved around that main baddy!
Game over... The DM was p!sstoff)
♦What now. Should you get through a game in a fast or slow manor, either way players Often want to continue and level with the characters that they've spent and invested so much time and interest into but... The game is over and the DM has nothing new=GAME OVER=Sad Players


GMING
GMing is the act of Roll and Role playing (R&RPGing) and is a Very easy mode of play to get stuck into as, you have a vey limited script and ad-lib alot.

PROS:
•You've got an Open-ended game world that can take you anywhere
•Players are often Very free with creativity and often Awarded for inventiveness.
•The game can go on forever if need be and is Oftne Much more laid back.
•The GM is often flexable enough to take the players flying off the story and you are free to do so.
•You may have 100's or even Thousands of ways to reach your objectives

CONS:
♦Players can and often Do start to abuse the FRACK out of the game systems rules And in time the GM
♦With so Much Ad-Lib, the players often feel like the GM has no clue whats going on from moment to moment... And they're often correct.
♦In time A game may feel like it has gone past it's shelf life, but w/o a script no-one can tell. This can kill the RPGing desire in Many people for quite awhile even After the game ends.
♦Many times Players Like having a script to follow as this gives them much needed sence of direction. No script, no reason for being.
"What's my motivation?",
"look what they did to your cuddly bed time Ardvark!"
"Nooooo, Not my Cuddly Bed Time Ardvark!"
-Alf
♦Players will often go mad with power[/color]



STing
-Is the act of pure acting and Much Roleplaying, Very little if Any Rollplaying... Almost all Roleplaying. It often goes into LARP.
Pros:
•Alot of people are burnt out on the other two.
•You can get into role better and that is what many like and feel is the prem for RPGing... They feel that the other two are failed immitations
•Games are Much more involved and you feel it. 'Hey', your Acting. "I'm an Actor, I Act!"-John Lovitz
•Stories tend to be the focus of the STyle.

CONS:
♦Players tend to become Hams and over actors demanding the game go Pure LARP on you!
♦Ultra Pre-Madonnas! When and if Your players feel like they've lost control of their Character/PC they'll go well past postal and into NUCLEAR level offence at it.
♦You can have a script but player just tend to ignor it for a more social level of play!
♦Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizards-Spock, can get annoying after awhile as a means to play if your into other kinds of gaming.
"I've got a pocket fulla Dice! Let's use these instead!"
♦Your players may feel that all of this Emo-CR@P means that you're taking acts personally against them

I'd say that you need to Change up your game style depending on which one you actually use.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ive been DMing rifts now for about five years and for the last two or three years me nd a group of friends have been playing the same party, the characters have as a result become increasingly more nd more tricky to deal with. They can easily deal with most adversaries nd are becoming more difficult to contain, but I dont want to retire the characters as they have become almost friends, can anyone suggest anyway I can continue playing these characters without too much problems writing adventures?

thanks for your suggestions, trev

LOL You've been DMing fer a year? Well there's yer problem, your DMing when you should be GMing
All kidding a-side,

Spoiler:

DMing:
is the act of going off of a preset script and write up (a common thing to do in games like D&D and Very efficiant. Alotta Roll playing).
Pros:
•The game has a set story and the players often know that the DM is not likely to abuse the arc with ad-lib out of spite, as this would ruin the story he/she/it pre-prepaired.
•Because the story has a begining and an end, DM stories can be Fun and Fast which is great for when game time is limited and the players Know that there is a point to it all.
•It is MUCH easier onn the DM to run such stories because the work is already done for them (Sometimes by the company, other times by themselves just prior to the start of the game). To that end the DM will be allot less stressed out and can be more level headed.

CONS:
♦The game has very little OFF-ROAD capability in that the story arc can demaned allot of stick-to-it-ness which can get so very ridged that players may revolt
♦DM's may have it easy with DMing a preset story (Running players through a pre-made Dungon) and can be easy going and somewhat flexable when players do something new, BUT when a player does Anything which may be To unexpected, or which may take the players out of the Pre-made arc, the DM is often stuck and may freak.
♦Being that the game is Pre-made, sometimes (Often with me) the players may get wise to what is going on, OR they may get smart or lucky in game-Net result is they can End the Pre-fab story arc rather unexpectedly and fast and end up with Nowhere to go!
(I was part of a Marvel FASERIP game in which the DM created 20 alt story arcs on 100sheets of stapled paper for "Just in case" that happened. We're stuck on a starship out in deepspace 2 Hrs into game. We get boarded and all of the players freak out when Ultratech alienscome onto the bridge and order us to surrender. Everyone has SupeR KewL mutie powers and all I can do is Painfully create Metal. They don't know what to do so I took the init and threw a Steel Knfe at the Main alien. Dead RED shot right to the Head. The story revolved around that main baddy!
Game over... The DM was p!sstoff)
♦What now. Should you get through a game in a fast or slow manor, either way players Often want to continue and level with the characters that they've spent and invested so much time and interest into but... The game is over and the DM has nothing new=GAME OVER=Sad Players


GMING
GMing is the act of Roll and Role playing (R&RPGing) and is a Very easy mode of play to get stuck into as, you have a vey limited script and ad-lib alot.

PROS:
•You've got an Open-ended game world that can take you anywhere
•Players are often Very free with creativity and often Awarded for inventiveness.
•The game can go on forever if need be and is Oftne Much more laid back.
•The GM is often flexable enough to take the players flying off the story and you are free to do so.
•You may have 100's or even Thousands of ways to reach your objectives

CONS:
♦Players can and often Do start to abuse the FRACK out of the game systems rules And in time the GM
♦With so Much Ad-Lib, the players often feel like the GM has no clue whats going on from moment to moment... And they're often correct.
♦In time A game may feel like it has gone past it's shelf life, but w/o a script no-one can tell. This can kill the RPGing desire in Many people for quite awhile even After the game ends.
♦Many times Players Like having a script to follow as this gives them much needed sence of direction. No script, no reason for being.
"What's my motivation?",
"look what they did to your cuddly bed time Ardvark!"
"Nooooo, Not my Cuddly Bed Time Ardvark!"
-Alf
♦Players will often go mad with power[/color]



STing
-Is the act of pure acting and Much Roleplaying, Very little if Any Rollplaying... Almost all Roleplaying. It often goes into LARP.
Pros:
•Alot of people are burnt out on the other two.
•You can get into role better and that is what many like and feel is the prem for RPGing... They feel that the other two are failed immitations
•Games are Much more involved and you feel it. 'Hey', your Acting. "I'm an Actor, I Act!"-John Lovitz
•Stories tend to be the focus of the STyle.

CONS:
♦Players tend to become Hams and over actors demanding the game go Pure LARP on you!
♦Ultra Pre-Madonnas! When and if Your players feel like they've lost control of their Character/PC they'll go well past postal and into NUCLEAR level offence at it.
♦You can have a script but player just tend to ignor it for a more social level of play!
♦Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizards-Spock, can get annoying after awhile as a means to play if your into other kinds of gaming.
"I've got a pocket fulla Dice! Let's use these instead!"
♦Your players may feel that all of this Emo-CR@P means that you're taking acts personally against them

I'd say that you need to Change up your game style depending on which one you actually use.

[Shark_Force]

Ive been DMing rifts now for about five years and for the last two or three years me nd a group of friends have been playing the same party, the characters have as a result become increasingly more nd more tricky to deal with. They can easily deal with most adversaries nd are becoming more difficult to contain, but I dont want to retire the characters as they have become almost friends, can anyone suggest anyway I can continue playing these characters without too much problems writing adventures?

thanks for your suggestions, trev

LOL You've been DMing fer a year? Well there's yer problem, your DMing when you should be GMing
All kidding a-side,

Spoiler:

DMing:
is the act of going off of a preset script and write up (a common thing to do in games like D&D and Very efficiant. Alotta Roll playing).
Pros:
•The game has a set story and the players often know that the DM is not likely to abuse the arc with ad-lib out of spite, as this would ruin the story he/she/it pre-prepaired.
•Because the story has a begining and an end, DM stories can be Fun and Fast which is great for when game time is limited and the players Know that there is a point to it all.
•It is MUCH easier onn the DM to run such stories because the work is already done for them (Sometimes by the company, other times by themselves just prior to the start of the game). To that end the DM will be allot less stressed out and can be more level headed.

CONS:
♦The game has very little OFF-ROAD capability in that the story arc can demaned allot of stick-to-it-ness which can get so very ridged that players may revolt
♦DM's may have it easy with DMing a preset story (Running players through a pre-made Dungon) and can be easy going and somewhat flexable when players do something new, BUT when a player does Anything which may be To unexpected, or which may take the players out of the Pre-made arc, the DM is often stuck and may freak.
♦Being that the game is Pre-made, sometimes (Often with me) the players may get wise to what is going on, OR they may get smart or lucky in game-Net result is they can End the Pre-fab story arc rather unexpectedly and fast and end up with Nowhere to go!
(I was part of a Marvel FASERIP game in which the DM created 20 alt story arcs on 100sheets of stapled paper for "Just in case" that happened. We're stuck on a starship out in deepspace 2 Hrs into game. We get boarded and all of the players freak out when Ultratech alienscome onto the bridge and order us to surrender. Everyone has SupeR KewL mutie powers and all I can do is Painfully create Metal. They don't know what to do so I took the init and threw a Steel Knfe at the Main alien. Dead RED shot right to the Head. The story revolved around that main baddy!
Game over... The DM was p!sstoff)
♦What now. Should you get through a game in a fast or slow manor, either way players Often want to continue and level with the characters that they've spent and invested so much time and interest into but... The game is over and the DM has nothing new=GAME OVER=Sad Players


GMING
GMing is the act of Roll and Role playing (R&RPGing) and is a Very easy mode of play to get stuck into as, you have a vey limited script and ad-lib alot.

PROS:
•You've got an Open-ended game world that can take you anywhere
•Players are often Very free with creativity and often Awarded for inventiveness.
•The game can go on forever if need be and is Oftne Much more laid back.
•The GM is often flexable enough to take the players flying off the story and you are free to do so.
•You may have 100's or even Thousands of ways to reach your objectives

CONS:
♦Players can and often Do start to abuse the FRACK out of the game systems rules And in time the GM
♦With so Much Ad-Lib, the players often feel like the GM has no clue whats going on from moment to moment... And they're often correct.
♦In time A game may feel like it has gone past it's shelf life, but w/o a script no-one can tell. This can kill the RPGing desire in Many people for quite awhile even After the game ends.
♦Many times Players Like having a script to follow as this gives them much needed sence of direction. No script, no reason for being.
"What's my motivation?",
"look what they did to your cuddly bed time Ardvark!"
"Nooooo, Not my Cuddly Bed Time Ardvark!"
-Alf
♦Players will often go mad with power[/color]



STing
-Is the act of pure acting and Much Roleplaying, Very little if Any Rollplaying... Almost all Roleplaying. It often goes into LARP.
Pros:
•Alot of people are burnt out on the other two.
•You can get into role better and that is what many like and feel is the prem for RPGing... They feel that the other two are failed immitations
•Games are Much more involved and you feel it. 'Hey', your Acting. "I'm an Actor, I Act!"-John Lovitz
•Stories tend to be the focus of the STyle.

CONS:
♦Players tend to become Hams and over actors demanding the game go Pure LARP on you!
♦Ultra Pre-Madonnas! When and if Your players feel like they've lost control of their Character/PC they'll go well past postal and into NUCLEAR level offence at it.
♦You can have a script but player just tend to ignor it for a more social level of play!
♦Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizards-Spock, can get annoying after awhile as a means to play if your into other kinds of gaming.
"I've got a pocket fulla Dice! Let's use these instead!"
♦Your players may feel that all of this Emo-CR@P means that you're taking acts personally against them

I'd say that you need to Change up your game style depending on which one you actually use.

that just sounds silly. to state that a "GM" can't have a plan for the game or that a "DM" can't ad-lib or that either can't focus on playing the role or that a "storyteller" can't use dice is just not true. those words are all just different ways of describing someone who plays the part of "everyone and everything that isn't a PC or directly controlled by them". certainly, there exist people with these sorts of GMing styles (or whatever you want to call them) but it's far more common to see mixtures of these playing styles in any given GM.

personally, i'm of a mind that the best GMing style is to use a combination of all 3: have a plan for where you're going, do some preparation for how to get there, but don't plot a course. figure out what the NPCs plan, ideally have stats ready for anything that might come up (or at least a rough outline of stats), encourage the players to really get into their characters by placing an emphasis on it, and using that as a basis for the choices of everyone in the game world, but still using the rules to adjudicate the success of actions. granted, not all GMs can do all of this well (and i'll even allow that relatively few do all of it well; starting GMs especially tend not to have a good handle on everything, but that's to be expected), and the precise combination of what is 'best' for any given gaming group will change, but it really is a spectrum.

[Vrykolas2k]

Just kill them.
That's the Cyberpunk way.
(Ya, I'm old school.)

[sHaka]

Send them to Hades then Dyval. If they all come back, they might need retiring.

[Preacher]

Tougher enemies and adversaries is a very good tactic.

I run a very powerful game that most here would not like based on the norm of liking medium to low powered games.

In our game we have a 7th level Godling Named Lars with Air Elemental magic. In combat he nearly died a few sessions ago because he met a more powerful foe.

We have a 9th Demigod named Dogimed with Invocations who had to flee or die two sessions ago.

Our Speedster Superhuman with Sonic Speed and Gravity Manipulation who also had great armor. He nearly bit the bullet by a squad of snipers out of his range while he was in Melee combat. He would have died if that Dang Godling didn't Breath of Life him followed by some healing magic from the Demigod.

My Daughters Character Lula who is a Brick with Massive MDC, Supernatural P.S. and Growth Power now can be made catatonic by a simple Carpet of Adhesion which is sticky. She died a couple of years ago was brought back and had to roll on the Insanity tables, rolled Neurosis and then rolled 23% which is Fear of anything Sticky.

Our Mutant who's name is Grey (which is his skin color as well) has a bunch of minors which make him very fast and great reflexes which can outdo most Juicers died in the same battle that Lula did and now has a fear of Juicers by rolling a 33% on the Phobia tables.

Yet another Super on the team is also a Brick by the handle of Steel Poofer who has Alter to Metal and can teleport. He was also plinked to near death last combat by already mentioned Snipers as well. I also had another teleporter dogging him the whole time.

A fairly easy counter to a lot of powerful PC's is magic users 3 to 5 backed by a squad of Power Armor of decent type. I call it the Missiles and Magic tactic. Use the magic as a hindrance or counter to a PC Mage and have Power Armors blasting away with Missiles and Energy Rifles from range.

[Kagashi]

You dont always have to throw bigger and badder bad guys their direction.

A lot of times, characters who are uber powerful end up spending all their skills on combat oriented selections. They end up neglecting things like...swimming...in favor for +2 PS and +10 SDC when they take body building. Put their butts in the water and say (be sure to smile) "Roll on your swimming skill". When they cant...they drown. Throw in a little flair and describe what happens to their rippling abs when they die, gasping for air and choking on water.

Same thing for getting lost in a maze (land navigation) or have them be around something like the flu and not have the appropriate skills to combat it (MD or Holistic Medicine). And man, it must suck when they are in the wilderness and have no food and water. Too bad these guys dont have the right skills to occupy their time as the water supply runs out and they dont have the skills to catch the local wildlife.

[Subjugator]

Move them to an SDC only world where technology doesn't work for a while.

That'll knock them through a loop.

/Sub

[Balabanto]

My "Ha-Ha-Ha" is a special forces guy with a laser painter and a Forager Battlebot pilot buddy. If the PC's get full of themselves, remember that in RUE, armor piercing MRMs, which are standard on the Forager Battlebot, do 3d6x10 AP MD. On average, this is 420 MD per volley, for a whopping 1680 MD when the smoke clears. Remember, these aren't energy missiles, so even the mighty Mystic Knight is not immune, and on an 18-19, that's 840. On a 20, that's 1260. If you want to be a jerk, carpet them to the spot so they can't take cover. But you don't need to.

[Subjugator]

You can:

1. Give them a puzzle that requires thought and not brute force to fix.
2. Strip them of powers - through an SDC world, an angry deity, a thief, or anything else that you want.
3. Create something that requires force to kill, but ONLY after they figure out what force is used to kill it.
4. Give them something to fear - like imprisonment with the great old ones or a complete reversion of Thoth to Xy, who would then release his buddies.
5. Make it so that what's his face from Pantheons is unable to soothe the minds of the great old ones, and they need to find someone powerful enough to take his place.
6. Have one or more of them gene spliced.
7. Pit them against each other.
8. Thraxus. If they can kill him, you made a mistake as a GM.
9. An angry Splugorth could be interesting. I don't care how tough you are, a few billion Kydians can hurt you.

/Sub

[drewkitty ~..~]

Have them read Vogon poetry, if they misbehave.

[DhAkael]

Have them read Vorgon poetry, if they misbehave.

Okay, you win the internet for the day for that one.
Another way to deal with high-level / uber-parties. Mix it up. Keep 'em guessing.
Throwing monster of the day or increasingly larger levels of fire-power MAY keep the party in line, but it gets dull for GM and PC's very quickly.

However, if say the screaming damsel-in-this-dress is actually screaming because she's "otherwise occupied" *nudge nudge wink wink say no more* or heck, frustarted at her alchemist for overcharging her, don't let on to the players this is what's happening; let them think the screams they are hearing are of a body & soul in mortal peril. The "heroes" break down the door and find one of the above situations going on.
Damsel (or dude, no need to be sexist here) is peeved, the door is runied, and the party has a lotta 'splainin' to do!

Inverse to this; Innocent child has lost their mommy. Won't you please find their mommy? When they least expect it; dragon tooth mine in their coffee mug (roll detect concelament at -20%) otherwise -boom-.
P.S.; the kid isn't a demon or even evil in the way a see aura would detect. They just have no morals and like to make stuff blow up...partucularly unsuspecting yutzes who are lawful stoopid
No long drawn out combats, no uber-dark-gawd-of-alpalca-lips to toss onto the pile of "party wins against impossible odds...again".
Just random unexpected chaos and laughter (or screams).

[Killer Cyborg]

Have them read Vorgon poetry, if they misbehave.

Okay, you win the internet for the day for that one.

Well, he would have if he hadn't misspelled it.

[DhAkael]

Have them read Vorgon poetry, if they misbehave.

Okay, you win the internet for the day for that one.

Well, he would have if he hadn't misspelled it.

DOH!
Missed that (Internet point recinded)

[DhAkael]

Move them to an SDC only world where technology doesn't work for a while.

That'll knock them through a loop.

/Sub

Done that a few times
the Asgardian Elf Warrior-maiden of doom was most shocked when a 9mm fired from a cops' side-arm made her bleed.
"But... bullets don't hurt?" -thud-

[Killer Cyborg]

Move them to an SDC only world where technology doesn't work for a while.

That'll knock them through a loop.

/Sub

Done that a few times
the Asgardian Elf Warrior-maiden of doom was most shocked when a 9mm fired from a cops' side-arm made her bleed.
"But... bullets don't hurt?" -thud-

Eh.
Pretty early on I took the party to a world where MDC was the base, and Ultra-Damage (100 MD per UD point) was the norm for military and police.

[kevarin]

i would look in to the voracious absorber if you have rifter 44
those guys can give a team a run for there money if played right

im currently using one in a hu2 setting and its been a very hard
enemy that can be scaled to meet the lvl and power of the group
fighting it

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

ask the players what they are looking for in the game and go from there. If they are having fun rolling through encounters and smashing things and you don't mind it why change? If they want something more intriguing or focused more on roleplaying then alter the game to suit. No need to throw something at them that they may not enjoy or even consider fun. Remember Roleplaying is a community activity and your best chance for fun is when all parties are interested in the game.

[Balabanto]

1 Sunaj Assassin per PC of level 7 or Higher=Dead Party

TW Armor that casts Carpet of Adhesion, and the Weather Control Tattoo. Carpet of Adhesion+Single Action Wind Rush=Doomed. Then you can battle fury blade these guys to death. It's not like they don't have the PPE, and the Invulnerability tattoo will give them around 650 MD worth of armor per creature, AND they can renew it when it goes down as long as they have enough PPE left. Plus, the Battle Fury in combination with HTH assassin and the extra 100 MD of force field is a winner. And remember, thanks to the Heart with Wings Tattoo, they can all fly. Sure, the PC's get a bunch of Battle Fury Blades if they win, but they WON'T.

Remember, 7th level or higher Sunaj don't need to touch their tattoos to use them. For even bigger jerkiness, you could use Deathbringer Swords, which makes the Sunaj immune to Energy Attacks. They'll attack less often, and do less damage, but being immune to energy attacks is AWESOME.

[Balabanto]

Just attack them on a ley line. The PPE renewal will be enough over the course of the rounds to renew the Invulnerability while Ley Line Phasing carries them elsewhere.

[Mack]

Ninja Floopers.

[Noon]

Your trying to contain them?

Perhaps they should think about what their characters want to do, and if they are so darn powerful, just get it done, then retire since it's done.

Does the game have to go on forever?

[DhAkael]

-reposting since no one seemed to have payed attention-
Another way to deal with high-level / uber-parties. Mix it up. Keep 'em guessing.
Throwing monster of the day or increasingly larger levels of fire-power MAY keep the party in line, but it gets dull for GM and PC's very quickly.

However, if say the screaming damsel-in-this-dress is actually screaming because she's "otherwise occupied" *nudge nudge wink wink say no more* or heck, frustarted at her alchemist for overcharging her, don't let on to the players this is what's happening; let them think the screams they are hearing are of a body & soul in mortal peril. The "heroes" break down the door and find one of the above situations going on.
Damsel (or dude, no need to be sexist here) is peeved, the door is runied, and the party has a lotta 'splainin' to do!

Inverse to this; Innocent child has lost their mommy. Won't you please find their mommy? When they least expect it; dragon tooth mine in their coffee mug (roll detect concelament at -20%) otherwise -boom-.
P.S.; the kid isn't a demon or even evil in the way a see aura would detect. They just have no morals and like to make stuff blow up...partucularly unsuspecting yutzes who are lawful stoopid
No long drawn out combats, no uber-dark-gawd-of-alpalca-lips to toss onto the pile of "party wins against impossible odds...again".
Just random unexpected chaos and laughter (or screams).

[Arnie100]

Put a very large bounty on their heads and have every bounty hunter in the region looking for them!

[Killer Cyborg]

Let them do whatever they want, and win every time.

Eventually, they'll grow bored and complain about it.

At which point, you say:
"Heaven? What ever made you think that this was heaven?
This IS the other place!"

Then you can laugh, evilly.

[Mack]

Let them do whatever they want, and win every time.

Eventually, they'll grow bored and complain about it.

At which point, you say:
"Heaven? What ever made you think that this was heaven?
This IS the other place!"

Then you can laugh, evilly.

+2 Geek Points for the Twilght Zone reference.

[Astral_Explorer]

Possesing Entity

Bonus to save vs magic doesnt count
Bonus to save vs psionics only works against the psionic mentaly posses others.

Possesing entities are entirely nasty and should add a scary element to your game where the players question their safety.

I don't propose this as a means to kill the group as some others have allready produced many ideas for that. I am presenting this as a way to take the game into a new direction. Since the possesed one may change their fortunes and cause mayhem and the others might wonder why the people they helped etc suddenly are afriad of them.

At any rate I wish you luck, sounds like you have a good game and like people are having a lot of fun to play for so long they are high level.

[Ale Golem]

Remember Roleplaying is a community activity and your best chance for fun is when all parties are interested in the game.

Try telling that to one of our GMs, his favorite sentance is "Your character wouldn't do that". Usually in response to something we try and do that may help in avoiding danger or any type of encounter he may have thought up. I've since stopped playing under that GM, at least in most games. He's ok in very small doses if one knows what type of game to expect and doesn't mind a bit of railroading every few sessions.

In response to the OP, what is powerful in RIFTS? It seems that this, if no other, is the one game where power level means the least. In a game where a Preacher O.C.C. and a Godling can adventure side by side and not cramp each others style it should be a simple task to challenge a party of any level. The real balancing act comes in when it's time to challenge one or two members of much greater power than others without either blowing up or making any "weaker" characters feel utterly useless depending on the situation.

[Steeler49er]

Ive been DMing rifts now for about five years and for the last two or three years me nd a group of friends have been playing the same party, the characters have as a result become increasingly more nd more tricky to deal with. They can easily deal with most adversaries nd are becoming more difficult to contain, but I dont want to retire the characters as they have become almost friends, can anyone suggest anyway I can continue playing these characters without too much problems writing adventures?

thanks for your suggestions, trev

LOL You've been DMing fer a year? Well there's yer problem, your DMing when you should be GMing
All kidding a-side,

Spoiler:

DMing:
is the act of going off of a preset script and write up (a common thing to do in games like D&D and Very efficiant. Alotta Roll playing).
Pros:
•The game has a set story and the players often know that the DM is not likely to abuse the arc with ad-lib out of spite, as this would ruin the story he/she/it pre-prepaired.
•Because the story has a begining and an end, DM stories can be Fun and Fast which is great for when game time is limited and the players Know that there is a point to it all.
•It is MUCH easier onn the DM to run such stories because the work is already done for them (Sometimes by the company, other times by themselves just prior to the start of the game). To that end the DM will be allot less stressed out and can be more level headed.

CONS:
♦The game has very little OFF-ROAD capability in that the story arc can demaned allot of stick-to-it-ness which can get so very ridged that players may revolt
♦DM's may have it easy with DMing a preset story (Running players through a pre-made Dungon) and can be easy going and somewhat flexable when players do something new, BUT when a player does Anything which may be To unexpected, or which may take the players out of the Pre-made arc, the DM is often stuck and may freak.
♦Being that the game is Pre-made, sometimes (Often with me) the players may get wise to what is going on, OR they may get smart or lucky in game-Net result is they can End the Pre-fab story arc rather unexpectedly and fast and end up with Nowhere to go!
(I was part of a Marvel FASERIP game in which the DM created 20 alt story arcs on 100sheets of stapled paper for "Just in case" that happened. We're stuck on a starship out in deepspace 2 Hrs into game. We get boarded and all of the players freak out when Ultratech alienscome onto the bridge and order us to surrender. Everyone has SupeR KewL mutie powers and all I can do is Painfully create Metal. They don't know what to do so I took the init and threw a Steel Knfe at the Main alien. Dead RED shot right to the Head. The story revolved around that main baddy!
Game over... The DM was p!sstoff)
♦What now. Should you get through a game in a fast or slow manor, either way players Often want to continue and level with the characters that they've spent and invested so much time and interest into but... The game is over and the DM has nothing new=GAME OVER=Sad Players


GMING
GMing is the act of Roll and Role playing (R&RPGing) and is a Very easy mode of play to get stuck into as, you have a vey limited script and ad-lib alot.

PROS:
•You've got an Open-ended game world that can take you anywhere
•Players are often Very free with creativity and often Awarded for inventiveness.
•The game can go on forever if need be and is Oftne Much more laid back.
•The GM is often flexable enough to take the players flying off the story and you are free to do so.
•You may have 100's or even Thousands of ways to reach your objectives

CONS:
♦Players can and often Do start to abuse the FRACK out of the game systems rules And in time the GM
♦With so Much Ad-Lib, the players often feel like the GM has no clue whats going on from moment to moment... And they're often correct.
♦In time A game may feel like it has gone past it's shelf life, but w/o a script no-one can tell. This can kill the RPGing desire in Many people for quite awhile even After the game ends.
♦Many times Players Like having a script to follow as this gives them much needed sence of direction. No script, no reason for being.
"What's my motivation?",
"look what they did to your cuddly bed time Ardvark!"
"Nooooo, Not my Cuddly Bed Time Ardvark!"
-Alf
♦Players will often go mad with power[/color]



STing
-Is the act of pure acting and Much Roleplaying, Very little if Any Rollplaying... Almost all Roleplaying. It often goes into LARP.
Pros:
•Alot of people are burnt out on the other two.
•You can get into role better and that is what many like and feel is the prem for RPGing... They feel that the other two are failed immitations
•Games are Much more involved and you feel it. 'Hey', your Acting. "I'm an Actor, I Act!"-John Lovitz
•Stories tend to be the focus of the STyle.

CONS:
♦Players tend to become Hams and over actors demanding the game go Pure LARP on you!
♦Ultra Pre-Madonnas! When and if Your players feel like they've lost control of their Character/PC they'll go well past postal and into NUCLEAR level offence at it.
♦You can have a script but player just tend to ignor it for a more social level of play!
♦Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizards-Spock, can get annoying after awhile as a means to play if your into other kinds of gaming.
"I've got a pocket fulla Dice! Let's use these instead!"
♦Your players may feel that all of this Emo-CR@P means that you're taking acts personally against them

I'd say that you need to Change up your game style depending on which one you actually use.

that just sounds silly. to state that a "GM" can't have a plan for the game or that a "DM" can't ad-lib or that either can't focus on playing the role or that a "storyteller" can't use dice is just not true.

Well then, It sure is a good thing that I didn't say that then
I never said they "Can't Do this" or "Can't Do that". The terms I gave are lose terms based on there Originating standards. Sure a GM have a plan for the game as they almost always do... I never infered that they didn't. Nor did I say that a DM can't ad-lib (In fact I said they can, just not as much as a GM would). Additionally I never said ST never used dice (where ever did you get that from?), WW ST's used D10s All the time for combat, social & Mental ressolution. What I was saying was that if a GM ran a majority of a game off of a map and preset boxed set cards for determaning LUT/Monster encounters & Story, one could choose to say he is DMing and not so much GMing a game.

These are preferances names used simply for quick referance sake and ALL three get thrown around ad nausm and are in No way set termanologies. These are just Root descriptions which have a Few small noticable differances.


What I said should hardly be worth a rolling of the eyes or be considered an attempt to pigion hole anyone, let alone being construed as 'fighting words'

[Killer Cyborg]

Ive been DMing rifts now for about five years and for the last two or three years me nd a group of friends have been playing the same party, the characters have as a result become increasingly more nd more tricky to deal with. They can easily deal with most adversaries nd are becoming more difficult to contain, but I dont want to retire the characters as they have become almost friends, can anyone suggest anyway I can continue playing these characters without too much problems writing adventures?

thanks for your suggestions, trev

LOL You've been DMing fer a year? Well there's yer problem, your DMing when you should be GMing
All kidding a-side,

Spoiler:

DMing:
is the act of going off of a preset script and write up (a common thing to do in games like D&D and Very efficiant. Alotta Roll playing).
Pros:
•The game has a set story and the players often know that the DM is not likely to abuse the arc with ad-lib out of spite, as this would ruin the story he/she/it pre-prepaired.
•Because the story has a begining and an end, DM stories can be Fun and Fast which is great for when game time is limited and the players Know that there is a point to it all.
•It is MUCH easier onn the DM to run such stories because the work is already done for them (Sometimes by the company, other times by themselves just prior to the start of the game). To that end the DM will be allot less stressed out and can be more level headed.

CONS:
♦The game has very little OFF-ROAD capability in that the story arc can demaned allot of stick-to-it-ness which can get so very ridged that players may revolt
♦DM's may have it easy with DMing a preset story (Running players through a pre-made Dungon) and can be easy going and somewhat flexable when players do something new, BUT when a player does Anything which may be To unexpected, or which may take the players out of the Pre-made arc, the DM is often stuck and may freak.
♦Being that the game is Pre-made, sometimes (Often with me) the players may get wise to what is going on, OR they may get smart or lucky in game-Net result is they can End the Pre-fab story arc rather unexpectedly and fast and end up with Nowhere to go!
(I was part of a Marvel FASERIP game in which the DM created 20 alt story arcs on 100sheets of stapled paper for "Just in case" that happened. We're stuck on a starship out in deepspace 2 Hrs into game. We get boarded and all of the players freak out when Ultratech alienscome onto the bridge and order us to surrender. Everyone has SupeR KewL mutie powers and all I can do is Painfully create Metal. They don't know what to do so I took the init and threw a Steel Knfe at the Main alien. Dead RED shot right to the Head. The story revolved around that main baddy!
Game over... The DM was p!sstoff)
♦What now. Should you get through a game in a fast or slow manor, either way players Often want to continue and level with the characters that they've spent and invested so much time and interest into but... The game is over and the DM has nothing new=GAME OVER=Sad Players


GMING
GMing is the act of Roll and Role playing (R&RPGing) and is a Very easy mode of play to get stuck into as, you have a vey limited script and ad-lib alot.

PROS:
•You've got an Open-ended game world that can take you anywhere
•Players are often Very free with creativity and often Awarded for inventiveness.
•The game can go on forever if need be and is Oftne Much more laid back.
•The GM is often flexable enough to take the players flying off the story and you are free to do so.
•You may have 100's or even Thousands of ways to reach your objectives

CONS:
♦Players can and often Do start to abuse the FRACK out of the game systems rules And in time the GM
♦With so Much Ad-Lib, the players often feel like the GM has no clue whats going on from moment to moment... And they're often correct.
♦In time A game may feel like it has gone past it's shelf life, but w/o a script no-one can tell. This can kill the RPGing desire in Many people for quite awhile even After the game ends.
♦Many times Players Like having a script to follow as this gives them much needed sence of direction. No script, no reason for being.
"What's my motivation?",
"look what they did to your cuddly bed time Ardvark!"
"Nooooo, Not my Cuddly Bed Time Ardvark!"
-Alf
♦Players will often go mad with power[/color]



STing
-Is the act of pure acting and Much Roleplaying, Very little if Any Rollplaying... Almost all Roleplaying. It often goes into LARP.
Pros:
•Alot of people are burnt out on the other two.
•You can get into role better and that is what many like and feel is the prem for RPGing... They feel that the other two are failed immitations
•Games are Much more involved and you feel it. 'Hey', your Acting. "I'm an Actor, I Act!"-John Lovitz
•Stories tend to be the focus of the STyle.

CONS:
♦Players tend to become Hams and over actors demanding the game go Pure LARP on you!
♦Ultra Pre-Madonnas! When and if Your players feel like they've lost control of their Character/PC they'll go well past postal and into NUCLEAR level offence at it.
♦You can have a script but player just tend to ignor it for a more social level of play!
♦Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizards-Spock, can get annoying after awhile as a means to play if your into other kinds of gaming.
"I've got a pocket fulla Dice! Let's use these instead!"
♦Your players may feel that all of this Emo-CR@P means that you're taking acts personally against them

I'd say that you need to Change up your game style depending on which one you actually use.

that just sounds silly. to state that a "GM" can't have a plan for the game or that a "DM" can't ad-lib or that either can't focus on playing the role or that a "storyteller" can't use dice is just not true.

Well then, It sure is a good thing that I didn't say that then
I never said they "Can't Do this" or "Can't Do that". The terms I gave are lose terms based on there Originating standards. Sure a GM have a plan for the game as they almost always do... I never infered that they didn't. Nor did I say that a DM can't ad-lib (In fact I said they can, just not as much as a GM would). Additionally I never said ST never used dice (where ever did you get that from?), WW ST's used D10s All the time for combat, social & Mental ressolution. What I was saying was that if a GM ran a majority of a game off of a map and preset boxed set cards for determaning LUT/Monster encounters & Story, one could choose to say he is DMing and not so much GMing a game.

These are preferances names used simply for quick referance sake and ALL three get thrown around ad nausm and are in No way set termanologies. These are just Root descriptions which have a Few small noticable differances.


What I said should hardly be worth a rolling of the eyes or be considered an attempt to pigion hole anyone, let alone being construed as 'fighting words'

DM stands for Dungeon Master, which is what the Game Master was called in D&D.
That's the only significance.
No more poignant than any of the other titles for the same position that various game companies put out.
Storyteller.
AI.
Referee.
Arbiter.
Whatever.

Next you'll be espousing some huge philosophical difference between "Hit Points" and "Health Points"...

[Crucible]

No such thing as too powerful in Palladium.

I've seen 1st level characters wipe the floor with 10th-15th...

[Cybermancer]

Good day.

I have a few stories that relate to this.

First occurs in the Robotech universe way back in the day when the Invid weren't satisfied with invading the world once, they had to come back for seconds.

The original PC's had gotten 'too powerful' by many other GM's standards. They had gotten to the point where they were in command of a small fleet of one Ikazuchi and six Garfish. This is when I implemented a two tier game. Their original characters determined policy and then they had a second group of characters that fought in the trenches trying to implement that policy. It took the game to a new and interesting level. It was a bit complicated but well worth it in my opinion.

Now, it happened that I created these new "Shadow Invid" that I wanted to throw at the PC's as a new danger that the REF had to deal with. So while the fleet was on patrol I described them spotting four 'Clam' ships approaching. They had just gotten into visual range without appearing on sensors. Then they opened up to disgorge their mecha. Each ship carrying 160 of these new, never before discovered Invid mecha the size of the Pincer command units but with an extra plasma cannon on top and what appeared to be plasma cannon sheilds on both arms and missile launchers build into the legs much like the Alpha's.

This encounter was designed to bloody the characters noses but was definitely survivable and even winnable.

What do the players do?

They bravely ran away.

Not a shot fired.

The next two stories are examples of why, as a player if you ever realize that your character is all that and a sandwich, then you should do absolutely everything in your power to conceal that fact!

The first story takes place in the Great Northern Wilderness of the Palladium world. We are a large group of experienced, well kitted out players. Lowest level is 10th and highest is 14th. We free some Wolfen slaves and wind up fighting wave after wave of demons and the Summoner who commanded them. After we killed the summoner, Mormo, lord of the ghouls shows up to claim his eternal soul.

Like sensable players, we're backing away and letting him do his thing. Except the most powerful of us. A 14th level wizard, 6th level diabolist and 3rd level summoner. With a racial hatred for ghouls. Playing his character as he felt was correctly, he started what he thought to be a solo suicide charge with the yell of "Die monster!"

We all sighed, agreed that our characters had all had a good, long run and what better way to go out than in a mad blaze of glory?

When the dust cleared, we were still standing (as a group) and Mormo had been slain (and thus returned to hades).

The GM sighed with resignation. "Well that's it then. You guys know how powerful you really are so there's not much point in continuing the game." After a great deal of discussion we agreed to keep going to see where things went. Quite cleverly the GM started harassing us with assassins and bounty hunters from Mormo's cults. We finally get sick of it enough to decide that it is actually a good idea to go confront Mormo on his home ground to put a permanent end to this nonsense. To do this we have gone through the Land of the Damned where we took permanent casualties. Where the game last left off, we had finally made it to Hades where we're finding things are getting much, much harder for us. Unforutnately the game is on hold until next summer.

The other story comes from a 3.5 D&D game where I play a humble fighter. Humble, that is until the entire party found itself in the court of a minotaur king, surrounded by an obscene amount of guards and the entire minotaur treasury clearly visible in our cart. In a last ditch effort to save the party I have my fighter yell out, "I challenge you, O mighty Minotaur King to one on one combat for rulership of the tribe!"

On paper it looked like the minotaur king had every advantage.

He died in a round and a half without inflicting any damage to my character.

After that, I found a lot of monsters geared to taking out my fighter. And one finally managed to not only kill the fighter but put the whole party on the run.

That's okay though. That fighter was good at what he does. The character I replaced him with is /optimized/ at what he does. I just have to do better at hiding it from the DM.

[everloss]

i ran a continuous rifts campaign for about 3 years, once a week. (i was young and me and my players all worked at the same bar, getting off at the same hours)

anyway, after a while the characters became ridiculously powerful. so we just started having fun with them. dropped the seriousness of the campaign and went balls to the wall with crazy magic, weapons, bionics, and the like.

i think we ended up with a 11th level Rahu-Man Psi-nullifier who was a christian zealot (and addicted to weed), a 10th level Demonic Tourist from one of the Rifters (i think it was the 3 armed quasi-demon from Mindwerks) with an unhealthy obsession with Erin Tarn and a bionic.. ah, you know what, and a high level human cyborg shaped like a minotaur who was captured by Merlin and committed suicide by detonating a thermo-nuclear device that vaporized New Camelot.

I've found two basic ways to have fun with Rifts, either the party is weak, which is good for role playing, or the party is hilariously powerful, which is good for carnage-y fun

[Crucible]

In a game a few years ago, I had a guy who was playing a Talus Physical Training character who then worked up the cash to get the Juicer Conversion after Rifted in to Rifts Earth. There was an Atlantean Undead Slayer, Mutant with Heroes Unlimted Powers...most notably Super Energy Expulsion, Ogre Cyber Knight, and last of all the Ultra Human. That was a group of powerhouses, but they were far from world beaters and they knew it.

They nearly got smacked down by Simvan Monster Riders, another time was in Atlantis, most notable was the vampires of Mexico...LOL.

The world of Rifts is the balance. The problem comes when the GM is too scared to be ganged up on by players and lose them.