Angels in Rifts

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
sasha
Adventurer
Posts: 792
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:02 am
Location: Petrodvorets, Russia

Unread post by sasha »

"stats" is fuzzy.

I'd nerf everything I could calculate half of. :-?
User avatar
cornholioprime
Palladin
Posts: 7684
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:05 am
Comment: At long last....I am FINALLY free of my wonderful addiction to the online Flash game "Bloons."
Well, mostly.....
Location: In the Hivelands with General Jericho Holmes, taking advantage of suddenly stupid Xiticix...

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by cornholioprime »

belial.1980 wrote:Question about angels:

Whenever they assume a physical form, all stats are halfed.

Let's take a seraph for example:

Her IQ goes to 12, MA 18, etc. This also effects combat bonuses, I take it, and PPE and ISP, right?

Does it also affect level of psionics and magic? Would they be 3rd instead of 6th level? How about MDC regeneration; would that be halved too? What about the magic spells itself? It says the seraph would normally have all elemental fire spells 1-8, but manifested in the physical plane would that become levels 1-4 instead?

Thanks in advance!
What Book is that stated in, not to mention Angels in general??

Off the top of my head, I don't remember seeing them anywhere besides Dragons and Gods...
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
User avatar
SkyeFyre
Hero
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:12 pm
Location: Canada EH?!
Contact:

Unread post by SkyeFyre »

Conversion Book 1:Unrevised
First line after the header SPIRITS OF LIGHT
"The beings that humanoids sometimes call angels..."

Nextly the descriptions are all those of angels, also the terms Cheruu and Seraph are both directly derived from the words Cherubim and Seraphim which are both alternate names describing angels.

Also, look under the descriptions for all 4 types of Spirit of Light, under ALLIES it states "Other angels and champions of good"

Key word there is "other". They are angels.


Now to answer the OPs question. The closest bit of clarity I can find in the book is under the RCC skill section. At the end it says "Remember to halve when in physical form" So even the skills are halved. If you wanna halve everything else, it's up to you... I do, and I believe that's how it was meant to be, however I don't have anything concrete to backup that global assumption.
Image
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
User avatar
Natasha
Champion
Posts: 3161
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:26 pm
Comment: Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Unread post by Natasha »

Beings of light are angels renamed.

Cyber-knights are still cyber-knights tho :P
User avatar
SkyeFyre
Hero
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:12 pm
Location: Canada EH?!
Contact:

Unread post by SkyeFyre »

...but the statement wasn't what their proper names were, but rather that there were no angels in Palladium. I was just pointing out that while their "proper name" isn't, they do go by the name of "angel" and that for example a Seraph is actually the name of a specific order of angels.
Image
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
User avatar
Rathorc Lemenger
Hero
Posts: 1575
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:20 pm
Comment: I am the explorer Extreme. Searcher of all things mysterious and interesting. FEAR ME.
Location: Nova Scotia

Unread post by Rathorc Lemenger »

Why not use some of the stuff from Rifter #41??

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.
User avatar
glitterboy2098
Rifts® Trivia Master
Posts: 13319
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

except that "angel" has a very specific connotation to it. IE: being the messengers and servants of God.

spirits of light are not messengers and servants of God. they are a race of powerful beings dedicated to the concept of good and opposing evil.

so they are not, technically, 'Angels'

however, for the people of the megaverse, particularly in human dominated worlds with christianity present, they were mistaken for servants of god, and thus dubbed angels.

not unlike how when Cargo cults form, a form of extreme culture shock where one side has abilities or goods that the other not only lacks, but lacks the understanding ot comprehend.

a spirit of light saving a town from a Balrog in say, medieval france, would see the townspeople try to rationalize the powers and biengs they saw in a context familur to them. so the Spirit of light becomes a servant of God (remember, christianity) sent by almighty God to protect the town from a "demon".
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website
User avatar
SkyeFyre
Hero
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:12 pm
Location: Canada EH?!
Contact:

Unread post by SkyeFyre »

glitterboy2098 wrote:spirits of light are not messengers and servants of God. they are a race of powerful beings dedicated to the concept of good and opposing evil.


Where does it say they're not? It's left vague because Palladium doesn't like walking that line. It's whatever you want it to be. All the book states is that they are opposed to evil, dedicated to good and all that, but nobody knows where they come from, or why they act the way they do. They could very well be servants of a greater god.
Image
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
User avatar
DhAkael
Knight
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:38 pm

Unread post by DhAkael »

Nightbane has a few decent concepts for angels that walk among mortals.
The official surce book that had them is deleted, but I think one of the back-issue rifters has them..the one wth the 'Hunter' on the cover infront of the stanied glass windows (forgot the number).
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind

I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise


~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
User avatar
SkyeFyre
Hero
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:12 pm
Location: Canada EH?!
Contact:

Unread post by SkyeFyre »

Cactuscat wrote:
spirits of light are not messengers and servants of God. they are a race of powerful beings dedicated to the concept of good and opposing evil.

If you want to get technical, so-called "Demons" aren't servants of Satan, just super-powerful extradimensional beings.

I think calling spirits of light "Angels" is as legitimate as calling their counterparts "Demons" or "Devils"... (not to be confused with Deevils)


They're not, you're right, it's specifically stated that Modeus currently is the Lord of Hades. :P

Yes I am technical. I play Palladium, and you need to be to survive on these boards sometimes. :-D
Image
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
User avatar
Natasha
Champion
Posts: 3161
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:26 pm
Comment: Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Unread post by Natasha »

Not sure how it works in Rifts but in PFRPG the Beings of Light are the First Edition Angels copy/pasted with title change and some other Second Edition garbage added. Calling Beings of Light "Angels" makes all the sense in the world, since that's what they are. :)
User avatar
cornholioprime
Palladin
Posts: 7684
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:05 am
Comment: At long last....I am FINALLY free of my wonderful addiction to the online Flash game "Bloons."
Well, mostly.....
Location: In the Hivelands with General Jericho Holmes, taking advantage of suddenly stupid Xiticix...

Unread post by cornholioprime »

SkyeFyre wrote:Conversion Book 1:Unrevised
First line after the header SPIRITS OF LIGHT
"The beings that humanoids sometimes call angels..."

Nextly the descriptions are all those of angels, also the terms Cheruu and Seraph are both directly derived from the words Cherubim and Seraphim which are both alternate names describing angels.

Also, look under the descriptions for all 4 types of Spirit of Light, under ALLIES it states "Other angels and champions of good"

Key word there is "other". They are angels.


Now to answer the OPs question. The closest bit of clarity I can find in the book is under the RCC skill section. At the end it says "Remember to halve when in physical form" So even the skills are halved. If you wanna halve everything else, it's up to you... I do, and I believe that's how it was meant to be, however I don't have anything concrete to backup that global assumption.
That says it all.

To the best of my knowledge, there is NO mention of those beings in the revised version....and BTW, in the Dragons and Gods Book, they don't chop off the MDC amounts when these beings go to Rifts Earth -in fact, they gain even more.

So, perhaps The Guy Whose Forum Name Is A Punctuation Mark might want to wait a bit, or read more carefully, before he tries again to school this Forum's Veterans in Rifts/Palladium knowledge, hmm??? :wink:
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
User avatar
cornholioprime
Palladin
Posts: 7684
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:05 am
Comment: At long last....I am FINALLY free of my wonderful addiction to the online Flash game "Bloons."
Well, mostly.....
Location: In the Hivelands with General Jericho Holmes, taking advantage of suddenly stupid Xiticix...

Unread post by cornholioprime »

belial.1980 wrote:I guess I phrased the question/topic completely wrong.

This thread should have been more properly titled something like "Stats for Spirits of Light from CB in Rifts setting"

My bad. Any other takers on the original question? I think the rules are quite vague as written.
Add their SDC and Hit Points and convert them Point for point (that's the general SOP for most Supernaturals coming to Rifts, BTW).

OR, go with the Dragons and Gods conversions, which gives them slightly more MDC than if you add the HP and SDC....and imposes NO penalties to their Die Rolls, either.
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
Lenwen

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hey hey hey ... This is a no gettin forum !! Its about Soft squishy witle angles .. er I mean Angels DOH !

Anyhoo I think they ment when you said their stats are all halfed is thier physical stats .. After all How do you UNLERN bah UNLEARN what you already LERNT .. Gah I'm out I seem to have undergone the aformentioned unlearned thingy ...
:eek: :shock: :?

-Lenwen.
User avatar
cornholioprime
Palladin
Posts: 7684
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:05 am
Comment: At long last....I am FINALLY free of my wonderful addiction to the online Flash game "Bloons."
Well, mostly.....
Location: In the Hivelands with General Jericho Holmes, taking advantage of suddenly stupid Xiticix...

Unread post by cornholioprime »

. wrote:
cornholioprime wrote:
SkyeFyre wrote:Conversion Book 1:Unrevised
First line after the header SPIRITS OF LIGHT
"The beings that humanoids sometimes call angels..."

Nextly the descriptions are all those of angels, also the terms Cheruu and Seraph are both directly derived from the words Cherubim and Seraphim which are both alternate names describing angels.

Also, look under the descriptions for all 4 types of Spirit of Light, under ALLIES it states "Other angels and champions of good"

Key word there is "other". They are angels.


Now to answer the OPs question. The closest bit of clarity I can find in the book is under the RCC skill section. At the end it says "Remember to halve when in physical form" So even the skills are halved. If you wanna halve everything else, it's up to you... I do, and I believe that's how it was meant to be, however I don't have anything concrete to backup that global assumption.
That says it all.

To the best of my knowledge, there is NO mention of those beings in the revised version....and BTW, in the Dragons and Gods Book, they don't chop off the MDC amounts when these beings go to Rifts Earth -in fact, they gain even more.

So, perhaps The Guy Whose Forum Name Is A Punctuation Mark might want to wait a bit, or read more carefully, before he tries again to school this Forum's Veterans in Rifts/Palladium knowledge, hmm??? :wink:


As a Veterain myself... You can go suck it :lol: .
You may have more post "LISTED", But I've been on the form as long as it's been around (In all it's forms), meaning I've posted 10Xthousand times for all you know.

And the issue as to what I posted is still valid, since you wrote;
cornholioprime wrote:What Book is that stated in, not to mention Angels in general?? Off the top of my head, I don't remember seeing them anywhere besides Dragons and Gods...
And I pointed out that angles are "Mentioned"... And I stated Conversion book 1 AND 2...So HA!
:P Gotcha
First off, "veterain" (howse about that ol' SpellCheck??), the conversion formula for angels is NOT in both Conversion Books 1 and 2 (Pantheons of the Megaverse being CB2), it is as of the present only in the CB1 unrevised and Dragons and Gods.

Second, in the first post that you made, you said/implied that the Conversion stats were in both the CB1 and the CB1, revised. Nice try at attempting to change what you said the first time, which was a (botched) effort at answering the OP's question and an attempt to rebuke me at the same time (also botched).

So keep dispensing with all that vast knowledge..."verterain." :wink:
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6297
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Unread post by Mack »

Corn, Period-dude, knock it off.

Discuss the topic, not the poster.
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
Prysus
Champion
Posts: 2593
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Boise, ID (US)
Contact:

Unread post by Prysus »

Greetings and Salutations. Well, in Rifts Conversion Book One (unrevised) it has a "Game Master Note" regarding players should only be allowed in physical forms, and that when in physical form reduce all stats by half. I would have originally thought this meant only attributes, but since it is also in the skills section, it seems it means EVERYTHING. How do you get stupider? Not sure. Maybe that physical form brain just isn't capable of handling the vast knowledge they typically capable of having. Or, "their physical manifestation as humanoids is likely to tax them greatly" (excerpted from Dragons & Gods, though no penalties are listed with it) which may also cause a considerable strain on their mind distracting them. Just a few thoughts if this is the route one wishes to go.

However, I will note that (unless I'm mistaken) Conversion Book One came out before Dragons & Gods. In Dragons & Gods (which are the same Spirits of Light, not different ones, the same ones), there is no such note and a few of the stats have been changed (and mentions a considerable power boost in the Astral Plane even), and there are the M.D.C. notes. I would take it as an updated version of the stats in Conversion Book One (which was updating first edition stats I believe with M.D.C. and such, but not truly updating them beyond that point).

And, on a semi-pointless note, in the new Conversion Book One (which did not have them as near as I can find, nor Dark Conversions) there is a note saying to watch for Rifts Dragons & Gods (Coming Soon). Now, as this is Palladium that may or may not happen, and if it happens it will be hard to tell when. But, it may always have some of the answers in there. :p Anyways, hopefully some of this has helped. I know it's not truly new information, but my main point is that Dragons & Gods was the newer and updated version. It's possible it was left out on accident, but with the usual cut & paste job from Palladium, the fact it is not there I would actually view as far more significant. Hopefully this has been of some help, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

P.S. Oh! Just one more thing. While I don't mind what one G.M. does in their games, in Dragons & Gods it does mention Spirits of Light are a mystery and such, but it does also state "they are neither gods nor the minions of gods." Not picking on anyone, just stating a book reference to something mentioned earlier.
User avatar
cyber-yukongil v2.5
Sosyourfacist
Posts: 918
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:40 pm
Comment: This space for rent. Inquire within!
Location: M.I.A.

Unread post by cyber-yukongil v2.5 »

Misfit KotLD wrote:Does discussing the post not the poster just apply to Corny?


of course it does. don't be silly.
"A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill." ~ Heinlein

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations. ~some unnamed joker
User avatar
Natasha
Champion
Posts: 3161
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:26 pm
Comment: Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Unread post by Natasha »

Misfit KotLD wrote:
cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:
Misfit KotLD wrote:Does discussing the post not the poster just apply to Corny?


of course it does. don't be silly.

Damnit, I missed another memo. :oops:

Re-memo's Misfit. You were suppose to WU me $100 man.
ryokoryu
Wanderer
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:57 am

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by ryokoryu »

This can easily be solved using HU as in PU2 there are rules for rolling up an angel sent to the mortal world. They follow as such
21-25% Angel or Ancient Spirit of Order/Light or
Good: The character is some sort of supernatural being
that appears to be a good spirit or an angel on Earth , or
an immortal creature of flesh and blood that appears and
acts like an angel. It has wings made of feathers or like
some attractive insect (butterfly, or gossamer and iridescent like a dragonfly's), or made of energy. The wings may
magically appear and disappear as desired , and the angel
can fly at speeds of up to 300 mph (480 km) and can fly
into outer space if they so desire. These characters are almost always of a clearly good alignment: Principled (60%)
or Scrupulous (40%), unless fallen and evil (any evil alignment; rare), or fallen and confused (Unprincipled or Anarchist; rare).
Attribute Bonuses: +3 to LQ., +1 D6 to M.A. , +2 to M.E.,
+ 1 D6+5 to P.S., + 1 D6 to P.E. , P.P., and Spd., and
+ 1 D4+4 to P.B. Natural A R.: 1 0. Hit Points: 1 D6x1 0 +P.E.
attribute number and 2D6 per level of experience. S.D.C.:
2D6x1 0+25. (H.P. and S.D.C. are combined and the total
becomes M.D.C., in Mega-Damage environments.) Bonuses: + 1 D6x1 0 P.P.E., +2 on initiative, +2 to dodge while
flying, +4 to pull punch , +2 to save vs magic, +6 to save vs
possession and + 1 D6+ 1 to save vs Horror Factor, plus
any bonuses from super abil ities or skills
Colonel_Tetsuya
Champion
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

The entire problem is solved by CB1 (non-revised) being non-canon.

It has been supplanted and replaced, completely, by CB1r.

Does CB1r say anything about this? If not, then its moot.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
ryokoryu
Wanderer
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:57 am

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by ryokoryu »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The entire problem is solved by CB1 (non-revised) being non-canon.

It has been supplanted and replaced, completely, by CB1r.

Does CB1r say anything about this? If not, then its moot.

that is pulled directly out of PU2 not CB 1, PU2 provides it's own conversion rules right in book so no it isn't moot and your statement is not relevant as your referenced materials are inconsequential to the information.
User avatar
Blue_Lion
Knight
Posts: 6226
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Clone Lab 27

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The entire problem is solved by CB1 (non-revised) being non-canon.

It has been supplanted and replaced, completely, by CB1r.

Does CB1r say anything about this? If not, then its moot.

Not mute when 1 it has not been over written and 2 dragons and gods also calls spirits of light angels. So it is consistent with how they are treated in palladium and nothing says they are not or where changed.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6297
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Re: Angels in Rifts

Unread post by Mack »

Topic Locked for necromancy. 11 years between posts.
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
Locked

Return to “Rifts®”