Rifts Bolivia

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Gangrel44
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Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by Gangrel44 »

Hey I was wondering if in the two South America books they mention anything about Bolivia. Any info would be vastly appreciated.
Last edited by Gangrel44 on Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Just going by the map most of modern Bolivia is in Arkohn territory.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Well futz me sideways...
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Can always have a beleaguered local resistance movement fighting against the space-ratdogs and their gorilloid minions.

Or perhaps a Ley line 'fade town' or underground community that has escaped notice/conquest by the aliens. That thin high-altitude air does funny things with peoples' perceptions.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Found out the Capital of La Paz is still around.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by taalismn »

Gangrel44 wrote:Found out the Capital of La Paz is still around.


And there you have another starting point to build on...Is it an Arkhon base? A city under occupation? Did it benefit from the Golden Age and become a super-modern metropolis with caches of high tech? Is its museums potential homes to magic artifacts?
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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taalismn wrote:Can always have a beleaguered local resistance movement fighting against the space-ratdogs and their gorilloid minions.

Or perhaps a Ley line 'fade town' or underground community that has escaped notice/conquest by the aliens. That thin high-altitude air does funny things with peoples' perceptions.


Very much in favor of this as a good starting point.

Also when it comes to filling out places some country without a dedicated worldbook (or i want to have some stuff in addition to the canon one), i use two tricks.

"Experience Tables as Hexcrawl" method:
- Get a worldbook somewhat connected to the part of world of your interest (or the RMB if there's none), go to the Experience Tables page.
- Count how many tables there are, make a dice roll out of it - RMB has 12 tables, so you use 1d12, for example.
- The OCC or RCC rolled will be the "core" of the culture of the made up city-state/kingdom/etc - "Dragon" would mean a Dragonwright citadel or a kingdom like Freehold, while "Juicer" would imply a city-state like Kingsdale, with a strong cultural focus in that particular class of combatant.
- If the table rolled covers multiple OCCs or RCCs, either roll one (head or tails for two options, 1d6 for 3 options), pick what you like for the moment or make a "mixed" society with two or more options.

This one is good to give a quick but colorful jumping point for the GM to quickly start and improvise from. Easy to expand or discard depending on vagaries of the PCs party and so on. The "randomness", especially with RMB or RUE as base, can also be a way to reinforce the "magical post-apocalyptic feel" and somewhat sidestep the "country of regional stereotypes" trap that both writers and GMs can fall into from time to time.


"Person of Culture" method:
- Do a Google or wiki search for SF or fantasy writers from the country of interest. Five total is good, five of each is more than enough.
- Try to find summaries of their works for all kinds of ideas to mine.

This one is definitely more involved and time-consuming, but will probably give you some fully fleshed-out settings, cultures and plotlines to adapt into the table and trouble your players with. Can be quite engrossing to bust one's creative chops in forming a whole organic scenario out of the favorite ideas you mine, but it can also lead a GM into overdeveloping stuff that one's players might never interact with, so be warned.


Either can work pretty well and most of time i alternate between both to keep things varied and slightly unpredictable even for me as GM.


But speaking of La Paz, it seems to be the place upon whose ruins the Megaversal Legion built the community/"country" of Fort Desperado.
Oh, sorry, "Peace City" and Fort Desperado are separate places though part of the same small state ruled by the Legionnaires.

Also, it seems Lake Titicaca stands as a border between the territories of the Legion, the Empire of the Sun and the Arkhon. And another reason the Inca are not exactly chummy with the Legionnaires seems to be that the area was previously a Dakir Enclave, taken by the previous overlords of the Megaversal Legion through violence, expelling thousands of Bolivian survivors of the Great Cataclysm and cutting off a number of Inca cities in the plains to the East. As a result, the Incas and the Legion had a number of violent clashes in the time before they overthrew their Dakir overlords. It's all in pages 102-104 of South America 2.

(Establishing the span of time the Megaversal Legion has been on Rifts Earth might require some fiddling around with General Arthur Savage's age - supposedly in the 90s - and some parts of the timeline for the group, but on first brush, would seem to have been between 50-68 PA)

PS: And South America 1&2 had to screw me over on the first method, by having 14 & 15 experience tables respectively, obviously.... :x
One more reason to call those books trash. Or take the 1d30 out of the dust bin and give it some use, i guess. :P
Last edited by SolCannibal on Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by taalismn »

I totally missed the Megaversal Legion location info. Ouch.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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taalismn wrote:I totally missed the Megaversal Legion location info. Ouch.


It happens, half the time i would prefer to even forget the Megaversal Legion exists, honestly. :roll:
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by taalismn »

SolCannibal wrote:
taalismn wrote:I totally missed the Megaversal Legion location info. Ouch.


It happens, half the time i would prefer to even forget the Megaversal Legion exists, honestly. :roll:

I like them, even though they were derivative of 'Hammer's Slammers' and a half-dozen 'Earthlings used as alien cannon fodder' novels that came out at around the same time.

Still, power creep aside, I was happy that South America benefitted somewhat from the Golden Age of technology and would have liked see more done with unique technologies and tech-centers that could have sprung up in SA as access to WWW encouraged education and development.
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
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To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

taalismn wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
taalismn wrote:I totally missed the Megaversal Legion location info. Ouch.


It happens, half the time i would prefer to even forget the Megaversal Legion exists, honestly. :roll:

I like them, even though they were derivative of 'Hammer's Slammers' and a half-dozen 'Earthlings used as alien cannon fodder' novels that came out at around the same time.


It's not the concept per se that bothers me so much as how much the writing tries to beat the drum of the supposed awesomeness and overpoweredness of their (ridiculously incompetent) defeated alien overlords in a very heavy-handed and amateurish manner. That combined "and the most advanced group in the whole subcontinent is a bunch of transmigrated american soldiers (and their alien friends)" that bothers me.

Thought that's almost nothing in offensiveness compared to the virtual (non-)treatment of my country, Brasil, the nation that occupies nearly half of South America and yet gets nearly completely ignored as reference across two whole worldbooks... :x :x :x

Well, at least i got to become an "enemy of state" in Manoa because a certain god was deeply unamused with Cyprian selling bootleg copies of The Lion King in spanish.

taalismn wrote:Still, power creep aside, I was happy that South America benefitted somewhat from the Golden Age of technology and would have liked see more done with unique technologies and tech-centers that could have sprung up in SA as access to WWW encouraged education and development.


Oh, do i know that feeling well, too well indeed....
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote:Thought that's almost nothing in offensiveness compared to the virtual (non-)treatment of my country, Brasil, that nation that occupies nearly half of South America and yet gets nearly completely ignored as reference across two whole worldbooks..

Technically in the SA books isn't Brazil like split up among several separate factions including the Lagarto (Lizardmen), the El Daorado City States (Manoa, Omagua, Cibola), Pirate Kingdoms, (at least part of) Silver Republic of Santiago, possibly Maga Island (jungle Elves) and Bahia Island. At least trying to compare realworld map to the Rifts-Earth map of SA, placements might be difficult because of the changing coastline and lack of pre-Rifts geography references being used (IIRC).

It's true there is no "Rifts Brazil" nation state, but then you can say that about a great many real-world nations.

Time for a Rifts World Book South America 3 or Source Book for South America?
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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ShadowLogan wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:Thought that's almost nothing in offensiveness compared to the virtual (non-)treatment of my country, Brasil, that nation that occupies nearly half of South America and yet gets nearly completely ignored as reference across two whole worldbooks..

Technically in the SA books isn't Brazil like split up among several separate factions including the Lagarto (Lizardmen), the El Daorado City States (Manoa, Omagua, Cibola), Pirate Kingdoms, (at least part of) Silver Republic of Santiago, possibly Maga Island (jungle Elves) and Bahia Island. At least trying to compare realworld map to the Rifts-Earth map of SA, placements might be difficult because of the changing coastline and lack of pre-Rifts geography references being used (IIRC).

It's true there is no "Rifts Brazil" nation state, but then you can say that about a great many real-world nations.


Yes, but sucessor-nations or city-states that do point to a cultural line of descent so to speak are aplenty in North America and many other places - well, except Africa, that by the book is Phoenix Empire, Lalibella & nothing but savanna, jungle or desert.

Anyway, what might have been meant to be a brazilian sucessor is the "Kingdom of Bahia" - that even with greatly changed coastline, i can tell you is about as close to RL state of Bahia as Colombia is to Bolivia and to boot, it's an island, even though "Bahia" is archaic spelling of baía, that means "bay". The kingdom of bay, that is an island. Apparently the natives have no understanding of anything vaguely resembling portuguese or spanish for that matter. :roll:

Omagua ain't bad, it even fits nicely with there being a lot of jaguar, puma and other feline-related folklore in the Amazon and Pantanal. I might tweak some bits here and there but overall concept is valid.

ShadowLogan wrote:Time for a Rifts World Book South America 3 or Source Book for South America?


Definitely nope. If the Africa and South America worldbooks show us anything, is that trying to tackle too broad expanses in one or two books can turn into a recipe for disaster. Much better to come up with one solid nation in that part of the world and the conflicts it must deal, inside and outside of its borders, to serve as narrative springboard for GMs to devise their own stuff to merge and clash with future books. It's what we get with the NGR, through which we also indirectly get the Gargoyle Empire, Angel of Death, Tarnow and a bunch of other stuff. Damn, the books on Russia might be seen as a expansion of the NGR narrative sphere.

If South America were to ever be adressed again in the future, i would much prefer to be a worldbook focused in one nation, be it one of those seen in previous books or a new one, be it literally new or simply unknown to the in-character narrators, instead of a rehash of past mistakes.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote: Yes, but successor-nations or city-states that do point to a cultural line of descent so to speak are aplenty in North America and many other places - well, except Africa, that by the book is Phoenix Empire, Lalibella & nothing but savanna, jungle or desert.

Unless Pre-Rifts Brazil's population density map in 2098 changes radically different than it is in 2020, it might be that there is no cultural line of descent due to the upheavals that changed the coastline (which is where Brazil's population is centrally located) among other factors (alien plagues, invaders, etc). And a Good Portion of the United States in North Amercia's highest areas of population in 2010 are also relatively light on civilization IINM in Rifts by circa 100PA.

SolCannibal wrote: If South America were to ever be addressed again in the future, i would much prefer to be a worldbook focused in one nation, be it one of those seen in previous books or a new one, be it literally new or simply unknown to the in-character narrators, instead of a rehash of past mistakes.

The main catching point is finding someone to write it and if there is enough demand/interest for it for Palladium to consider doing it.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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ShadowLogan wrote:
SolCannibal wrote: Yes, but successor-nations or city-states that do point to a cultural line of descent so to speak are aplenty in North America and many other places - well, except Africa, that by the book is Phoenix Empire, Lalibella & nothing but savanna, jungle or desert.

Unless Pre-Rifts Brazil's population density map in 2098 changes radically different than it is in 2020, it might be that there is no cultural line of descent due to the upheavals that changed the coastline (which is where Brazil's population is centrally located) among other factors (alien plagues, invaders, etc). And a Good Portion of the United States in North Amercia's highest areas of population in 2010 are also relatively light on civilization IINM in Rifts by circa 100PA.


You have a point in part, but there has been a population spike in the western border in the last two decades that shows no sign of receding, not to mention second most populous state, Minas Gerais, has no coastline, is mountainious and borders the other two most populous ones. The state of Tocantins meanwhile is kind of a mix of both things.

And well, migratory waves of refugees happen. It's why the Republic of Colombia is mostly over the territory of Venezuela, i think. :wink:
(Probably what the writers expected to justify the Kingdom of Bahia's localization - if not for massive research failures that include but goes beyond the name, that is)

ShadowLogan wrote:
SolCannibal wrote: If South America were to ever be addressed again in the future, i would much prefer to be a worldbook focused in one nation, be it one of those seen in previous books or a new one, be it literally new or simply unknown to the in-character narrators, instead of a rehash of past mistakes.

The main catching point is finding someone to write it and if there is enough demand/interest for it for Palladium to consider doing it.


True. Considering how much flak the SA books take from much of the fanbase, i guess it would take someone coming to Palladium with a pitch first - and maybe getting some attention from people in the forums for it to be seriously considered, i guess.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote:You have a point in part, but there has been a population spike in the western border in the last two decades that shows no sign of receding, not to mention second most populous state, Minas Gerais, has no coastline, is mountainious and borders the other two most populous ones. The state of Tocantins meanwhile is kind of a mix of both things.

And well, migratory waves of refugees happen. It's why the Republic of Colombia is mostly over the territory of Venezuela, i think. :wink:
(Probably what the writers expected to justify the Kingdom of Bahia's localization - if not for massive research failures that include but goes beyond the name, that is)

As I said if the population density doesn't change, and we have to remember the SA books are from the 90s (IIRC), so they'd be using even older population density assumptions than we are.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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ShadowLogan wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:You have a point in part, but there has been a population spike in the western border in the last two decades that shows no sign of receding, not to mention second most populous state, Minas Gerais, has no coastline, is mountainious and borders the other two most populous ones. The state of Tocantins meanwhile is kind of a mix of both things.

And well, migratory waves of refugees happen. It's why the Republic of Colombia is mostly over the territory of Venezuela, i think. :wink:
(Probably what the writers expected to justify the Kingdom of Bahia's localization - if not for massive research failures that include but goes beyond the name, that is)

As I said if the population density doesn't change, and we have to remember the SA books are from the 90s (IIRC), so they'd be using even older population density assumptions than we are.


Well, that's pretty much when northern Goias gets populous and politically relevant enough to separate and become its own state, Tocantins, that i mentioned above.
Just sayin'.... :wink:
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Warshield73 wrote:Just going by the map most of modern Bolivia is in Arkohn territory.


That's why they've gotten so colorful.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Killer Cyborg wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:Just going by the map most of modern Bolivia is in Arkohn territory.


That's why they've gotten so colorful.


Now i'm trying to imagine Arkhons dressed in a mix of whatever was their fashion like back home with bolivian traditional dress.
And i don't even remember how they look out of armor. :lol:
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:Just going by the map most of modern Bolivia is in Arkohn territory.


That's why they've gotten so colorful.


Now i'm trying to imagine Arkhons dressed in a mix of whatever was their fashion like back home with bolivian traditional dress.
And i don't even remember how they look out of armor. :lol:


:lol:
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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As an side because i think there might be a reference but can't remember for sure, but did not a splinter of the Arkhon fleet land on Mars?

Oh yeah, found it. Considered mostly optional and ties in with the "Rifts in Orbit" but definitely there. Also, if i'm understanding it right, the Arkhons arrived in two waves due to space-time hiccup issues.

First, 2/3 of the Thlo-Arkhon clan fleet came in - and got hit, hard - back in 74 P.A., being forced to land in bits and pieces in a number of locales, mainly between the Andes & Amazon and, apparently mainly China and the rest of Asia (oh, those guys are so screwed...).

[As an aside, these multiple forced landings and scattering of the Arkhon fleet makes it perfectly possible for other groups, in South America or whatever parts of Rifts Earth a GM feels like, to have acquired some pieces of Arkhon gear, either looted from downed ships or their corpses or obtained through combat & trade with any stranded survivors. Damn, depending on who acquired it some reverse engineering studies might be possible too]

Later on, almost 30 years later (so around 103-104 P.A. i guess) the disappeared 1/3 popped back in the physical space. And then found themselves still with their pants down in a major conflict with the forces of the space stations and the moonbase. That they even managed to survive goes to show their commanding officer, Lord Tarris, quick thinking and cool under fire.


Ah, and they look like furless cat people. Whoever described then as "alien humanoids with a mix of feline and reptilian characteristics" apparently wasn't aware that hairless mammals are a thing too.

But speaking of fashion, according to the book, "they favor skin-tight clothing, capes, and decorative chain mail or plate armor. Soldiers wear stylized body armor with one central "eye" and decorated with short spikes. The military uses red for both uniforms and vehicles/power armor. Civilian garb runs the whole gamut, and some Arkhons have adopted Earth clothing as a fashionable new trend."

Yes, looks like Arkhons mixing traditional bolivian dress with their own homeworld fashion, shawls or ponchos adapted into capes or cloaks specially i'd guess, does fit with the fluff.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Gangrel44 wrote:Found out the Capital of La Paz is still around.


Anyway, what were you thinking about in relation to Bolivia before we got the info on La Paz being pretty much the base of the Megaversal Legion?
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:Just going by the map most of modern Bolivia is in Arkohn territory.


That's why they've gotten so colorful.


Now i'm trying to imagine Arkhons dressed in a mix of whatever was their fashion like back home with bolivian traditional dress.
And i don't even remember how they look out of armor. :lol:

they look like bipedal greyhound/bulldog mixes
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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SolCannibal wrote:
Gangrel44 wrote:Found out the Capital of La Paz is still around.


Anyway, what were you thinking about in relation to Bolivia before we got the info on La Paz being pretty much the base of the Megaversal Legion?


To be truthful, a variety of things...
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Gangrel44 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Gangrel44 wrote:Found out the Capital of La Paz is still around.


Anyway, what were you thinking about in relation to Bolivia before we got the info on La Paz being pretty much the base of the Megaversal Legion?


To be truthful, a variety of things...


Then bring it up - start from the begining and let's see what the people here can brainstorm and tinker together.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Well... Seeing that most of Old Bolivia under the thumb of the Arkhons, I am wondering if there would be an underground resistance try to regain the rest of the country. Also, seeing that there is a sizable vampire population in South America, I am also wondering how they would factor into this...
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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Gangrel44 wrote:Well... Seeing that most of Old Bolivia under the thumb of the Arkhons, I am wondering if there would be an underground resistance try to regain the rest of the country. Also, seeing that there is a sizable vampire population in South America, I am also wondering how they would factor into this...


Well, one might say vampire guerillas would be even more motivated to conduct an underground resistance, for certain. :lol:

Or a vampire intelligence might attempt to convert some of the Arkhons to combine their powers with the aliens technology for the making of a much, much greater threat instead. Now more seriously, i imagine a major priority of a master vampire in Rifts Earth would be to find a nexus, specially one with a pyramid already, to make into a center of power for the Intelligence its bound to eventually cross through and nestle into.

I know there are precolumbian megalithic complexes in the country, but no idea if the local cultures (or at least the setting's version of them) built stone pyramids like the Aztec or Mayas up in the north.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

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These are good points, ones I may even incorporate into my games in the future. Another creature I think is under utilized in the South America setting is the Ellal. I could see them being powers behind the throne types. Especially in regimes that have a high execution rate...
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Gangrel44 wrote:These are good points, ones I may even incorporate into my games in the future. Another creature I think is under utilized in the South America setting is the Ellal. I could see them being powers behind the throne types. Especially in regimes that have a high execution rate...


So can Dybbuks, with their capacity to "wear" freshly dead bodies, generate a considerable degree of confusion and misdirection. Ironically, i can even see both creatures making a partnership of sorts, with one or more dybbuks serving the undead in exchange for the use of the Ellal's victims as "wardrobe".

As an aside, the "South America has over a dozen Ellal who are 400-600 years old" in page 148 is kind of unexpected, considering that, afaik, the time of the Rifts wasn't that long ago. Either those "ancients" have been rifted from other dimensions or had already been active in hiding for ages even before the Cataclysm.

Something that has also crossed my mind is considering how longstanding has cocalero culture been in Peru & Bolivia, how might those farmers and the mystic-religious practices associated with that crop connect and/or mix with the herbs popularized in the use of Psi-Cola, among other things and its potential effects in local society.
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Gangrel44
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by Gangrel44 »

Many of those Ellal were the result of Ellal spirits possessing dead Spanish Conquistadors during the time of Cortez in the 1500's or in later centuries...
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glitterboy2098
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

keep in mind that the SA books have giants who have been on earth since before the cataclysm (indicated to have been native to earth since at least before the fall of atlantis), and several other books have races and supernatuiral beings that were around for a long time before the cataclysm. so there being evil spirits that have been around on earth for centuries before the cataclysm isn't all that unlikely.
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SolCannibal
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

glitterboy2098 wrote:keep in mind that the SA books have giants who have been on earth since before the cataclysm (indicated to have been native to earth since at least before the fall of atlantis), and several other books have races and supernatuiral beings that were around for a long time before the cataclysm. so there being evil spirits that have been around on earth for centuries before the cataclysm isn't all that unlikely.


True, there are a number of minor examples peppered here and there across the worldbooks or other places (like the Yeti in the Himalayas being Rahu-Men remnants in disguise, according to CB1), just felt it was interesting to call out that bit on the Ellal exactly for that.
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Re: Rifts Bolivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Gangrel44 wrote:These are good points, ones I may even incorporate into my games in the future. Another creature I think is under utilized in the South America setting is the Ellal. I could see them being powers behind the throne types. Especially in regimes that have a high execution rate...


Anyway, how have things been going with your plans? Any thoughts on the Ellal & Dybbuk "alliance" i previously suggested?
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