dragons

[Shadowhunterboi21]

is there any other dragons becides the chiang-ku that gets an occ if not which dragon would you recommend playing.

[Giant2005]

The Ultican for sure.
They have a lot more MDC than the other Dragons, start with magic, and are master psychics. Plus they have these two traits which are extremely important:
1. They are small enough to still be able to go in to buildings and such during those hours when metamorphosis is not an option.
2. They aren't devoid of skills like other Dragons. In fact, they start with an absolute crapload of them (more than almost any other character in the game).

[Curbludgeon]

Welcome, new poster!

It isn't so much that the Chiang-Ku gets an O.C.C., but gets access to spells and limited skills from an O.C.C.. Most other hatchlings are similarly able to learn spells from one or more traditions, and while several give examples of what's common among that species traditions aren't explicitly banned, save for exclusive things like tattoo magic. I'll start putting together a list, and maybe other posters can chime in with examples I've missed!

Palladium Fantasy: Dragons and Gods (most of these are found in Rifts Conversion Book 1 (not the revised edition) or CB1, and several are in the Rifts Main Book, or RMB)
Basilisk
Chiang-Ku Dragon
Cockatrice (no magic)
Fire Dragon
Great Horned Dragon
Hydra (5 spells known only)
Ice Dragon
Kukulcan (intuitively knows air elemental spells, can learn others)
Lo-Dox Dragon (intuitively knows water elemental spells, small chance of knowing others)
Night Stalker Dragon (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Serpent of the Wind (intuitively knows air elemental spells, can learn others)
Thunder Lizard (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Ultucan Dragon (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Wooly Dragon (no magic)

Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE)
Cat's Eye Dragon
Flame Wind Dragon
Forest Runner
Royal Frilled Dragon
Snow Lizard
Whip-Tailed Dragon

Rifts World Book 8: Japan (WB8)
Shikome Kido-Mi
Kumo Mi
Asama-Tatsu

Rifts World Book 12: Psyscape (WB12)
Zaayr Crystal Dragon (strictly limited spell selection)

Rifts World Book 20: Canada (WB20)
Ogopogo

Rifts World Book 30: Lemuria (WB32)
Ghost Dragon
Hydros Dragon
Octo Dragon
Sand Dragon

Palladium Fantasy Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands
Sandwyrm

Palladium Fantasy Book 16: Byzantium and the Northern Islands
Winterserpent

Rifter 73
Triumvirate Dragon

Sea Serpents (which are often confused with dragons)

Monsters and Animals
Horned Ramrod
Snaggle Tooth Gobbler
Viper Serpent

Palladium Fantasy Book 16: Byzantium and the Northern Islands
Jormund Serpent
Northern Straggler

Rifts World Book 1: Vampire Kingdoms (WB1)
Agenor River Serpent

Rifts World Book 32: Lemuria (WB32)
Shadow Serpent
Tiger Serpent

Unofficial Sea Serpents

Rifter 57
Horn Worm (this one's more of an Earth Serpent)
Sisiutl Sea Serpent

Rifter 66
Jonah the Sea Dragon (from Splicers)

[drewkitty ~..~]

Dragons always get the genetic/imprinted/whatever skills that make up the Dragon RCC.

Unlike with 99.99% of the RCCS, this is absolutdamndlutly the only CC the dragon char can start with.

After they have hatched and explored their natural abilities they are said to be free to explore having a job class (OCC). But there is a problem with that, the only published changing class rules produced by PB, literally only mentions covering OCC's, and they are not in any gamebook of the Rifts Game.
(there are some optional changing class rules posted on the PB site. Which still are also 'not right' for Dragons.)

That being said, I would treat Dragons like a DND char that multi-classes. With the player or GM dividing the exp earned between the D.RCC and whatever Job class the player chooses.
Yes, even this leaves out PCCs as a choice for a dragon, because as per the published changing Class rules as a whole a character has to start out as PCC if they are going to be a PCC.
(Note that the ""Psychic OCCs"" in the RUE book are just PCCs with an extra 'O' in them.)
-------------

The only PB Dragon chars that stand outside the above are the ones detailed in the HU 2nd ed gamebooks.
There is a 'dragon immortal' in the PU2 book.

[Curbludgeon]

Please note the above poster is misrepresenting the Dual O.C.C. rules found in the published game errata, as part of what I believe to be some sort of axe to grind over the popularity of Rifts as compared with other settings. This is not the first time they've done so. They are additionally incorrect regarding the now-deprecated usage of P.C.C. post RUE. Further, while it arguably appears to be an editing issue within the Dragons and Gods book, page 22 explicitly states Basilisk hatchlings start with a Magic O.C.C. of choice, contradicting another claim made previous.

As for dragons I like, the Ultucan is fun, the Zaayr has a good story hook, and the Sand Dragon sits around making M.D.C. sand castles. The writeups in Dragons and Gods give hatchling characters far more starting skills than foud in RMB/RUE, which is a mixed bag in terms of roleplaying.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Note that there are those in the community that disagree with what the Published Canon Changing Class Rules literally says. As the above post gives their representative arguments for not following the Published Rules.

The Published PB 'Changing Class Rules' are in the PF 2nd gamebook "the High Seas", with caveats within the PF 2nd ed Core book.

It is nice of Curbludgeon, to Post the optional POSTED changing class rules. Since they have Only been Posted they are Published. At such I have understood things correctly and I have said things correctly.

PB's Published changing class rules are not even in Rift RPG. What matters when using the published rules is the standards of the Game they are found it.
To give an apples to apples example: Since Mind Melters in the PF game are PCCs, the rifts Mind Melters have to follow the same rules for changing classes that PF MMs do. Which means the class can't be changed from, and can't be changed to. As pro the whole of the Published PB Changing Class Rules.

Published Rules: It can be boiled down to the three words "In A Gamebook". And since the Posted rules don't take up much space, there is the question of why they don't just publish them to make them official? It's not like they don't have lots of rifts world- or sourcebooks they could just slip in the rules changes for rifts, oops rules additions into rifts.


Each of PB games are different. With Rules Specialized for that Game. Even if there is an ease of converting chars between the games.

[Axelmania]

Are we still quibbling over whether rules say "OCCs" v "CCs" when Rifts has been habitually changing prior RCCs over to OCCs lately?

I get that's psi, and I get "you can't learn to be an RCC like a dragon if you're born a human", but I'm not understanding which part is a barrier to a dragon learning the vagabond OCC (very popular amongst Basilisks I've heard)

[Curbludgeon]

Since they have Only been Posted they are Published. At such I have understood things correctly and I have said things correctly.
...Since Mind Melters in the PF game are PCCs, the rifts Mind Melters have to follow the same rules for changing classes that PF MMs do.

Web publishing is publishing, irrespective of how you feel about that. I find it amusing that when you were tripping over yourself trying to talk all fancy-like you left out the word not, and as a result accidentally made a correct statement. Also, while classes like Mind Mages or Mind Masters are similar to Mind Melters they are not the same O.C.C., and so your second mistake that I quoted above is instead amusing for being nonsensical.

[drewkitty ~..~]

E-publishing....Yes PB does that. It is though Drive Through RPG.
Does PB post things on it's site, yes. That is not that same thing as being Published in a game book. Which is why it's optional.

Oops I mis-spoke. I should of said Mind-mage PCC and Mind melter PCC. Yep, they are the same class with different skills. (mind master PCC in NB are different and weaker. So using then would be more like apples to crab apples.)

I am not stupid. I very much look at the class with open eyes and treat it for what "It Is" not for what 'it is called'. If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

The class is a Psychic Char Class as per 'what the stats of the class spell the class out to be'. Even if there is a stupid label calling it a Racial or Job class.

An even better apples to apples example is the Psi Mystic and the (Psi) Mystic. (why is it a better example? Cause they both have Mystic in their names....and PB has copied the Mystic into the NB game too.)

Note: I know I am not wrong in what I say even though you think I am wrong. Ages ago in a far different time someone pointed out to me a passage of text that was published post-RUE that says to use the PF changing class rules found in the High seas book for the changing class rules of rifts.
As the location of this text is lost to me at the moment the request for citation would be fore nought. I can just tell you I have seen it.

Now do I follow the rules that were Published and MAKE SENSE, or do I follow rules that were just posted and that are stupid because they DON'T MAKE SENSE? *sardonic rhetorical*
-------------

Do I have a house rule about changing the class of PCCs to something else? yes. They have lost their Psionic powers (for one reason or another) and they have to pick a new job---> pick an OCC. And since they have burned off even more PPE to develop their powers choosing a Mage class is a stupid waste of time. They don't have the PPE to fuel the spells. Note that since they don't have any Psi powers anymore, they can't pick a PCC. It is only a Job Class (ether knowledge or skilled).
-------------

Do I have the BTS 1 core book? yes. So I know the WHY behind the low PPE scores that Psychic chars have, and the WHY no-one can change class to a psionic class. Which tells be WHY the posted rules you are so enamored with are stupid.


usage definition: rhetorical: Stop, and use you brain to think about all of it. Maybe review the texts being talked about in question. Then if you are just going to parrot what you've been spouting before this, Don't Reply.

[Father Goose]

I thought this thread was about dragons...

[drewkitty ~..~]

It asked about Dragons and having classes. And since dragons only start out with their egg knowledge.
I gave the published canon reasons why I would house rule them as having them DND multi-class chars.

[Orin J.]

Dragon is an R.C.C., not an O.C.C. Dragons can take O.C.C.s on top of that, but they don't get to start with an O.C.C.

i reccomend fire dragons because they look cool and breathe fire.

what the cludge happened in this thread?

[rem1093]

Isn't there a thing in the right up for the Sea Titans, that says that after a 100 or two years they can select another OCC. I can see this working with other long lived or immortal races. Using the Dragon as an example, a Hatchling has the RCC skills, but when they become an Adult (40+yrs later)they can pick an OCC. Then when they become Ancient, they can gain another OCC. Because they live so long, they have the time to fully learn new jobs/OCC's.
As for Duel classing I house ruled that a long time ago.

[Axelmania]

The closest thing to a dual-class I've seen is Godlings w/ powers of 2 mage classes (but Ithink that's just spells) or a Demigod w/ mage occ and 1 mage class power.

Otherwise it's just changing them and advancing separately.

I don't think a dragon legally needs to wait until adulthood to learn an OCC but they're probably just arrogantly not inclined to.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Dragon is an R.C.C., not an O.C.C. Dragons can take O.C.C.s on top of that, but they don't get to start with an O.C.C.

i reccomend fire dragons because they look cool and breathe fire.

what the cludge happened in this thread?

So you basically agree with me? To house rule their EXP to work like DND multi-classing?

[Orin J.]

Dragon is an R.C.C., not an O.C.C. Dragons can take O.C.C.s on top of that, but they don't get to start with an O.C.C.

i reccomend fire dragons because they look cool and breathe fire.

what the cludge happened in this thread?

So you basically agree with me? To house rule their EXP to work like DND multi-classing?

i wouldn't use original D&D's multi-classing, there's better systems............

[Curbludgeon]

Oh, I didn't list the Sandwyrm. Is there anything else? Wasn't there a dragon in one of the creepy pinup Rifters?

Spoiler:

I am not stupid. I very much look at the class with open eyes and treat it for what "It Is" not for what 'it is called'.

I disagree. What you are doing is exploiting a thread started with the first post from a new account to make the claim your personal opinion is not only correct, but a somehow revealed truth that those taking published rules at face value are either unable or unwilling to understand, and reassert that as part of a trend carried out ad nauseam over the course of years. Take, for example, your pretentiously titled character class list thread, and this post within it wherein you quoted yourself.

Note: Please do not argue about the differences between what is "book correct" and what you see here. This is something that at it's[sic] basic conception says that ALL the Book Correct labels are subject to revision to "what the class actually is."

The apparent resistance to published errata makes sense; the more corrections out there the less a subjective preference is able to make a similar claim. The reason why that thread was decried as worse than useless is that everyone else posts under the conceit that our mutual frame of reference begins not with one person's point of view, but the published rules. That you would do so while pretending this bait and switch is in keeping with your signature drags down the discourse. That you would do so repeatedly in threads began by new posters is an insult to the community.

Note: I know I am not wrong in what I say even though you think I am wrong. Ages ago in a far different time someone pointed out to me a passage of text that was published post-RUE that says to use the PF changing class rules found in the High seas book for the changing class rules of rifts.
As the location of this text is lost to me at the moment the request for citation would be fore nought. I can just tell you I have seen it.

That you would base an aspect of your deceit on an apocryphal passage when there are people whom buy indexable .pdf files as soon as they come out is delusional.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Note: Please do not argue about the differences between what is "book correct" and what you see here. This is something that at it's[sic] basic conception says that ALL the Book Correct labels are subject to revision to "what the class actually is."

Context of the above quote:
This quote was for a posting that in the first paragraphs saying that the listings I was giving was based on the character class text described the class as. And not as what the ""Official"" labeling was. And there were several that Ignored this statement and 8!₸¢h€₫ that what I was posting was not the official labels even though I told everyone what I was doing to start off with.
As it turned out I was correct about PB ending up changing a bunch of the wrong labels...just look at the the differences between the RMB and RUE.

To give a RMB example: I listed the Mind Melter as PCC instead of a rcc. There by correcting the implication that the powers were race based instead of just being a class being based around the character's psionic powers.

It asked about Dragons and having classes. And since dragons only start out with their egg knowledge.
I gave the published canon reasons why I would house rule them as having them DND multi-class chars.

As I said to FG I was setting up the reasons WHY I would House Rule a Dragon's class divisions.
That you don't like me pointing out that there are no "Published Official Class Changing Rules" for Rifts and that the only "Published Official Class Changing Rules" are in a PF2 gamebook is not my problem.

And Yes I did mention the Class Changing Rules that have been posted on the PB site. They have yet to be Published, so they can't be anything but optional. If you are so annoyed at them Not Being Published direct your ire at PB and to get them off their bums to get them published. They have corrected their errors in a next printing or a followup book before, so they can do it.

Yes, I have seen the text where it says to use the Class Changing Rules in the PF2 gamebook the highness for rifts. I remembered the important part. That it is in some book that was published between the 1st printing of RUE and 2015 is the time frame to look in. I don't have my rifts books anymore. As a result I can't search for it.

[Curbludgeon]

I've been on a list making streak lately, and while I haven't found any more dragons proper have a decent amount of dragon adjacent entries to incorporate. This time will involve Sea Serpents, and I hope to have cousins, draconic humanoids, pseudo-dragons, and deceptively labeled non-dragons ready for future updates!

Spoiler:

I listed the Mind Melter as PCC instead of a rcc. There by correcting the implication...

You are not an employee of Palladium Books, and therefore are unable to issue any form of correction. Similarly, you are not in a position to define to what standard any corrections issued must adhere. It was not by dint of being printed in a semi-pro zine that the errata found in the Rifter was deemed official, but was instead by being labeled as such by the publisher. So it is with the errata published by Palladium Books on the company website, it being the most efficacious method of distribution. That the arbitary hoops you feel inexplicably entitled to set haven't been jumped through doesn't invalidate that errata's official status. It simply demonstrates that your opinion of the errata is irrelevant.

I have seen the text where it says to use the Class Changing Rules in the PF2 gamebook the highness for rifts. I remembered the important part. That it is in some book that was published between the 1st printing of RUE and 2015 is the time frame to look in. I don't have my rifts books anymore. As a result I can't search for it.

Oh, I already did. Between me and my friends who won't touch this forum we've bought .pdfs of most things, and I asked for some help on this.

References outside the Fantasy line to PFRPG Book 3: Adventures on the High Seas (excluding ads/order forms) consist of:
HUGMG pg 154 (necromancy)
AUGG pg 30 (necromancy and shaman magic)
WB2 pg 155 see below
WB6 pg 138 (Grimbor), 160, 165 (Black Ships)
WB21 pg 190 see below
Rifter 4 pg 27, 30 (epic campaign description)
Rifter 15 pg 18 ("will cover sea journeys")
Rifter 22 pg 53 (firefighting)
Rifter 24 pg 69 (Fleet Feet spell)
Rifter 25 pg 19 (Castaway/Shipwreck Survival skill)
Rifter 31 pg 32, 36 (wearing armor while overboard, Church of Light)
Rifter 38 pg 46 (Isle of the Cyclops)
Rifter 40 pg 16, 36 (Shaman)
Rifter 40 pg 29 (Multiple O.C.C.s, in reference to the Optional PFRPG Wild Man class)
Rifter 45 pg 38 (Juggler O.C.C.)
Rifter 64 pg 57 (Shaman)
Rifter 71-72 pg 59 (ships)
Rifter 78 pg 80, 83 (necromancy)
Rifter 79 pg 38 (ship to ship combat)
Rifter 80 pg 40 (Tumbling)
Rifter 82 pg 7, 33 (Erick Wujcik)

Here is a quote of the reference in WB2: Atlantis. WB21's quote is nearly verbatim, only removing the '16'.
Adventures on the High Seas, for the Palladium RPG , has a wonderful 16 page section on various types of sailing ships, complete with illustrations, sailing rules, and ship to ship combat. This book also has sailor and pirate O.C.C.s, magic items, alchemist items, magic curses, and lots of other good stuff. Take a look at it.

Nothing has been presented to support your claim. No one has posted in support of your claim. ECREE.
Also, masking obscenity might not be against the forum rules, but it ain't family friendly, you silly goose.

[Axelmania]

I listed the Mind Melter as PCC instead of a rcc.
There by correcting the implication that the powers were race based
instead of just being a class being based around the character's psionic powers.

*rechecks RMB*

pg 97 "skills and orientation based on racial characteristics and unusual powers rather than a typical human occupation."

That part seems fine because you could view "capacity to have psychic abilities" as a "racial characteristic".

The problem is moreso the next part: "The R.C.C.s are non-human beings"

Pg 101 is "Psychic Racial Character Classes" (continuity of phrase muddled by difference in font size, new line, and abbreviation as "R.C.C." rather than "P.R.C.C.")

"both human and non-human, possess psionic powers" clearly disagrees with the idea that psychic = non human too...

Pg 102 however has CS promote that "convincing normal humans that all psychics are not "true" humans, but a mutation" in agreement with 97's "are non-human beings" bit.

One thing I still don't get is why KS sticks to the CS treating minor/major differently. They have the same saving throw, same limitation to fully variety of lesser powers... all major really have going for them is more ISP and more selection: basically just versatility, not power.

It just seems oversimplified. I think they'd discriminate by WHICH powers the psi had, like being more critical of those who have "Object Read" or "Telepathy" or "Astral Projection", and less afraid of those with merely "Sense Evil" or "Sense Magic".

Pg 102 "the Burster O.C.C." =/

Pg 104 "a mutant" supports CS view partly (psi=mutant, not not mutant=inhuman) and "can be human, or a D-Bee, or a mutoid" seems later forgotten. They're just not a "normal human" but then neither is a cyber-knight so that's kinda meaningless. Stalkers celarly more 'abnormal' by PPE vampirism than usual though.

Pg 105 "Because of the Coalition's stand against non-humans, most of their psi-stalkers are completely human in appearance." was probably forgot too. Implies most would wear wigs and use tan lotion like in iZombie but art never seems to indicate that.

Pg 107 lumping non-human race-locked Psi-Hounds in with Bursters and Mind Melters also didn't help clarifications. Dragons also have psi, even if not master, so why so apart?

[drewkitty ~..~]

You're right I 'm not an employee of PB, and as such I am FREE to point out The Stupid Things are in the gaming system w/o risking a job. *yawns* Besides I never claimed to be a PB employee, nor did I claim what I posted in that Topic was canon. In Fact I said what I was posting Wasn't Canon. That is a slight bit more than I've seen some other posted do.

[Curbludgeon]

Nah, pointing out that unusable list thread was just to demonstrate your willingness to claim a personal opinion is intrinsically more correct than published material. This thread is for compiling a resource list of dragon-related information, and is at a distant second about how your willingness to deliberately mislead new posters is in poor taste.

The next update will be about what O.C.C.'s magic is often studied by various dragon varieties!

[drewkitty ~..~]

Nah, pointing out that unusable list thread was just to demonstrate your willingness to claim a personal opinion is intrinsically more correct than published material. This thread is for compiling a resource list of dragon-related information, and is at a distant second about how your willingness to deliberately mislead new posters is in poor taste.
...snip

What I was doing was reading the class Text of each Class, then saying how the Class Text Said what the Class was. I know I've said this concept before, several times. What I don't understand is why You brought this up and why you are trying to manufacture a 'Win' out of twisting what I said into something else.
-----
And if you are referencing this web page for the posted rules you've been talking about....
https://www.palladiumbooks.com/question ... -dual-occs
..... they were Posted for the PF2 Game.


Which still leaves the Rifts Game w/o any generalized changing class rules.

[ShadowLogan]

And if you are referencing this web page....
https://www.palladiumbooks.com/question ... -dual-occs
....for when you say that there are class Changing Rules for rifts...you are misrepresenting what those rules are.

Since they are Posted for the PF2 Game.
Not for the Rifts Game.

Except there are rules given for changing classes in Rifts, more for specific cases than a general change but they seem to follow a similar pattern that would likely carry over into a more general case.

Examples of changing class in Rifts:
-SB1o pg8-10 (in the Q&A section, not sure if its in Revised) deals with changing OCCs (to a FCB OCC)
-Bionics SB pg16 discusses rules for City Rat OCC changing OCCs
-Bionics SB pg62-3 rules for switching from an OCC to a Bionic OCC
-RMB pg70 and RUE pg80 dealing with a Juicer OCC switching out as a result of Detox (likely also found in WB10: JU)
-Tattoo Men OCCs changing to WB2 pg94
-Cosmo Knight OCCs in DB2 technically qualify as changing OCCs (though from a practical standpoint it is far more extreme)
-Nercrophim (sp) from WB12, changing to a Vampire in WB1, and Sea Inquisitor in WB7 also qualify as changing OCC (though handle it differently)

[Curbludgeon]

The notion of unofficial errata is an oxymoron. The Dual O.C.C. official errata published by PB on their website, which they labeled as errata without qualifer or equivocation, is under the subheading for Palladium Fantasy 2nd Edition. The errata also contains sections left out of other books, whether accidentally or not, which similarly to subsequently printed sections such as Rifter 58's Lemurian O.C.C.s, are also official.

As tautologically official errata the Dual O.C.C. errata supercedes the previous Multiple O.C.C. description in PFRPG3:Adventures on the High Seas. Even in the circumstance of a strictly Palladium Fantasy game telling someone the only published rules are found in High Seas would be deceptive.

I have never claimed that Rifts uses the PFRPG Dual O.C.C. Official Errata. Such is suggested in the F.A.Q., but that, unlike the errata, isn't official. There are a number of Rifts O.C.C.-specific class changing rules detailed. There are also a number of NPCs listed as having the equivalent of multiple classes, e.g. WB2 pg 67, which don't outright state they've changed O.C.C..

While a given Rifts game might choose how they would handle changing O.C.C. outside of the specific examples detailed above, that would be a house rule. To suggest one use a rule for another game, whether the originally published rule or the published errata which superceded it, would also be a house rule. To claim the superceded rule is the only rule is deceptive, and to do so to those not wise to that deception is unethical.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And if you are referencing this web page....
https://www.palladiumbooks.com/question ... -dual-occs
....for when you say that there are class Changing Rules for rifts...you are misrepresenting what those rules are.

Since they are Posted for the PF2 Game.
Not for the Rifts Game.

Except there are rules given for changing classes in Rifts, more for specific cases than a general change but they seem to follow a similar pattern that would likely carry over into a more general case.

Examples of changing class in Rifts:
-SB1o pg8-10 (in the Q&A section, not sure if its in Revised) deals with changing OCCs (to a FCB OCC)
-Bionics SB pg16 discusses rules for City Rat OCC changing OCCs
-Bionics SB pg62-3 rules for switching from an OCC to a Bionic OCC
-RMB pg70 and RUE pg80 dealing with a Juicer OCC switching out as a result of Detox (likely also found in WB10: JU)
-Tattoo Men OCCs changing to WB2 pg94
-Cosmo Knight OCCs in DB2 technically qualify as changing OCCs (though from a practical standpoint it is far more extreme)
-Nercrophim (sp) from WB12, changing to a Vampire in WB1, and Sea Inquisitor in WB7 also qualify as changing OCC (though handle it differently)

SL I am glad you know about the specific 'to such and such class' class changing rules but you are ignoring the part where what Curb. and I have been going back and forth about are the Generalized Changing class rules. (the published ones in the PF2 High Seas book and the ones posted in the PF cutting room floor section.) Your lateness to the discussion (like in just reading the latest posts) may have not informed you about this?


Since both of us already know about the specific class class changing rules and have not brought them up don't you think that both sides are treating them as stipulated and there is nothing to post anything about them.

Now do you have anything to post about the generalized changing class rules (After reading the topic as a whole) ether the Published ones or the posted ones? Feel free to argue....discuss them with Curb. if he feels there is something to argue with your about.
-------------------
That that page is posted as a PF2 Game posting has every bearing on your stance that they are official for the Rifts Game. Since it is the GM who has to import anything from outside the Game being played. (This is called making a House Rule for 'Their Game'.)

In this I am follow what is literally what Rifts Canon says....

To quote the Rifts Conversion Book 1r page 7

"These other worlds are not an official part of the Rifts game setting and are stand-alone games that all use the same basic set of RPG rules."

Fair the well with each other, if you continue posting about the changing class rules posted or published.
----------

Since Rifts has no changing class rules that cover Dragons and has not specific rules that cover dragons using an OCC (I might point out that these are not in the PF rules ether).... My house rule is to treat them similarly to the D&D multi-classing where the dragon EXP and OCC exp. are sept track of separately.

Since the why has been discussed extensively there is no point about ""discussing"" this any further.

[Axelmania]

I am follow what is literally what Rifts Canon says....

To quote the Rifts Conversion Book 1r page 7

"These other worlds are not an official part of the Rifts game setting and are stand-alone games that all use the same basic set of RPG rules."

So they use the same basic set of RPG rules, including how to change OCCs?

Obviously the "Rifts game setting" is Rifts Earth and other dimensions are different settings.

That even applies to the 'Rifts Dimension Books'.

Thus 'other worlds'.

I'd apply that to Mars if using Mutants in Orbit too.

Even Psyscape's astral realm (ie Psi World) is technically a world apart from Rifts Earth and thus outside the 'Rifts game setting' even though it's linked to it via a World Book (as is City of Brass in FoM, as are the Native American spirit realms in Spirit West, as is the deific plane the Egyptian Gods from Rifts Africa live in, etc)

There are dimensions linked to multiple games (pantheon of light and dark, dyval, hades) namely PF/Rifts, while each also has dimensions which are primarily settings associated with them (Northern Gods in PF, Norse Gods in Rifts for example) but still outside the "game setting" which is a single world in both cases: Palladium World and Rifts Earth.

[Rifter_GM]

Welcome, new poster!

It isn't so much that the Chiang-Ku gets an O.C.C., but gets access to spells and limited skills from an O.C.C.. Most other hatchlings are similarly able to learn spells from one or more traditions, and while several give examples of what's common among that species traditions aren't explicitly banned, save for exclusive things like tattoo magic. I'll start putting together a list, and maybe other posters can chime in with examples I've missed!

Palladium Fantasy: Dragons and Gods (most of these are found in Rifts Conversion Book 1 (not the revised edition) or CB1, and several are in the Rifts Main Book, or RMB)
Basilisk
Chiang-Ku Dragon
Cockatrice (no magic)
Fire Dragon
Great Horned Dragon
Hydra (5 spells known only)
Ice Dragon
Kukulcan (intuitively knows air elemental spells, can learn others)
Lo-Dox Dragon (intuitively knows water elemental spells, small chance of knowing others)
Night Stalker Dragon (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Serpent of the Wind (intuitively knows air elemental spells, can learn others)
Thunder Lizard (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Ultucan Dragon (intuitively knows low level invocation, can learn others)
Wooly Dragon (no magic)

Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE)
Cat's Eye Dragon
Flame Wind Dragon
Forest Runner
Royal Frilled Dragon
Snow Lizard
Whip-Tailed Dragon

Rifts World Book 8: Japan (WB8)
Shikome Kido-Mi
Kumo Mi
Asama-Tatsu

Rifts World Book 12: Psyscape (WB12)
Zaayr Crystal Dragon (strictly limited spell selection)

Rifts World Book 20: Canada (WB20)
Ogopogo

Rifts World Book 30: Lemuria (WB32)
Ghost Dragon
Hydros Dragon
Octo Dragon
Sand Dragon

Palladium Fantasy Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands
Sandwyrm

Palladium Fantasy Book 16: Byzantium and the Northern Islands
Winterserpent

Rifter 73
Triumvirate Dragon

Sea Serpents (which are often confused with dragons)

Monsters and Animals
Horned Ramrod
Snaggle Tooth Gobbler
Viper Serpent

Palladium Fantasy Book 16: Byzantium and the Northern Islands
Jormund Serpent
Northern Straggler

Rifts World Book 1: Vampire Kingdoms (WB1)
Agenor River Serpent

Rifts World Book 32: Lemuria (WB32)
Shadow Serpent
Tiger Serpent

Unofficial Sea Serpents

Rifter 57
Horn Worm (this one's more of an Earth Serpent)
Sisiutl Sea Serpent

Rifter 66
Jonah the Sea Dragon (from Splicers)

Nice list.