Great characters you've never played

[Mack]

As the title says, here's a discussion dedicated to great character ideas you've had but never had the opportunity to use.

Here's one that's bounced around my head for several years...

A Cyber-Knight with a partial bionic reconstruction, currently working as a merc. The backstory is that he was a young, energetic knight who ran afoul an ill-tempered Rhino-Buffalo and was mauled. His friends managed to save his life, but only barely. Facing a life as an invalid, he sold what little he had and took out a loan from a Merc-Town broker to pay for the conversion. He's now a freelance mercenary, bouncing from job to job, company to company, to pay off his debt. And while he doesn't hide his CK background, neither does he advertise it. Largely, he focuses on doing an honest job for honest pay, and avoids messy jobs that would violate his CK ethics.

Mechanically, I'd bend the rules and not change his class to that of a cyborg or Headhunter. Slap an XP penalty on him while he adjusts to his new life. Inflict the partial reconstruction penalties to his psychic abilities (ISP cut in half). The Cyber-Armor (now only on his chest) would regenerate at only 1/4 the original rate (GM call on that). He'd still have his Psi-Sword, but would be reluctant to ever use it.

Mentally, he be struggling to find his place, and struggling to come to terms with his new reality. Depending on the game's campaign, he might either embrace the mercenary life or become dedicated to returning to the CK community.

[Fenris2020]

I always wanted to play a CS Special Forces, but logically couldn't do so in the gaming groups I've been in; there's virtually no chance one would "go rogue against the CS", and I'm not into betraying a party (I don't consider that kind of game especially fun).

[Curbludgeon]

I suppose things I'd like to play but haven't can get divided into two groups: neat creative/educational opportunities, and wackygonuts stuff. I'll try to give a couple examples of each.

Incorporating a GM's expertise in a subject of which I'm ignorant can often be fun, usually moreso with cultural familiarity than technical specifics. An example would be to play a character in the Chinese Yama Hell where there are frequent radical changes in the style of government to which people are expected to adapt, as a backdrop to picking up some Mandarin while doing sendups of dystopian fiction at breakneck speed.

Something I've messed with in the past but would like to do again is a Rogue Scholar interested in cultural artifacts from our pre-Cataclysm future, as pretense to make stuff up. Maybe there was a trend in the 2080's where the VR Deseret Made Manifest of the Latest Day Saints splinter group is ironically paired with Brazilian Frevo Novo music and Congolese retro-pharms, or there was a scandal in the 50's when the IncluScouts changed the Pioneering merit badge requirements to allow Kinbaku demonstrations. Sure, teaching D-Bees in the Burbs how to read is important, but the Golden Age was nuts!

As far as silly stuff, I wanna play a former Tao Shih that gives up on the traditional route to immortality in lieu of learning every spell by giving Scrolls of Create Magic Scroll and PPE batteries to compelled Id Alter Egos of other casters. If I ever write up my one-shot idea for the Sevenfold Synergistic Sacrifice Soulengine, the over-the-top NPC I'd want to take it down is an Auto-G Gun Master impersonating a Malvoren and using Drunken Boxing.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Human (appearing) Demi-God

Son of Isis (perhaps as Katrina Sun? Africa doesn't go into how long she's been cursed, might have been long enough to produce a son while she thought she was mortal)

Special Power related to Parent: Natural Dimensional Traveler - can always flawlessly Dimensionally Teleport "home" or to any Dimensional Beacon to which he is attuned (like Cleopatra's Needle in Madhaven, the only one to which he is currently attuned).

OCC: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Godling Power - Magic: Shifter

- Raised by the Mystic Knights as a favor to Isis.
- Only a few know who his mother is. Even he doesn't know (even that its a god, just that it was something supernatural, obviously, which gives him his supernatural attributes)
- might have the Shifter pact with Isis. (GMs choice). In his mind, its because she's the psuedo-patroness/ally of the White Rose

[HWalsh]

Human (appearing) Demi-God

Son of Isis (perhaps as Katrina Sun? Africa doesn't go into how long she's been cursed, might have been long enough to produce a son while she thought she was mortal)

Special Power related to Parent: Natural Dimensional Traveler - can always flawlessly Dimensionally Teleport "home" or to any Dimensional Beacon to which he is attuned (like Cleopatra's Needle in Madhaven, the only one to which he is currently attuned).

OCC: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Godling Power - Magic: Shifter

- Raised by the Mystic Knights as a favor to Isis.
- Only a few know who his mother is. Even he doesn't know (even that its a god, just that it was something supernatural, obviously, which gives him his supernatural attributes)
- might have the Shifter pact with Isis. (GMs choice). In his mind, its because she's the psuedo-patroness/ally of the White Rose

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

[drewkitty ~..~]

a failed TAUS where the last Tat before coming MDC failed and made him an immortal. Then he did some time (read veteran grunt) then was to be the house keeper for a Hero team but got cancelled before the game start.

[Warshield73]

Ever since HS I have mostly been the GM but in one of the early campaigns I was going to co-GM a campaign with a friend of mine. He was going to do half and I was doing half. I created a really great Dog-boy from RMB that I enjoyed playing and wanted to keep playing but the other GM bailed after running just one session.

In addition I always wanted to play a Cyber-Knight especially now with the robot riding animals. I am currently creating a Squib Cyber-Knight as pre-gen for convention games and I would love to play him in a few games.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Human (appearing) Demi-God

Son of Isis (perhaps as Katrina Sun? Africa doesn't go into how long she's been cursed, might have been long enough to produce a son while she thought she was mortal)

Special Power related to Parent: Natural Dimensional Traveler - can always flawlessly Dimensionally Teleport "home" or to any Dimensional Beacon to which he is attuned (like Cleopatra's Needle in Madhaven, the only one to which he is currently attuned).

OCC: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Godling Power - Magic: Shifter

- Raised by the Mystic Knights as a favor to Isis.
- Only a few know who his mother is. Even he doesn't know (even that its a god, just that it was something supernatural, obviously, which gives him his supernatural attributes)
- might have the Shifter pact with Isis. (GMs choice). In his mind, its because she's the psuedo-patroness/ally of the White Rose

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

Not nearly as bad as it could be. But its also the kind of character that wouldn't glory-hog anyway.

If i played him, i'd very deliberately not steal the groups thunder.

Its main benefit is that it shores up the only two weaknesses Mystic Knights have as spellcasters, which is terrible spell selection/diversity and low PPE. The Godling Magic power gives him all spells equal to his current level (regardless of anything else), and Shifter lets him learn spells of other levels whenever he wants (and gives VERY early access (2nd level) to Energy Sphere and other spells that help with PPE management), and provides a higher PPE base.

Basically, though, i'd just run him as a Mystic Knight with a better spell selection.

As for being naturally MDC, its hardly the only option for playing an MDC Mystic Knight.

IMO, itd actually be worse if you took the Master Psionic choice. Because then you're a Mystic Knight + Mind Melter level psychic.

[HWalsh]

Human (appearing) Demi-God

Son of Isis (perhaps as Katrina Sun? Africa doesn't go into how long she's been cursed, might have been long enough to produce a son while she thought she was mortal)

Special Power related to Parent: Natural Dimensional Traveler - can always flawlessly Dimensionally Teleport "home" or to any Dimensional Beacon to which he is attuned (like Cleopatra's Needle in Madhaven, the only one to which he is currently attuned).

OCC: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Godling Power - Magic: Shifter

- Raised by the Mystic Knights as a favor to Isis.
- Only a few know who his mother is. Even he doesn't know (even that its a god, just that it was something supernatural, obviously, which gives him his supernatural attributes)
- might have the Shifter pact with Isis. (GMs choice). In his mind, its because she's the psuedo-patroness/ally of the White Rose

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

Not nearly as bad as it could be. But its also the kind of character that wouldn't glory-hog anyway.

If i played him, i'd very deliberately not steal the groups thunder.

Its main benefit is that it shores up the only two weaknesses Mystic Knights have as spellcasters, which is terrible spell selection/diversity and low PPE. The Godling Magic power gives him all spells equal to his current level (regardless of anything else), and Shifter lets him learn spells of other levels whenever he wants (and gives VERY early access (2nd level) to Energy Sphere and other spells that help with PPE management), and provides a higher PPE base.

Basically, though, i'd just run him as a Mystic Knight with a better spell selection.

As for being naturally MDC, its hardly the only option for playing an MDC Mystic Knight.

IMO, itd actually be worse if you took the Master Psionic choice. Because then you're a Mystic Knight + Mind Melter level psychic.

I think the problem with, "Won't steal the PCs thunder" is an issue in and of itself though. As is "I'm bypassing my character's one weakness."

So, here is an example from a non-Palladium game to illustrate my point. The is one I play in every Monday.

I play Paragon, a, well - Paragon.

Traditional flying brick type.

I'm really good at squeezing every point i can out.

I wanted to make a mega hero, and so after making sure everyone was cool with it, I went all out.

So...

Paragon is beefy. If other characters are fast? He's faster.
If other characters can lift heavy things? He lifts more.
He's got super senses, energy blasts capable of doing the same damage as everyone else, redundancy powers to shore up his weaknesses, etc.

I don't try to steal the show.

What I have done though is caused "Paragon syndrome"

Namely, the one or two times the group has been laid low I take off my own limiters and usually crush the enemy in seconds. I always could do that, but I was holding back.

This annoyed the other players eventually, even though I checked with them before I did it.

Why?

Because Paragon *is* better.

If it is realistically a threat to Paragon it is beyond the other characters.

There is no danger if he's around, because he's got it covered if things go south.

The GM has to create situations where Paragon isn't there to create tension. Even then, he can cross the planet in a single action to return to the party.

The group is okay with it now, because the GM throws in "anti-Paragon" measures now and again and we nerfed him. They've gotten into the idea of having Superman around as 2nd the RP is good.

At first though? It grated people's nerves.

If you aren't stealing thunder intentionally that's all well and good, but that also sends the message that, "I'm allowing you to shine." "My character is holding back to make you feel useful."

It is literally patronizing the other players/characters.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

There's a difference between the player not stealing the thunder of the other players, and the character holding back for no reason.

Im not suggesting the latter.

Im suggesting the former.

Just because i CAN learn spells whenever i want, i dont. Just because i COULD buy a TW Deathbringer, doesn't mean i will. Etc. Maybe i give the millions of credits to charity instead (which fits the character).

Its something that every player should be capable of doing, particularly in Rifts, where power between individual party members could vary drastically even in a "typical" power spread and you need to give everyone a chance to do their thing.

I.E. dont be a jackwagon.

Also, it doesn't remove his only weakness. It removes his weakness as a spellcaster. He's still got plenty of other weaknesses as a Mystic Knight, even an MDC one. Getting ranged by high-tech slugthrowers will still turn him into paste pretty fast. A couple of guys set up in a Railgun emplacement can kill him no problem. He's soft-countered by other characters who are tough and/or good in a melee. (As unless he gets lots of time to prepare buff spells, a high-SN PS bad guy or one armed with something dangerous like a Lightbade, Rune Weapon, or the aforementioned Deathbringer can carve through ~200 MDC pretty fast).

It just means that if the party needs, he can be a full-fledged spellcaster if no one else wants to play one and has some more PPE to play with than most Mystic Knights.

I also wouldn't play this guy in a party full of Normies; if we're playing a ... i hesitate to use "low power" - but, low-end campaign where everyone is an on-foot type of character with MDC on the lowish end of the scale, i'd stick to something that would cause less potential issues for the GM balance wise.

Edit: there are RUE characters that are just as beefy - take a look at the absurdity that is the Royal Frilled Dragon some day.

Uo to 600 MDC, +3D6 MD in melee from claws, full (learned) spellcasters, and master psionics. I had never really read through them completely until recently because i disliked the weeb-inspired designs and Kevin's bad reason for changing away from the originals. I did something of a triple take at how powerful the RFD is.

[Mack]

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

While I like your choice of "beefy," let's not get preoccupied critiquing others. That's a character that would require a bit different approach by the GM and other players, but this topic is to explore what we'd like to give a whirl.

So, HWalsh, what's on your wish list?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

While I like your choice of "beefy," let's not get preoccupied critiquing others. That's a character that would require a bit different approach by the GM and other players, but this topic is to explore what we'd like to give a whirl.

So, HWalsh, what's on your wish list?

I dont mind the appelation.

There's no doubt its a tougher than average character.

[HWalsh]

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

While I like your choice of "beefy," let's not get preoccupied critiquing others. That's a character that would require a bit different approach by the GM and other players, but this topic is to explore what we'd like to give a whirl.

So, HWalsh, what's on your wish list?

Honestly? My wish list is for a true basic party. Everyone playing "normies" as it were. You know, a basic RUE party. Every game I seem to find has people so high on the power end that trying to play anything basic is so ridiculously outclassed it is ridiculous.

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

[Blue_Lion]

Demigod priest, godling power was shape-shifting i believe.
He worshiped his father Oden even though doing so is not a good idea.

[thorr-kan]

"Schofield, Roberto. Chief Warrant Officer (retired). LS-867-5309."

Old RMB CS Technical Officer with the "Insatiable Desire To Learn" special ability from Lone Star and an old RMB major psychic with Psi-Battalion training (Psyscape), AMRS Training (Black Vault), and CQC AT (Heroes of Humanity). It plays merry Hell with your skill selections, but it's entertaining from a creation standpoint.

Of course, he's retired and living as a merc somewhere right now, so he'd fit into a North America campaign with limited modification.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

That seems a bit... How do I say it... Beefy.

While I like your choice of "beefy," let's not get preoccupied critiquing others. That's a character that would require a bit different approach by the GM and other players, but this topic is to explore what we'd like to give a whirl.

So, HWalsh, what's on your wish list?

Honestly? My wish list is for a true basic party. Everyone playing "normies" as it were. You know, a basic RUE party. Every game I seem to find has people so high on the power end that trying to play anything basic is so ridiculously outclassed it is ridiculous.

I tend to have the same... prejudice? That doesn't seem like the right word. But the number ive times ive sat down at a table to see characters of extreme power and improbability (oh, 3 attributes over 24 and 2 over 20? seems legit) has sometimes driven me to want to tear my hair out. Though, a basic RUE part could have a Royal Frilled Dragon in it, and those guys are crazy go nuts. =P

I agree with the basic sentiment.

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

Somewhat ironically, unless playing in Europe as part of the NGR military, this wasn't even really all that feasible until very recently (with NG 1/2). It was something i noticed when going through books for my "weird finds" thread. I noticed that there really weren't that many PAs out there.

It could be fun, though, now that there's some variety.

[Warshield73]

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

Somewhat ironically, unless playing in Europe as part of the NGR military, this wasn't even really all that feasible until very recently (with NG 1/2). It was something i noticed when going through books for my "weird finds" thread. I noticed that there really weren't that many PAs out there.

It could be fun, though, now that there's some variety.

Agreed. Even after the original SB1 there wasn't that much variety of PAs to be had but I would say by the time of WB 7 you could have a character with a mix of reasonably available PAs that could function in air, land and even sea that it could be fun to play a character like this.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

Somewhat ironically, unless playing in Europe as part of the NGR military, this wasn't even really all that feasible until very recently (with NG 1/2). It was something i noticed when going through books for my "weird finds" thread. I noticed that there really weren't that many PAs out there.

It could be fun, though, now that there's some variety.

Agreed. Even after the original SB1 there wasn't that much variety of PAs to be had but I would say by the time of WB 7 you could have a character with a mix of reasonably available PAs that could function in air, land and even sea that it could be fun to play a character like this.

Only if you somehow had access to not-for-sale-to-the-public (or available to people at all) models from the New Navy and Triax, and potentially Atlantis.

For purely NA + available on the market, you were (realistically) limited to like:

NG Samson
Flying Titan
SAMAS (Original; there are enough of these on the Black Market to be available, and for whatever reason, the CS seems OK with non-CS entities having them)
Terrain Hopper (Civilian, not that there's a TON of difference between the two)
Glitter Boy (and unlikely to get one unless you were actually that Class)
Naruni PA (dont remember the name.. Mecha Knight or something?) but this makes you KOS a lot of places.
NG Gladius (not really a PA)
Ulti-Max (which i almost forgot because its basically a Robot)

Until Juicer Uprising, which added the two Anti-Juicer armors (Juicer Killer and Jucier Aprehension whatsits), and then New West added Bandito SAMs (which are KOS lots of places)

WB11 added six PAs, all CS-exclusive and make you KOS in CS territory and "officially" Persona Non Grata in NG and MI (since they are Allies) - but you could probably get away with it as long as you kept it under a tarp and didnt make the autorities have to notice.
Mauler
Terror Trooper
Smiling Jack SAM
Super SAM
Striker SAM
GB Killer.

Lone Star added one (the Flying Wing), that, again, would make you KOS in CS territory.

Then pretty much nothing until Free Quebec, with the new GBs, Violator SAM, and Sidekick (as well as the.. Power Trooper?).. but those are all exclusive to FQ military, and FQ will certainly kill you on sight if you have one, and after the end of the war, the CS would likely reciprocate.

Then... nothing until Arzno/Merc Ops (which came out around the same time IIRC) & then the NG books.

So, for a decent bit of Rifts' existence, you were practically limited in the NA setting to between 7 and 9 PAs, with only two fliers (Flying Titan and Old School SAM), and the majority of the rest being ground-pounder types with little diversity or anything in the way of special abilities to distinguish them outside of moar armor and/or guns.

Now, GMs can of course make exceptions/situations for you to get your hands on something special at their whim; but HWalsh explicitly expressed the desire to play an "average joe"/"basic RUE" character which, IMO excludes the exotic options like "I somehow got my hands on Serpent Armor, a SemperFi, and Samurai SAM" and probably excludes the Naruni PA for the not-getting-aced-by-the-CS practicality as well. Doesn't leave you a lot of options.

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Edit: I forgot Spirit West, which added a few PAs -

The USA SAM (why was the US using this and not the Silver Eagle... anyway...)
War Chief (a shabby SAM knockoff)
Iron Bear

You could.. theoretically without TOO much stretching get a War Chief or Iron Bear as a reward for being friends with the natives. They dont give away the USA SAM to anyone, though, and the CS will ABSOLUTELY murderface you if you have one.

Still, limited choices.

[HWalsh]

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

Somewhat ironically, unless playing in Europe as part of the NGR military, this wasn't even really all that feasible until very recently (with NG 1/2). It was something i noticed when going through books for my "weird finds" thread. I noticed that there really weren't that many PAs out there.

It could be fun, though, now that there's some variety.

Agreed. Even after the original SB1 there wasn't that much variety of PAs to be had but I would say by the time of WB 7 you could have a character with a mix of reasonably available PAs that could function in air, land and even sea that it could be fun to play a character like this.

Only if you somehow had access to not-for-sale-to-the-public (or available to people at all) models from the New Navy and Triax, and potentially Atlantis.

For purely NA + available on the market, you were (realistically) limited to like:

NG Samson
Flying Titan
SAMAS (Original; there are enough of these on the Black Market to be available, and for whatever reason, the CS seems OK with non-CS entities having them)
Terrain Hopper (Civilian, not that there's a TON of difference between the two)
Glitter Boy (and unlikely to get one unless you were actually that Class)
Naruni PA (dont remember the name.. Mecha Knight or something?) but this makes you KOS a lot of places.
NG Gladius (not really a PA)
Ulti-Max (which i almost forgot because its basically a Robot)

Until Juicer Uprising, which added the two Anti-Juicer armors (Juicer Killer and Jucier Aprehension whatsits), and then New West added Bandito SAMs (which are KOS lots of places)

WB11 added six PAs, all CS-exclusive and make you KOS in CS territory and "officially" Persona Non Grata in NG and MI (since they are Allies) - but you could probably get away with it as long as you kept it under a tarp and didnt make the autorities have to notice.
Mauler
Terror Trooper
Smiling Jack SAM
Super SAM
Striker SAM
GB Killer.

Lone Star added one (the Flying Wing), that, again, would make you KOS in CS territory.

Then pretty much nothing until Free Quebec, with the new GBs, Violator SAM, and Sidekick (as well as the.. Power Trooper?).. but those are all exclusive to FQ military, and FQ will certainly kill you on sight if you have one, and after the end of the war, the CS would likely reciprocate.

Then... nothing until Arzno/Merc Ops (which came out around the same time IIRC) & then the NG books.

So, for a decent bit of Rifts' existence, you were practically limited in the NA setting to between 7 and 9 PAs, with only two fliers (Flying Titan and Old School SAM), and the majority of the rest being ground-pounder types with little diversity or anything in the way of special abilities to distinguish them outside of moar armor and/or guns.

Now, GMs can of course make exceptions/situations for you to get your hands on something special at their whim; but HWalsh explicitly expressed the desire to play an "average joe"/"basic RUE" character which, IMO excludes the exotic options like "I somehow got my hands on Serpent Armor, a SemperFi, and Samurai SAM" and probably excludes the Naruni PA for the not-getting-aced-by-the-CS practicality as well. Doesn't leave you a lot of options.

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Edit: I forgot Spirit West, which added a few PAs -

The USA SAM (why was the US using this and not the Silver Eagle... anyway...)
War Chief (a shabby SAM knockoff)
Iron Bear

You could.. theoretically without TOO much stretching get a War Chief or Iron Bear as a reward for being friends with the natives. They dont give away the USA SAM to anyone, though, and the CS will ABSOLUTELY murderface you if you have one.

Still, limited choices.

Don't forget the Northern Gun books. They added a LOT of good options for the US.

[Fenris2020]

I'd really like, one day, to play a PA pilot. Like s PA pilot with a bunch of different PAs for different situations.

Somewhat ironically, unless playing in Europe as part of the NGR military, this wasn't even really all that feasible until very recently (with NG 1/2). It was something i noticed when going through books for my "weird finds" thread. I noticed that there really weren't that many PAs out there.

It could be fun, though, now that there's some variety.

Agreed. Even after the original SB1 there wasn't that much variety of PAs to be had but I would say by the time of WB 7 you could have a character with a mix of reasonably available PAs that could function in air, land and even sea that it could be fun to play a character like this.

Only if you somehow had access to not-for-sale-to-the-public (or available to people at all) models from the New Navy and Triax, and potentially Atlantis.

For purely NA + available on the market, you were (realistically) limited to like:

NG Samson
Flying Titan
SAMAS (Original; there are enough of these on the Black Market to be available, and for whatever reason, the CS seems OK with non-CS entities having them)
Terrain Hopper (Civilian, not that there's a TON of difference between the two)
Glitter Boy (and unlikely to get one unless you were actually that Class)
Naruni PA (dont remember the name.. Mecha Knight or something?) but this makes you KOS a lot of places.
NG Gladius (not really a PA)
Ulti-Max (which i almost forgot because its basically a Robot)

Until Juicer Uprising, which added the two Anti-Juicer armors (Juicer Killer and Jucier Aprehension whatsits), and then New West added Bandito SAMs (which are KOS lots of places)

WB11 added six PAs, all CS-exclusive and make you KOS in CS territory and "officially" Persona Non Grata in NG and MI (since they are Allies) - but you could probably get away with it as long as you kept it under a tarp and didnt make the autorities have to notice.
Mauler
Terror Trooper
Smiling Jack SAM
Super SAM
Striker SAM
GB Killer.

Lone Star added one (the Flying Wing), that, again, would make you KOS in CS territory.

Then pretty much nothing until Free Quebec, with the new GBs, Violator SAM, and Sidekick (as well as the.. Power Trooper?).. but those are all exclusive to FQ military, and FQ will certainly kill you on sight if you have one, and after the end of the war, the CS would likely reciprocate.

Then... nothing until Arzno/Merc Ops (which came out around the same time IIRC) & then the NG books.

So, for a decent bit of Rifts' existence, you were practically limited in the NA setting to between 7 and 9 PAs, with only two fliers (Flying Titan and Old School SAM), and the majority of the rest being ground-pounder types with little diversity or anything in the way of special abilities to distinguish them outside of moar armor and/or guns.

Now, GMs can of course make exceptions/situations for you to get your hands on something special at their whim; but HWalsh explicitly expressed the desire to play an "average joe"/"basic RUE" character which, IMO excludes the exotic options like "I somehow got my hands on Serpent Armor, a SemperFi, and Samurai SAM" and probably excludes the Naruni PA for the not-getting-aced-by-the-CS practicality as well. Doesn't leave you a lot of options.

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Edit: I forgot Spirit West, which added a few PAs -

The USA SAM (why was the US using this and not the Silver Eagle... anyway...)
War Chief (a shabby SAM knockoff)
Iron Bear

You could.. theoretically without TOO much stretching get a War Chief or Iron Bear as a reward for being friends with the natives. They dont give away the USA SAM to anyone, though, and the CS will ABSOLUTELY murderface you if you have one.

Still, limited choices.

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Don't forget the Northern Gun books. They added a LOT of good options for the US.

I didnt. Read above.

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.

Because they quite literally murderface you no questions asked if you have one. Theyve spent quite a bit of time and propaganda convincing everyone that the CS invented the SAM, and its clearly pointed out that anyone who got their hands on a USA SAM would immediately realize thats bunk and could likely prove it.

Its also kinda hard/nearly impossible to hide your PA if you get stopped by a CS patrol. Also, the only place to get them is from Fort Apache (not even Area-51 had the plans for the USA SAM, only the ones that they would eventually release), and they WONT give them to anyone. Also keep in mind that they didn't discover these in a cache - they were all built PA by the factory at Fort Apache, so it appears that the USA SAM was not widely out there in the world to be discovered by adventurers in a cache (maybe because it was replaced by the Silver Eagle?). So even getting one is a near impossibility.

After all, they'll kill your party for the mages

Maybe. Theyll certainly try to take him into custody to be tortured for information before he's killed, but they probably wont kill the rest of the party as long as you dont try to stop them. Which.. well, you should. Sometimes, the GM really does want you to fight that patrol. If you can kill them fast enough, you can get away before reinforcements arrive.

However, Mages are a lot easier to "hide" from a CS patrol. When you're "pulled over", the mage can simply turn invisible and walk off a couple hundred feet, and when the party is leaving they can slow down and pick him up. There are also other ways to mask mages (Mask PPE, if your mage is a minor psychic, is worth its weight in gold), like Mask PPE, Mystic Invisibility, and a few other spells that mask or hide the fact that you're a magic user (including one that just straight up makes you appear dead; 'yeah, we caught this mage snooping around, we blew him away").

and d-bees as well.

Less likely; given that like 30-40% of the 'Burbs are D-bees and the CS walks right by them on the daily. There might be certain races that are a problem and killed or captured on sight, (like a Uteni), but for the most part as long as the D-bees in question aren't magic users and comply with the stop, theyre likely to be let go with some verbal abuse (and the rest of the team catching flack for working with D-bees). And, like magic users, if a D-bee is likely to a problem, its a lot easier to conceal a single person than a suit of PA.

There's a big difference between "MIGHT kill or attack you" (as a D-bee or Magic User), and "Will murder you on sight if you have X".

Or because some of the party can read.

Eh, not so much. Its not illegal to be able to read per-se, its simply not encouraged, and they dont expect foreigners to comply. After all, a lot of people in the CS need to be able to read (Officers for one). Now, if they catch you transporting a lot of contraband (books), or teaching people to read, or educating people...

But simply knowing how to read isnt enough to get you killed, most likely not even glanced at, if they even know, somehow, that you know how to read. Which isn't a given. Barring having a Psi-bat Master Psychic with them, they cant exactly read your mind and be like "HAH, a dissident READER! FIRE AWAY BOIS!".

Mind, this was a lot less of an issue when there were still two large corridors of territory to get around the CS - before CS El Dorado was a thing, there was a several hundred mile wide corridor of "not CS territory" between Lone Star and the nearest CS holdings to the north, and you could always go NORTH around the CS through Tolkeen to get to NG/MI and from NG/MI you could get to Canada/Lazlo and points further east through lower MI without having to go through a spot where the CS might stop you.

Now... there isn't such a spot. The CS patrols the old Tolkeen corridor (ostensibly more than their own home territory as there is still an active insurgency going on here), anything further north is Xiticix territory, and now CS El Dorado closes off the southern Corridor, leaving the only way around CS territory through the Pecos Badlands.

[Fenris2020]

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Don't forget the Northern Gun books. They added a LOT of good options for the US.

I didnt. Read above.

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.

Because they quite literally murderface you no questions asked if you have one. Theyve spent quite a bit of time and propaganda convincing everyone that the CS invented the SAM, and its clearly pointed out that anyone who got their hands on a USA SAM would immediately realize thats bunk and could likely prove it.

Its also kinda hard/nearly impossible to hide your PA if you get stopped by a CS patrol. Also, the only place to get them is from Fort Apache (not even Area-51 had the plans for the USA SAM, only the ones that they would eventually release), and they WONT give them to anyone. Also keep in mind that they didn't discover these in a cache - they were all built PA by the factory at Fort Apache, so it appears that the USA SAM was not widely out there in the world to be discovered by adventurers in a cache (maybe because it was replaced by the Silver Eagle?). So even getting one is a near impossibility.

After all, they'll kill your party for the mages

Maybe. Theyll certainly try to take him into custody to be tortured for information before he's killed, but they probably wont kill the rest of the party as long as you dont try to stop them. Which.. well, you should. Sometimes, the GM really does want you to fight that patrol. If you can kill them fast enough, you can get away before reinforcements arrive.

However, Mages are a lot easier to "hide" from a CS patrol. When you're "pulled over", the mage can simply turn invisible and walk off a couple hundred feet, and when the party is leaving they can slow down and pick him up. There are also other ways to mask mages (Mask PPE, if your mage is a minor psychic, is worth its weight in gold), like Mask PPE, Mystic Invisibility, and a few other spells that mask or hide the fact that you're a magic user (including one that just straight up makes you appear dead; 'yeah, we caught this mage snooping around, we blew him away").

and d-bees as well.

Less likely; given that like 30-40% of the 'Burbs are D-bees and the CS walks right by them on the daily. There might be certain races that are a problem and killed or captured on sight, (like a Uteni), but for the most part as long as the D-bees in question aren't magic users and comply with the stop, theyre likely to be let go with some verbal abuse (and the rest of the team catching flack for working with D-bees). And, like magic users, if a D-bee is likely to a problem, its a lot easier to conceal a single person than a suit of PA.

There's a big difference between "MIGHT kill or attack you" (as a D-bee or Magic User), and "Will murder you on sight if you have X".

Or because some of the party can read.

Eh, not so much. Its not illegal to be able to read per-se, its simply not encouraged, and they dont expect foreigners to comply. After all, a lot of people in the CS need to be able to read (Officers for one). Now, if they catch you transporting a lot of contraband (books), or teaching people to read, or educating people...

But simply knowing how to read isnt enough to get you killed, most likely not even glanced at, if they even know, somehow, that you know how to read. Which isn't a given. Barring having a Psi-bat Master Psychic with them, they cant exactly read your mind and be like "HAH, a dissident READER! FIRE AWAY BOIS!".

Mind, this was a lot less of an issue when there were still two large corridors of territory to get around the CS - before CS El Dorado was a thing, there was a several hundred mile wide corridor of "not CS territory" between Lone Star and the nearest CS holdings to the north, and you could always go NORTH around the CS through Tolkeen to get to NG/MI and from NG/MI you could get to Canada/Lazlo and points further east through lower MI without having to go through a spot where the CS might stop you.

Now... there isn't such a spot. The CS patrols the old Tolkeen corridor (ostensibly more than their own home territory as there is still an active insurgency going on here), anything further north is Xiticix territory, and now CS El Dorado closes off the southern Corridor, leaving the only way around CS territory through the Pecos Badlands.

I guess the mage thing is another instance where ALL mages have those spells because they're totally common, end of convo, and no CS patrols have Psi-stalkers and/ or Dog Boys with tracking skills or senses of smell, aside from the ability to detect magic and PPE. And of course I'd be willing to wager that most CS patrols have too much experience than to "walk by a corpse"; the NCO in charge is very likely to put a las-bolt in the head of "dead" mage just to be sure.
World Book 11 is wrong about D-bees as well. Apparently. Or maybe the odds of being killed as a d-bee got lowered in a later printing than I have.
Only a coward of an idiot surrenders to be tortured/ executed, it's better to fight/ try to escape every time. And if the mage's party's ok with letting the CS take away their comrade, the mage's player needs to find another group entirely.

[Warshield73]

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

Yeah I never understood this either. My first PG was:
- Hatchling Great horned Dragon
- Cyber Knight
- Glitter Boy Pilot
- Ley Line Walker
- A City Rat that was a transferred intelligence Robot
- RMB Head Hunter pilot a CS Enforcer

One of the players tried totaling up all the crimes this group was guilt of just from there gear and by the time they got to the Enforcer it was like 20 death sentences.

I have run maybe 6 or 7 different PGs over the last few decades and I never had more than 2 or 3 PCs that could even hope to get through a CS check point. Usually it was just one, sometimes it none.

[Blue_Lion]

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

Yeah I never understood this either. My first PG was:
- Hatchling Great horned Dragon
- Cyber Knight
- Glitter Boy Pilot
- Ley Line Walker
- A City Rat that was a transferred intelligence Robot
- RMB Head Hunter pilot a CS Enforcer

One of the players tried totaling up all the crimes this group was guilt of just from there gear and by the time they got to the Enforcer it was like 20 death sentences.

I have run maybe 6 or 7 different PGs over the last few decades and I never had more than 2 or 3 PCs that could even hope to get through a CS check point. Usually it was just one, sometimes it none.

I have only ever had 5 charters that could get through a CS check point and 3 of those where in a CS games, 1 was a charter from ninjas and super spies that used chi, so no magic was detected and was technically human and only light MDC NG gear when traveling, the other was a shifter mouse that had human DNA sample as his shape shift form and light NG gear. Typically if you are not playing the CS you are going to have some one in your party that can not get through a CS check point.

[guardiandashi]

my most powerful character I played, when the character first started was someone who could get through a coalition check point, by the end of our campaigns she was someone who could wipe out the coalition as a whole if she really wanted to.

a character that I have wanted to play, but never got to run in a campaign is a dogboy I have posted before.

as far as the first character it says something about their power level when they can say that they are the Goddess of high Tech warfare and even gods aren't really going to argue with them.

[HWalsh]

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

Yeah I never understood this either. My first PG was:
- Hatchling Great horned Dragon
- Cyber Knight
- Glitter Boy Pilot
- Ley Line Walker
- A City Rat that was a transferred intelligence Robot
- RMB Head Hunter pilot a CS Enforcer

One of the players tried totaling up all the crimes this group was guilt of just from there gear and by the time they got to the Enforcer it was like 20 death sentences.

I have run maybe 6 or 7 different PGs over the last few decades and I never had more than 2 or 3 PCs that could even hope to get through a CS check point. Usually it was just one, sometimes it none.

I have only ever had 5 charters that could get through a CS check point and 3 of those where in a CS games, 1 was a charter from ninjas and super spies that used chi, so no magic was detected and was technically human and only light MDC NG gear when traveling, the other was a shifter mouse that had human DNA sample as his shape shift form and light NG gear. Typically if you are not playing the CS you are going to have some one in your party that can not get through a CS check point.

My current character, a Cyber-Knight, could walk right through a CS check point.

He wears either Crusader EBA or a Plastic Man.
His weapons are an NG-P7 Particle Rifle and an NG-57 Ion Pistol.

It's very easy to become CS legal. Don't carry magic. Don't be a powerful Supernatural creature.

Borg? Probably good.
Juicer? Fine.
CK? Sure, so long as you're not packing illegal gear.
Headhunter? Fine.
Burster? No problem.
Mind Melter? Easy peasy.

Pretty much everything in RUE except the Lay Line Walker, the TW, and the Dragon can waltz right through.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

However, Arzno & Merc OPs + NG(2? i never remember which has what) give a TON of diversity AND all of those have the benefit of "these are all available on the open market and you wont be shot for having them" (at least, unless the CS realize that that Arzno armor is a magic item).

Don't forget the Northern Gun books. They added a LOT of good options for the US.

I didnt. Read above.

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.

Because they quite literally murderface you no questions asked if you have one. Theyve spent quite a bit of time and propaganda convincing everyone that the CS invented the SAM, and its clearly pointed out that anyone who got their hands on a USA SAM would immediately realize thats bunk and could likely prove it.

Its also kinda hard/nearly impossible to hide your PA if you get stopped by a CS patrol. Also, the only place to get them is from Fort Apache (not even Area-51 had the plans for the USA SAM, only the ones that they would eventually release), and they WONT give them to anyone. Also keep in mind that they didn't discover these in a cache - they were all built PA by the factory at Fort Apache, so it appears that the USA SAM was not widely out there in the world to be discovered by adventurers in a cache (maybe because it was replaced by the Silver Eagle?). So even getting one is a near impossibility.

After all, they'll kill your party for the mages

Maybe. Theyll certainly try to take him into custody to be tortured for information before he's killed, but they probably wont kill the rest of the party as long as you dont try to stop them. Which.. well, you should. Sometimes, the GM really does want you to fight that patrol. If you can kill them fast enough, you can get away before reinforcements arrive.

However, Mages are a lot easier to "hide" from a CS patrol. When you're "pulled over", the mage can simply turn invisible and walk off a couple hundred feet, and when the party is leaving they can slow down and pick him up. There are also other ways to mask mages (Mask PPE, if your mage is a minor psychic, is worth its weight in gold), like Mask PPE, Mystic Invisibility, and a few other spells that mask or hide the fact that you're a magic user (including one that just straight up makes you appear dead; 'yeah, we caught this mage snooping around, we blew him away").

and d-bees as well.

Less likely; given that like 30-40% of the 'Burbs are D-bees and the CS walks right by them on the daily. There might be certain races that are a problem and killed or captured on sight, (like a Uteni), but for the most part as long as the D-bees in question aren't magic users and comply with the stop, theyre likely to be let go with some verbal abuse (and the rest of the team catching flack for working with D-bees). And, like magic users, if a D-bee is likely to a problem, its a lot easier to conceal a single person than a suit of PA.

There's a big difference between "MIGHT kill or attack you" (as a D-bee or Magic User), and "Will murder you on sight if you have X".

Or because some of the party can read.

Eh, not so much. Its not illegal to be able to read per-se, its simply not encouraged, and they dont expect foreigners to comply. After all, a lot of people in the CS need to be able to read (Officers for one). Now, if they catch you transporting a lot of contraband (books), or teaching people to read, or educating people...

But simply knowing how to read isnt enough to get you killed, most likely not even glanced at, if they even know, somehow, that you know how to read. Which isn't a given. Barring having a Psi-bat Master Psychic with them, they cant exactly read your mind and be like "HAH, a dissident READER! FIRE AWAY BOIS!".

Mind, this was a lot less of an issue when there were still two large corridors of territory to get around the CS - before CS El Dorado was a thing, there was a several hundred mile wide corridor of "not CS territory" between Lone Star and the nearest CS holdings to the north, and you could always go NORTH around the CS through Tolkeen to get to NG/MI and from NG/MI you could get to Canada/Lazlo and points further east through lower MI without having to go through a spot where the CS might stop you.

Now... there isn't such a spot. The CS patrols the old Tolkeen corridor (ostensibly more than their own home territory as there is still an active insurgency going on here), anything further north is Xiticix territory, and now CS El Dorado closes off the southern Corridor, leaving the only way around CS territory through the Pecos Badlands.

I guess the mage thing is another instance where ALL mages have those spells because they're totally common,

Simple Invisibility is 2nd Level. So yes, it is EXTREMELY common. You can literally buy it in Kingsdale, Arzno, or Merctown, no questions asked without being part of their guilds. One assumes it would be just as easy to get in Tolkeen (pre-siege), Lazlo, and New Lazlo, but we have no source that explicitly SAYS that, unlike the other three. I'd have to look at Fed of Magic but im pretty sure you can buy spells in Stormpsire and from the university in the town ruled by The Three. There are also other spells that can make it even easier to get by that are also available freely on the open market in Arzno and Merctown. (Mystic Invisibility makes it so you dont even show up to mystic senses AT ALL).

You seem to have this hard-on for assuming that PCs are idiots and never prepare for the challenges they may face. I do not. I assume at least marginal professionalism on the part of the character, unless it doesn't make sense (like, OK, if you're playing a Dragon Hatchling - probably not, you're not that old - or someone just Rifted in who has no idea what the dangers of Rifts Earth are, but lets face it, those are the exceptions to the PC paradigm, not the norm).

If you're going to be traversing CS territory on the regular, you're going to take basic precautions not get blown away when you're inevitably stopped by a patrol. As a magic user, that generally means finding some way to not be present for the stop. . Simply mounting up (completely visible) on a hoverbike and riding off after the "lights and sirens" go on (figuratively speaking) is not a thing. Theyll just run you down with Skycycles or a SAM. Continuing to flee when told to stop will = assumption of wrongdoing and theyll just blow you away.

So, you have to find some way to not be present for stops. Or to make it so even if you are, nothing happens (like Mystic Invisibility, Mask PPE, etc). You're not just going to be like "well, every time we get stopped, we get into a protracted fire-fight with 4x our number of CS troops and hope we can kill them all before reinforcements arrive and with enough time for us to escape the area".

Thats insane.

Again, this was less of an issue before the CS became the SuperCS and there were two large, wide corridors that you could use to get from East to West without being in "CS Territory" - keep in mind whie El Dorado is claimed by the CS, they only really control half of it - but they still PATROL the rest of it, with long-range patrols (Squads/Platoons in Mark Vs, Skycycles, Human-led Skelebots, and occasionally Dog Packs). Now its a serious issue, as they quite literally bisect the continent except the narrow strip of the Pecos Empire... and thats potentially a WORSE choicem, 'cause you might just get attacked there because reasons.

So, yeah, i assume that any party that is going to be traversing the continent that does not have some other way to travel (like a Shifter who can literally just Rift them past the trouble spots) is going to have precautions in place for when they get stopped, because they aren't idiots. Especially when those "precautions" are useful in all sorts of other situations and can be bought cheaply and freely on the open market for less than the price of a laser rifle. I expect my tech based characters to buy Ammo for their guns. I expect my spellcasters to buy spells to enhance their abilities. Because NOT doing so is like being in town, out of Mini-Missiles for your Samson Missileman, having millions of credits and being like "Nah, i dont need to reload my missile launchers".

end of convo, and no CS patrols have Psi-stalkers and/ or Dog Boys with tracking skills or senses of smell, aside from the ability to detect magic and PPE.

Sure, some CS patrols have Dog Boys and Psi Stalkers (not most, though, we are given makeups of Patrols in various books, including SB1, CWC, and others).... but what do their tracking skills matter? Why would they even be looking? When i left the vehicle, i was invisible. And quite possibly flying. What reason do they have to suspect that there was a magic user on board? Im not talking walking off 30ft. Im talking walking off 1500-2500ft. Or more. Rejoin the party later.

And of course I'd be willing to wager that most CS patrols have too much experience than to "walk by a corpse";

Uh.. wut? Most Patrols in the outer reaches might be ONE human with a skelebot platoon. Or even just, straight up, Skelebots. with no humans. Even then, what does "too experienced to walk by a corpse" even mean? You dont get to full-blown platoons of humans with Dog Pack support until you're in the interior (or in the "patrolled" areas of Lone Star, where you might get entire platoons of Dog Boys with maybe one or two Humans, no matter how close to Lone Star you actually are, as they make quite a bit more use of Dog Boys down there.)

the NCO in charge is very likely to put a las-bolt in the head of "dead" mage just to be sure.

Why? Guys dead. Why waste the shot. And damage the vehicle? And... even if he does... you (the remaining PCs) can stop him. Like "uh, hey Sarge, ive got paper on that guy, you cant blow the body away, i need to collect my bounty". A lot of times, those bounties are offered by the CS, so the guy isn't just going to slag a dead body for giggles when a lot of times, the only way the CS gets these guys is having mercs run them down. If the CS starts depriving mercs of the money, thatll dry up.

World Book 11 is wrong about D-bees as well.

By definition, the book is correct. It straight up says that D-bees are likely to be left alone unless the patrol leader is having a bad day (we're talking in the burbs here), or is especially cruel, especially if the are the servants or property of a human. Its not exactly too hard to have a human do the talking and be "the guy in charge". Let their prejudice assume that theyre your servants, or lessers. They dont even hunt down or kill/recapture rogue dog boys that haven't re-transgressed against the CS after a certain point (Lone Star). Also, there's an entire book series about the 'Burns (4 books!) that go into great detail. The burbs are FULL of D-Bees. (Depending on the particular 'Burb, they may even outnumber the humans, though as an aggregate, its more like ~30-40%).

And NOT ALL CS ARE GUN-HAPPY EVIL DUDES. Its like Kevin has written several essays on the topic. Theyll turn a blind eye to D-bees all the time. They CANT turn a blind eye when the orders are "Absolutely kill anyone, without question, that has X" (Naruni anything (though you could probably get by with the Force Field emitters as they can be built into armor and hidden), USA SAM, Bandito SAMs, a few other things).

Apparently. Or maybe the odds of being killed as a d-bee got lowered in a later printing than I have.

[/quote]

Or they simply aren't as high as you're imagining. Unless youd like to provide a citation to back up your claim? (And know that it will be over-ridden by the more recently published Chi-Town Burbs books).

Only a coward of an idiot surrenders to be tortured/ executed, it's better to fight/ try to escape every time.

False on its face. If we got stopped, and couldn't evade or they had us outnumbered heavily... i'd consider letting them take me (if i were the mage in question who for some reason had NO WAY to avoid being seen) rather than getting the entire party slagged, especially because its possible for me to escape, or for the party to rescue me, when they can set up an attack that wont be suicidal. The other PCs coming back for me afterwards when they can choose how and when to engage and put themselves at the advantage is a lot better than "well there are 40 guys and a Mark V pointing guns at us.. OPEN FIRE BOIS!"

And if the mage's party's ok with letting the CS take away their comrade, the mage's player needs to find another group entirely.

You're now conflating the players with their characters. Ive played several characters who would have let the mage get taken away because they dont like mages. Now, the entire party's characters didn't feel that way, so it probably wouldn't have happened, and the characters in questions weren't so hateful of mages that they'd PK (i just dont do that except when RP dictates in the extreme) the guy.

And, again, there are plenty of situations where that might be preferrable. A good-aligned mage might even be willing to risk death, or even the certainty of death, to spare his comrades.

But the assertion that it is "ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS" better to just fight it out is absurd. You going to have the same assertion when the "patrol" in question is a roadblock with Two Mark Vs, a Mark IX MLRS, and a pair of Skullsmashers, with the full loads of each APC at the ready?

'cause you're dead. Just dead. Maybe the story requires you to get captured. You could "foil" that trying to fight, but dont complain when the GM has you absolutely obliterated by continual LRM salvos from the Mark IX.

Hell, MOST ("average" RUE characters, like HW was talking about) parties that aren't EXTREMELY well prepared probably cant take the single embarked Platoon and a Mark V in an open fight. If you're a party full of RPA pilots, a heavy FCB, a Dragon Hatchling, and MDC Magic Users with tons of gear, maybe. Especially if those RPA pilots of the "R" type with big-ass robots that have missiles on them.

But a good party could probably lay an ambush for that APC and stand a decent chance of grabbing their comrade and getting away.

Your world seems incredibly binary. Ill admit to not being able to wrap my brain around that kind of limited thinking.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

Yeah I never understood this either. My first PG was:
- Hatchling Great horned Dragon

Can turn invisible and fly away, or, if he doesn't have the spell to turn invisible yet, can turn into an animal and fly away.

- Cyber Knight
- Glitter Boy Pilot

Are totally fine. Unless they were carrying Naruni tech.

- Ley Line Walker

Turn invisible and ride off with the dragon? Why you would NOT take Simple Invisibility i have no idea. It makes people -9 to hit you in combat even after you open fire.

- A City Rat that was a transferred intelligence Robot
- RMB Head Hunter pilot a CS Enforcer

Both seem fine. As, for whatever reason, the CS seems to have zero issues with third parties owning old-style CS equipment. They are even friendly with/outwardly SUPPORT several groups. If we were talking new-style stuff, a lot more likely.

One of the players tried totaling up all the crimes this group was guilt of just from there gear and by the time they got to the Enforcer it was like 20 death sentences.

Then someone was making stuff up. A lot of gear-related "offenses" just involve the patrol seizing said gear. I.E. Wilks gear that now that it is illegal in CS territory. Naruni will get you shot on sight if you are weilding it, you could probably (if the GM isnt being a jerk) get by if you had it like it, in a crate, and when the CS stopped you were like "Hey Sarge, glad to see you, we got jumped by these bandits and they had this NE gear - now we dont have to drive all the way to a CS base to turn it in!" and hand it over. You'd likely only get shot if you tried to hide it. The USA SAM and Bandito SAMS, though are just "you get to die". Because its not just about possession, there, its about possibly knowing that the CS didn't create the things.

Its not illegal to be a non-citzen Borg or Robot in the CS. You cant get into any cities, but you can travel through, as long as you obey the law. And they'd have no way to know you were some kind of transferred intelligence. Its not illegal to travel through CS territory even being well-armed. Or being a Cyber-Knight (though the CS often takes a dim view of them, you dont have to wear a sign saying "CYBER KNIGHT, YO". Its not illegal to be psychic in the CS. Its not illegal to own a GB as a non-citizen, as long as you're just passing through.

I have run maybe 6 or 7 different PGs over the last few decades and I never had more than 2 or 3 PCs that could even hope to get through a CS check point. Usually it was just one, sometimes it none.

Then you play with a lot of what i'd call "snowflake" types - where their characters have to be special super magical awesome mega unique snowflake things. (I want to be clear that im not using this in the current socio-political sense)

The only thing in that first party that would even raise an eyebrow is the Line Walker and the Dragon; the Dragon has DOZENS of ways to not be visible (can literally shift into a bird and fly away), and the mage has many options as well.

Otherwise, as long as you were just passing through and not causing trouble... you'd pass a CS patrol no problems.

MAYBE they give you a hard time about the Enforcer, but if you could prove it was a rebuilt (and by "prove", i mean, "give the sergeant any reason to believe you didn't personally steal it so he doesn't have to get into a firefight today about something that Central Command doesn't really care about") or otherwise "legitimately" acquired, you're likely to be let off.

Again, this only seems to apply to "Old Style" CS gear, as CWC makes it quite clear that owning the new-style stuff will get you shot, but i'd imagine that there is just so much of the Old Stuff in the hands of Non-CS actors that its just too much work to try to police it, and some of it (Body Armor and Weapons) are straight up knocked off by the Black Market so you dont even know that that is "really" CS gear.

ANd if you were packing Naruni gear... then yeah.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I never understood the apprehension of people about having the pre-Rifts SAMAS when the CS is in the game.
After all, they'll kill your party for the mages and d-bees as well.
Or because some of the party can read.

Yeah I never understood this either. My first PG was:
- Hatchling Great horned Dragon
- Cyber Knight
- Glitter Boy Pilot
- Ley Line Walker
- A City Rat that was a transferred intelligence Robot
- RMB Head Hunter pilot a CS Enforcer

One of the players tried totaling up all the crimes this group was guilt of just from there gear and by the time they got to the Enforcer it was like 20 death sentences.

I have run maybe 6 or 7 different PGs over the last few decades and I never had more than 2 or 3 PCs that could even hope to get through a CS check point. Usually it was just one, sometimes it none.

I have only ever had 5 charters that could get through a CS check point and 3 of those where in a CS games, 1 was a charter from ninjas and super spies that used chi, so no magic was detected and was technically human and only light MDC NG gear when traveling, the other was a shifter mouse that had human DNA sample as his shape shift form and light NG gear. Typically if you are not playing the CS you are going to have some one in your party that can not get through a CS check point.

My current character, a Cyber-Knight, could walk right through a CS check point.

He wears either Crusader EBA or a Plastic Man.
His weapons are an NG-P7 Particle Rifle and an NG-57 Ion Pistol.

It's very easy to become CS legal. Don't carry magic. Don't be a powerful Supernatural creature.

Borg? Probably good.
Juicer? Fine.
CK? Sure, so long as you're not packing illegal gear.
Headhunter? Fine.
Burster? No problem.
Mind Melter? Easy peasy.

Pretty much everything in RUE except the Lay Line Walker, the TW, and the Dragon can waltz right through.

With the proviso of "dont carry the few types of gear that will get you murderfaced without question"...

This.

I'd add Shifter and the Elemental Fusionist (puke), but a Shifter is even more likely to have the spells to evade a patrol than most.

All most magic users have to to do get past a checkpoint (if we're talking "checkpoint into a city", thats entirely different; this discussion is about "passing through CS territory") is simply not be present for the stop. If its a physical checkpoint (they are across the only major path through) then re-joining the party afterwards might be an issue, but also possibly not (flying is actually relatively easy to achieve as a magic user; heck you could even use a jetpack, you just need to not be visible).

Thats really it.

It can get a lot harder if you're certain races (a lot of D-bees can pass through the CS without too much trouble as long as they seem to have "human masters" and are SDC, non-supernatural beastie types. Harrassed, sure, maybe gear seized, or something, but they dont just gun down every non-supernatural D-bee on sight. Its never been claimed they did. Races like Kittani that are known servants of enemies are likely not going to fare well, but that's something you know when you make that character.

Or if you're certain classes (a T-man might have some issues, as they dont have (at least i dont recall, they actually might) a good way to turn invisible/travel away....

But this can also be avoided by gear. TW items are simply not that rare in a lot of the places PCs go frequently. You could get a small hover vehicle and have it enchanted with Invisibility: Superior, and when the 'lights and sirens' go on, the troublesome types pile in, turn the vehicle invisible, and fly off. A few other low-level TW enhancements can make it so it doesn't even make sound. Its not even particularly expensive, as far as vehicles go. And as long as it is launched from inside a larger vehicle, there's no way for an observing CS patrol to know.

Again, its simply a matter of being prepared for the situations you might run into, and if you're a party of PCs travelling the continent, getting past the CS has to be part of that preparation because you can no longer easily avoid them.

If you're playing Pre-SoT, its less of an issue (as previously talked about). But its a serious issue in a Post-Aftermath Rifts, at least until the Minion War kicks off in full (at which point the CS is turning a blind eye to that stuff in the interests of getting more bodies into the fight).

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

As a further proviso, this also only matters if the PCs are travelling in a big vehicle or large convoy; if everyone is on their own vehicles (which is equally likely) or sharing a vehicle with just one or two people, its a lot easier. Magic users/troublesome characters can simply ride in one of the TW-enhanced vehicles and then turn invisible and fly away at full speed when the lights and sirens go on. Or, if you see the checkpoint coming up, simply turn invisible and fly past it. They wont even know you were there.

[HWalsh]

As a further proviso, this also only matters if the PCs are travelling in a big vehicle or large convoy; if everyone is on their own vehicles (which is equally likely) or sharing a vehicle with just one or two people, its a lot easier. Magic users/troublesome characters can simply ride in one of the TW-enhanced vehicles and then turn invisible and fly away at full speed when the lights and sirens go on. Or, if you see the checkpoint coming up, simply turn invisible and fly past it. They wont even know you were there.

It's not even that hard.

If they don't have Dogboys or a Psi-stalker all the Mage has to do is dress like a normal dude.

"Oh look, it's a human in a Plastic Man carrying a Northern Gun sidearm, nothing to see here."

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

As a further proviso, this also only matters if the PCs are travelling in a big vehicle or large convoy; if everyone is on their own vehicles (which is equally likely) or sharing a vehicle with just one or two people, its a lot easier. Magic users/troublesome characters can simply ride in one of the TW-enhanced vehicles and then turn invisible and fly away at full speed when the lights and sirens go on. Or, if you see the checkpoint coming up, simply turn invisible and fly past it. They wont even know you were there.

It's not even that hard.

If they don't have Dogboys or a Psi-stalker all the Mage has to do is dress like a normal dude.

"Oh look, it's a human in a Plastic Man carrying a Northern Gun sidearm, nothing to see here."

There's that, too, but its kinda chancy to wait until you're stopped and you see the guys coming out of the APC and realize "oh crap, they have a Dog Pack". Now, if you're just being flagged down by SkyCycles or a SAM patrol (common on the frontier) thats gonna work 99% of the time, because unless they see something suspicious and call for backup, youre not likely to be outed. Same with an automated Skelebot patrol or Skelebot + Handler patrol.

Only time you have to worry is if there are mounted troops or a ground patrol; their Dog Pack/Psi Stalker support might not be obvious until its too late.

[HWalsh]

As a further proviso, this also only matters if the PCs are travelling in a big vehicle or large convoy; if everyone is on their own vehicles (which is equally likely) or sharing a vehicle with just one or two people, its a lot easier. Magic users/troublesome characters can simply ride in one of the TW-enhanced vehicles and then turn invisible and fly away at full speed when the lights and sirens go on. Or, if you see the checkpoint coming up, simply turn invisible and fly past it. They wont even know you were there.

It's not even that hard.

If they don't have Dogboys or a Psi-stalker all the Mage has to do is dress like a normal dude.

"Oh look, it's a human in a Plastic Man carrying a Northern Gun sidearm, nothing to see here."

There's that, too, but its kinda chancy to wait until you're stopped and you see the guys coming out of the APC and realize "oh crap, they have a Dog Pack". Now, if you're just being flagged down by SkyCycles or a SAM patrol (common on the frontier) thats gonna work 99% of the time, because unless they see something suspicious and call for backup, youre not likely to be outed. Same with an automated Skelebot patrol or Skelebot + Handler patrol.

Only time you have to worry is if there are mounted troops or a ground patrol; their Dog Pack/Psi Stalker support might not be obvious until its too late.

Let's not forget - It's a game.

It's not real life with a million variables.

If the GM wants to set up a fight between the PCs and some CS then it'll happen. Nothing the players do will stop it.

[Warshield73]

Let's not forget - It's a game.

Agreed, this I believe is always the most important thing to remember in discussions on these forums.

It's not real life with a million variables.

Well, most interactions in real life don't have that many variables or variation of outcome but that is just my Psych 101 kicking in. But definitely in a game where a GM is trying to tell a story and trying run, sometimes, dozens of characters it is unlikely that you are going to get lots of variations on the outcome. For an encounter like the one described we are talking about mainly 3 or 4 possible outcomes depending on the PG and the patrol makeup.

If the GM wants to set up a fight between the PCs and some CS then it'll happen. Nothing the players do will stop it.

While this could be true, and I am certainly guilty of this kind of railroading on occasion, I think most GMs try to provide a few options. In most of my games characters have the option of avoiding an encounter entirely.

[Hotrod]

Character types I've never played as a player that I think could be fun/interesting:
Combat Cyborg
Juicer
Headhunter
Mind Melter
Ley Line Walker

Most of my characters have been the types that derive their strength from skills and/or equipment, like Wilderness Scouts, Glitter Boys, Operators, Cyber-Knights, Rogue Scholars, and military types.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I notice that one issue that seems to drive a lot of arguments is dispute over exactly how murder-happy the CS are. Not calling out anyone in particular so much as noting an ongoing pattern in these kinds of threads. Some GM's apparently play them as straight up cartoon villians who will execute anyone or anything at the first hint of dissent or magic. Others play the CS as being more likely to dole out abuse but not likely to kill unless it's a few specific kinds or in a restricted area. And these are surprisingly not compatible play styles. If the player group has been accustomed to the Idea there's absolutely never any point in talking to a CS patrol and there's nothing to do but hide or kill them before they kill you, they will react to various scenarios very differently than a group who is used to the idea a random CS patrol is something you can actually interact with and maybe walk away peacefully from.

[Mack]

The orbital thread discussion reminded me of another character...

The CAN Republic decides to learn more about happenings on Earth's surface, so they drop down a handful of AI Robots to explore it. Each would be a unique build using the Robot OCC rules from SB1r. The overall design would be something that's easily mistaken for a light cyborg (synthetic face, etc). But for some fun, I decided to add some complexity to the bot by including multiple intelligences within it.

Intelligence #1 - This would be a Neural Intelligence and the main personality of the bot. Skill selections would focus on Science & Technical skills that would help the 'bot understand the local population's society. It has no knowledge of where the bot came from. As far as it knows, it simply awakened in the wilderness and knows that its objective is to explore and learn.

Intelligence #2 - This would be a simplified Artificial Intelligence that serves an internal assistant to Intel #1. It's designed to handle the internal functions and has a few mechanical skills used primarily to repair the bot. Normally it has no motor control and can only take control of any given ability if Intel #1 allows it. However, it can 'speak' to Intel #1 at any time. It also has no knowledge of the bot's origins. (Think of it as a sidekick, within the bot's head.)

(And here's where I made it overly complicated...)
Intelligence #3 - This is a second, but secret, Neural Intelligence hidden within the bot and serves a few different purposes. First, the bot's designers were concerned that if the bot was ever captured its technology could be exploited. Or worse, someone might determine where it came from. So this Intelligence has it's own access to the bot's self-destruct mechanism. Even if someone were to successfully hack through Intel #1, this intelligence can still destroy the bot. Second, since Intel #1 doesn't know its origin, it can't report the results of its exploration. Periodically, Intel #3 will prompt Intel #1 to 'test' its laser communicator by aiming it at the moon. This 'test' actually sends a summary report prepared by Intel #3. Similarly, Intel #3 can receive mission updates from the CAN Republic, which it then carefully feeds to Intel #1. These prompts function similarly to a Hypnotic Suggestion. All Intel #1 knows is that it now has an inclination to do what Intel #3 prompted. If Intel #3 had an alignment, it would be Aberrant (it's perfectly willing to slaughter and maim to achieve it's objectives). It can only take control of the bot if Intel #1 should become disabled.


Over time, Intels 1 & 2 would slowly begin to realize that either there's something odd within their programming, or that there's another Intel hiding from them. Whether the three of them come together, or fight for control, would be role-played out over the life of the character.

[Fenris2020]

I notice that one issue that seems to drive a lot of arguments is dispute over exactly how murder-happy the CS are. Not calling out anyone in particular so much as noting an ongoing pattern in these kinds of threads. Some GM's apparently play them as straight up cartoon villians who will execute anyone or anything at the first hint of dissent or magic. Others play the CS as being more likely to dole out abuse but not likely to kill unless it's a few specific kinds or in a restricted area. And these are surprisingly not compatible play styles. If the player group has been accustomed to the Idea there's absolutely never any point in talking to a CS patrol and there's nothing to do but hide or kill them before they kill you, they will react to various scenarios very differently than a group who is used to the idea a random CS patrol is something you can actually interact with and maybe walk away peacefully from.

I've never been in a game where the CS were reasonable about d-bees or mages, and after SoT they don't like even human Cyber-Knights anymore.
In fact, one GM actually had post-SoT CS SAMAS patrols have a Psi-Stalker pilot present in some of them

[Mack]

I notice that one issue that seems to drive a lot of arguments is dispute over exactly how murder-happy the CS are. Not calling out anyone in particular so much as noting an ongoing pattern in these kinds of threads. Some GM's apparently play them as straight up cartoon villians who will execute anyone or anything at the first hint of dissent or magic. Others play the CS as being more likely to dole out abuse but not likely to kill unless it's a few specific kinds or in a restricted area. And these are surprisingly not compatible play styles. If the player group has been accustomed to the Idea there's absolutely never any point in talking to a CS patrol and there's nothing to do but hide or kill them before they kill you, they will react to various scenarios very differently than a group who is used to the idea a random CS patrol is something you can actually interact with and maybe walk away peacefully from.

I've never been in a game where the CS were reasonable about d-bees or mages, and after SoT they don't like even human Cyber-Knights anymore.
In fact, one GM actually had post-SoT CS SAMAS patrols have a Psi-Stalker pilot present in some of them

The challenge is to not portray the CS as one monolithic entity. It's easy to overlook things like the CS Rangers being "notorious for temporarily joining forces with (and befriending) D-bees, dragons, mercs, and practitioners of magic while on assignment in the wilderness." The CS should be portrayed as shades of gray (some dark, some light) instead of just black.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I notice that one issue that seems to drive a lot of arguments is dispute over exactly how murder-happy the CS are. Not calling out anyone in particular so much as noting an ongoing pattern in these kinds of threads. Some GM's apparently play them as straight up cartoon villians who will execute anyone or anything at the first hint of dissent or magic. Others play the CS as being more likely to dole out abuse but not likely to kill unless it's a few specific kinds or in a restricted area. And these are surprisingly not compatible play styles. If the player group has been accustomed to the Idea there's absolutely never any point in talking to a CS patrol and there's nothing to do but hide or kill them before they kill you, they will react to various scenarios very differently than a group who is used to the idea a random CS patrol is something you can actually interact with and maybe walk away peacefully from.

I've never been in a game where the CS were reasonable about d-bees or mages, and after SoT they don't like even human Cyber-Knights anymore.
In fact, one GM actually had post-SoT CS SAMAS patrols have a Psi-Stalker pilot present in some of them

The challenge is to not portray the CS as one monolithic entity. It's easy to overlook things like the CS Rangers being "notorious for temporarily joining forces with (and befriending) D-bees, dragons, mercs, and practitioners of magic while on assignment in the wilderness." The CS should be portrayed as shades of gray (some dark, some light) instead of just black.

This.

If you're reading the books, its clear that the CS doesn't just murder-hobo everything on sight. The setting wouldn't even work if they did. (The 'burbs are FULL of D-bees for one thing). There ARE things that they WILL Murdo-hobo you for, but those are pretty clearly called out (using/trafficking in Naruni tech, the Bandito and USA SAMs, you're a Splugorth Minion Race) in most cases.

A lot of the edge cases, even if they WOULD kill you for reasons (magic user, etc), they can very easily be made to not realize that you are that thing.

Even if in Fenris' comment above the CS "Doesn't like CK's anymore" (they NEVER liked CKs, but nothing in the SoT books or Aftermath says "and now they KoS CKs") and would ostensibly kill them...

There's no sign around your neck that says "Cyber Knigh!". Even seeing a Psi-sword isn't a criteria - Most Master psychics and a number of Major ones can manifest a Psi Sword (including Mystics and Mystic Knights).

You dont have to wear a sign that says "MAGE HERE", and unless you run into a patrol that DOES have a Psi-Satlker or Dog Boy/Dog Pack, there's no way for random CS mooks to know you're a mage.

Hell, even during the Siege, they didn't just blow mages away on sight - they rounded up thousands or more of them, and even devised ways to cripple their magic (involuntary cybernetics) to keep them alive. They set up entire concentration camps. And it was something of a big deal and even got one of the Generals in a giant pile of trouble when it came out he was using them in a very Mengele fashion, to the point that even the soldiers under his command refused orders to massacre the inhabitants when it was about to come out.

[Hotrod]

My favorite character that I've never played is actually an NPC villain I made for a couple of adventures in Palladium Fantasy, but the basic concept is workable in Rifts, with some adjustments. Here's how I'd put him together in Rifts:

Yannus, the Nonviolent Villain

Origins: Yannus, a human, had been adopted as a baby into a debee community that ran afoul with the Coalition and got wiped out. An officer leading the C.S. grunts decided to spare the toddler human child and brought him back, adopting the young child and raising him among the elite of Chi-Town. The officer thought young Yannus was too young to remember the slaughter of his original family. He was wrong, though the child never let on. Yannus grew up and became a highly-respected biochemist in Chi-Town and Lone Star. However, Yannus never forgave the C.S. for what it did. From a young age, he dedicated himself completely to two goals:

1. A life without violence.
2. The total destruction of the Coalition States.

Yannus maintains several identities: a highly-respected scientist in the Coalition, a rich and well-connected drug trafficker in the Black Market, a scholar in Lazlo, and many others. He frequently travels, and each of his identities has its own network of friends, colleagues, and pawns.

Disposition:
Yannus is very polite with everyone he meets, always quick to put the people around him at ease. He's likely to be friendly to the player characters and may even become their ally and friend. This sincerely solicitous nature can be a little unnerving as he apologizes to a helpless foe while administering drugs that will enslave or kill them. While he's certainly not a good character, he tends to respect good characters and prefers not to use them as addicts or pawns in his schemes (though he'll happily leave them temporarily disabled and/or high on something if they cross him). Though Yannus is committed to taking down the Coalition, revenge does not motivate him and he does not hold personal grudges; if he regards the player characters as friends, he may even explain his motives in person or by letter in a tone that's polite, conciliatory, and even warm.

Abilities:
Aside from his formidable abilities as a biological engineer and chemist, Yannus has several key abilities, most of which he keeps secret:
1. Yannus is a latent psychic with the powers of speed reading and total recall. He himself has no idea that he has these powers at all. These powers are enormously helpful to him, but they also motivate him. Every night as he goes to sleep, Yannus uses his power of total recall to re-live the slaughter of his original family.
2. Cybernetic Implants: Yannus has three cyber-disguises, allowing him to totally transform his face, hair, and voice within 15 seconds. He also has a DNA analyzer, amplified hearing, and an oxygen storage cell. He also has a bio-comp and nanite system that he keeps fully stocked.
3. Gas Bombs: Yannus carries potent gas bombs with a wide variety of effects, including smoke, sleep, paralysis, and multiple kill mechanisms, as well as plenty of more subtle effects. Yannus himself is immune to these effects, either through self-administered antidotes or the use of his oxygen storage cell.
4. Drugs! Yannus carries a wide array of potent drugs, poisons, antidotes, and specially-programmed nanites, as well as hypodermic needles and other means of administering them.

Yannus never wears body armor or carries weapons. He prefers to operate in civilized areas and fly between cities and towns.

Tactics:
When confronted with someone hostile, Yannus will usually either try to disable the aggressor with gas bombs and drugs or else just drop a smoke bomb and escape, changing his appearance to evade identification and capture. He will not fight, not even to defend himself. Once an enemy is subdued, Yannus will usually administer one or more drugs to make the enemy forget the encounter or better yet bend the enemy to his will through drugs, either through direct effects of the drug or via addiction. If absolutely necessary, Yannus will gently administer lethal injections to an enemy along with enough painkillers to ensure that his victim dies without discomfort.

While Yannus will never strike anyone, he has no problem manipulating drugged minions into doing his will, even if that means killing. More often, though, he manipulates his minions into acts of betrayal, theft, the divulging of secrets, and other subversive activities.

Schemes:
1. Corrupt the Elite! Yannus, under an alias, has started up a highly-profitable recreational drug trade among the elite leaders of the Coalition and their children with the goal of turning the future (and some current) leaders of the Coalition into drug-addled junkies.
2. Disease! Yannus has been developing infectious diseases with the goal of specifically targeting the military and government of the Coalition States. He is nearing completion of a virus tailor-made wreck the Coalition. It makes most people sick and infectious, but those who have been through standard C.S. Army and full-citizen medical innoculations have extreme reactions that are deadly.
3. Civil Wars! Through his pawns, Yannus has been gathering dirt on every major leader in the Coalition and building his network both within the Black Market and the Coalition's Elite. Once he feels that he has enough to work with, he'll change gears and use that information and his network to manipulate leaders, organizations, and even full states against each other in progressively more provocative moves.

Defeating Yannus
Yannus' greatest strength is the fact that he's a human of no particularly great power; he's regarded as a model and upstanding citizen by the Coalition, and his aliases tend to be highly-regarded in their own spheres of influence. He's using the Coalition's technological and biological engineering strengths against it. Even The Vanguard isn't much of a threat to Yannus, as they tend to focus on supernatural threats to the Coalition.

The best hope for the Coalition is that someone like the player characters will discover his schemes and identity and either stop him or somehow convince him to give up his life's pursuit.

[HWalsh]

I notice that one issue that seems to drive a lot of arguments is dispute over exactly how murder-happy the CS are. Not calling out anyone in particular so much as noting an ongoing pattern in these kinds of threads. Some GM's apparently play them as straight up cartoon villians who will execute anyone or anything at the first hint of dissent or magic. Others play the CS as being more likely to dole out abuse but not likely to kill unless it's a few specific kinds or in a restricted area. And these are surprisingly not compatible play styles. If the player group has been accustomed to the Idea there's absolutely never any point in talking to a CS patrol and there's nothing to do but hide or kill them before they kill you, they will react to various scenarios very differently than a group who is used to the idea a random CS patrol is something you can actually interact with and maybe walk away peacefully from.

I've never been in a game where the CS were reasonable about d-bees or mages, and after SoT they don't like even human Cyber-Knights anymore.
In fact, one GM actually had post-SoT CS SAMAS patrols have a Psi-Stalker pilot present in some of them

SoT4 doesn't say that CKs are KoS and in fact seems to indicate the opposite as many CS troopers were saved by CKs during the Sorcerer's Revenge.

Remember the CKs did not fight with Tolkeen. A small group of CKs did. The CKs that did were violating orders given by Lord Coake.

Pretty much everyone in Rifts likes CKs from the lowliest CS grunt to the most jaded member of the FoM.