How many magic items can you wear?

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PalladiumBrony
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How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by PalladiumBrony »

I know that under the magic items section of PFRPG 2ed (starting on page 248) it says you can't gain the benefit of more than one magic item that does the same thing, but does it say explicitly how many different items you can wear? If it did, I missed it. As an extreme example, in terms of jewellery alone you could wear ten rings, at least four bracelets/arm rings (minimum one on the wrist and one on the upper arm/biceps), a crown/diadem/tiara, a minimum of one necklace (maybe more!), and more facial piercings than I care to imagine. If it's legal R.A.W. to have every one of those be enchanted... well that could rapidly become broken as hell!
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

Generally, if the players can wear it they can have it but magic items are expensive and to go all out means they have an absolute crap ton of money and that they suddenly become targets for bandits to dragons because they are walking around with a massive amount of gold worth of items that they could lose to a simple cloud of slumber spell. Its like when a player open carries a runesword. Usually a rune sword isn't enough to stop 20/40.60/100/1000 archers from dropping you, and when you are walking around with several million for all to see there are lots of unsavory types that will try to take it. And the money from a runesword will easily pay for what is needed to take you down many times over.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by PalladiumBrony »

Ohh, yes just to be clear, just because I would allow a character to wear that many magic items, doesn't mean it's going to be easy! I agree that character would be lucky to even find that many magic items, and would of course make themselves a massive target for robbery. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some rule that said "if you wear more than 2 magical items at a time your face turns inside out" or something.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

I do believe the top of page 253 of the main book under magic rings bracelets and things is where you want. The powers aren't cumulative but there doesn't seem to be a limit.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

I've always housed ruled it to be 5ive items maximum and they cannot overlap. That goes back to my D&D days from first addition. I couldn't stand players having their characters walk
around looking like Mr. T (for those old enough to remember what he looked like) or the original Marvel Comics Mandarin. Five items on your persons, weapons and shield don't count.
I also have been willing to increase some of the bonuses of magic items, by increasing the cost. Like a +1 bonus to save vs wards cost 35,000 gold. So for 70,000 you can get a +2 and
105,000 you can have a +3. Seems fair enough to me. I can understand why the Western Empire attribute enhancer for PS can up to 10 and the others stop a 3 just to avoid people
getting crazy powerful with them. I mean could you wear five rings each with +10 so you have a PS +50? Nothing in the description says no, but me personally no way.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

Reagren Wright wrote:I mean could you wear five rings each with +10 so you have a PS +50? Nothing in the description says no, but me personally no way.

It does say
"For example, a character could wear 20 rings or medallions that protect vs spell magic, but is still only +1 to save, the same as wearing one such item."
So the bonuses aren't cumulative.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

PalladiumBrony wrote:I know that under the magic items section of PFRPG 2ed (starting on page 248) it says you can't gain the benefit of more than one magic item that does the same thing, but does it say explicitly how many different items you can wear? If it did, I missed it. As an extreme example, in terms of jewellery alone you could wear ten rings, at least four bracelets/arm rings (minimum one on the wrist and one on the upper arm/biceps), a crown/diadem/tiara, a minimum of one necklace (maybe more!), and more facial piercings than I care to imagine. If it's legal R.A.W. to have every one of those be enchanted... well that could rapidly become broken as hell!


I have never been able to find any generalized rules about limitations on numbers of active magic items a single character can wear. There might be specific item limitations, but those cannot be applied as game wide rules, because they apply only to that specific item.

Note that while a char 'Can' have all their jewelry and accessories enchanted. It COSTS a whole lot of money to get them enchanted. And then GMs find reasons to tac on more COSTS due to their accumulated magic items. So weather or not the total Possible are extreme or not, the real limits are more like the real world limits...the COSTS. And that in the PF game there are not a plethora of magic items avalible like in some other games with tunnels and wyrvens, or the card game with munchkins & super munchkins in it.

Twenty rings (fingers and toes) would be the extreme. ;)
Much like the jewelry enchantments in the PF2 core book, under the Charms Rules in TtGD (page 44) the bonuses the Charms provide are not cumulative ether.

The thing is...most of the GMs I've played under make magic items a trouble magnet for the person earring them and the group that person is a part of.

Some general rules of thumb...
A character can only have one intelegent Rune item. Because each will think it has the sole claim to the person wielding it. (HU Enchanted weapon and NB artifacts fall under this RoT too.) Unless the char gets rid of one then the char will be caught in the middle of them fighting over 'control' or 'claim' of the char.

Having a Rune or holy weapon will make the char a target for murder (in the extreme)...to break any link to the weapon and steal the weapon.
Most greater Rune weapons have a curse attached to it. The curse is part of the 'cost' of having the weapon.

Don't lower the GP list cost of the magic stuff in the books. If anything, make them more expensive.

(*nods* Mr. T had way too much bling.....Thinking about it now...don't know it that if they were really training weights or compinsating for something....or just some cultural thing.)
[Then again I am in a trade where I can't wear any at work so I might be biased.]

Note: I have created magic items where the enchantment was attached to earrings, bangles and anklets. So my view that "magic rings" are just an easy to present idea to newbs. (And if any blame, it falls on The One Ring.) And that all the enchantments presented 253 of the PF2 Corebook can be placed on any jewelry, and are just a tithe of the possible enchantments for jewelry.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Hotrod »

p253 states that you can't increase the effects of an enchanted item by wearing two of the same item. It also states that these enchantments can be placed in rings, bracelets, charms, and medallions.
In terms of rings, I'd say you can wear a maximum of 8 or 10, unless you have extra fingers/hands.
In terms of bracelets, you can wear 2, unless you have extra arms
In terms of medallions and charms, I'd say you can wear a maximum of 1 of each, unless you have extra heads.

By a literal interpretation, you could wear a ring, bracelet, medallion, and charm of protection from ___ and achieve a +4 to save that way, where "___" could be spells, psionics, wards, or witches. In the case of circles, since you can have +1 or +2, a strict interpretation might allow you to have up to a +10 to save vs circle magic: a +1 ring, a +2 ring, a +1 bracelet, a +2 bracelet, a +2 medallion, and a +2 charm. This may seem overpowered, but considering that the basic book's worn bonuses are very specific, and considering how expensive they are, I'm actually ok with this interpretation.

Problems of power gaming can come into play when you use sourcebooks. Western Empire is the most egregious example, allowing Attribute Booster rings in a range of +1 to +3. This could allow a character to wear a +1, +2, and +3 ring, adding up to +6 to any one stat with three rings. These rings can't boost multiple attributes, but there's no word on if they can support other enchantments. A normal person could thus boost 2 stats (with six rings) or 3 stats (with 9 rings) by six points this way. This would take a concerted effort, it would be costly, and it would take up spots that could otherwise grant a lot of other powers. Thus, I'm ok with this interpretation.

It would also be possible to add other enchanted items that buff multiple stats. One example would be a Rune Ring of the Dwarven Lords. Wearing more than one of those would confer no extra benefit, but they could stack with 9 other attribute-boosting rings, allowing a cumulative boost of up to +8 to IQ, +12 to P.S, and +8 to P.E.

Really, though, considering the power boost of all the other effects a character could gain by taking a wide range of powers rather than focusing myopically on a single stat, I think taking an approach like this would be preferable. Consider a character that takes the following book-legal combination ten rings instead of a bunch of attribute or saving throw boosters:
Ironhide Ring: grants a natural A.R. of up to 16. It's like weightless, invisible, and invincible armor, but better.
Ring of Truesight: Perfect nightvision, sees the invisible, sees through illusions/hallucinations.
Ring of Vigor: Immune to all diseases, natural and magic.
Ring of Tongues: Can speak all languages
Ring of Escape (my own book-legal creation): Grants invisibility, Fly as an Eagle, and Teleport
Ring of Sensing (my own book-legal creation): Sense Evil, Sense Magic, and Sense Traps
Ring of Infiltration (my own book-legal creation): Metamorphosis Animal, Metamorphosis Human, and Diminish (self)
Ring of Immunity (my own book-legal creation): Impervious to Fire, Impervious to Cold, and Protection from the Undead
Ring of Spying (my own book-legal creation): Telepathy, X-ray Vision, and Impervious to Horror Factor.
Ring of Combat (my own book-legal creation): Superhuman Strength, Fleet Feet, and Multiple Image.

This combination could give any character all kinds of power and utility that no attribute or saving throw boost ever could. Shoot, some of these rings negate the need to make certain saving throws in the first place.

tl;dr I wouldn't stress too much about players trying to boost stats this way.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by TheEvilDM »

Good topic! I normally allow 1 item per limb or "slot" to keep it fair. 1 ring per hand, 1 thing on wrist area, 1 necklace item, 1 earring per ear. I'll even allow 1 ring per foot and some wrist items can be worn on the ankle.

BUT that is me and my world, I tend to have a very low magic world. I don't like characters getting uber powerful like they were playing some other game called "5e".
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Personally, I have no problem with wearing as many magical items as you can reasonably fit on your body. Passive bonuses are passive, but I could see needing to know which ring (usw) you are activating (and which finger it is on).
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

Never had an unlimited amount be an issue and in other such games things like only 3 attuned items did actually limit some of the fun and character experience.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

PalladiumBrony wrote:I know that under the magic items section of PFRPG 2ed (starting on page 248) it says you can't gain the benefit of more than one magic item that does the same thing, but does it say explicitly how many different items you can wear? If it did, I missed it. As an extreme example, in terms of jewellery alone you could wear ten rings, at least four bracelets/arm rings (minimum one on the wrist and one on the upper arm/biceps), a crown/diadem/tiara, a minimum of one necklace (maybe more!), and more facial piercings than I care to imagine. If it's legal R.A.W. to have every one of those be enchanted... well that could rapidly become broken as hell!

AFAIK there is no limit other than for stacking purposes that doesn't fall under the common-sense/logical stuff. So you can't wear a ring and bracelet that do the same thing, I'd even argue the magnitude of the bonuses is not a factor (so no +1 ring combined with a +3 bracelet for example) going by the spirit of the text, though I could not see a reason you couldn't have multiple examples of items that can only be active x-times per day (no stacking).

Given that magical clothing is available already, you could see someone wearing enchanted:
-boots (book examples)
-cape/cloak (book examples)
-individual clothing pieces made of cloth (magic cloths exist in the form of the Environmental Tent, Enchanted Bags, and Magic Bandages, not to mention the boot/capes/cloaks though here you're likely looking at more of a GM call)
-buttons or cufflinks and treat them as medallions for enchanting purposes or treat them as talismans (sp?)
-laces/draw-strings (Thread of Iron, Cherubot Rope establish you could though likely would go for GM call on something else)
-glasses (magic Monocles exist)
-gems (most are to big, but concept wise it shows it can be done)
-guardian stones or crystal chasers or Screech Bottles as a type of medallion they wear (or carried as game pieces) to use as a magic grenade
-magic magic-up is also a category (Wigs, makeup paint/cream)
-enchanting individual sections of Armor (some limits would need to be placed)

One might even argue you could wear multiple wrist bracelets, depending on the design of the bracelets themselves (people can and do wear multiple bracelets on the wrist), though this is a factor the GM could control.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by tmbn »

Say a player would buy Magic Items Fleet feet, Strength of Utgard Loki, Size of Behmoth and Invisibility. And actvate them all at ones. He would be unstopable and have way much power. If players come across much money and think they would raid the Alchemist I will always set some restrictions on what is possible to buy. The items above will give players extreme power so there is no fun in that. Items above should be very rare and maybe only found on missions.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

tmbn wrote:Say a player would buy Magic Items Fleet feet, Strength of Utgard Loki, Size of Behmoth and Invisibility. And actvate them all at ones. He would be unstopable and have way much power. If players come across much money and think they would raid the Alchemist I will always set some restrictions on what is possible to buy. The items above will give players extreme power so there is no fun in that. Items above should be very rare and maybe only found on missions.


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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

10 people casting cloud of slumber on someone usually stops them.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

kiralon wrote:10 people casting cloud of slumber on someone usually stops them.


TBH, I'd only make them save once if the AoE's overlap. It's not "Cloud of Even More Slumber".
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

Extra concentration means stronger effect to me.

Would then a person who is inside a wall of fire and has taken damage from it then ignore damage from a firebolt or fireballl?
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

kiralon wrote:Extra concentration means stronger effect to me.

Would then a person who is inside a wall of fire and has taken damage from it then ignore damage from a firebolt or fireballl?


Two different effects. If you're standing in fire, and get hit by a fireball, that's additional fire, on top of what's already burning you. If two people cast Wall of Fire on top of each other, you just have a wall of fire; it doesn't become super-mega fire. If you're under Armor of Ithan, and cast it again, you don't get an AR of 36 and 200+20/level SDC; you just renew the spell. You can't use Invisibility: Simple twice to get a free attack while invisible, dropping one spell, then the other.

Cloud of Slumber creates a cloud that induces sleep; you cannot create a cloud inside a cloud with a 1st/2nd level spell. Cloud adjacent to a cloud, requiring a new save into the new cloud? Sure. But making several, co-existent, clouds, forcing several saves? That's just cheese, and doesn't make any sense. You want a better cloud of slumber? Get higher level (better spell strength) or invent a new spell.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, to be a complete pedant, the number of magic items someone can WEAR is limited by the size of the items compared to the available surface area of the person and the mass vs their ability to carry.

As for how many can be functional while on the same person, the books don't limit them at all as far as I can tell. I'd allow all passive effects to work simultaneously. Since most of the spell effect items allow the item to actually cast the spell, the only limit is how the spells would affect each other.

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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

And the same effects are not cumulative, it does say that as well, but yes, making ring mail out of magic rings isn't against the rules if you can afford it. Things might get complicated if you ever say the word acba however (what would activate, them all or just one)

Well the reason i think its a save each time is because what happens if a 1st level casts a wall of fire, then a level 15 casts one, is that only id6 damage for the person in it, or 1d6 +14d6 (the difference) or 1d6+15d6 (The total which is what i would do), it also goes that the 15d6 fire is a lot more intense a fire that a 3d6 firebolt, so adding lesser fire to a fire wouldn't do much then, as 2 walls of fire is still 2 fires, all of fire and firebolt is still 2 fires.
and then what happens with the charm spell if 2 people cast charm on a person (and he fails his saves), are both casters his friend (id say yes), or does the second one overwrite the first one, or the as the person already has charm on him the second one not affect him.
and i dont think another casting of AoI would give AR 36, but i would have multiple layers, but as 19 penetrates anyway, it only makes a difference when the second one gets enough damage to drop its AR, then the first one would take damage when the roll is 17 or 18, but anything below that would be off the second one.
And invis doesn't terminate on attack, but if that was what terminated it, both would be terminated if the condition was met (in saying that i convinced my players that the spell description says you turn visible when you attack, and none of them have challenged me on it, the players do not read their abilities real well i have found).
You can get people going off at the same initiative roll, what happens if they both call lightning on the one target at the same time, does one just do nothing?
I do like the idea if it was just the one caster that it extends the spells (but would then make notes in the spells), but having multiple casters magic not work due to someone casting first isn't something I would normally agree with.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

kiralon wrote:Well the reason i think its a save each time is because what happens if a 1st level casts a wall of fire, then a level 15 casts one, is that only id6 damage for the person in it, or 1d6 +14d6 (the difference) or 1d6+15d6 (The total which is what i would do), it also goes that the 15d6 fire is a lot more intense a fire that a 3d6 firebolt, so adding lesser fire to a fire wouldn't do much then, as 2 walls of fire is still 2 fires, all of fire and firebolt is still 2 fires.


The more intense fire of two walls of fire would apply, because you can't have two walls occupying the same area.

and then what happens with the charm spell if 2 people cast charm on a person (and he fails his saves), are both casters his friend (id say yes), or does the second one overwrite the first one, or the as the person already has charm on him the second one not affect him.


Two effects, one of neither of which precludes the other.

and i dont think another casting of AoI would give AR 36, but i would have multiple layers, but as 19 penetrates anyway, it only makes a difference when the second one gets enough damage to drop its AR, then the first one would take damage when the roll is 17 or 18, but anything below that would be off the second one.


You maintain that two fires co-existing would give them twice the damage... why wouldn't two armors co-existing give you twice the protection?

And invis doesn't terminate on attack,


Reread Invisibility: Simple

You can get people going off at the same initiative roll, what happens if they both call lightning on the one target at the same time, does one just do nothing?


They get hit by two lightning bolts, because the two lightning bolts do not need to occupy the same physical space.
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Re: How many magic items can you wear?

Unread post by kiralon »

Im not sure if you allow walls of fire to be cast on people (i do not, its a crazy powerful spell if you use it as read and only allow wall spells to be cast on the ground), so i will use blue flame. The first one is cast on an orc by a level 5 warlock (5d6) and then a 10th level warlock does the same later in the same round, does the orc takes the initial 5d6 damage, so does he then only take an extra 5d6 damage from the 10th lvl warlock (10d6 damage total) or does the lvl 10 warlock do another 10d6 damage as the spell says (for a total of 15d6)?

So it mostly comes down to do AoE Dot do cumulative damage or not. I think as my logic says that if someone is in a high intensity fire, then a lower intensity fire wouldn't hurt them applies really. And I am curious to what you do when varying damage dot and/or aoe spells overlap of the same damage type but from different spells, like being in a wall of fire and then getting hit by a 10ft wheel of fire.

There is also the conundrum if someone casts blue flame, cancels it and then casts it again, less active time, more damage.

And im not saying 2 spells gives double the damage, im only saying both spells do the damage they say they do, and palladium has rules for layering armour as well, but to me the second armour of ithan goes over the top of the first, so affected until it has taken enough damage that it has less protection then the attacker has a chance to hit the 1st AoI layer. It's how I play armour on someone with a natural AR, if the natural AR is 12 and they are wearing chainmail over the top, if the attack roll doesn't beat the chainmail AR it damages the chainmail until the chainmail has lost enough sdc to lose AR points so the AR is now lower than the natural, so if the AR has dropped to 9, an attack up to 9 hits the chainmail still and 10 to 12 is stopped by the natural AR.

But I think im going to change my ruling because my players have never cheesed it but could, i might apply the initial damages in the overlap zone and then just do the highest dot damage in the following rounds, so if you are in a CoS, and second one will make you save again but then you only make 1 saving throw a round in the overlap zone with the highest spell strength.

and with invis my palladium books says the following about invis
1st ed
While invisible the spell caster can speak, walk, climb, run, open doors, carry objects, or any other physical activity, including combat and remain invisible. The invisibility is terminated when the spell duration time elapses or the spell caster cancels the spell.

2nd ed
While invisible, the mage can talk, weave spells, walk, climb, run, open doors, carry objects, and perform other acts of physical exertion, including combat, and remain invisible. The invisibility is terminated when the magic's duration time elapses or the mage cancels the spell.
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