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 Post subject: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:05 am
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:51 am
Posts: 32
Supernatural creatures and creatures of magic are MDC in rifts due to high magic levels. Accordingly, shouldn't they be SDC/up creatures in the splicers universe?


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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Location: Eastvale, calif
should be...yes. check out the same SN & COM in the PFRPG books (dragons&Gods and monsters&animals for most crossovers) for HP/SDC values.

however, I would expect that most GMs would be lazy in this, not doing any ""conversions"".

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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:30 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7248
hard to say in every case. as splicers clearly demonstrates, some creatures are just MDC. which means you need to decide whether a given critter is MDC because of high magic, or if it is MDC because it is in an MDC universe. both of those are reasons why a thing can be SDC in one place but MDC in another, so... good luck :)


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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:52 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Location: Eastvale, calif
Shark_Force wrote:
hard to say in every case. as splicers clearly demonstrates, some creatures are just MDC. which means you need to decide whether a given critter is MDC because of high magic, or if it is MDC because it is in an MDC universe. both of those are reasons why a thing can be SDC in one place but MDC in another, so... good luck :)

In a MDC supproting dimention, with the SN and CoM it is the level of magic that detwermins if they are MDC on that world. Yes, this takes more work for the GM when this happens.(as I touched on in my responce to the OP.)

Talking about creatures other then SN and CoM when the question is about the SN and CoM is not answering the question that was asked. It is only adding a voice that confuses the discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:04 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7248
you have some actual conclusive proof that creatures of magic and supernatural beings are *always* handled that one specific way? because i've certainly never seen a rule stating one way or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:44 am
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15923
Location: Eastvale, calif
Shark_Force wrote:
you have some actual conclusive proof that creatures of magic and supernatural beings are *always* handled that one specific way? because i've certainly never seen a rule stating one way or the other.

If you have text referance that states that there are SN & CoM that are not handled by the standard/canon way when exposed to a low magic enviroment in a MDC supporting dimension, then state where it is.

Don't just throw out unsupported statements just because you think it is ...""possible""... that there are exceptions. That is how confusion is sown/planted, when someone does not give the simple canon answer to the question that was asked. So if you are going to state out your house rule, be man (or woman) enough to say it is your house rule.

IF you were talking about Non-SN or Non-CoM creatures that are MDC in MDC dimentions no matter what the magic level if; then, again, not relevent to the OPQ.

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Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own opinions or house rules, they need to be listed/declareds as your own opinions or house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:31 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7248
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
you have some actual conclusive proof that creatures of magic and supernatural beings are *always* handled that one specific way? because i've certainly never seen a rule stating one way or the other.

If you have text referance that states that there are SN & CoM that are not handled by the standard/canon way when exposed to a low magic enviroment in a MDC supporting dimension, then state where it is.

Don't just throw out unsupported statements just because you think it is ...""possible""... that there are exceptions. That is how confusion is sown/planted, when someone does not give the simple canon answer to the question that was asked. So if you are going to state out your house rule, be man (or woman) enough to say it is your house rule.

IF you were talking about Non-SN or Non-CoM creatures that are MDC in MDC dimentions no matter what the magic level if; then, again, not relevent to the OPQ.


there are general rules that creatures can be MDC or not for reasons other than presence or absence of magical energy. in the absence of a specific ruling that this is *never* the case for creatures of magic or supernatural beings, that it is always the presence or absence of magical energy that determines their SDC/MDC status, the general rule applies.

as is the case with so many things in palladium's library, individual GMs will need to make their best guess if or when this could apply for their games, of course.

for someone who has the statement in their signature that we need to provide rules supported by canon, you sure do seem to like to pronounce yourself as the ultimate authority on something with absolutely zero evidence to back it up though. you asserted that supernatural beings and creatures of magic do not follow this general rule. so where is your specific one?


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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:56 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15923
Location: Eastvale, calif
If you note in my 1st post that I answered the question as per the canon. AND gave places where the OP could look up the HP/SDC values of SN & CoM.

So I did follow my own signiture.

I may have been responing to some poorly worded statements in your 1st post.
Yes, I have a bit of OCD in my reading. But when the word creatures is used w/o it being speciicly clear that the person is not talking about the creatures in the OP topic, things can be misunderstood.
Thou, that unclear statement was not suficent to base the rest of that post on.

And yes, the person saying something that runs couter to the basic rules is the one that has to provide textual backing for the exception to the basic rules.
Since I figure if I don't say it you will, Yes there is always the rule: The GM is always right, and can use their own house rules as they see fit. And I don't dispute that rule. But the way you presented it was easly confused with, note the argument above, for you saying what you said was in the books.

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own opinions or house rules, they need to be listed/declareds as your own opinions or house rules.

Crimson
Eleven
Delight
Petracor


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 Post subject: Re: Supernaturals
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:20 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7248
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
If you note in my 1st post that I answered the question as per the canon. AND gave places where the OP could look up the HP/SDC values of SN & CoM.

So I did follow my own signiture.

I may have been responing to some poorly worded statements in your 1st post.
Yes, I have a bit of OCD in my reading. But when the word creatures is used w/o it being speciicly clear that the person is not talking about the creatures in the OP topic, things can be misunderstood.
Thou, that unclear statement was not suficent to base the rest of that post on.

And yes, the person saying something that runs couter to the basic rules is the one that has to provide textual backing for the exception to the basic rules.
Since I figure if I don't say it you will, Yes there is always the rule: The GM is always right, and can use their own house rules as they see fit. And I don't dispute that rule. But the way you presented it was easly confused with, note the argument above, for you saying what you said was in the books.


you did not post a single thing to show that your answer is canon. before you can say you proved anything, you have to actually provide proof. that *should* be a tautology. apparently it isn't.

so, let's try this again:

you provide a quote from an actual rule book that says that supernatural beings and creatures of magic are only determined to be SDC or MDC based on the magic level of the environment, and never anything else, and THEN, *if* you can do that, you have proven your statement.

otherwise: there are multiple reasons why things can be SDC or MDC. there is no rule stating that those reasons cannot apply to creatures of magic or supernatural beings. therefore, those reasons could apply to creatures of magic or supernatural beings, and you need to take that possibility into consideration.


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