Magic and PPE detection

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darthauthor
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Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by darthauthor »

So the group has a true Atlantean in the party.

Would a Dog Boy / Psi-Stalker / Magic user / Psychic using Sense magic "detect" the possessor of magic tattoos even though they are not using them?

Do a lot of the CS know about magic tattoos, to the point they if they saw them they would recognize them and attack the party?

Do supernatural beings like dragons and such automatically reveal themselves as "using magic" while they have shapes shifted to a human form? While seeing the invisible? Regenerating? Natural Invisibility? Flight? Using supernatural strength?

Follow up question.

Do Atlantean tattoos need to look like they do or is it just a custom / tradition?

For example, can Knight's Armor look like a CS armor?
Can the tattoo be camoflaged with another ordinary tattoos over or next to it?
Can the GM or the player with GM's permission make new tattoos for other invocation spells or other schools of magic like elemental/Warlock, Russian Fire magic, necromancy, palladium fantasy magic spells or Nature magic.
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by killgore444 »

darthauthor wrote:So the group has a true Atlantean in the party.

Would a Dog Boy / Psi-Stalker / Magic user / Psychic using Sense magic "detect" the possessor of magic tattoos even though they are not using them?

If they make their percentage roll. While it IS highly likely, the percentage chance isn't automatic win. However, there is almost NOTHING the Atlantean can do to prevent it, and neither Dog-Boys or Psi-Stalkers normally travel alone. Every single member of their gang/pack gets a roll.

Good luck! :roll:

Do a lot of the CS know about magic tattoos, to the point they if they saw them they would recognize them and attack the party?

Most people no. Not even amongst the military. However, anyone HIGH ranking has got the Brief, and most of the people in Psi-Division, RCSG, NTSeT and Psi-NeT would likewise have a chance of knowing about them. The higher the Rank (or experience level) the more likely.

Do supernatural beings like dragons and such automatically reveal themselves as "using magic" while they have shapes shifted to a human form?

If any of the psychics make their roll, then yes, they are considered using magic. Actually, anyone can be detected by their high PPE even if they aren't using magic. Dragons and other non-humans have an additional penalty in that Dog-Boys at least, also have the same sense of smell as a dog, so there's a pretty good chance the Dragon will be detected as that, even if ALL of the Dog-Boys fail their sense PPE roll.

While seeing the invisible? Regenerating? Natural Invisibility? Flight? Using supernatural strength?

In order: Yes, depends on if its magic generated or not, yes, yes (unless using natural wings), and depends on if the creature is actually supernatural, or simply has equivalent strength.

Follow up question.

Do Atlantean tattoos need to look like they do or is it just a custom / tradition?

They are given a specific description in the book. As long as your tattoo falls within the description WITHOUT adding anything, than no.

For example, can Knight's Armor look like a CS armor?

Look like yes. Be, no.

Can the tattoo be camoflaged with another ordinary tattoos over or next to it?

Next to yes, over no.

Can the GM or the player with GM's permission make new tattoos for other invocation spells or other schools of magic like elemental/Warlock, Russian Fire magic, necromancy, palladium fantasy magic spells or Nature magic.

The GM can make anything he wants. The player however can not. The player is likely playing a USER of tattoos. The tattoo maker however is an NPC only OCC. No players wanted or allowed. :(
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

darthauthor wrote:Would a Dog Boy / Psi-Stalker / Magic user / Psychic using Sense magic "detect" the possessor of magic tattoos even though they are not using them?

Yes. If not via ability #1, then via ability #3 due to the high concentration of PPE.

darthauthor wrote:Do a lot of the CS know about magic tattoos, to the point they if they saw them they would recognize them and attack the party?

Possibly. It really depends on how the CS processes any sightings of T-users using their magic and if they made any connections. And the list of T-users is pretty limited (Elf, Human, Ogre).

[uote="darthauthor"]Do supernatural beings like dragons and such automatically reveal themselves as "using magic" while they have shapes shifted to a human form? While seeing the invisible? Regenerating? Natural Invisibility? Flight? Using supernatural strength?
[/quote]
Using their SN PS no, the rest yes. Remember that these beings are going to have a lot of PPE, which could give them away via #3 ability.

darthauthor wrote:Do Atlantean tattoos need to look like they do or is it just a custom / tradition?

I think you are allowed some flavor w/n a given tattoo based on the Marks of Heritage allowing family crests to be part of the weapon's hilt (WB2 pg16 and pg97).

darthathor wrote:Can the GM or the player with GM's permission make new tattoos for other invocation spells or other schools of magic like elemental/Warlock, Russian Fire magic, necromancy, palladium fantasy magic spells or Nature magic.

The GM can do what they want, but the player NO. The creation of new tattoos is presented as being a rare occurrence given things like Monster Shaping (WB6) and Power Arrow (WB21). In point of fact WB21 mentions that the "Splugorth have struggled for millennia to create new magic tattoos.", so it is not an easy process it would appear (the Chiank-ku creators might be exception to the Splugorth or Atlantean Alchemists).
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darthauthor
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by darthauthor »

Thanks Guys.

Trying to be fair with my players and as one.

I agree about anyone being revealled by their HIGH PPE.

I have to explain to players of baby dragons and Atlantean Undead Slayer why a Dog Boy or Psi-Stalker would sense their existence and location.

Then I think, if I give the explanation to the players where can they go from there?

I think in one case, the player were onboard a cargo ship. The Atlantean slayer was undercover as a sailer/deckhand. The ship gets stopped by a CS inspection boat. An officer along with 2 grunts and a Dog Boy and looking around the ship for D-Bees, creatures of Magic, etc. The captain is paying off the CS officer to let them go.

So if the Atlantean burns off their PPE and just looks like a 6'3" human sailor with tattooes would he look suspcious?

If I understand the responses, the CS probably would not recognize the tattoos but if the Atlantean is not using any of them he would NOT be detected by Sense Magic (if his PPE is under 50).

A supernatural creature like a baby dragon on the other hand, even IF he burned off his PPE to less than 20, while he has shapeshifted to a human and looks like a sailor is highly DETECTABLE. Because while using shapeshifting, even though it is a natural ability, he is "using magic" and as such Sense Magic will detect him.

Although, if he flies with his wings, his "Flight" would not be detected by Sense Magic.

Also, the Psi-stalker or Dog Boy could easily smell the dragon as a dragon regardless of what he had shape shifted into. Could he cover his scent with alcohol or chili powder?

Likewise, supernatural creatures with the natural ability to turn invisible, while invisible are detectable via "Sense Magic" if invisible.
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by killgore444 »

You got it.
darthauthor wrote:Also, the Psi-stalker or Dog Boy could easily smell the dragon as a dragon regardless of what he had shape shifted into. Could he cover his scent with alcohol or chili powder?

As for this, anything that would work against a real world dog would, technically, work against a dog-boy. However, a dog-boy has human level intelligence, and has to ability to speak in English (or whatever you're using). ANYTHING suspicious WILL get mentioned and questioned. And if it smells bad enough to actually cover your sent, the dog-boys may just be annoyed with you enough and make something up just to harass you (they work for an evil empire, what do you expect).

Also, many spells hyped as making spell casters super awesome are literally pointless against dog-boys and psi-stalkers. Shadowmeld being just 1 of many the the dog-boys will see right through.

Me personally, as a GM have created spells and psychic abilities that resist this (if your players are actively involved in anti-CS activieties, then there is a chance someone will make contact and teach them). Likewise, any superpower from HU or similar settings that render you immune or invisible to psionics would be 100% effective.
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by Mack »

Trying to remember if dragons have to breathe... (I recall eating is optional). If they don't, then the dragon could hide under the ship.
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by hup7 »

Alter Aura (RUE p166) can hide both psionics and magic; for 2 ISP and 1 hour per level. You can even conceal physical attributes - though you might want to ask your GM how supernatural PS and normal PS "appear" and if they can be detected.

There are also (RUE p174):
Mask ISP & Psionics; 7 ISP and 10 minutes per level
Mask PPE; 4 ISP and 10 minutes per level

Only take the second ones IF you only have access to Sensitive powers, the Physical power is way better.

Edit: Before we go down the rabbit hole of Alter Aura only affects See Aura and Psionics...

"Can a character use Alter Aura to hide the presence of a Practitioner of Magic from beings like Dog Boys?
Yes, Alter Aura can be used to hide a Practitioner of Magic from a Dog Boy, but it will not conceal active magic, spell casting or magic items." (Rifter #25 Q&A p93)

But as always discuss with your GM.
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darthauthor
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by darthauthor »

Thanks hup7

Without precautions the characters are giving themselves away.

I just, as a GM, want to understand how they can avoid being caught.

Either by burning off PPE via spell casting or masking it the players can avoid detection by the PPE. That just leaves some of them being supernatural in one way or another.

Like the Atlantean Undead Slayer being MD with supernatural PS. Now they can use up the PPE and just look like a guy with tattoos. Undectable. Unless, maybe, they are see his aura and looking for the magic or supernatural.

I am trying to create adventures where the players have to James Bond it until the situation calls for a fight. I have to set things up so there's an army of overkill in front of them so they don't murder hobo.

It feels like, its the only way to stop them from starting a fight is to put an unkillable army as their opposition. Except they run.

So I have to have fair rules for hunting them. Rules in the book. Rules the players can get around if they get creative or roleplay. I have had some success with using NPCs to showcase how to con/bluff/stealth/computer hack/lock pick/tunnel their way above, around, over, through, under with abilities, psionic, roleplaying, skills, and spells.

No combat.

Then the adventurers hit a wall because they had built their characters as Over Powered war machines.

I should really be asking how they want to play or what parts of adventures are fun for them. They don't seem to know themselves. Only that it is no fun to bow, get beaten, bullied or captured, or run away, most of the time.
Its strange how it happens in every 007 James Bond movie. It wouldn't be 007 if there wasn't a chase / get away scene. It is signature for him to waltz around getting clues, then get caught and escape the villains trap and the parkour or car chase ensues.

Boring is the Hulk one-punching a SDC henchman until they flee in fear.

So I included a way, in almost every encounter, for the characters to out wit, out maneuver their way to victory without fighting but i guess its not satifying for them or they have no interest in such approaches or its so "new" to them it doesn't excite them.

I love it when the players out smart or out maneuver their opponents. Winning the game by more than "just" firepower and brute force
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Re: Magic and PPE detection

Unread post by Grazzik »

Well, you could always play your players' expectations against them

Spoiler:
Have them made safe from detection by a being of great power. This being does so in the hope they will help find out information or retrieve an artifact that will save a community/refugees/prevent a catastrophe. However, stipulate that no blood should be spilled by a person while holding the artifact or something to that effect as the being's power flows from goodness and the purity of universal light, or some such silliness. In exchange they'll receive a rare boon of some kind - something really unique to interest the players themselves like some non-canon PC mod.
Spoiler:
However, it's all a con. The being was toying with the PCs (the mission is so that if the PCs lose or end up killing a bad guy, the being takes great delight... maybe offering soothing comfort and a second chance to try again) or, if they succeed, the being turns out to be a threat even greater than the bad guys the PCs faced on the mission (greater demon, evil god, juvenile AI looking to get some laughs, etc.). In fact, the PCs were coerced into unknowingly compromising something good the bad guys were doing - eg. turning off the power to the secret holding facility also turns off the power at the nearby dam causing the dam to burst and destroying a town. Drop a few hints here and there about the being's motivations in such a way that the PCs think they are red herrings - eg. highly suspicious CS intel files on a new supernatural player in the area.

Let the tension build for the grand reveal of the deception and a face off with a few high powered henchmen, while the being makes a carefree exit out a waiting rift.

Then, after defeating the evil, put the players in a situation where they wish they still had the protection of the evil being. Perhaps back on a boat about to be searched.

Follow up:
* A choice could be to try track down the being or prevent further incursions.
* They could be solicited by a rival being, but suffer a case of "one bitten, twice shy". The drama would be great if they didn't suffer groupthink and had different opinions injecting a schism of trust into the party.
* They could perhaps be persuaded to assist the innocents that they put at risk in order to make amends...perhaps use some obscure skills in doing so... under threat of a degrade of alignment if they ignore the pleas of the suffering.
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