how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness ?

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Axelmania
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how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness ?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Pg 190 of Dimension Book 12 (Dimensional Outbreak) seems like it could lead to many demons having PPE amounts much higher than their normal racial quantities...

You'd think that any demons who did know this would be trying to use it lots and lots to build up their reserves, right? That and it can give you spells too, which I tend to forget under the munchkin assumption that I will have unlimited wealth and willing teachers to buy tutelage of existing spells from so only the permanent PPE matters...

I'm sorta wondering about cumulative use too. Say for example you have bad luck and always roll the minimum 10% of PPE theft and 5 spells, and then you beat the odds and Resurrect them despite the -20%.

If they originally had 10 spells and 100 PPE, they'll come back with 5 spells and 90 PPE. If you repeat the ritual on them, do you steal their remaining 5 spells?

The PPE is a tougher question since it's non-static: do you steal 10% of their new current amount (9/90) or of their initial amount or of their original amount (another 10% of 100 = 10)

Plus should that -20% be cumulative so they'll be -40% the next time? That has the benefit of limiting how much spells/PPE you can get from a target, but has the downside of making HOD the perfect way to make an enemy progressively non-resurrectable, whereas a fixed -20% would mean some super-god could always bring them back.

I'm sort of at a loss as to how you go about learning Demon Magic too... pg 177 does say:
    only known to demons, dark gods, Blood Mages, Soulmancers, evil Wizards and other practitioners steeped in dark and nefarious arts

Even if you took "evil wizards" to refer to the Palladium RPG's OCC, there's probably a decent amount of them who are evil, what with all of them for some reason knowing a ritual involving the drinking of human blood to learn spells...

Plus "other practitioners" is incredibly flexible-sounding, I'd certainly think it would apply to many-a-Shifter.

Soul Harvesters seem like prime candidates to learn this. They can already steal PPE+spells using their OCC ability but they have limited storage space for that, so I think they would love to have HOD.

We're also told "The Splugorth" know this magic, though I'm not exactly sure which members of them. The AIs? High Lords? The witches?

In terms of starting spells / spells from level-up it's not entirely clear what OCCs might be able to select these....

"as do Demon Priests, Demon High Priests" sounds like both these OCCs can learn them, even though looking at DB10, pg 29 and pg 30 only list fixed spells known at specific levels... no optional selections. The verbs used as "taught" + "acquire" though... so would this mean the DPs and DHPs only have guaranteed (guideline?) minimums and they can be taught other spells too, just like LLWs / Shifters?

It's weird since usually Priests seem more like Mystics where they can't be taught spells.
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Nekira Sudacne
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Re: how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Well the book itself sort of gives the answer. For a long time it was "Nearly extinct", being practiced mostly by demons and dark gods, with the occasional Soulmancer and Blood Mage, or evil mage of random sorts (Presumably some Shifters and and necromancers here or there".

There is also a note saying that Blood Druids use the blood-based Demon spells.

But it also says that it is currently "Spreading rapidly" Sinse the advent of the minion war, especially amoung those who associate with demon cults or evil alignments.

But, Not exclusive to those with demon cults.

So basically to answer your question is that their utility is such that it's spreading rapidly and anyone with a moral alignment south of Unprincipled can probablly pick them up. Anyone who can learn standard invocations (And apparently even some who can't, see blood druids) can learn them.
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Re: how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness

Unread post by Axelmania »

"Blood based spells are also used by the Blood Druids of Europe" might not necessarily refer to the Demon magic, but rather their OCC Powers like (England 146) "see the future" or "learn about" or "heal and regenerate". They're not explicitly called spells, but the 7th ability is basically a spell (Turn Dead) so it's on the table.

Stone Masters can apparently learn that ritual in Merctown that makes gargoyle golems so yeah, gettin' flexible.

I wish I understood why an Anarchist (but not an Aberrant) would be forced to become Miscreant just because they ate the heart of a supernatural being to steal their PPE and spells. What if that being was a menace who was getting a death penalty anyway for wiping out thousands of innocents and that PPE+spells could be used to heal/protect survivors?
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Re: how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Axelmania wrote:"Blood based spells are also used by the Blood Druids of Europe" might not necessarily refer to the Demon magic, but rather their OCC Powers like (England 146) "see the future" or "learn about" or "heal and regenerate". They're not explicitly called spells, but the 7th ability is basically a spell (Turn Dead) so it's on the table.


OCC powers are not spells, so that wouldn't make any sense.

I wish I understood why an Anarchist (but not an Aberrant) would be forced to become Miscreant just because they ate the heart of a supernatural being to steal their PPE and spells. What if that being was a menace who was getting a death penalty anyway for wiping out thousands of innocents and that PPE+spells could be used to heal/protect survivors?


Because in Palladium uses objective morality and not results-based morality. some actions are inherently evil regardless of context, and performing one such action, no matter how much good results, is still evil.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

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Re: how common is Demon Magic particularly Heart of Darkness

Unread post by Axelmania »

Strangely enough, if you were to eat the heart of a supernatural being without doing a soul-searing ritual, you could probably swing that as Principled.

I mean... you might do this even not for personal power, but to prevent the resurrection of an evil thing which keeps getting resurrected all the time.
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