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 Post subject: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:18 am
  

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Does this mean (from fleets of the three galaxies) that cosmo-knights do full damage to vampires or at least half damage and can destroy them?

Spoiler:
Even defining “cosmic energy” is difficult. Scientifically, it is a mixture of protons, alpha particles, and heavy atomic nuclei. It behaves like a laser,but has similar wave mechanics to a particle beam. It affects
magical constructs, and shares many of the supernatural attributes of sunlight, even though it contains no photons. Cosmic energy has absolutely no radioactive signature or aftereffects. Cosmo-Knights can generate it by will alone, making many think it is somehow related to the phenomenon called zero-point energy. In short, no one knows what it is or where it comes from


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:57 am
  

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As a GM I would have it that it does have a mystical aspect. And thus able to harm those that are immune to mundane damage.

Destroying a Vampire....I would leave that as a story element y/n.

As in, was this vamp just a passing mook, or was this a recurring baddie sort of choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:36 pm
  

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Nuristas wrote:
Does this mean (from fleets of the three galaxies) that cosmo-knights do full damage to vampires or at least half damage and can destroy them?

Spoiler:
Even defining “cosmic energy” is difficult. Scientifically, it is a mixture of protons, alpha particles, and heavy atomic nuclei. It behaves like a laser,but has similar wave mechanics to a particle beam. It affects
magical constructs, and shares many of the supernatural attributes of sunlight, even though it contains no photons. Cosmic energy has absolutely no radioactive signature or aftereffects. Cosmo-Knights can generate it by will alone, making many think it is somehow related to the phenomenon called zero-point energy. In short, no one knows what it is or where it comes from

This is the way I always treated cosmic energy from the time DB 2 came out but the simple fact is that with the nature of the blasts it is still easier to cripple the vampire and then stake and decapitate them while they are down. Burn them down with just CE will cost a lot of attacks and a lot of PPE.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:01 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
Nuristas wrote:
Does this mean (from fleets of the three galaxies) that cosmo-knights do full damage to vampires or at least half damage and can destroy them?

Spoiler:
Even defining “cosmic energy” is difficult. Scientifically, it is a mixture of protons, alpha particles, and heavy atomic nuclei. It behaves like a laser,but has similar wave mechanics to a particle beam. It affects
magical constructs, and shares many of the supernatural attributes of sunlight, even though it contains no photons. Cosmic energy has absolutely no radioactive signature or aftereffects. Cosmo-Knights can generate it by will alone, making many think it is somehow related to the phenomenon called zero-point energy. In short, no one knows what it is or where it comes from

This is the way I always treated cosmic energy from the time DB 2 came out but the simple fact is that with the nature of the blasts it is still easier to cripple the vampire and then stake and decapitate them while they are down. Burn them down with just CE will cost a lot of attacks and a lot of PPE.


Hiya Warshield.

Your basic Cosmic blast does not cost anything (it's only the amped ones that can be used outside in space that have a cost, unless I am very mistaken)
So shooting down a mook vampire would not take that long, especially not if you are a bit higher level doing 2d6*10 or even 3d6*10 per blast.

This also brought up the idea, if it's solar powered, how does their regen handle that?


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:02 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
As a GM I would have it that it does have a mystical aspect. And thus able to harm those that are immune to mundane damage.

Destroying a Vampire....I would leave that as a story element y/n.

As in, was this vamp just a passing mook, or was this a recurring baddie sort of choice.


I totally get that point.
And it make sense. I'm just trying to find out what the "rules" analysis would tell us.
Afterwards according to rule 0: what the GM wants, is what the GM gets. Just needs to be discussed beforehand. (preferably)


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:54 pm
  

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meh, they're strong enough, no harm in having them need to use stakes like everyone else


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:41 pm
  

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Unless otherwise stated, cosmic energy is NOT sunlight, nor is it magical. It is a mysterious energy, but having good color text doesn't bestow any abilities beyond the text.

The text doesn't say it harms vampires, nor does it say it leaves a trail of skittles wherever it hits. Since neither are in the text, I don't see any reason for vampires to die in a skittle fountain.

Color text =/= game stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:35 pm
  

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ITWastrel wrote:
Unless otherwise stated, cosmic energy is NOT sunlight, nor is it magical. It is a mysterious energy, but having good color text doesn't bestow any abilities beyond the text.

The text doesn't say it harms vampires, nor does it say it leaves a trail of skittles wherever it hits. Since neither are in the text, I don't see any reason for vampires to die in a skittle fountain.

Color text =/= game stats.

Never said it was sunlight. I very much said how I would have it be as a GM, that is would have a "mystical aspect".

Why did I come to this choice? Because the Cosmo Knight is made/empowered by a mystical force (deity, AI....WhatEverrrrr...) and the RCC descriptive text reads (if not explicitly) that they are inherently mystical in nature. This means their natural abilities are mystical in nature.

examples of things that are mystical that are not necessarily magical...
Psionics is mystical in nature.
Chi Mastery powers are mystical in nature
super abilities......some are and some are not. (I would put the dividing line on how the powers were acquired.)
NB Talents are mystical in nature

As to the canon Character Class descriptive text....Where in the PB canon text say to ignore it? This statement "Color text =/= game stats." sound much like a house rule to me. And it has been spouted off many times in these board without any canon text to support it.

The CC descriptive text is important text. It does tell us In What Light to look at the class stats in.

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Answering the OP's question with the canon answer should be done First.
After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:00 pm
  

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Comment: They/Them
WB2 pg 99 states that Cosmo-Knights are supernatural beings. Unlike words such as cosmic or mystical this phrase is defined within the context of Palladium games. At a minimum C-Ks can use their Supernatural P.S. to inflict damage to vampires, but whether or not other attacks at their disposal are capable of such is left ambiguous. To the extent that a Cosmic Weapon is composed of the same unworldly material as a C-K's armor and is considered to be a living part of the knight, I would say that while the additional damage of the weapon is not applied to attacks versus vampires the weapon may be used to inflict the knight's Supernatural P.S. damage. The knight's Cosmic Blasts, being of an ill-defined ilk, should likely not be considered capable of damaging a being with exactingly specific vulnerabilities if for no other reason than, as ITWastrel and Axlemania suggested above, it's reading into a situation to give benefits to characters whom do not need it.

When people make arguments about how PB's game engine could use a revamp, it's for situations like this. The value of a robust descriptor system in rpgs, particularly for genres often involving multiple energy types like space adventure and supers, is self-evident.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:05 pm
  

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Magic PPE is Cosmic Energy.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:31 pm
  

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Personally, I run it as mystical in nature. Fully capable of harming anything that is only able to be harmed by magic. I wouldn't allow a vampire do be destroyed by it, but definitely reduced to ash and needing to regenerate.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:09 pm
  

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Whiskeyjack wrote:
Personally, I run it as mystical in nature. Fully capable of harming anything that is only able to be harmed by magic. I wouldn't allow a vampire do be destroyed by it, but definitely reduced to ash and needing to regenerate.


Counterpoint, the Silver Surfer's master, Galactus, has battled Mephisto - and hurt him.
If that can happen cosmic energy is definitely going to permanently a mere vampire.

Those wielding this type of energy are likely to slapping master vamps aside and battling the Vampire intelligence itself!


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:43 pm
  

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Rogerd wrote:
Counterpoint, the Silver Surfer's master, Galactus, has battled Mephisto - and hurt him.
If that can happen cosmic energy is definitely going to permanently a mere vampire.

Those wielding this type of energy are likely to slapping master vamps aside and battling the Vampire intelligence itself!


Counter counter point. Neither of those beings exist in the Palladium Megaverse.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:14 am
  

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Whiskeyjack wrote:
Counter counter point. Neither of those beings exist in the Palladium Megaverse.


The trouble here is that Palladium still has magic, psi, and cosmic energy.
Instead replacing the Marvel main three with two opposed factions, demons and devils.

So your logic is flawed here, badly so.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:42 am
  

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What are you even talking about?


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:45 pm
  

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Comment: They/Them
Just because two geeky things trod similar ground doesn't mean one must necessarily reflect the other. Just like how D&D is better suited to produce a D&D experience than Lord of the Rings, Heroes Unlimited doesn't so much emulate 4 color comics as be a fairly idiosyncratic take on the genre.

While the Silver Surfer was at least initially very much intended as a Christ-myth analogue, and Cosmo-Knights' relationship with the Cosmic Forge could be similarly construed, actions taken by one don't necessarily inform rule adjudication for the other.

As I suggested earlier, in a 3G game I'd consider a Cosmo-Knight's cosmic energy blasts to not affect vampires due to a combination of Cosmic energy being ill-defined and saving a little game space for other classes. Others might prefer to personally define Cosmic as being space-themed abilities which interact freely with magic and the supernatural.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:00 pm
  

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Rogerd wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
Counter counter point. Neither of those beings exist in the Palladium Megaverse.


The trouble here is that Palladium still has magic, psi, and cosmic energy.
Instead replacing the Marvel main three with two opposed factions, demons and devils.

So your logic is flawed here, badly so.


The three standard mystical energies in the PB system are PPE, ISP, and Chi.

Cosmic Energy is a class specific item, that is more like a super power than anything else because it comes in the form of a Energy Expulsion type power. It just has a weirdly defined form of energy that isn't in the real world, nor is it found anywhere else in the PB game booksThat I can think of.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:25 am
  

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Whiskeyjack wrote:
What are you even talking about?


I gave examples in other comic media where cosmic energy has done really hokey stuff, e.g. harm a Hell-Lord. Then your counter is that they do not exist in Palladium when in fact they do in the form of Demon or Devil Lords, e.g. Satan who was then retconned into Sathaulus or some rubbish name like that.

So by those facts, your logic is terrible mate.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The three standard mystical energies in the PB system are PPE, ISP, and Chi.
Cosmic Energy is a class specific item


All of the four energies are class specific.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:53 am
  

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Sorry Rogerd, but saying that characters in different mediums share some similar appearances therefore they are the same is ridiculous reasoning. Nothing in Palladiums books remotely works the same way it does in Marvel comics.
You may personally say they are the same, but that is your own personal opinion that has no basis in reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:04 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The three standard mystical energies in the PB system are PPE, ISP, and Chi.
Cosmic Energy is a class specific item


All of the four energies are class specific.[/quote]


Chi, PPE, and ISP are traits possessed by multiple classes, monsters, and sometimes machines.

"Cosmic Energy" is only used by one class, the Cosmo Knight.

The Cosmo Knight has come great color text, and it's easy to assign powers you've seen the silver surfer or the Cosmic Armor Superman use against whomever, but in this case, we're talking about ONLY what's in the official game texts.

Now, if in your game cosmic power has extra benefits, rock on, but that's house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:51 pm
  

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Whiskeyjack wrote:
Sorry Rogerd, but saying that characters in different mediums share some similar appearances therefore they are the same is ridiculous reasoning. Nothing in Palladiums books remotely works the same way it does in Marvel comics.

You may personally say they are the same, but that is your own personal opinion that has no basis in reality.


No, it is drawing a correlation, or noting similarities of which there are many. Now as cosmic energy is ill defined you need to draw a similarity from somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:12 pm
  

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Rogerd wrote:
No, it is drawing a correlation, or noting similarities of which there are many. Now as cosmic energy is ill defined you need to draw a similarity from somewhere.


You can draw similarities from where ever you want, but they have no bearing on Palladiums works. You're just stating an out and out house rule as the way it is because you think it's similar to another license that you like. Last time I checked, Silver Surfer received his powers from a world devouring being, not from the Cosmic Forge. Which is what you would expect since they are completely different properties with their own lore.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:50 pm
  

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Rogerd wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The three standard mystical energies in the PB system are PPE, ISP, and Chi.
Cosmic Energy is a class specific item


All of the four energies are class specific.


ALL humans have 3D6 PPE, And other races will have their own levels PPE. Both of these are without the character learning to be a mage, or being granted magic powers. Unless they used the perm PPE to buy their Psionic powers.

ALL mortals have Chi+ equal to their PE attribute score. (Acording to R3 the SN has chi equal to their PE score doubled.)

It is only ISP that is limited to PCCs & some psychic RCCs, if you discount the RC2 Martal Arts.

Cosmic E. is limited to exactly One Class. Which is why I stated what I said the way I stated it.

And before anyone points out the Fallen CK sub class, I will point out it is a sub-class that got their powers when they were a CK. (if FCK loose their CE blasts....well I ether sold my PW book or it's put away in storage so I can't just look it up.)

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After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:14 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Rogerd wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The three standard mystical energies in the PB system are PPE, ISP, and Chi.
Cosmic Energy is a class specific item


All of the four energies are class specific.


ALL humans have 3D6 PPE, And other races will have their own levels PPE. Both of these are without the character learning to be a mage, or being granted magic powers. Unless they used the perm PPE to buy their Psionic powers.

ALL mortals have Chi+ equal to their PE attribute score. (Acording to R3 the SN has chi equal to their PE score doubled.)

It is only ISP that is limited to PCCs & some psychic RCCs, if you discount the RC2 Martal Arts.

Cosmic E. is limited to exactly One Class. Which is why I stated what I said the way I stated it.

And before anyone points out the Fallen CK sub class, I will point out it is a sub-class that got their powers when they were a CK. (if FCK loose their CE blasts....well I ether sold my PW book or it's put away in storage so I can't just look it up.)

I think it's important to point out that CKs don't carry cosmic energy, there is no roll 3D6 for how many cosmic energy points, they use PPE or there own life (MDC) to generate a blast of cosmic energy much the way a mage would use PPE to generate fire or lightning or even particle beam blast.

Also, CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:37 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
ALL humans have 3D6 PPE, And other races will have their own levels PPE. Both of these are without the character learning to be a mage, or being granted magic powers. Unless they used the perm PPE to buy their Psionic powers.

ALL mortals have Chi+ equal to their PE attribute score. (Acording to R3 the SN has chi equal to their PE score doubled.)

It is only ISP that is limited to PCCs & some psychic RCCs, if you discount the RC2 Martal Arts.

Cosmic E. is limited to exactly One Class. Which is why I stated what I said the way I stated it.

And before anyone points out the Fallen CK sub class, I will point out it is a sub-class that got their powers when they were a CK. (if FCK loose their CE blasts....well I ether sold my PW book or it's put away in storage so I can't just look it up.)


The Fallen CK no longer uses Cosmic Blasts. They have a dark energy blast that is powered by magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:42 am
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
I think it's important to point out that CKs don't carry cosmic energy, there is no roll 3D6 for how many cosmic energy points, they use PPE or there own life (MDC) to generate a blast of cosmic energy much the way a mage would use PPE to generate fire or lightning or even particle beam blast.

Also, CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.


The Cosmo Knight only actually needs to use PPE if they want to increase the power of their blasts (50 to double, 100 to increase by 5 times in space only). Otherwise they can shoot all day without limitation. Their MDC is used to power their faster than light flight (30 PPE and 30 MDC).


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:58 pm
  

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Whiskeyjack wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I think it's important to point out that CKs don't carry cosmic energy, there is no roll 3D6 for how many cosmic energy points, they use PPE or there own life (MDC) to generate a blast of cosmic energy much the way a mage would use PPE to generate fire or lightning or even particle beam blast.

Also, CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.


The Cosmo Knight only actually needs to use PPE if they want to increase the power of their blasts (50 to double, 100 to increase by 5 times in space only). Otherwise they can shoot all day without limitation. Their MDC is used to power their faster than light flight (30 PPE and 30 MDC).

True, but my point was that cosmic energy is essential a weapon like fire, particle beams, and lightning not a depletable power source like PPE, ISP, or Chi.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:57 pm
  

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]
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Cosmic E. is limited to exactly One Class. Which is why I stated what I said the way I stated it.


Warshield73 wrote:
Also, CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.


Was I incorrect in my statement? You sure look like you are trying to make it look like I am.
If you think I am incorrect, then cite The Class that you are implying exists the also shoots out CE blasts.
Just remember, equipment is not a class, and can be stolen.

If you just meant that you were agreeing with me to the point of forgetting to say that you were agreeing with me before adding something else to the topic, then you really should say that you agree with me instead leaving that part out.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:07 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
]
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Cosmic E. is limited to exactly One Class. Which is why I stated what I said the way I stated it.


Warshield73 wrote:
Also, CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.


Was I incorrect in my statement? You sure look like you are trying to make it look like I am.
If you think I am incorrect, then cite The Class that you are implying exists the also shoots out CE blasts.
Just remember, equipment is not a class, and can be stolen.

If you just meant that you were agreeing with me to the point of forgetting to say that you were agreeing with me before adding something else to the topic, then you really should say that you agree with me instead leaving that part out.

First I did not say you were wrong so don't take it personally. My main point is what you snipped out

Warshield73 wrote:
I think it's important to point out that CKs don't carry cosmic energy, there is no roll 3D6 for how many cosmic energy points, they use PPE or there own life (MDC) to generate a blast of cosmic energy much the way a mage would use PPE to generate fire or lightning or even particle beam blast.

Cosmic Energy is not a source of power to generate effects like PPE or ISP which is what it is being compared. CE is an effect that is generated within the CK which requires PPE for heavy blasts. I took no position on if you were right or wrong as I didn't care but I felt that the constant comparison of PPE/ISP/Chi with CE was confusing the issue.

I also pointed out that Dominators have tech that can generate CE. I did not say it was there class for whatever that is worth. It is important to note that DB 13: Fleets of the Three Galaxies, Pg. 48 in the section on Dominator tech does give the only description of what CE actually is although that definition is close to useless. Hope this clears it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:45 pm
  

Hero

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 1263
Comment: They/Them
Whiskeyjack, a Fallen Cosmo-Knight doesn't necessarily have any access to Cosmic energy outside of that involved in their transformation (see below). The Demon Knight from DB12 pp. 110-114 does have an antimatter blast which is described as cosmic.

Classes which have potential access to abilities using the word Cosmic (nonexhaustive):

DB2 Cosmo-Knight
DB12 Demon Knight
DB15 Superhero with Power Cosmic and/or Magic:Outer Space
RCB1 classes with the HU power Super-Regeneration
Any magic users capable of learning the DB13 Space Magic spells Cosmic Ray/Cosmic Armor/Cosmic Force Field

There are a great many things which could be argued to be included, particularly those themed around outer space or rare energy. Conversely Super-Regeneration only uses the word in miniscule, and much like in the Space Magic spell Impervious to Vacuum the usage of the word cosmic should often be likely considered less a pseudo-descriptor than just a conventional adjective.

Given the CK's vulnerability to magic and overall strength I think an inability to blast vampires has a definite narrative appeal, especially if a Demon Knight's cosmic anti-matter blast works normally.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:54 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Location: Eastvale, calif
It might be easier to understand, for those that are lost, to say that 'If cosmo knight mixes in some its PPE into their Cosmic Energy blasts, the mixing produces an enhancement to the CE blasts. Producing heavier CE blasts.'
---
It was this phrase ...." CKs are not the only people that can generate these blasts, "... that was saying that I was wrong in my statement that CK are the only Class...in other words 'people'...can produce CE blasts. And in the form it was written it was incorrect.

If the sentence had been written in the following form it would not of said I was wrong in my correct statement.
(the following example: 'Also, the Dominator Starsplitter weapon fires cosmic energy blasts and I believe a few other things do to.' )

The way you present something can imply something you didn't intend. So be careful.

_________________
Answering the OP's question with the canon answer should be done First.
After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

May you be blessed with understanding,
and the ability to change course when you are off the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:38 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 215
Whiskeyjack wrote:
You can draw similarities from where ever you want, but they have no bearing on Palladiums works. You're just stating an out and out house rule as the way it is because you think it's similar to another license that you like. Last time I checked, Silver Surfer received his powers from a world devouring being, not from the Cosmic Forge. Which is what you would expect since they are completely different properties with their own lore.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.
So without anymore detail on cosmic energy we can only draw a correlation from somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:03 pm
  

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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:35 pm
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Location: Thunder Bay, NW Ontario
Rogerd wrote:
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.
So without anymore detail on cosmic energy we can only draw a correlation from somewhere.

No, YOU can apparently only draw a correlation from somewhere. I'm fully capable of using my own imagination to provide for how things work in my worlds without copying something from another property because it uses a same word.
I'm guessing your trolls turn to stone in sunlight since Tolkien's do? Since they are both trolls, they must follow identical rules according to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:23 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 215
Whiskeyjack wrote:
No, YOU can apparently only draw a correlation from somewhere. I'm fully capable of using my own imagination to provide for how things work in my worlds without copying something from another property because it uses a same word.


No offense, but nothing in your comments suggest that you are; only using existing, and poorly written out rules regarding it.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
I'm guessing your trolls turn to stone in sunlight since Tolkien's do? Since they are both trolls, they must follow identical rules according to you.


I don't have trolls as they are lame.
I have a variety of setting that have a variety of fantasy races that came about due to different reasons. For instance I have in my version of Palladium Fantasy, Midgard (5e) as a prior age.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:49 am
  

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Location: Thunder Bay, NW Ontario
That's all there is in Palladium.
And I was quite clear on how I interpret the rules for MY games.
You however, came in and went off on so many tangents you were incomprehensible.
Somehow on a question on whether a Cosmo Knights cosmic blast could destroy vampires you brought up the Silver Surfer, Galactus and Mephisto from Marvel Comics, demons, deevils and Satan. And you presented this all as being cannon for Palladium. Because its how it works in comic books. That's seriously your argument. Comic books. That's just plain asinine.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:06 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 215
Whiskeyjack wrote:
You however, came in and went off on so many tangents you were incomprehensible.


This is just garbage.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Somehow on a question on whether a Cosmo Knights cosmic blast could destroy vampires you brought up the Silver Surfer, Galactus and Mephisto from Marvel Comics, demons, deevils and Satan. And you presented this all as being cannon for Palladium. Because its how it works in comic books.


Because the Palladium rules are so incomplete - shocker! as to provide little to no useful information. Not the least of which Satan was in Palladium Fantasy 1e before they decided to change it. And devils and demons ARE canon for Palladium, with demon and devil lords too boot (each very akin to the Hell-Lords from Marvel). So again your entire argument falls rather flat.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
And I was quite clear on how I interpret the rules for MY games.


I have underlined the key component in your argument - interpret, because there is no useful information in the books. This again leaves us with comparisons with other works of fiction in order to make some determinations, parallels, or comparisons.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
That's seriously your argument. Comic books. That's just plain asinine.


No, it is common sense as it gives us a comparison point.
And trying to say otherwise proves your churlish behaviour just because comics are used.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:56 pm
  

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Rogerd wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
You however, came in and went off on so many tangents you were incomprehensible.


This is just garbage.


No it's not. Not only were you all over the place, but your sentences are literally incomprehensible. They do contain words, sure, but that's about it.
Below is your quote. It is gibberish.

The trouble here is that Palladium still has magic, psi, and cosmic energy.
Instead replacing the Marvel main three with two opposed factions, demons and devils.

Rogerd wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
Somehow on a question on whether a Cosmo Knights cosmic blast could destroy vampires you brought up the Silver Surfer, Galactus and Mephisto from Marvel Comics, demons, deevils and Satan. And you presented this all as being cannon for Palladium. Because its how it works in comic books.


Because the Palladium rules are so incomplete - shocker! as to provide little to no useful information. Not the least of which Satan was in Palladium Fantasy 1e before they decided to change it. And devils and demons ARE canon for Palladium, with demon and devil lords too boot (each very akin to the Hell-Lords from Marvel). So again your entire argument falls rather flat.


And once again, the question was about VAMPIRES. Which are neither demons or deevils.

Rogerd wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
And I was quite clear on how I interpret the rules for MY games.


I have underlined the key component in your argument - interpret, because there is no useful information in the books. This again leaves us with comparisons with other works of fiction in order to make some determinations, parallels, or comparisons.


Or, you know, use your own imagination to come up with something instead of ripping off something else.

Rogerd wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
That's seriously your argument. Comic books. That's just plain asinine.


No, it is common sense as it gives us a comparison point.
And trying to say otherwise proves your churlish behaviour just because comics are used.


It's not because they're comics, it's because they're a completely different intellectual property and medium. Palladium is a roleplaying game, not a Marvel Comic. They're not the same. You're the only person in this thread who is unable to separate the two for some reason. Now if you had said that you run it your way because you like it being similar to silver surfers powers, that would have been fine. But you came in and said anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong because demons and deevils and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated before. It's how you play your game. That's fine. It's not how I or most others who have responded do. And that's fine. But how you run your game is not "right" or "cannon". It's simply how you homebrew your rules at your table.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:03 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 215
Whiskeyjack wrote:
No it's not. Not only were you all over the place, but your sentences are literally incomprehensible. They do contain words, sure, but that's about it.
Below is your quote. It is gibberish.

The trouble here is that Palladium still has magic, psi, and cosmic energy.
Instead replacing the Marvel main three with two opposed factions, demons and devils.


Nope, you're talking rubbish again.
Below is the full quoted part of the conversation - not your dishonest abridged version.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Personally, I run it as mystical in nature. Fully capable of harming anything that is only able to be harmed by magic. I wouldn't allow a vampire do be destroyed by it, but definitely reduced to ash and needing to regenerate.

Rogerd wrote:
Counterpoint, the Silver Surfer's master, Galactus, has battled Mephisto - and hurt him.
If that can happen cosmic energy is definitely going to permanently a mere vampire.
Those wielding this type of energy are likely to slapping master vamps aside and battling the Vampire intelligence itself!

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Counter counter point. Neither of those beings exist in the Palladium Megaverse.

Rogerd wrote:
The trouble here is that Palladium still has magic, psi, and cosmic energy.
Instead replacing the Marvel main three with two opposed factions, demons and devils.
So your logic is flawed here, badly so.


During the above quotes you stated that you would run it as mystical. I then gave examples from media relating to the use of cosmic energy as a help or aid. And your attempt to push the examples aside as the beings do not exist in Palladium, although they do albeit under different names as either demons or devils. Then I was commenting that PB also has magic, psi, and cosmic energy the same as Marvel, also providing a linking point, such that they are not that different. So no, it is not gibberish, and when shown together the conversation makes perfect sense.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
And once again, the question was about VAMPIRES. Which are neither demons or deevils.


No, the point you are trying to dismiss, as you have been proven utterly wrong is that certain ideas are very similar whether comics, rpgs, cartoon, films, tv etc. And PB is not exempt from that. Plus the fact that both vampires, and demons / devils are all immune to mundane weapons. So if cosmic energy can harm one type of being immune to normal weapons, then it should harm another - in principle alone.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
They're not the same. You're the only person in this thread who is unable to separate the two for some reason.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
They're not the same. You're the only person in this thread who is unable to separate the two for some reason.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Or, you know, use your own imagination to come up with something instead of ripping off something else.


Which you clearly are not doing as it states clearly that cosmic energy is mystical in the PB books. And quite frankly my above posts are proof of my imagination due to finding a commonality and link between the two powers to help guide me how it might, or might not work. So you have literally agreed with me here.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
It's not because they're comics, it's because they're a completely different intellectual property and medium. Palladium is a roleplaying game, not a Marvel Comic.


Marvel was also an rpg, and will be again.
And IP has beg all to do with this.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Now if you had said that you run it your way because you like it being similar to silver surfers powers, that would have been fine. But you came in and said anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong because demons and deevils and blah, blah, blah.


No, that is your schtick, by relentlessly bit ching about how they are different. I just point out how they are similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:44 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 17187
Location: Eastvale, calif
The Ck's Cosmic Energy blasts are more analagus to the HU Energy Expulsion powers. Since we are talking about a 'energy' that does not come from the Real World it is like the E.Ex. Shadow power than any magic or psi powers.

Then again, postulating, it might be that the HU E.Ex. powers might be an expresession the Cosmic Energy that CKs shoot. But in the cases of supers using CE, they can only channal one aspect of it. Leading to the different types of E.Ex. powers. But since the CK's have been modified by <something I forgot the name of> to be able to channal all of the aspects of the Cosmic Energy.

The one thing I know is that saying it is the same power/energy from some comic book is closer to the no conversions rule than I would want to go.

_________________
Answering the OP's question with the canon answer should be done First.
After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

May you be blessed with understanding,
and the ability to change course when you are off the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:58 am
  

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Explorer

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm
Posts: 137
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The Ck's Cosmic Energy blasts are more analagus to the HU Energy Expulsion powers. Since we are talking about a 'energy' that does not come from the Real World it is like the E.Ex. Shadow power than any magic or psi powers.

Then again, postulating, it might be that the HU E.Ex. powers might be an expresession the Cosmic Energy that CKs shoot. But in the cases of supers using CE, they can only channal one aspect of it. Leading to the different types of E.Ex. powers. But since the CK's have been modified by <something I forgot the name of> to be able to channal all of the aspects of the Cosmic Energy.

The one thing I know is that saying it is the same power/energy from some comic book is closer to the no conversions rule than I would want to go.



But what COLOR is "Cosmic Energy"? Plasma is colorful, often red, green, blue, or purple. Lasers are Red/Blue/Green, and Particle beams are blue-white, judging from Robotech's SDF-1 main gun. (per TV show)

What color is Cosmic energy? For My CKs, it's bright, white-hot at it's core, and run through with the same color as the CK's armor. You can identify a known CK on the battlefield by the color of their blasts/force fields/etc.

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Color text =/= Game stats


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:15 am
  

Hero

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 1263
Comment: They/Them
The Cosmic Ray spell's effect is described as being white, while Cosmo-Knights and Power, Cosmic don't suggest a hue. Since C-Ks armor and weapon can be any one color to have it as an accent seems as flavorful a choice as any. Perhaps if one wants their table's C-Ks to be less Silver Surfer than Rom, Spaceknight then the blasts could be more overtly color-coded.

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Last edited by Curbludgeon on Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:59 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 17187
Location: Eastvale, calif
You're asking what its COLOR???
Well I was trying to get everyone from arguing over what they were arguing over. *shrugs*

Obviously as for the COLOR TEXT of the....oopps I meant the descriptive text indicates that each and every CK has their own style and it would follow that the CE blasts from individual CKs would follow that CKs individual 'style'. This would include the color of their armor and color of their personal weapon.

_________________
Answering the OP's question with the canon answer should be done First.
After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

May you be blessed with understanding,
and the ability to change course when you are off the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:40 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm
Posts: 137
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
You're asking what its COLOR???
Well I was trying to get everyone from arguing over what they were arguing over. *shrugs*

Obviously as for the COLOR TEXT of the....oopps I meant the descriptive text indicates that each and every CK has their own style and it would follow that the CE blasts from individual CKs would follow that CKs individual 'style'. This would include the color of their armor and color of their personal weapon.



I'd like to start a petition that all future Palladium books list the color of the effects in the color text. Otherwise this whole mess devolves into chaos!

_________________
Drink whenever I say "Toon".

Color text =/= Game stats


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:19 am
  

Hero

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 1263
Comment: They/Them
Oh, gosh, turns out I misread the first sentence in the description of the Demon Knight's Anti-Matter Blast. That reduces the number of different classes with access to cosmic energy to Cosmo Knights, Superheroes, and a vague percentage of practitioners of magic.

As for the barbarians at the gate that is undefined effect color, my bet is that ~10 pages of random tables get published to fend them off.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 17187
Location: Eastvale, calif
ITWastrel wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
You're asking what its COLOR???
Well I was trying to get everyone from arguing over what they were arguing over. *shrugs*

Obviously as for the COLOR TEXT of the....oopps I meant the descriptive text indicates that each and every CK has their own style and it would follow that the CE blasts from individual CKs would follow that CKs individual 'style'. This would include the color of their armor and color of their personal weapon.



I'd like to start a petition that all future Palladium books list the color of the effects in the color text. Otherwise this whole mess devolves into chaos!

But listing the color of the effects in the descriptive text would mean that what is in the Descriptive text actually has canon stats in them that you'd have to follow.

_________________
Answering the OP's question with the canon answer should be done First.
After that you can post your house rules....as your house rules.

May you be blessed with understanding,
and the ability to change course when you are off the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmic Energy
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:14 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm
Posts: 137
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
ITWastrel wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
You're asking what its COLOR???
Well I was trying to get everyone from arguing over what they were arguing over. *shrugs*

Obviously as for the COLOR TEXT of the....oopps I meant the descriptive text indicates that each and every CK has their own style and it would follow that the CE blasts from individual CKs would follow that CKs individual 'style'. This would include the color of their armor and color of their personal weapon.



I'd like to start a petition that all future Palladium books list the color of the effects in the color text. Otherwise this whole mess devolves into chaos!

But listing the color of the effects in the descriptive text would mean that what is in the Descriptive text actually has canon stats in them that you'd have to follow.


Well, we can't have that. Hrmmph.

_________________
Drink whenever I say "Toon".

Color text =/= Game stats


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