Rifts earth weather patterns(now with poll)

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't know if this was ever addressed

But what would rifts earth current weather patterns be like?

[dragonfett]

Um, what's up with the poll?

[Blindscout]

hmmmmmm indeed

I'm guessing that where I live, west of Seattle, it probably rains a lot still. Not even the end of the world as we know it could change that!

[Zamion138]

ive always seen rifts earth as kinda warmed up a bit from todays standard....might just be alot less art with cold people so that could play into why ive always assumed its a bit of a hotter world.

[glitterboy2098]

actually i've generally leaned the other way. the climate/enviroment info from rifts Canada (and the cold weather rules therein) work best for a colder world than today.
something that is supported in warlords of russia and the '80 year winter' earth went through right after the cataclysm.

add to that the fact that the conditions of the great cataclysm were ideal for triggering a new 'little ice age'... and a rather severe one at that.


and if your a beleiver in the who anthropogenic global warming thing (personally i'm not convinced it's entirely anthropogenic, but thats an issue best not gotten into), rifts wouldn't be subject to such factors because the population is far lower, and the advanced civilizations are heavy into clean energy sources like Nuclear. not do you have the same problems of widespread urban zones affecting heat distribution and such that can affect localized climates.

generally, rifts feels like a return to the climate of the early industrial age (1700's or so), which was the tail end of the little ice age. over all the average differenced would only a few degrees cooler, but the seasonal variance would be wider, with bitter cold winters and only slightly less warm summers.

[Zamion138]

actually i've generally leaned the other way. the climate/enviroment info from rifts Canada (and the cold weather rules therein) work best for a colder world than today.
something that is supported in warlords of russia and the '80 year winter' earth went through right after the cataclysm.

add to that the fact that the conditions of the great cataclysm were ideal for triggering a new 'little ice age'... and a rather severe one at that.


and if your a beleiver in the who anthropogenic global warming thing (personally i'm not convinced it's entirely anthropogenic, but thats an issue best not gotten into), rifts wouldn't be subject to such factors because the population is far lower, and the advanced civilizations are heavy into clean energy sources like Nuclear. not do you have the same problems of widespread urban zones affecting heat distribution and such that can affect localized climates.

generally, rifts feels like a return to the climate of the early industrial age (1700's or so), which was the tail end of the little ice age. over all the average differenced would only a few degrees cooler, but the seasonal variance would be wider, with bitter cold winters and only slightly less warm summers.

everything you say makes since but i guese its jut that most of the art is so not cold weather garb that in my mind it always saw it as warmer......that and dinosuar swamp would have to be hot year round to support the cold blooded life there....though i think the idea that dinasours were hot blooded is the new norm for most of them

[glitterboy2098]

i think that the art is just a case of "cold weather clothes are less cool looking", with artists gravitating towards depicting conditions that allow characters to wear outfits that don't make them resemble the michelin man.

look at TV and movies. shows and films set outside the tropics don't depict cold weather often unless set in places like alaska, canada, or the north/south pole.. even though by all accounts at least a fourth of the stories ought to be set during winter if they followed real world time distributions. but they tend not to unless cold weather is an important visual cue to the story, since cold weather is hard to simulate (most shows and films tend to be filmed during spring and summer),and cold weather clothing naturally has much less visual variety than warm weather gear.

as for dinosaurs, you had Trex's, ceratopsians, hadrosaurs, and others living in the arctic circle during the late cretaceous, and even back then it spent a third of the year in below freezing temperatures. recent paleontological evidence is that the species up there didn't even migrate.
you also have the continents of antarctica and austrailia, as well as the indian subcontinent.. which from the Jurassic period on were part of the same landmass, and sitting directly over the south pole. all the species there had to deal with below freezing conditions.

frankly, by comparison Florida, Georgia, and the Carolina's aren't all that bad in terms of winter weather. historically their climates were rather mild during the ice ages, due to how far south they were and the effect of ocean currents bringing heat up from the tropic zones.

people tend to forget that ice ages don't mean "all ice and snow, all the time and everywhere", but just longer winters, shorter milder summers, and colder polar regions. and that there was immense regional variation.

[azazel1024]

I would suspect that that weather patterns are a little different. If nothing else the apperance of Atlantis would have disrupted both huricane formation in the Atlantic (much milder hurricanes and fewer of them) as well as disrupted the gulf stream and Atlantic convayer current, so Europe, especially Northern Europe should average a little colder. Figure 50% fewer hurricanes and on average 1 catagory lower in general. For Northern Europe, figure 5 degrees F lower temperature on average and 2F lower temperature on average in Southern Europe.

That means shorter growing seasons, more snow fall and of course deeper cold in the winter.

Southern US would trend toward slightly warmer and drier. Both as a result of fewer hurricanes and tropical storms, but also the Atlantic conveyer current being disrupted would reduce the heat exchange some, though the temperature increase would be much more modest than the decrease that northern Europe would see. Figure probably only 1-3F on average increase, but some swamps and stuff would dry up from reduced annual rainfall (though not a lot, and some would exapand from the raised sea levels and a large number would become brackish or even salt marshes instead of freash water swamps).

Oh one note, unless the Rifts themselves disrupted atmospheric compostion, the build up of CO2 would not likely have reduced significantly from the end of the 21st century until modern day Rifts. It would have reduced significantly faster than the track we are on (even supposing humanity cleaned up its act) as a result of human civilization being pruned back severly and large swaths of deforested land again having forests covering it (thus trapping a lot of CO2). However, it is unlikely that the full impact of anthropogenic caused global warming would have been fully reversed (even if there was a nuclear or magic/Rift induced "winter" stretching 80 years, the CO2 and a number of other green house gases would still be there to warm things back up again).

Estimates are if we pulled back greenhouse gas production to basically nothing, it would take roughly a millenia for things to completely recover to pre-industrial levels (temperature wise). Of course we could do things to accelerate recovery, such as actively reforesting lands, reducing urban heat islands, etc. Maybe even geoengineering to reflect sunlight for a period of time, etc.

[Todd Yoho]

everything you say makes since but i guese its jut that most of the art is so not cold weather garb that in my mind it always saw it as warmer......that and dinosuar swamp would have to be hot year round to support the cold blooded life there....though i think the idea that dinasours were hot blooded is the new norm for most of them

Dinosaurs in Rifts are endothermic.

[Killer Cyborg]

what would rifts earth current weather patterns be like?

Meteoric.

[Killer Cyborg]

everything you say makes since but i guese its jut that most of the art is so not cold weather garb that in my mind it always saw it as warmer......that and dinosuar swamp would have to be hot year round to support the cold blooded life there....though i think the idea that dinasours were hot blooded is the new norm for most of them

Dinosaurs in Rifts are endothermic.

[taalismn]

I would suspect that that weather patterns are a little different. If nothing else the apperance of Atlantis would have disrupted both huricane formation in the Atlantic (much milder hurricanes and fewer of them) as well as disrupted the gulf stream and Atlantic convayer current, so Europe, especially Northern Europe should average a little colder. Figure 50% fewer hurricanes and on average 1 catagory lower in general. For Northern Europe, figure 5 degrees F lower temperature on average and 2F lower temperature on average in Southern Europe.

That means shorter growing seasons, more snow fall and of course deeper cold in the winter.

Southern US would trend toward slightly warmer and drier. Both as a result of fewer hurricanes and tropical storms, but also the Atlantic conveyer current being disrupted would reduce the heat exchange some, though the temperature increase would be much more modest than the decrease that northern Europe would see. Figure probably only 1-3F on average increase, but some swamps and stuff would dry up from reduced annual rainfall (though not a lot, and some would exapand from the raised sea levels and a large number would become brackish or even salt marshes instead of freash water swamps).

Oh one note, unless the Rifts themselves disrupted atmospheric compostion, the build up of CO2 would not likely have reduced significantly from the end of the 21st century until modern day Rifts. It would have reduced significantly faster than the track we are on (even supposing humanity cleaned up its act) as a result of human civilization being pruned back severly and large swaths of deforested land again having forests covering it (thus trapping a lot of CO2). However, it is unlikely that the full impact of anthropogenic caused global warming would have been fully reversed (even if there was a nuclear or magic/Rift induced "winter" stretching 80 years, the CO2 and a number of other green house gases would still be there to warm things back up again).

Estimates are if we pulled back greenhouse gas production to basically nothing, it would take roughly a millenia for things to completely recover to pre-industrial levels (temperature wise). Of course we could do things to accelerate recovery, such as actively reforesting lands, reducing urban heat islands, etc. Maybe even geoengineering to reflect sunlight for a period of time, etc.

And tossing in my bit of pseudoscience to balance that : Factor in the dieback in methane emissions from large herds of cultivated animals(made up somewhat by those from the even larger herbivores now roaming Rifts Earth, and carbon sequestration in the MDC-armor shells of all the new megadamage critters making themselves at home.

[keir451]

I would suspect that that weather patterns are a little different. If nothing else the apperance of Atlantis would have disrupted both huricane formation in the Atlantic (much milder hurricanes and fewer of them) as well as disrupted the gulf stream and Atlantic convayer current, so Europe, especially Northern Europe should average a little colder. Figure 50% fewer hurricanes and on average 1 catagory lower in general. For Northern Europe, figure 5 degrees F lower temperature on average and 2F lower temperature on average in Southern Europe.

That means shorter growing seasons, more snow fall and of course deeper cold in the winter.

Southern US would trend toward slightly warmer and drier. Both as a result of fewer hurricanes and tropical storms, but also the Atlantic conveyer current being disrupted would reduce the heat exchange some, though the temperature increase would be much more modest than the decrease that northern Europe would see. Figure probably only 1-3F on average increase, but some swamps and stuff would dry up from reduced annual rainfall (though not a lot, and some would exapand from the raised sea levels and a large number would become brackish or even salt marshes instead of freash water swamps).

Oh one note, unless the Rifts themselves disrupted atmospheric compostion, the build up of CO2 would not likely have reduced significantly from the end of the 21st century until modern day Rifts. It would have reduced significantly faster than the track we are on (even supposing humanity cleaned up its act) as a result of human civilization being pruned back severly and large swaths of deforested land again having forests covering it (thus trapping a lot of CO2). However, it is unlikely that the full impact of anthropogenic caused global warming would have been fully reversed (even if there was a nuclear or magic/Rift induced "winter" stretching 80 years, the CO2 and a number of other green house gases would still be there to warm things back up again).

Estimates are if we pulled back greenhouse gas production to basically nothing, it would take roughly a millenia for things to completely recover to pre-industrial levels (temperature wise). Of course we could do things to accelerate recovery, such as actively reforesting lands, reducing urban heat islands, etc. Maybe even geoengineering to reflect sunlight for a period of time, etc.

I don't see how Rifts wouldn't disrupt atmospheric conditions whenever they appear, but I would think that the reappearance an extra land mass in the middle of the Atlantic might affect the levels of CO2 as well. Then there's the fact that 90% of the old urban and sub-urban areas are now over grown (it has been nearly 300 years since the apocalypse) would probably havbe an affect as well.
Also the key word you used was "estiamtes", as we so often point out certain real world rules often go out the window due to the fact that there are "unforseen" phenomena present in Rifts that the real world experts never calculated for.

[The Dark Elf]

There was no "raining cats and dogboys" option so I couldnt vote.

[flatline]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

Opening a dimensional portal to a high pressure location/dimension with non-breathable air will flood your current location with non-breathable air. Opening a dimensional portal to a location with no atmosphere at all will cause your atmosphere to flood that location, perhaps pulling you and others through against your will.

Can this effect be big enough to impact weather patterns? Absolutely! Imagine locations that have permanent rifts to other dimensions. They would behave as permanent high or low pressure sources and in the long run, if we lose more atmosphere than we gain or we gain atmosphere containing a different mix of gases than Earth's current atmosphere, things could change very drastically!

Another thing to consider is "weaponized" dimensional portals where the caster purposefully opens portals to high pressure locations/dimensions filled with chlorine gas or hot plasma (like the "surface" of the sun) or the bottom of a large body of water. Even if it's only open for a melee or two, these could have dramatic impacts on the local weather for sure, but perhaps even global weather if the effect is extreme enough (like the "surface" of the sun example).

--flatline

[Kovoston]

May have extreme and strange weather patters due to cycles of post apocalyptic events and magic/gods etc. Id suggest looking up the NOAA site and going a step further... into the strange!

[dragonfett]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

Opening a dimensional portal to a high pressure location/dimension with non-breathable air will flood your current location with non-breathable air. Opening a dimensional portal to a location with no atmosphere at all will cause your atmosphere to flood that location, perhaps pulling you and others through against your will.

A very good point that Constant Rifts have some of these (random rifts have a chance had having some of these qualities.

Can this effect be big enough to impact weather patterns? Absolutely! Imagine locations that have permanent rifts to other dimensions. They would behave as permanent high or low pressure sources and in the long run, if we lose more atmosphere than we gain or we gain atmosphere containing a different mix of gases than Earth's current atmosphere, things could change very drastically!

Even though a Rift may be permanent Rift on Earth, it does not stay connected to any one world naturally.

Another thing to consider is "weaponized" dimensional portals where the caster purposefully opens portals to high pressure locations/dimensions filled with chlorine gas or hot plasma (like the "surface" of the sun) or the bottom of a large body of water. Even if it's only open for a melee or two, these could have dramatic impacts on the local weather for sure, but perhaps even global weather if the effect is extreme enough (like the "surface" of the sun example).

--flatline

I don't think that it's as simple as that. Don't the mage/being opening the Rift have to have previously been to an area to open it?

[The Beast]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

According to page 19 WB7, atmospheres of different worlds don't mix.

[flatline]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

According to page 19 WB7, atmospheres of different worlds don't mix.

What is the context of that statement for those of us who don't have Underseas.

--flatline

[The Beast]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

According to page 19 WB7, atmospheres of different worlds don't mix.

What is the context of that statement for those of us who don't have Underseas.

--flatline

It's talking about Dead Pools on the sea floor, which are what the nexus points underwater are called. Basicly anything stepping through a rift that wasn't able to handle the instant change in pressure was killed, and the bodies would tend to pile up in the vicinity of the nexus point.

Edit: Specificly said air & water from different worlds don't mix.

[flatline]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

According to page 19 WB7, atmospheres of different worlds don't mix.

What is the context of that statement for those of us who don't have Underseas.

--flatline

It's talking about Dead Pools on the sea floor, which are what the nexus points underwater are called. Basicly anything stepping through a rift that wasn't able to handle the instant change in pressure was killed, and the bodies would tend to pile up in the vicinity of the nexus point.

Edit: Specificly said air & water from different worlds don't mix.

Hmm...Random Rifts just got a whole lot safer...and less interesting.

Curious consequence of that rule is that plasma weapons can't be fired through a rift.

Do rifts prevent any liquid from flowing through or just water?

--flatline

[glitterboy2098]

i've generally interprited the WB7 reference to mean that rifts aren't 'holes' so much as places where the fabric between universes is thin.. ambient environment doesn't cross over, but anything moving moving over an [indeterminate for plot convenience] rate can pass through. that way gas and liquid in containers (like the air tanks on an EBA, or water in canteens) can pass through with a person. it also would mean that a rift to, for example, the atmosphere of a gas giant wouldn't see a pressure related exchange of gas.. but if there is a strong wind on either side it might pass through.

[Dr. Doom III]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

According to page 19 WB7, atmospheres of different worlds don't mix.

What is the context of that statement for those of us who don't have Underseas.

--flatline

It's talking about Dead Pools on the sea floor, which are what the nexus points underwater are called. Basicly anything stepping through a rift that wasn't able to handle the instant change in pressure was killed, and the bodies would tend to pile up in the vicinity of the nexus point.

Edit: Specificly said air & water from different worlds don't mix.

Hmm...Random Rifts just got a whole lot safer...and less interesting.

Curious consequence of that rule is that plasma weapons can't be fired through a rift.

Do rifts prevent any liquid from flowing through or just water?

--flatline

They sound more dangerous and mysterious to me. It means stepping through one could mean instant death with no warning signs.

[Killer Cyborg]

We've always had a variety of Rifts in our games: permeable, semi-permeable, permeable only to certain substances, whatever.

[azazel1024]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

Opening a dimensional portal to a high pressure location/dimension with non-breathable air will flood your current location with non-breathable air. Opening a dimensional portal to a location with no atmosphere at all will cause your atmosphere to flood that location, perhaps pulling you and others through against your will.

Can this effect be big enough to impact weather patterns? Absolutely! Imagine locations that have permanent rifts to other dimensions. They would behave as permanent high or low pressure sources and in the long run, if we lose more atmosphere than we gain or we gain atmosphere containing a different mix of gases than Earth's current atmosphere, things could change very drastically!

Another thing to consider is "weaponized" dimensional portals where the caster purposefully opens portals to high pressure locations/dimensions filled with chlorine gas or hot plasma (like the "surface" of the sun) or the bottom of a large body of water. Even if it's only open for a melee or two, these could have dramatic impacts on the local weather for sure, but perhaps even global weather if the effect is extreme enough (like the "surface" of the sun example).

--flatline

Atmosphere does not mix through a Rift. We know this in part because if you open a rift to under water, water doesn't come gushing through the Rift.

The only time things "mix" is if a physical solid is pushed through a Rift. Of course then you get in to things like, what if a water elemental tried to pass through...but I'd then argue that Rifts are magical thingies and not thingies of science, so science rules don't apply.

Things can move through Rifts when it makes story sense and not when it doesn't. In general atmospheres (or lack of them) and liquids won't pass through. Otherwise a Rift to open space would eventually vent all of Earth's atmosphere or opening a rift underwater would eventually drain the oceans.

[Nightmask]

When a rift opens, it's extremely unlikely that the air pressures are equalized, so you should always assume that there is a strong wind blowing through the rift from the higher pressure location/dimension into the lower pressure location/dimension.

Opening a dimensional portal to a high pressure location/dimension with non-breathable air will flood your current location with non-breathable air. Opening a dimensional portal to a location with no atmosphere at all will cause your atmosphere to flood that location, perhaps pulling you and others through against your will.

Can this effect be big enough to impact weather patterns? Absolutely! Imagine locations that have permanent rifts to other dimensions. They would behave as permanent high or low pressure sources and in the long run, if we lose more atmosphere than we gain or we gain atmosphere containing a different mix of gases than Earth's current atmosphere, things could change very drastically!

Another thing to consider is "weaponized" dimensional portals where the caster purposefully opens portals to high pressure locations/dimensions filled with chlorine gas or hot plasma (like the "surface" of the sun) or the bottom of a large body of water. Even if it's only open for a melee or two, these could have dramatic impacts on the local weather for sure, but perhaps even global weather if the effect is extreme enough (like the "surface" of the sun example).

--flatline

Atmosphere does not mix through a Rift. We know this in part because if you open a rift to under water, water doesn't come gushing through the Rift.

The only time things "mix" is if a physical solid is pushed through a Rift. Of course then you get in to things like, what if a water elemental tried to pass through...but I'd then argue that Rifts are magical thingies and not thingies of science, so science rules don't apply.

Things can move through Rifts when it makes story sense and not when it doesn't. In general atmospheres (or lack of them) and liquids won't pass through. Otherwise a Rift to open space would eventually vent all of Earth's atmosphere or opening a rift underwater would eventually drain the oceans.

Palladium's inconsistent on that, they tend to have a 'whatever's cooler' response with that. The Rifts on Mars for example have to be mixing atmospheres because we're told that the influence of them has caused a noticeable thickening of the atmosphere around them and their contributing ley lines.

[glitterboy2098]

actually MiO says that Ley lines have had a moderating effect on mars, causing it to warm up and gain a slightly more habitable atmosphere.

Mars has been a location of dimensional ley line activity on a planetary scale several times in its long history. Now the ley lines again breathe new life into the dead planet. As fate would have it, the old human colony is located at the epicenter of a martian bermuda triangle (one of two). the area within the triangle is subject to influences by other dimensions and distortions in the space-time continuum. this, combined with the terraforming efforts started by the colonists, has spawned a lush tropical rainforest and rolling grasslands that cover thousands of square miles inside the triangle that stretches 430 miles (688km) east and west and to a point 320 miles (512 km) north. these same forces also keep a constant temprature and keep sand storms out of the triangle. there are a dozen other, smaller pockets of vegetation at different locations on the planet, as well. within these areas are clouds, rain, water, and a breathable, earth like atmosphere. If these conditions remain for other a thousand years, they may have long term effects in terraforming the planet.

not that this matches up in interesting ways with the descriptions of 'blue line zones' in chaos earth, where ley lines ('blue lines') cause the conditions within their area to be warmer, less hostile conditions than the surrounding area.