A few questions from a new GM

[Mogge]

Im about to start a campaign (well will be several later on) soon.
Unfortnately Im not 100% clear on a few things which I hope you could help me with.
This will be about 2:nd edition of Palladium Fantasy.

Regarding ranged weapons:
Is P.P. + to strike used here? I cant find anywhere stating that it does or it doesn't and would greatly appretiate help here.
Is the Target number 8+ for ranged weapons or is it 4+ like in melee.
If its 8+, is it for ALL ranged weapons even thrown weapons?

Regarding kicks and punches, do everyone have basic version of those (even without a HTH)?

Any good insights you might have for someone new to Palladium Fantasy would be great indeed.

Cheers everyone!

[ShadowLogan]

PP strike bonus does not apply to ranged weapons, the exception might be the of the thrown variety or other specifically called out examples.

The Target # of 8/4 for range/melee is going to come down to which main book you are using. Older main books (like PF2E) utilize a flat 4+ for both melee and ranged combat, however newer books (RUE, Splicers, 2E RT and probably a few others) utilize the split format.

In theory anyone can throw a punch or kick, even without HTH I would think, though you might not get the best damage out of it (IIRC there are different types of kicks and punches with differing damage). Without HTH skill a Parry also consumes an attack.

[Grazzik]

Re punch/kick, pg 46 has the "no HTH" rules and pg 45 has the average damage for punch/kick. Reading the blurb on pg 46, there is no mention of reduced damage for no HTH. There are no qualifiers to damage on pg 45 either. So, it can be assumed that a PC with no HTH still does the listed damage with a average punch/kick.

If you want to get fancy, you may want to adjust for PCs with really low PS scores to reflect the inability to put much oomph into a punch/kick. I may be wrong, but I don't think PF2e has the low stat penalties - you may have to look in Rifts RUE.

Have fun!

[kiralon]

I have a few things that can help here if you pm me i can send you.

[drewkitty ~..~]

(comprehensive answer) In PF2, the PP bonus is added to all weapon attacks, of weapons of the world of the setting portrayed in the PF RPG gamebook.
(simple answer) Bows, Crossbows and thrown weapon weapons get the PP to strike bonus.

The only handheld weapons that do not get the PP bonus in the PB gaming system are Modern Weapons. Which are only found in the other PB Games. So you can disregard what ShadowLogan said about the PP strike bonus not applying to ranged weapons, because he was mis-stating rules from a different PB game.

Note that in the PF2 corebook there is a WP Modern Weapons, and the Only Bonus it gives is the PP strike bonus. Which show that the writers of the PF2 core book know about the normal Modern Weapons PP restrictions and chose to go around it to make PP applicable to ALL weapons if that char has that WP.
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The only target number I can find in the PF2 core book is 4.
If someone knows where there is something different in a PF2 gamebook please state where you found said text that says it.

SL the poster is asking about the rules of the PF RPG 2nd ed game, Not what the other PB game rules are. So I ask you to restrict your answers to what is found in the PF2 gamebooks.
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There is text covering when the char has "no hand to hand combat skill" on page 46.

[Mogge]

Thanks everyone for the replies, very much appretiated.

So if I plan to run other PB games (which I do), should I use the no P.P and target number 8 OR do you think I would be wisest to go with solely Palladium Fantasy 2:nd edition rules to not bog it down? I want the players to feel familiar when I run another PB game later on.

[Grazzik]

I'd be up front with your players - every PB game has a slightly different set of rules!

Some things I've learned...
- Pick one game, play it RAW, and get the gameplay feel. If you start with PF2e, then go with it.
- Focus on the now, not the future... you'll get lost in the megaversal morass of rules that is PB
- Don't sweat the small stuff if you forget an obscure rule here or there.
- I use a lot of narrative story telling and generous sprinkles of handwavium to smooth out the edges and keep everyone having fun
- As GM, I try to write down as many (oh so many!) of the house rules, GM calls, or reference points as possible... I throw out lots later when I find a RAW rule in another book or figure out a better way of doing things and players will understand that you're all learning to play together
- Once everyone feels comfortable with the basics, talk about introducing other stuff from other PB games that overlaps what you've been doing already... players might like the enhancements or may not yet be ready for the change... talking is important to get everyone hyped about an updated game element before it's introduced
- new stuff can be ported over as a surprise as long as you've determined there won't be any downstream impact

Hope this helps!

[ShadowLogan]

Re punch/kick, pg 46 has the "no HTH" rules and pg 45 has the average damage for punch/kick. Reading the blurb on pg 46, there is no mention of reduced damage for no HTH. There are no qualifiers to damage on pg 45 either. So, it can be assumed that a PC with no HTH still does the listed damage with a average punch/kick.

I'm looking at the HTH: ### by level advancement (pg47-8) where kicks types are based on level which would imply that not all HTH maneuvers can be done w/o the skill training (physical skills can substitute in some cases). These kicks include Karate style and Jump Kicks for HTH, Gymnastics does a kick at 2d6 (and IIRC RUE expands this). All of which would be pointless to include if you could do it without skills/HTH training of some kind, and would amount to "might not get the best damage out of it" since you don't have access to the full list (some one with a generic 2d4 kick isn't the same as one with a 2d6 kick after all in terms o damage).

So if I plan to run other PB games (which I do), should I use the no P.P and target number 8 OR do you think I would be wisest to go with solely Palladium Fantasy 2:nd edition rules to not bog it down? I want the players to feel familiar when I run another PB game later on.

Ultimately this will come down to personal taste and your ability/desire to keep track of the differences.

Keep in mind that there are going to be other various (minor) differences between the various game/lines (examples, WP progression rate, skill base/advancement rate, number of HTH styles you can have, duration of melee, etc), so the difference isn't just limited to PP and target number.

[The Dark Elf]

Cant recall any text on it, but we play that without a HTH skill the only attack you can do is the human fist (punch) as it's the lowest damage (it's 1D4).

[Grazzik]

I'm looking at the HTH: ### by level advancement (pg47-8) where kicks types are based on level which would imply that not all HTH maneuvers can be done w/o the skill training

Exactly. As Dark Elf points out, average punch is 1d4.

Though kicks are another issue... Sigh, another example of poor description/editing is the damage for kicks... PF2e has an average Kick Attack at 2d4, a Karate Kick Attack at 2d6, but elsewhere on the same page the description of a kick attack is "a conventional, karate-style, kick ... Does 2d4 damage." Same in HU2. Corrected in RUE to make a clear distinction between a basic kick and a karate kick. Nightbane drops an untrained kick down to 1d4 (which makes sense to me). Can't find any mention of unarmed damage in either Dead Reign or Chaos Earth (though I did only look for a few minutes). So there you go, even something as simple as how much damage from a kick from a regular untrained person can be a convoluted problem when going between games...

[drewkitty ~..~]

Thanks everyone for the replies, very much appretiated.

So if I plan to run other PB games (which I do), should I use the no P.P and target number 8 OR do you think I would be wisest to go with solely Palladium Fantasy 2:nd edition rules to not bog it down? I want the players to feel familiar when I run another PB game later on.

The 'No PP Bonus" rule is only for Modern Weapons. Firearms & ray guns.
I would also include vehicle mounted weapons like a tank's main gun, a starship's ship to ship weapons, missiles, etc...

Use the '8' target number in the games that is the target number. Like Rifts. They have tweek'ed the rules there to be more ""realistic""....*yawns*
HU.....it is suppose to be more cinematic....so leave the PCs target number at 4, then give the storm.... I mean the NPC mooks have a target number of 8.

In Other Words...read the rules for the game you are GMing and use those as the basis for the rules you use for it.

Not 'automatically use some other game's rules'.

[Mogge]

Im so happy for all the great help I get here. So I will go with PF 2ed rules as so wisely recomended!

A few more questions popped up.

Are there a way of balancing encounters or is it like in Savage Worlds where I come from recently that I need to Oh so carefully try out?

And lastly, how genereous should one be with magical weapons. Is someone at level 3 for example expected to have this or that number of magical items??

Once again, Im very, very thankful for all the help.

Cheers mates!

[kiralon]

Palladium worries a lot less about balance, so a couple of bad rolls can turn encounters on their heads, but until you get used things i find that having each encounter to have an out unless the characters ask for it, and work up some random encounters before game. Rolling up a palladium character can take up a fair bit of time.

I also use fodder encounters as a warm up to see the party dynamic at the start, like underfed bandits who aren't at full strength, or monsters already hurt in previous encounters, and then have the backup of wardens already out looking for the bandits or hunters for the monsters.

And magic items tends to be a game type issue. Is this a high epic, or is it just group of people walking down a road together.
I can suggest talking to the players to see what they want in their characters and having an overall game plan for each character.
I tend to use minor magic items lvls 1-3. Things like a ring of light or a sword that glows a cool colour or items that are limited use before crumbling away. By lvl 3 you generally know if the party is going to work and start working in more powerful items.

There are a fair few things that can get you, and people here are friendly and always willing to help.

[Prysus]

Rolling up a palladium character can take up a fair bit of time.

Greetings and Salutations. This is very true, though the Palladium Fantasy® Interactive NPC Sheet can help with some basic characters. Most of the races and classes from the main book are pre-generated and can be adjusted for levels, stats, minor psionics, and lots of customization options. That doesn't help much with other books in the setting, but can be a useful starting point. Farewell and safe journeys.

[drewkitty ~..~]

magic stuff: you determine how abundant or rare magic stuff is.

[The Dark Elf]

It can be a "good" or "bad" thing depending on your playstyle but the PFRPG bad guys aren't given averages. Therefore fight an "elf bandit" (as an example) means that the bandit could have +10 to strike parry dodge or more or they could have +0. And that isnt even dependent on level. They could have skills selected and their SDC be dozens and dozens again, not necessarily dependant on level!
It can be a blessing as the players can fight elf bandits for years but never know how tough their foe is going to be. But it can also be tricky for a new GM and certainly more work.

So I find encounters are much more about the GM balancing them but I also find that it is much easier to amend the foe's stats accordingly, behind the screen-especially for new GM's to the system. What happened in the first melee round? make amendments if needed for the ongoing. I especially use the given example HP & SDC ranges of monsters. Fight until the combat is becoming boring as opposed to setting specifics. Especially if there more than one foe-so you're fighting six goblins? One might have 20 health total, another might have 100 (just describe them as looking tougher).

I cant really answer the magical weapons question - that is for your balance. So I recommend throwing one or two out there and find out! If you dont due to paranoia, you'll never discover your parties balance. Scrolls, potions and other one time use items might be good testers...

[JuliusCreed]

Probably already satisfied with the answers you've gotten so far, but I'll throw in my 2 gold anyway...

PP bonuses apply to all Strike bonuses EXCEPT those dealing with Modern Weapons. The ONLY exception is the 2ed PFRPG Weapon Proficiency, WP Modern Weapons (guns). It states "Normal strike bonuses from hand to hand combat skills do not apply, but bonuses from a high P.P. or the targeting skill do count".
(On a side note about PP bonuses being used with ranged weapons, it also states in the WP Archery skill that "the character loses all bonuses and rate of fire is reduced by half when running and shooting, flying, when riding on horseback or from a moving vehicle..." This includes PP bonuses)
As for PP bonuses applying to thrown weapons, yes they do. Also take special note of the specific bonuses among most of the WP's in the game specifically for striking with the weapon when it is thrown. Please note that these bonuses are separate and exclusive from the WP Targeting bonuses which are meant to be applied to weapons specifically designed for throwing, such as darts, shuriken, boomerangs, etc. In the event of WP Spear or Archery being selected in addition to WP Targeting, WP Targeting provides an additional bonus to strike (Archery) or strike when throwing the weapon (Spear) at levels 2, 5 and 10 to these particular WPs, NOT the regular skill bonuses provided by the WP.

As for the 4/8 thing, I've never seen it in 2ed PFRPG, thus as far as I know all strikes require at least a 4 or better to hit. Nuff said.

And finally, punches and kicks for the untrained. Tough one here, honestly because I've never read any particular rule about whether or not someone without a HtH skill can do it. Logically, it takes the skill and motivation of an average monkey to throw a punch or a kick. The rub comes from untrained skill in such things. My view... Yes, anyone can punch or kick whether or not they have any HtH skill. However, unless they are actually trained in some form of HtH skill, damage for either attack is a mere 1d4 plus whatever damage bonuses may be applied from PS etc. And, obviously, the only strike bonuses that would apply would be those from a high PP since they wouldn't have a HtH skill to augment them in the first place.

That's all I got for ya. Good luck and great gaming!

[Mogge]

Thanks everyone! Will be great to start my campaign.
Feels good that one can ask questions here without feeling "dumb".

Best regards

[W.R.Xavier1]

(comprehensive answer) In PF2, the PP bonus is added to all weapon attacks, of weapons of the world of the setting portrayed in the PF RPG gamebook.
(simple answer) Bows, Crossbows and thrown weapon weapons get the PP to strike bonus.

The only handheld weapons that do not get the PP bonus in the PB gaming system are Modern Weapons. Which are only found in the other PB Games. So you can disregard what ShadowLogan said about the PP strike bonus not applying to ranged weapons, because he was mis-stating rules from a different PB game.

Note that in the PF2 corebook there is a WP Modern Weapons, and the Only Bonus it gives is the PP strike bonus. Which show that the writers of the PF2 core book know about the normal Modern Weapons PP restrictions and chose to go around it to make PP applicable to ALL weapons if that char has that WP.
-------------------
The only target number I can find in the PF2 core book is 4.
If someone knows where there is something different in a PF2 gamebook please state where you found said text that says it.

SL the poster is asking about the rules of the PF RPG 2nd ed game, Not what the other PB game rules are. So I ask you to restrict your answers to what is found in the PF2 gamebooks.
-------------------
There is text covering when the char has "no hand to hand combat skill" on page 46.

PP does NOT apply to ranged weapons with the exception of Thrown weapons. it is cited in variety of places including the rifter QA in earlier editions but simplest source to draw on here is the Official QA on the Main Site under Combat Rules Questions.
Question 16 asks about PP bonuses and points to the Modern Weapons WP in PFRP. The answer to the question is no on this account.

[Grazzik]

PP does NOT apply to ranged weapons with the exception of Thrown weapons. it is cited in variety of places including the rifter QA in earlier editions but simplest source to draw on here is the Official QA on the Main Site under Combat Rules Questions.
Question 16 asks about PP bonuses and points to the Modern Weapons WP in PFRP. The answer to the question is no on this account.

Note that the Q16 referenced includes mention of modern weapons in the question, but the answer explicitly only refers to bows and crossbows. This is because Drewkitty and JuliusCreed are both correct re WP Modern Weapons - see PF2e pg 60.

Also...

Do I use PP strike bonuses with modern, energy and missile weapons?

You do not use PP bonuses with these weapons. The WP Modern Weapons skill in PFRPG, which gives PP bonuses to strike, is a special case rule for introducing guns into PF.