OCCs where Native Language can be inferior to others

[Axelmania]

I was looking at how Native Language was added as an OCC to most of the OCCs in RUE and then noticed it wasn't added to some of them, which posits the idea that perhaps you might actually need to select a native language as a skill.

(minor note: anyone ever notice the contrast between "Native Language" used in some OCCs like Borg/Crazy wheras "Native Tongue" is used in the Communications Skills and for other OCCs like Glitter Boy?)

Presumably if you have no other language skills then your 1st selection is automatically Native Language.

If you start with various languages then you would have to specify one of them as the native language, I would also figure. After all the first language would be the de-facto native one.

Pg 66's Cyber-Knight OCC seems like one possible option. They're 96% competent in American + Dragonese, and can select two "other" languages (ie non-native, but get an amazing +30% starting at a base of 80%)

There doesn't seem to be any benefit to saying "hey, American or Dragonese was my native language" because they seem to be locked-in at 96 and wouldn't get the +1%/level.

Cyber-Knights get a +5% technical bonus which used to make them slightly better at languages via Related skills, but due to it being moved to Communication (no bonus) this is no longer the case, meaning you might as well only use Secondary Skills to learn languages.

So it seems like the best option for CKs is to select "Native Tongue" as a secondary skill and start off with 88% proficiency in it, as well as 96/96/80/80 in four others.

About the only reason I could see to specify American or Dragonese as the native language is that the GM could say this is mandatory if yo don't take Native Tongue / Native Language as a secondary.

OTOH maybe you're truly from a languageless species that lacks a language and were taught American/Dragonese simultaneously during your training, so you got neither of them "first" and thus neither is "native" ?

It all seems strange that Cyber-Knights are all pentalingual, does Coake really discrimininate against people who have trouble learning languages?

CK seems like the only Ultimate OCC which doesn't start off with the native skill, but the Vagabond also stands out as something interesting since they seem to have the lowest of all in it: 88%

This in theory means that if it's locked there that Language: Other could eventually exceed proficiency: the +15% bonus on base 50% is 65% so it would reach 90% after five levels!

Even if these native languages did get the +1% per level, that's only up to 94% by six levels, at which point the other languages would be at 95%

Dog Boys (pg 147) also start with 88% (and it must be American) but their bonus for other langues is 10% less so we're more looking at 9 levels worth of +5% to get from 55% to 98% and exceeding the 88+9=97% you'd get assuming Native Tongue actually gets that +1% bonus.

If they are actually locked (what I tend to assume if they for some reason list a fixed % instead of a +??% bonus) then it seems like the Cyber-Knight might be the only one that the 1%/level actually applies to, since they 're the only one who can actually choose Native Tongue as a skill as others already have it?

Pg 155 also makes me wonder: did anyone ever assume Wild Psi Stalkers might develope their own language instead of it being American? What about wild psi stalkerss who live around Free Quebec battling Xiticix, they don't speak French?

[guardiandashi]

I was looking at how Native Language was added as an OCC to most of the OCCs in RUE and then noticed it wasn't added to some of them, which posits the idea that perhaps you might actually need to select a native language as a skill.

(minor note: anyone ever notice the contrast between "Native Language" used in some OCCs like Borg/Crazy wheras "Native Tongue" is used in the Communications Skills and for other OCCs like Glitter Boy?)

Presumably if you have no other language skills then your 1st selection is automatically Native Language.

If you start with various languages then you would have to specify one of them as the native language, I would also figure. After all the first language would be the de-facto native one.

Pg 66's Cyber-Knight OCC seems like one possible option. They're 96% competent in American + Dragonese, and can select two "other" languages (ie non-native, but get an amazing +30% starting at a base of 80%)

There doesn't seem to be any benefit to saying "hey, American or Dragonese was my native language" because they seem to be locked-in at 96 and wouldn't get the +1%/level.

Cyber-Knights get a +5% technical bonus which used to make them slightly better at languages via Related skills, but due to it being moved to Communication (no bonus) this is no longer the case, meaning you might as well only use Secondary Skills to learn languages.

So it seems like the best option for CKs is to select "Native Tongue" as a secondary skill and start off with 88% proficiency in it, as well as 96/96/80/80 in four others.

About the only reason I could see to specify American or Dragonese as the native language is that the GM could say this is mandatory if yo don't take Native Tongue / Native Language as a secondary.

OTOH maybe you're truly from a languageless species that lacks a language and were taught American/Dragonese simultaneously during your training, so you got neither of them "first" and thus neither is "native" ?

It all seems strange that Cyber-Knights are all pentalingual, does Coake really discrimininate against people who have trouble learning languages?

CK seems like the only Ultimate OCC which doesn't start off with the native skill, but the Vagabond also stands out as something interesting since they seem to have the lowest of all in it: 88%

This in theory means that if it's locked there that Language: Other could eventually exceed proficiency: the +15% bonus on base 50% is 65% so it would reach 90% after five levels!

Even if these native languages did get the +1% per level, that's only up to 94% by six levels, at which point the other languages would be at 95%

Dog Boys (pg 147) also start with 88% (and it must be American) but their bonus for other langues is 10% less so we're more looking at 9 levels worth of +5% to get from 55% to 98% and exceeding the 88+9=97% you'd get assuming Native Tongue actually gets that +1% bonus.

If they are actually locked (what I tend to assume if they for some reason list a fixed % instead of a +??% bonus) then it seems like the Cyber-Knight might be the only one that the 1%/level actually applies to, since they 're the only one who can actually choose Native Tongue as a skill as others already have it?

Pg 155 also makes me wonder: did anyone ever assume Wild Psi Stalkers might develope their own language instead of it being American? What about wild psi stalkerss who live around Free Quebec battling Xiticix, they don't speak French?

I know I saw it as a blurb in RMB and I think in RUE somewhere in character creation, where it says something to the effect "all characters get 1 or 2 "native languages"

[Axelmania]

I know I saw it as a blurb in RMB and I think in RUE somewhere in character creation, where it says something to the effect "all characters get 1 or 2 "native languages"

That'd be interesting to see, because it's not something I remember seeing anywhere in Rifts, and in other Palladium games that use skill programs (HU, BTS1) the "Automatic Skills" which are "known by all characters" only ever come with ONE language (along with literacy in it, and math)

[Curbludgeon]

Does Kevin Siembieda speak multiple languages?

It seems like an atavistic throwback to early D&D, with its alignment tongues, that many to most people on the North American continent are polyglots in clear opposition to the observable current case. I wonder if it's useful to consider how large a vocabulary certain languages might have. Perhaps Demongogian is like Inuktitut, save for having "100 words for snow" due to being agglutinative has an infinite variety of ways to describe torture, while being unable to describe certain basic concepts. Maybe Faerie is entirely unsuited for a manual on how to repair power armor, or Gobblely with its 900 word lexicon can only be used in the worst poetry.

[green.nova343]

Well, obviously the "American and Dragonese/Elf at 96%" was a straight conversion from RMB (where it didn't differentiate between native & non-native languages). As for how to handle it in the game, there are a couple of things to remember:
-- they can speak Dragonese/Elf, but unless they select the appropriate skill they're not literate in it (i.e. no reading Elvish poetry).
-- Even if they do select Literacy: Dragonese/Elf (which would almost certainly be "Literacy: Other"), they get no bonus to it (unlike their Literacy: American)
So it's safe to say the assumption is that (barring Elven Cyber-Knights), American is the "native" tongue & Dragonese/Elf is an "other" language.

As for how to handle the 96% languages, technically it looks like the assumption is that they're frozen at 96%...but by the time they hit 6th level, their other 2 languages will then surpass those levels. My preference, however, would be to treat it as both are a Language: native, with an 8% skill bonus. That way, both hit 98% by 3rd level.

[Axelmania]

-- Even if they do select Literacy: Dragonese/Elf (which would almost certainly be "Literacy: Other"), they get no bonus to it (unlike their Literacy: American)

Unless of course you're an elf cyber-knight who specifies American was Literacy : Other in which case you can get the higher Literacy: Native.

So it's safe to say the assumption is that (barring Elven Cyber-Knights), American is the "native" tongue & Dragonese/Elf is an "other" language.

It's a sensible enough assumption when CKs are recruiting outsiders, though I kinda wonder about the offspring of cyber-knights... you could plausibly have Dragonese as your native tongue if your mom was a cyber-knight since all CKs know how to speak it.

As for how to handle the 96% languages, technically it looks like the assumption is that they're frozen at 96%...but by the time they hit 6th level, their other 2 languages will then surpass those levels. My preference, however, would be to treat it as both are a Language: native, with an 8% skill bonus. That way, both hit 98% by 3rd level.

I like that retcon, long as we apply that to all the other native languages added to OCCs in RUE

[green.nova343]

-- Even if they do select Literacy: Dragonese/Elf (which would almost certainly be "Literacy: Other"), they get no bonus to it (unlike their Literacy: American)

Unless of course you're an elf cyber-knight who specifies American was Literacy : Other in which case you can get the higher Literacy: Native.

LOL, makes me think of the "trailer park" elves from Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International urban fantasy series. Although given how steeped in tradition elves tend to be portrayed (I would rather call it "so hidebound & stuck in the past they need an attitude adjustment", but that might be species-ist of me, LOL), I'd probably have the player provide a very detailed backstory as to how that occurred...

So it's safe to say the assumption is that (barring Elven Cyber-Knights), American is the "native" tongue & Dragonese/Elf is an "other" language.

It's a sensible enough assumption when CKs are recruiting outsiders, though I kinda wonder about the offspring of cyber-knights... you could plausibly have Dragonese as your native tongue if your mom was a cyber-knight since all CKs know how to speak it.

That's a tough question, as you're essentially talking about a bilingual household, a practical situation that occurs in real life as well. However, I'm not sure it would be enough just for the parent (or parents) to also be Cyber-Knights themselves. For example, I still know a decent amount of Spanish (lived in Spain as a missionary for 2 years a couple decades back), but even if we had encouraged any children of ours to learn Spanish (unfortunately we have no kids, long story that still is a bit sensitive even nearly 20 years later) I would never have considered our household to have been "bilingual" in Spanish & English. Aside from the fact that my wife really doesn't know Spanish (except, as she puts it, "enough to get myself stabbed by someone"), there would never have been the kind of immersion in our home that would be required. We're talking about essentially using a language consistently on a daily basis -- not quite 24/7, but pretty close -- to a point where your daily conversations & interactions (at least in your home, if not also out in public) are seamlessly carried out in 2 or more languages, to the point where you're switching back & forth between the 2 languages in the same conversation with no one needing to stop & ask for a translation. I'm not sure that simply having one or both parents be Cyber-Knights (& therefore fluent in both American & Dragonese) would qualify for their child to gain both languages as a native language...not without some other major backstory/role-playing elements (i.e. a community/enclave comprised of maybe 75% current & former Cyber-Knights would be a good start, or maybe they lived in an Elven community).

That being said...I would be open to the possibility of them having a bonus to the Dragonese language skill for having one or more parents being fluent in the language, to reflect that their exposure to the language is more extensive than your typical student learning a language in school/from a tutor.

As for how to handle the 96% languages, technically it looks like the assumption is that they're frozen at 96%...but by the time they hit 6th level, their other 2 languages will then surpass those levels. My preference, however, would be to treat it as both are a Language: native, with an 8% skill bonus. That way, both hit 98% by 3rd level.

I like that retcon, long as we apply that to all the other native languages added to OCCs in RUE

Oh, most definitely. I would handle all of them the same way, especially since I believe there are certain examples in the various books where a particular O.C.C. may be given a "fixed" proficiency in a skill, but the "native" languages listed are not specifically mentioned.

[PSI-Lence]

wot's that M8? ya think yer native language is always yer best innit?

You may not always be he most proficient in your native language, where the familiarity can breed slang, turning into various dialects (look at all the various British dialects, or American dialect of English IE Colour is correct, Color is wrong, but deemed to be correct by Americans)

When learning a second language, you're more likely to be learning textbook examples and be less flippant about changing things (like dropping "U") as you're learning it as a more strict set of rules where a native speaker is more likely to use slang which is going o be incorrect as far as any language guides