Warlocks with dual Elemental Force

[Warshield73]

So the recent discussion on Beefing up the Warlock for Rift's Earth got me to create a Warlock for my convention games. Never really did elemental magic before so wondering if there are limits to what elemental forces a Warlock can have as dual?

Can you be fire and water, can you have earth and air? I had never really given it a lot of thought but some of the discussion in that thread and then the power set of the Elemental Fusionist makes me think maybe not.

If there is anything in the books a reference would be great but also just what do people think.

[Kraynic]

I haven't seen anything in Fantasy that forbids any combination. Air/Earth or Fire/Water are totally fine as far as I know. I would certainly allow it.

I could see having elementals (at least for the 2 elements that warlock represents) behave slightly different as if they aren't as certain of that particular individual as they are about the rest of the warlocks. Maybe other warlocks would think that combination would be odd. Or something... Could add a small amount of RP spice just for going for 2 elements that don't normally mix. I definitely wouldn't go so far as to create some sort of real disadvantage of that choice though. No one has run one of those element combinations in a game that I have been involved with, so I haven't really had to think about it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Idea of elemental opposition was introduced into the Rifts game with he publication of RUE. Because of the Elemental Fusionist text. However, there is no text about how to apply this within the game.

Having side that, there is no text about elemental opposition within any other PB gamebook, that I know of.

(Had an argument about this with other posters. The above text about rifts is as close to saying there is no restriction as I will go. Because that is as much as the text actually goes one way or the other.)

[Shark_Force]

there's nothing against it, nor do I see any particular need for there to be anything against it. nothing that I am aware of indicates that fire elementals hate water elementals or anything like that. certainly in all the discussion of how warlocks and elementals all consider each other brothers (or sisters), and there is not so much as a hint that it only applies to certain elements.

now, dual-element is generally not a great idea in most cases, in my opinion; earth has a lot of spells that build on each other so you kinda want to focus that element, air has way more spells you want than you can learn with 3 spells per level up, never mind dropping that to one per element, so really the only one that I think might conceivably add more than it costs is fire/water, because those two elements tend to have a lot of redundant spell selections where you don't *really* need your 5th way of creating a big cloud of water anyways, nor do you urgently need your 5th way of dealing fire damage in general (but even then, you'll still be missing out on a good spell here and there). there's actually even an earth warlock spell that has extra effects if you also know an air warlock spell (7th or 8th level, can't remember... it's the clay animals one, you need the air spell breath of life or something along those lines to make stone or flesh animals work).

but if you want to do it, go nuts. certainly my opinion on whether it is a mechanically effective option or not should have no bearing on how you choose to have fun.

[Warshield73]

Thanks for the input everyone. I don't know fantasy as well as most other PB games

there's nothing against it, nor do I see any particular need for there to be anything against it. nothing that I am aware of indicates that fire elementals hate water elementals or anything like that. certainly in all the discussion of how warlocks and elementals all consider each other brothers (or sisters), and there is not so much as a hint that it only applies to certain elements.

I wasn't really thinking along the lines of them hating each other. Elementals themselves seem to be above such things, but more thinking they might be incompatible. Especially after rereading the Elemental Fusionist in RUE and Elemental Primordia in Rifter 76 (which is listed as official material). Still you are correct there seems be no reason to forbid such things.

now, dual-element is generally not a great idea in most cases, in my opinion; earth has a lot of spells that build on each other so you kinda want to focus that element, air has way more spells you want than you can learn with 3 spells per level up, never mind dropping that to one per element, so really the only one that I think might conceivably add more than it costs is fire/water, because those two elements tend to have a lot of redundant spell selections where you don't *really* need your 5th way of creating a big cloud of water anyways, nor do you urgently need your 5th way of dealing fire damage in general (but even then, you'll still be missing out on a good spell here and there). there's actually even an earth warlock spell that has extra effects if you also know an air warlock spell (7th or 8th level, can't remember... it's the clay animals one, you need the air spell breath of life or something along those lines to make stone or flesh animals work).

After going through the Warlock OCC a bit I think dual elements gives the Warlock a quick boost. You have double the number of special powers at 1st level, but by the time you get to 3rd or 4th level the single element Warlock definitely passes them by with the number of spells.

but if you want to do it, go nuts. certainly my opinion on whether it is a mechanically effective option or not should have no bearing on how you choose to have fun.

I largely agree with your assessment. Like I said I've done very little with elemental magic and nothing with so I just wanted to see if I was missing something. I doubt I will use

[Axelmania]

I know of no embargo against opposing elements though the NPCs you see as dual warlocks tend not to be.

[Library Ogre]

Huh. I'd have to look at the books, particularly Dragons and Gods, again, but it occurs to me: Are there necessarily 4 elemental planes? Could there not be a single elemental plane, and the "elementals" are simply the spirits of those planes pressed into one of the four elements? If that were the case, the elemental life signs within the warlock would come from the warlock themselves, not from the elemental spirits.

I may be completely wrong, but it would be a bit interesting.

[Warshield73]

Huh. I'd have to look at the books, particularly Dragons and Gods, again, but it occurs to me: Are there necessarily 4 elemental planes? Could there not be a single elemental plane, and the "elementals" are simply the spirits of those planes pressed into one of the four elements? If that were the case, the elemental life signs within the warlock would come from the warlock themselves, not from the elemental spirits.

I may be completely wrong, but it would be a bit interesting.

It's an interesting idea but the description in most books imply that they are separate planes. Now in Dimension Book 7: Megaverse Builder pg. 24 it is explicate that these are separate dimensions and they are connected to something Central Elemental Plane which is a separate dimension as well.

To me the Elemental planes are probably similar to Dyval where these might be individual layers within the same dimension.