Training Unlimited?

[pad300]

To come back to the topic for a bit - if you did a training unlimited book, you could give a small section to training to use super powers, making official rules for doing things like Shock's proficiency with her super abilities. Similar maybe with magic/psi. Even if the focus is on the special training categories, a little bit for everyone usually helps with sales...

[Warshield73]

I think its tough to make flashbangs etc effective without making them overpowering. Not to mention that overall they don't work near as well in open areas. I've seen vids of people throwing flashbangs out in a parking lot and it doesn't really hurt much.

I know a campus cop who had a few injuries when one bounced next to him in a training session but in general I don't think they hurt much. Like I said before I have just messed around with reducing the duration of the penalty.

on a similar note, cloud of smoke is a damn good spell for lvl 1, and blinding flash is almost as good.

Yes they are which is one of the reasons I haven't messed too much with flashbangs.

To come back to the topic for a bit - if you did a training unlimited book, you could give a small section to training to use super powers, making official rules for doing things like Shock's proficiency with her super abilities. Similar maybe with magic/psi. Even if the focus is on the special training categories, a little bit for everyone usually helps with sales...

If you are doing this what about importing Lore skills from BTS and/or Rifts? I always just add them in but it would be good to add to new skill programs.

[dataweaver]

If there's a reasonable way to build on powers, magic, and psionics that's handled as training to increase effectiveness of existing powers, spells, or Psionic abilities instead of creating new ones, I could see putting it in Training Unlimited. That said, I'd want to keep the page count dedicated to such a section to a minimum, as the bulk of the book ought to be on Special Training and Education & Skills.

But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.

[Warshield73]

I've always thought this should work like Robot/Power Armor combat skills in Rifts or like hand to hand skills. You sacrifice a few skills to be more proficient in your powers. I never did much with this but it could be interesting to have a skill program that has a mix of lore skills with skills that provide bonuses.

[zerombr]

Feels like a skill tax to me. I don't know many mages who would pass up extra training.

[Warshield73]

Feels like a skill tax to me. I don't know many mages who would pass up extra training.

I never liked that phrase skill tax. I have actually heard it a lot with piloting skills where they have to take combat separate from the piloting skill. Some players want a generalist so they want more skills and to other things. A person who wants the ultimate mage will sacrifice those skills to be a better mage but won't have much versatility.

Now I have never used a system like this, and I'm not sure I would like it at all, but I can see this being an addition to a skills book.

[Stone Gargoyle]

But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.

I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

[zerombr]

I never liked that phrase skill tax. I have actually heard it a lot with piloting skills where they have to take combat separate from the piloting skill. Some players want a generalist so they want more skills and to other things. A person who wants the ultimate mage will sacrifice those skills to be a better mage but won't have much versatility.

Now I have never used a system like this, and I'm not sure I would like it at all, but I can see this being an addition to a skills book.

I think its a sound argument though. Think about how you could take Pilot Aircraft but not Read Sensory Equipment. It may be possible to do it, but it sure seems logical that you'd need RSE. The sacrifice would have to be pretty severe to be a worthy tradeoff. Hell, we already have battle mages and such, so IDK if having more of that stuff is worth it.*

*Said by someone who was just about to write up something in that same vein, so I know how hypocritical it sounds.

[dataweaver]

On the mystic training thing, I think that someone who is specifically trained for more effective use of his powers (or spells, or whatever) would be more along the lines of an Ancient Master, conceptually: he's dedicated his life to mastering the intricacies of his powers, and is lacking in all but the most basic skills. Forgo the usual Education & Skills rules, and get an extremely limited set of skills and a few upgrades to your powers. If power training is just a skill or even a skill program, everyone will take it if they can.

Aside from that, one of the things I like about the skill programs setup is that it mitigates the skill tax. There are no hard requirements on how many or how few skills are in a Program; so if you have a bunch of related skills that are individually overly specialized or otherwise not particularly useful, you can just put more skills in the Program until you have enough to make it worth taking.

[zerombr]

the immortal master mage might be the closest you'd get to, currently.

[dataweaver]

But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.

I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.

As for a book dedicated solely to skills: you might be right from a purely game system perspective: I could easily see there being enough material to fill a book with nothing but skills. But from a marketing perspective, that lacks the “cool factor” that the average gamer is going to want to see. That's where upgraded Special Training comes in.

[zerombr]

We have too dang many skills as it is, IMO. but thats another topic. lol

[Warshield73]

On the mystic training thing, I think that someone who is specifically trained for more effective use of his powers (or spells, or whatever) would be more along the lines of an Ancient Master, conceptually: he's dedicated his life to mastering the intricacies of his powers, and is lacking in all but the most basic skills. Forgo the usual Education & Skills rules, and get an extremely limited set of skills and a few upgrades to your powers. If power training is just a skill or even a skill program, everyone will take it if they can.

This is what I have wanted for HU for a long time. A character who wants a lot of skills, who wants to do things other that her/his powers, can have them. Those that want to be the ultimate in there power category can use skills to really bring this up.

But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.

I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.

I've said it before but I think I prefer the system in BTS. The HU skill programs are just so generic and if you random roll it then characters have a really hard time creating the character they want. The BTS system has actual occupations with some personality to it. Now I'm still using HU system for my characters but I wouldn't mind a brand new skill system for HU.

We have too dang many skills as it is, IMO. but thats another topic. lol

There is no such things as too many of anything in a game. Avery super power, psionic, magic spell, power armor, or skill is just one more choice a player gets on the way to making the perfect character. Plus, like everything else, if there are skills you don't like don't use them.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.

More education options, skills and skill programs is what I'm referring to.

As for a book dedicated solely to skills: you might be right from a purely game system perspective: I could easily see there being enough material to fill a book with nothing but skills. But from a marketing perspective, that lacks the “cool factor” that the average gamer is going to want to see. That's where upgraded Special Training comes in.

You have a point. I'm just saying it makes more sense to break skills up into their own book.

[dataweaver]

For what it's worth, the majority of the Special Training subtypes are skill-based, too — they're just based on skills that are only available through special training.

But I tend to agree that Training Unlimited should mostly be about the skills. Things like the gadgets that spies get, or the martial arts powers that Ancient Masters get, should be kept to a minimum. Likewise with the proposed Powers Training idea. And if there's not enough space, these are the things that should be cut first.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I have also long thought that there should be a Dancer Special Training, where the character can combine dance and combat.

[zerombr]

Battle Dancer, yeah. I know how I'd do it too, but I think it'd be more for Fantasy

[Stone Gargoyle]

Battle Dancer, yeah. I know how I'd do it too, but I think it'd be more for Fantasy

I could see it being adapted for the urban jungle, too, though. Inner city hiphop hero. LOL

[dataweaver]

I think it would work best as a type of physical training.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I think it would work best as a type of physical training.

However you would want to do it. I've written it up a variation of it as a superability as well. Dancing is one skill that is not developed enough in the books as it is currently written.

[dataweaver]

I'm thinking that physical training might be a good basis for a “battle dancer”; but Stage Magician might work better as an different take on a dancer that focuses more on her role as an entertainer and less on her as a kind of fighter. (You might also consider singers and other musicians in the same way, riffing off of the Stage Magician as Entertainer notion.)

More generally, I think a good policy would be that whenever you're tempted to introduce a new kind of Special Training, first check to see if you can achieve the same results using an existing kind, or a tweaked version of an existing kind. Only invent a new kind if the amount of tweaking you'd have to do pretty much amounts to creating a new kind anyway.

[zerombr]

Essentially, I'd have it replace parkour as the stunting skill for my article,

[Stone Gargoyle]

I'm thinking that physical training might be a good basis for a “battle dancer”; but Stage Magician might work better as an different take on a dancer that focuses more on her role as an entertainer and less on her as a kind of fighter. (You might also consider singers and other musicians in the same way, riffing off of the Stage Magician as Entertainer notion.)

Not all dancers are entertainers. I was thinking more along the lines of a fighting style than a performance skill set. But it could be developed either way. It would just be nice to have more options.

More generally, I think a good policy would be that whenever you're tempted to introduce a new kind of Special Training, first check to see if you can achieve the same results using an existing kind, or a tweaked version of an existing kind. Only invent a new kind if the amount of tweaking you'd have to do pretty much amounts to creating a new kind anyway.

I already do that, but it would be nice to see how somebody else would develop it as well.

[gaby]

What do you think of the Special training types from Rifter 79,80,81,82 and 83?

[dataweaver]

They're the inspiration for this topic.

[zerombr]

Answer the question! Lol

[Rogerd]

How is this progressing?
Completed or still WiP?

[Rogerd]

Okay looking at the physical training categories, there is one that has absolutely no place in a contemporary game.

Stage Magician. They are fine in a retro 80's game, where you can have the likes of Knightrider, Airwolf, Bionic Man / Woman, or a Ninja master - where there is currently still an air of mystery about them. But not in a current game.

All those that engage in physical training need to be able to pick up minor super powers that are training orientated, best to call these talents, as they require training.

The best examples of Training Unlimited in modern media is Arrowverse, without a doubt. We have Slade Wilson who was SpecOps and then turned Super Soldier before being completely human. Oliver Queen who was essentially a Weapon Master, combined with some martial arts training courtesy of Ra's Al Ghul.

At the bottom of each of re-writes i tend to include a media example so players know the kind of level i am talking about here.

So a training list needs to include:

Ancient Master-
Example: You’re Pei Mei, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Mart Arts Master
Talents: Pick Five

Assassin-
Example: You’re Black Widow, or Jason Bourne, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Assassin or Martial Arts,
Talents: Pick One Mind-Over-Matter

Hunter-
Examples: You are Billy Sole (Predator), or if a Yuatja (Predator) could be human.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Boxing, Expert
Talents: Two, heightened senses

Physical Training-
Traits: Peak
HTH: Martial Arts (Pick two)
Talents: Pick Five, 3x Mind-Over-Matter

SpecOps-
Examples: You’re John Reese, or Frank Castle, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Expert, Martial Arts
Talents: Pick One, Mind-Over-Matter

Spy-
Examples: You’re Sidney Bristow or James Bond or at least someone like them.
Traits: Athletic
HTH: Boxing, Expert,
Talents: Pick One, Mind-Over-Matter

Weapons Master-
Examples: You’re Oliver Queen (Arrow) or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Martial Arts & Weapons
Talents: Pick three

So it would work to compile a list of talents (minor super powers) that they can use. For this I include any type of heightened senses, Mind over matter, Power Strike at lower levels.

At intermediate levels they can boost their abilities to enhanced, as well as enhanced senses, disruptive touch, lighting reflexes and power channelling.

And lastly let's look at comic book Batman. He has Physical Training, Genius Intellect (Genius Category), Hardware, and also an Ancient Master. So I think it is essential at higher level games to allow players to multi-class (to use a DnD term), and advance one, or more OCC's equally in order to remain relevant in a higher power game.

Let's look at DCEU Batman, while he was an absolute physical beast, capable of lifting literally hundreds of pounds (way above Arrowverse Oliver), he was inferior in a lot of ways, and despite Ollie's physical irrelevance in some of the Arrowverse crossovers that included Supergirl / Superman, he still remained useful due to his tactical and risk assessment ability.

[Regularguy]

Okay looking at the physical training categories, there is one that has absolutely no place in a contemporary game.

Stage Magician. They are fine in a retro 80's game, where you can have the likes of Knightrider, Airwolf, Bionic Man / Woman, or a Ninja master - where there is currently still an air of mystery about them. But not in a current game.

For a ‘training’ schtick that can grow with the Stage Magician, even in a current game, how about Has A Gadget On Him? Compared to the other ‘skill’ characters, he’s already the Palming/Cardsharp/Concealment expert — and the contortionist who stashes hidden tools in tailor-made pockets that may not even be felt in a search — so if anyone is going to (a) be the guy who apparently has nothing up his sleeve, only to (b) suddenly produce stuff with a cinematic flourish, it’s him, right?

Sure, in a retro ‘80s game where the other characters are the likes of Knight Rider or Airwolf, maybe a stage magician pulls his weight as the air-of-mystery guy with Pretty Useful Stuff in a secret-lining garment; but, in a current game, can it just be that he has Much Better Stuff on his person? He’d still be the one specialist for whom it makes sense to play innocuous delivery system for whatever gear he’s deftly smuggling around; it’d merely be that his gear changes with the times.

[Rogerd]

Okay looking at the physical training categories, there is one that has absolutely no place in a contemporary game.

Stage Magician. They are fine in a retro 80's game, where you can have the likes of Knightrider, Airwolf, Bionic Man / Woman, or a Ninja master - where there is currently still an air of mystery about them. But not in a current game.

For a ‘training’ schtick that can grow with the Stage Magician, even in a current game, how about Has A Gadget On Him? Compared to the other ‘skill’ characters, he’s already the Palming/Cardsharp/Concealment expert — and the contortionist who stashes hidden tools in tailor-made pockets that may not even be felt in a search — so if anyone is going to (a) be the guy who apparently has nothing up his sleeve, only to (b) suddenly produce stuff with a cinematic flourish, it’s him, right?

Sure, in a retro ‘80s game where the other characters are the likes of Knight Rider or Airwolf, maybe a stage magician pulls his weight as the air-of-mystery guy with Pretty Useful Stuff in a secret-lining garment; but, in a current game, can it just be that he has Much Better Stuff on his person? He’d still be the one specialist for whom it makes sense to play innocuous delivery system for whatever gear he’s deftly smuggling around; it’d merely be that his gear changes with the times.

A SM could only be useful in a modern game if you multi-class such that he would have to be a Hardware Genius in one or more ways in order to pull that off. A SM is not going to have superior kit compared to Green Arrow or Batman.

Thing is his physical irrelevance, he cannot compete with my list above in HU game - but may, and I say may work in a N&S game I guess.

Dunno, maybe it is just me not seeing what you're seeing to make it work in a HU game.....

[Regularguy]

A SM could only be useful in a modern game if you multi-class such that he would have to be a Hardware Genius in one or more ways in order to pull that off. A SM is not going to have superior kit compared to Green Arrow or Batman.

Thing is his physical irrelevance, he cannot compete with my list above in HU game - but may, and I say may work in a N&S game I guess.

Dunno, maybe it is just me not seeing what you're seeing to make it work in a HU game.....

I guess my idea is: picture a time when Oliver Queen or Bruce Wayne would want to bring a super-useful piece of gear into a courtroom or a society event or a police station or whatever, but walking through the front door means getting wanded by a guy with a metal detector. So Green Arrow or Batman would maybe suit up and try to ninja through a less-convenient route; but a stage magician can just stroll right in.

Or picture a scenario where James Bond gets locked up by folks who’ll eventually interrogate him, but who wouldn’t actually let him keep his fancy wristwatch or expensive pen while imprisoning him; plenty of 007 movies run on the idea that Q hands some nifty gadgets to the guy, but those items would presumably get removed from a character who lacks a special hiding-it-on-their-person ability.

Starting there, you could even parlay it into offscreen effects: he could be the guy who can just sort of declare that he planted a bug when our heroes were at Point A, or that he planted some explosives at Point B; that could maybe set him apart from other characters, announcing that (a) he’d had something useful on him, and that (b) he smuggled it past security before distracted onlookers failed to notice him placing it with his left hand as they busily watched him gesture with his right.

So it’s the gear that’s doing the work; but the gear is only useful given someone with a special-training knack for getting it into position...

[Zenviscaype]

Would anyone buy a book that's made up of the Physical Training, Stage Magician, and Super Sleuth articles from the Rifter, along with similar upgrades for the other Special Training types (Ancient Master, Hunter/Vigilante, and Special Operative), the Ancient Weapon Master from Powers Unlimited 2 (unless that gets folded into the Ancient Master), possibly a few new ones (e.g., Professional Thief), and maybe even something like the Natural Genius from Heroes Unlimited 2 (as a sort of complement to the Physical Training upgrade)? Basically, a book dedicated to heroes who are extraordinary not because of any powers or exotic equipment, but because of the training they've undergone.

Yes I would buy that book. I should have more information on the world organizations and cover the hardware category. Such a book in my opinion would be awesome. Oh and add the city from the Rifter. It would than be an all encompassing book.

[Zenviscaype]

Okay looking at the physical training categories, there is one that has absolutely no place in a contemporary game.

Stage Magician. They are fine in a retro 80's game, where you can have the likes of Knightrider, Airwolf, Bionic Man / Woman, or a Ninja master - where there is currently still an air of mystery about them. But not in a current game.

All those that engage in physical training need to be able to pick up minor super powers that are training orientated, best to call these talents, as they require training.

The best examples of Training Unlimited in modern media is Arrowverse, without a doubt. We have Slade Wilson who was SpecOps and then turned Super Soldier before being completely human. Oliver Queen who was essentially a Weapon Master, combined with some martial arts training courtesy of Ra's Al Ghul.

At the bottom of each of re-writes i tend to include a media example so players know the kind of level i am talking about here.

So a training list needs to include:

Ancient Master-
Example: You’re Pei Mei, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Mart Arts Master
Talents: Pick Five

Assassin-
Example: You’re Black Widow, or Jason Bourne, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Assassin or Martial Arts,
Talents: Pick One Mind-Over-Matter

Hunter-
Examples: You are Billy Sole (Predator), or if a Yuatja (Predator) could be human.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Boxing, Expert
Talents: Two, heightened senses

Physical Training-
Traits: Peak
HTH: Martial Arts (Pick two)
Talents: Pick Five, 3x Mind-Over-Matter

SpecOps-
Examples: You’re John Reese, or Frank Castle, or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Expert, Martial Arts
Talents: Pick One, Mind-Over-Matter

Spy-
Examples: You’re Sidney Bristow or James Bond or at least someone like them.
Traits: Athletic
HTH: Boxing, Expert,
Talents: Pick One, Mind-Over-Matter

Weapons Master-
Examples: You’re Oliver Queen (Arrow) or at least someone like them.
Traits: Olympic
HTH: Martial Arts & Weapons
Talents: Pick three

So it would work to compile a list of talents (minor super powers) that they can use. For this I include any type of heightened senses, Mind over matter, Power Strike at lower levels.

At intermediate levels they can boost their abilities to enhanced, as well as enhanced senses, disruptive touch, lighting reflexes and power channelling.

And lastly let's look at comic book Batman. He has Physical Training, Genius Intellect (Genius Category), Hardware, and also an Ancient Master. So I think it is essential at higher level games to allow players to multi-class (to use a DnD term), and advance one, or more OCC's equally in order to remain relevant in a higher power game.

Let's look at DCEU Batman, while he was an absolute physical beast, capable of lifting literally hundreds of pounds (way above Arrowverse Oliver), he was inferior in a lot of ways, and despite Ollie's physical irrelevance in some of the Arrowverse crossovers that included Supergirl / Superman, he still remained useful due to his tactical and risk assessment ability.

The ideas are dead on here. The Heroes book would change HU2 and make it balanced and still lots of fun.

[Rogerd]

The ideas are dead on here. The Heroes book would change HU2 and make it balanced and still lots of fun.

Thanks mate, I have full blurb written for all of these in fact.
Now although a lot have Olympic stats, they are also not totally equal in that regard, sort of how, you are fit for what you do.

Stats
Ancient Master = Olympic. They are basically Shaolin Monks dialled to eleven. Some of the physical feats you see them perform such as climbing ropes upside down, balancing on one finger that kind of stuff. It has also enabled them to somehow achieve mystical or inner abilities that confound science, it isn't magic, but it is near as it can be.

Assassin = Olympic. Think of them as a cross between Parkour and Calisthenics. Able to hold their body horizontal with both hands for minutes on end without needing to rest or drop to the ground. Hold positions on a bar or ledge that you would expect to see Olympic athletes perform.

Physical Training = Peak. They take the best of what all the others can do, and then take it to a whole other level. Their methods are a cross between ancient traditions and the best that science has to offer. Their bodies are temples of pure organic excellence, good diet, right training with correct rest periods. Everything they do is geared towards being better at combat. As a result many develop regimes to improve their weapon of choice. Simply put when it comes to physical achievement they are the dog’s bollocks.

SpecOps = Olympic. What this means is that they can do dozens of pull ups but are unable to do the more esoteric stuff you would see a Calisthenics athlete perform. They are able to carry heavy objects on their backs, march for miles, and are basically combat focused.

Spy = Athletic. They have a good grasp of moving their own body weight, over walls, holding one position for short amounts of time. They are the weakest physically but they more than make up for it in knowledge of state-of-the-art technology.

I have even gone so far as to be partway through creating categories, so Enhanced (thanks MCU) are those that are: Mutants, Metahumans, Bionics, Super Soldier, or Eugenic, or Uplifts (TMNT animals).

I am redesigning the powers, now called Empowerment, into three categories-

Lesser: Only do one thing.
Intermediate: Is similar to a small toolbox, in that you have a limited number of options
Greater: Very similar to a graphics suite, you have almost unlimited options available to you.

Hopefully this would do something to balance the powers.

I also went as far as to separate out 'magic' into two categories as well.
One is more scientifically based, like you would see in Star Trek, or other space operas _ call this etheric energy. And it is something everyone uses in HU setting, whether through Arcane means, Innate, or Spiritual methods (kind of stole this idea from Alpha Omega RPG).

Power Levels-
Street Level: Green Arrow, Titans
Low Meta: X-Men
Medium: Cannot think of anything right now.....
Greater: MCU Avengers
Exalted: DCEU Justice League

[Stone Gargoyle]

What do you think of the Special training types from Rifter 79,80,81,82 and 83?

I am currently in the process of obtaining these Rifters. Which training types are in which books?

[Fermat]

79: Updated Stage Magician, 81: SUper Sleuth, 82: Physical Training, 83: Hunter and Spy.
When you're looking for specialized training, you might also want the updated Ancient Weapons Master from 74.

[Stone Gargoyle]

79: Updated Stage Magician, 81: SUper Sleuth, 82: Physical Training, 83: Hunter and Spy.
When you're looking for specialized training, you might also want the updated Ancient Weapons Master from 74.

Cool. I thought Stage Magician was updated in an earlier Rifter though .

[Fermat]

There's another version of the Stage Magician at R:49

[Stone Gargoyle]

There's another version of the Stage Magician at R:49

I think I have that one. Thanks.

[Incriptus]

One option I want is for my Training Unlimited character to be better at his area of expertise than a character that "rolled" a PHD or Military Specialist. Not just better but explicitly and fundamentally better. Comparing someone PHD to a hardware should be like comparing someone who took Hand to Hand Martial Arts with an Ancient Master.

I hear my own cries of "power creep" but I do believe that between the existing classes and Ninja's and Superspies that the "cinematic" or "literary" training characters are pretty well represented. What I think we're missing is the "comicbook" character who's degree is in "science".

[gaby]

I like it,will have all the Update Spicial Training types from Rifter and all Abilities they get.

Will it also have all Sample characters from Rifter too?

What Spicial Training Abilities from one can wokr for a another type?

[Rogerd]

One option I want is for my Training Unlimited character to be better at his area of expertise than a character that "rolled" a PHD or Military Specialist. Not just better but explicitly and fundamentally better. Comparing someone PHD to a hardware should be like comparing someone who took Hand to Hand Martial Arts with an Ancient Master.

I hear my own cries of "power creep" but I do believe that between the existing classes and Ninja's and Superspies that the "cinematic" or "literary" training characters are pretty well represented. What I think we're missing is the "comicbook" character who's degree is in "science".

What is PHD?

Personally any of the martial artists from N&S do not get chi powers in my games. They are just straight up excellent martial artists but they are strictly a lower level type of game. Kind of putting Lee Van Cleef's Ninja Master with Lee Major's Bionic Man.

Ancient Masters only draw their power from their innate bio-energy, same as those that possess super powers. AM's have uncovered, or realised hidden teachings that others would not, making them a notch beyond most others. The Shih from Mystic China were renamed for my games as Martial Adepts or just Adepts, they on the other hand have mastered dozen or more martial arts.

The Shih are the ones that have uncovered magic, mental magic, and do not need to use invocations.

As to the skill issue, don't pick individual skills then, your character just gets the whole set of skills at whatever percentage they purchase (if you do point buy) / roll. They can then pick specialisations if they wish - so they may want to refine their science knowledge, and also have Quantum physics. I would judge that as it is a special and rather unique knowledge it costs double.

What Spicial Training Abilities from one can wokr for a another type?

I split them into different templates: Training, Mental, Enhanced, Powered.
Certain types of character may take certain other template options, but not all will work with certain templates.
For example an Ancient Master will likely not become Enhanced as it would mess with their abilities - but the most likely Powered option would be Inner Power (Mystic), although they could easily go the Arcane path too.

[Stone Gargoyle]

What is PHD?

It denotes the education level. As in, they earned their PHD.

[gaby]

Well from Super Sleuth I think Pain Tolerance and pressure points stun,pain and damage can wokr for Anicent Master.

[gaby]

I hope they add More Mental disciplines for Natural Genius,PU 2 only gived 11 of them.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I hope they add More Mental disciplines for Natural Genius,PU 2 only gived 11 of them.

I don't think theey need more than that. And when someone I know actually plays a Natural Genius it might actually become an issue.

[Rogerd]

I hope they add More Mental disciplines for Natural Genius,PU 2 only gived 11 of them.

All you do is add minor super powers like you would with an ancient master.

[gaby]

I love it if they add all Sample characters from Rifter,in the book.

What do you think the Sample characters?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I love it if they add all Sample characters from Rifter,in the book.

What do you think the Sample characters?

I never use characters from any source. I prefer to create my own. As far as the materials in the Rifter, it is more complicated to create a character than I prefer.

[zerombr]

I've been wanting to update the Stage Mage a bit more, to bring it more in line with the others. focus on the stealth and precise strikes idea, but yeah its never going to be a big name hero idea. Its definitely niche, even at its most badass.