Savage Topics on the PMB

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Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Library Ogre »

If folks have mechanical questions or creations for Savage Rifts, where should they put them on the PMB? The Rifts section? Other Games? Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Fell »

B U M P

I would like to see a spot made here at PB forums also for the Savage Rifts stuff.

I vote: Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by kaid »

Honestly I would almost recommend keeping them in the main rifts section. The upside of that is get people interested in the new savage worlds stuff in forums to expose them to all the other rift stuff out there.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

I tend to think that a sub forum or something might make sense as it'll help make sure people realize it's a Savage World question and not a Rifts one and lead to arguments over systems.


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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Natasha »

hi Daniel. You're new here.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Mark Hall wrote:If folks have mechanical questions or creations for Savage Rifts, where should they put them on the PMB? The Rifts section? Other Games? Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board?


There is a main thread for the Player's Guide in the Rifts section currently, and there are the Pinnacle forums as well.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Glistam »

I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.

Since Savage Rifts is currently only available to the Kickstarter supporters, maybe a private forum like the Sound Off forum would be the more appropriate option? Then once the books are released for sale the forum could be opened up to all.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Glistam wrote:I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.


That's needed a revision for decades.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Natasha »

Glistam wrote:I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.

Since Savage Rifts is currently only available to the Kickstarter supporters, maybe a private forum like the Sound Off forum would be the more appropriate option? Then once the books are released for sale the forum could be opened up to all.

Maybe. But one good way to get someone interested in buying the game is to let them read about it. As is it, I already have a Savage Rifts game so I don't need to buy one if I want to play Savage Rifts but I might be made to want to buy one.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Mack »

We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Mack wrote:We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.


Two decades of policy doesn't get reversed overnight. We can take a little delay. =)
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Rallan »

Mack wrote:We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.


Wait, I...

No, nothing good can come from asking why the board admins need permission to open a subforum, or you need to get legal advice about whether we can talk rules conversions between the rules Palladium uses and the rules a licensed Savage Worlds spinoff of one of Palladium's games uses. That way madness lies.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Sureshot »

Agreed and seconded with Rallan. I brought up the topic of conversions twice. Long before the SW Rifts were released. As usual looks like it's being looked into after the fact.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Library Ogre »

While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Tiree »

Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by palladiumjunkie »

Tiree wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!


Exactly what I was going to say.

On the topic at hand, though, this was in tonight's update...

PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE - 2016-07-08 wrote:UPDATE: Savage Rifts® for Savage Worlds

Excitement continues to run high for Savage Rifts® from Pinnacle Entertainment for the Savage Worlds game system. Palladium is working with Pinnacle to allow fans to create conversions and fan materials on the Palladium website and elsewhere. The official policy will be coming soon.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Marcus »

palladiumjunkie wrote:
Tiree wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!


Exactly what I was going to say.

On the topic at hand, though, this was in tonight's update...

PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE - 2016-07-08 wrote:UPDATE: Savage Rifts® for Savage Worlds

Excitement continues to run high for Savage Rifts® from Pinnacle Entertainment for the Savage Worlds game system. Palladium is working with Pinnacle to allow fans to create conversions and fan materials on the Palladium website and elsewhere. The official policy will be coming soon.


Coming soon. How much I dread the use of these two simple words by PB.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Rallan »

"Working to allow?" As if fans doing fan conversions for their favorite RPGs some monumental and unprecedented thing that nobody in the history of RPG fandom has ever dared to dream of before.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Josh Hilden »

There is nothing wrong or illegal with fan conversions as long as there's not profit involved.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Josh Hilden wrote:There is nothing wrong or illegal with fan conversions as long as there's not profit involved.


Nothing wrong with? I agree.

Nothing illegal? Well... That's not quite true.

I'm a librarian, and I work with copyright issues a lot. One of the things we have to remind people about is that profit doesn't enter into it. Intellectual property can be infringed without a profit being turned by the person doing the infringing, and indeed this happens all the time. Technically, any IP holder has the right to request that outside parties don't use their material in situations that haven't been specifically licensed. In practice, most game companies have permitted it, since it builds healthier communities and acts as free advertising. Palladium is notable (though not unique) in being a company that doesn't permit it.

On the other hand, it was ruled a while back that "rules systems" don't count as intellectual property and can't be copyrighted, only setting material, fiction, and other similar things. This directly led to the boom of the so-called Old School Revolution, where companies would make "retro-clones" of older versions of D&D and release them with new fluff and settings. Technically, you could do the same thing with Palladium's house system, but it probably doesn't have a market for a retro-clone considering it's still being actively published in a form that hasn't really changed in 25+ years.

Short version: It doesn't matter if you're making money from it or not. If the IP holder says "no conversions," then you're technically infringing. (However, let me also say that actual court cases involved in non-profit infringing almost never result in punitive damages or other monetary compensation equivalent to the asked-for damages, so it's not worth it for a company as small as 99% of gaming companies.)
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Todd Yoho »

The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Rallan »

Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.


Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.


Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...


perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Shark_Force wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.


Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...


perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.


Pretty well glacial change by any standard in the industry. In that same time, we've had five editions of AD&D, seven editions of Call of Cthulhu, and six editions of RuneQuest--and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that were around when Palladium started.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Tiree »

blackwingedheaven wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.


Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...


perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.


Pretty well glacial change by any standard in the industry. In that same time, we've had five editions of AD&D, seven editions of Call of Cthulhu, and six editions of RuneQuest--and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that were around when Palladium started.

I think we are on 6 or 7 Editions of Star Wars, between 3 different game companies.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Mack wrote:It's not my sandbox. I just play in it.


:lol:

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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Forar »

I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Damian Magecraft »

Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Rallan »

Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?


More realistically, shouldn't this be something that doesn't even need sorting out in the first place? Nobody else has to run off and get legal advice about whether to let RPG fans post fan conversions or original material on RPG forums.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Damian Magecraft »

Rallan wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?


More realistically, shouldn't this be something that doesn't even need sorting out in the first place? Nobody else has to run off and get legal advice about whether to let RPG fans post fan conversions or original material on RPG forums.
given the fact that PEG has a similar (if slightly less stringent) policy...
no.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

Here is a link to the answer Pinnacle posted last year.

Savage World Rifts and Conversions
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by ScottBernard »

Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]


And what was that rudeness in aid of?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Forar »

ScottBernard wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]


And what was that rudeness in aid of?


The PB forums maintaining their reputation?

Truly, I have been told.

;-)
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Damian Magecraft »

Forar wrote:
ScottBernard wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]


And what was that rudeness in aid of?


The PB forums maintaining their reputation?

Truly, I have been told.

;-)
considering the comment was the opening salvo in yet another round of how even when PB does something the fans ask for they still can't do it right?
the sarcasm was warranted.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Forar »

As a point of order, they haven't done anything but say that it's being worked on.

RRT is also being worked on, and nearly 38 months later let me tell you how comforting it is to hear that something is 'being worked on'.

And poking fun aside, they are the ones who bought up how long it took. If this was a 6 week or 6 month turnaround, sure, things get lost in the shuffle.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Sureshot »

I agree with Forar. Them saying it's being worked on does not inspire much confidence. RTT has been being worked on for months and little to no progress on that. Until I actually see a policy on conversions. I'm going to assume that it will take months as well.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by NMI »

In regards to Savage Rifts, I am waiting on feedback from Kevin. Once I have the ok, I will be putting together a disclaimer of sorts - what sort of conversions can/cannot be posted, questions, etc...
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by kaid »

One thing I hope will be allowed is there are some really nice character creator programs it would be nice if they are allowed to use the new batch of skills/templates. It is one big strength with savage worlds with the more generic way you do characters its a lot easier to have a character generator.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by MurderCityDisciple »

Is Savage Rifts out yet?

It looks frikken amazing. Full color...sweet character sheets...modern system. Gonna buy it for sure.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by palladiumjunkie »

MurderCityDisciple wrote:Is Savage Rifts out yet?

It looks frikken amazing. Full color...sweet character sheets...modern system. Gonna buy it for sure.


The physical books won't start shipping to backers until around December, and probably be up for pre-order within the next few months. But, the PDFs of the core books have been sent to backers, and they actually went up for sale on DrivethruRPG.com today. Here are the links:

Savage Rifts: The Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide
Savage Rifts: Game Master's Handbook
Savage Rifts: Savage Foes of North America

-Chris
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by MurderCityDisciple »

3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by palladiumjunkie »

MurderCityDisciple wrote:3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...


And... if you missed out on the Kickstarter, you can now pre-order from PEG's site. Looks like they are targeting January ship date for pre-orders.

Savage Rifts® Preorder Bundle

-Chris
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by MurderCityDisciple »

palladiumjunkie wrote:
MurderCityDisciple wrote:3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...


And... if you missed out on the Kickstarter, you can now pre-order from PEG's site. Looks like they are targeting January ship date for pre-orders.

Savage Rifts® Preorder Bundle

-Chris


Amazing stuff....

Makes what we're used to look amateurish.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

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kaid wrote:One thing I hope will be allowed is there are some really nice character creator programs it would be nice if they are allowed to use the new batch of skills/templates. It is one big strength with savage worlds with the more generic way you do characters its a lot easier to have a character generator.

I am curious, other than Lone Wolf Development, who else has a Savage Worlds character generator? Does it allow customization by the user?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Steve Dubya »

NMI wrote:I am curious, other than Lone Wolf Development, who else has a Savage Worlds character generator? Does it allow customization by the user?

There are bunches of them, and that doesn't count the ones that have come out in the last three years.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Steve Dubya »

There's now basically an "official conversion document" for Savage Worlds to Rifts; has there been any further response as to how fans might address this?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by Spinachcat »

Anyone playing Savage Rifts?

Your thoughts?
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by blackwingedheaven »

Spinachcat wrote:Anyone playing Savage Rifts?

Your thoughts?


Been running a campaign since the pdfs went to Kickstarter backers. It's been a hell of a lot of fun. It captures all of the gonzo enjoyment of the setting without having to do stuff like having one round of combat take two hours. I've had a couple of players leave for real-life reasons recently, so I've got two new players joining tomorrow. This will be their first real campaign, so I'm excited to see what they think of Rifts.
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Re: Savage Topics on the PMB

Unread post by zyanitevp »

Steve President George W. Bush wrote:There's now basically an "official conversion document" for Savage Worlds to Rifts; has there been any further response as to how fans might address this?

We are waiting for an official reply.
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