Rules Question: Crossfire and Close Formation

[tgunner91]

I'm thinking it's just a bad example. A UEDF squadron has, usually, 4 mecha and with support cards can go to 8. They could form a skirmish line roughly 16" long and could get close formation AND crossfire. Maybe. The Zents with 8+ mecha per squadron could easily pull this off.

So yeah, it's just not a good picture for the example. It's there to show you, roughly, how it could work. However you must have units in proper cohesion distances to pull it off. That's all.

As for question two- yes, you're trading tactical flexibility for the +1 to strike. Normally you would shoot one mecha at a time and see the results from each system before you move on. With the close formation everyone shoots with the same system at the same time. Like a modern tank platoon volleying on the platoon leader's command rather than each tank shooting independently at its own commander's orders.

You gain here, but lose there. You have to decide if the trade is worth it.

Also close formation isn't compulsory. Unlike many miniatures games RRPGT doesn't require elements in a unit to be in some sort of cohesion distance from each other, you do it if you want. It's simple enough stay 2+" from another element if you don't want the close formation rule.

[Mike1975]

Crossfire (pg 19) states "If mecha from the same squadron can attack a target mecha from both its front 180 arc and rear 180 arc, then the attacking mecha gain the Crossfire bonus if they attack simultaneously (like close formation)."

Close formation requires mecha to be within 2" of one another.

In the example on page 19, Valkyrie C is not in close formation with Valkyrie A or B. How would any of them get the crossfire benefit by attacking simultaneously? Is there some mechanism that would allow simultaneous attacks other than just being in close formation? Or does this mean that because they have the proper alignment to crossfire, they now get the option to simultaneously attack and thus would get the bonus if they choose to do so? That's really the only thing that makes sense, but it's worded (in my opinion) confusingly if this is the case.

Assuming that's right, could it have been phrased: "If mecha from the same squadron can attack a target mecha from both its front 180 arc and rear 180 arc, then the attacking mecha gain the option to attack simultaneously and gain a Crossfire bonus", leaving out the reference to close formation which was throwing me off?

Also, second question: Close formation says "mecha in the close formation must attack simultaneously". This is much more clear in phrasing, but it's odd to me. It prevents me (because of the word "must") from attacking sequentially just because two or more members of a squadron are near one another. In theory I could be penalized in terms of tactical flexibility because I'm within 2", right?

The page 19 example is ONLY an example of Crossfire not both it you read it.

[Very Fun One Jr]

I agree that it's a poor example, but the scenario is not as implausible or as unlikely as it seems. All that is actually necessary to get crossfire is for two mecha within 2 inches of each other to straddle the line between the targets front and rear arc, one in the target's front arc and one in the back. A daisy chain isn't required.

[Phaze]

Crossfire (pg 19) states "If mecha from the same squadron can attack a target mecha from both its front 180 arc and rear 180 arc, then the attacking mecha gain the Crossfire bonus if they attack simultaneously (like close formation)."

The quote "Like close formation", refers to the attacks and not the restriction of being within 2" of each other. All attacks made by a close formation attack or a crossfire attack (or both) must be declared first and then rolled.

Pros: Get the +1 Bonus to hit.
Cons: Can't pick and choose your shots after the last shot fired, chance of overkill and wasting shots.

Open this in a different window... i.e. Right click and 'open in another window':

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/Jakovaltrade/Robotech%20Games/CrossfireandCloseformation.png

For the below Scenarios, assume the following:

Units A, B, C, D, and E are in the same squad.
Units ABC are in close formation: A is within 2" of B which is in 2" of C.
Units D and E are in close formation (in the later scenarios)
ABCDE all have Gun 1
Green and purple lines show facing for units 1 and 2 respectfully.

Scenario 1:

- ABC can use 'Close Formation Rule' to fire on unit 1 and all shots get a +1 to hit
Note: all must be declared before any of the dice is rolled. If the first dice rolled destroyed Unit 1, the remaining shots are wasted.

Scenario 2:

- ABC can use 'Close Formation Rule' to fire on unit 1 and all shots get a +1 to hit, AND
- Units ABCD can get a Crossfire bonus of +1 AND
- Unit D gets a Backstrike bonus of +1
So
Unit A gets a total of +2
Unit B gets a total of +2
Unit C gets a total of +2
Unit D gets a total of +2
Note: all must be declared before any of the dice is rolled. If the first dice rolled destroyed Unit 1, the remaining shots are wasted.

Scenario 3:

- ABC can use 'Close Formation Rule' to fire on unit 1 and all shots get a +1 to hit, AND
- Units ABCDE can get a Crossfire bonus of +1 AND
- Unit D and E gets a Backstrike bonus of +1 AND
- Units D and E get a 'Close Formation Rule' bonus of +1 (gun 1 in formation with two units)
So
Unit A gets a total of +2
Unit B gets a total of +2
Unit C gets a total of +2
Unit D gets a total of +3
Unit E gets a total of +3

Note: all must be declared before any of the dice is rolled. If the first dice rolled destroyed Unit 1, the remaining shots are wasted.

Scenario 4:

Now things get interesting...

If assuming that all shots are targeted at Unit 1, the same scenario happens as in Scenario 3.

If assuming all shots are targeted on Unit 2 and the attacking player wishes to use Crossfire and Close Formation Bonuses:

- Units ABC gets a +1 for the close formation AND
- Units ABCDE gets a +1 for Crossfire AND
- Units BC gets a +1 for Backstrike AND
- Units DE gets a +1 for Close Formation
So
Unit A gets a total of +2
Unit B gets a total of +3
Unit C gets a total of +3
Unit D gets a total of +2
Unit E gets a total of +2
All shots must be declared before rolling anything.

Now let us split the fire up and see what happens:
ABC will fire on Unit 2
DE will fire on Unit 1
ABC gets a Close Formation bonus of +1 vs Unit 2 AND
ABC gets a Crossfire bonus of +1 vs Unit 2 AND
BC gets a Back strike bonus of +1 vs Unit 2
DE gets a Close Formation (+1) and a rear fire (+1) on Unit 1
So
Unit A gets a total of +2
Unit B gets a total of +3
Unit C gets a total of +3
Unit D gets a total of +2
Unit E gets a total of +2
All shots must be declared for Unit 2 before rolling anything for attacking Unit 2 (resolve Unit 2)
All shots must be declared for Unit 1 before rolling anything for attacking Unit 1 (resolve Unit 1)
In this way, if all of the shots on Unit 2 fail to destroy it, you can opt not to use the DE attacks on unit 1 and instead attack unit 2 in an attempt to finish it off. If you did this, Units DE would get a +1 (Close Formation) , they would not get the crossfire as that had already been resolved.

Any questions, comments, mistakes in my logic?

[Mike1975]

The one thing that I'm not sure Phaze mentions is that although ADCDE are all in one squadron only the units in Close Formation fire simultaneously. So if you have more units like a #3 placed between ABC and #1 you could fire D and E first, resolve, and then fire ABC as if you are trying to whittle down the defenders and want to take out a Glaug or other key mini. Only units in Close Formation fire simultaneously. Ones in the same squadron fire during the same activation step....but do not fire simultaneously except with any and all units from the same squadron that they are in Close Formation with. Tactical movement and combat can be key.

[Phaze]

The one thing that I'm not sure Phaze mentions is that although ADCDE are all in one squadron only the units in Close Formation fire simultaneously. So if you have more units like a #3 placed between ABC and #1 you could fire D and E first, resolve, and then fire ABC as if you are trying to whittle down the defenders and want to take out a Glaug or other key mini. Only units in Close Formation fire simultaneously. Ones in the same squadron fire during the same activation step....but do not fire simultaneously except with any and all units from the same squadron that they are in Close Formation with. Tactical movement and combat can be key.

Good point but I would add that only units that want to use 'Close Formation' AND 'Crossfire' fire simultaneously. You have to declare ALL attacks from 'Close Formation' AND 'Crossfire' if you want to use the bonuses together.

[Phaze]

Phaze,

Looking at your example 4, ABC get the crossfire bonus against Unit 2 even though DE aren't attacking it because they were eligible to attack it AND they're attacking simultaneously (even against another target)?

Nope. ABC gets a crossfire aginst Unit 2 because A is in the front arc and BC is in the rear arc. This is seperate from D and E fire and has no relation to what they do.

I was originally reading it to mean that you'd have to be attacking with a mecha on both sides of the target to get the Crossfire bonus.

And you are. Your reading is correct.