Was there ever an answer .....

[rosco60559]

Was there ever an answer about how miscasts and other issues were going to be handled?

I've seen new good parts be wrong on many levels from all sorts of manufacturers.

[Jorel]

They have yet to respond as far as I know...

[Forar]

That is an excellent question, Rosco.

NMI said he would ask the powers that be.

Surely they have been pondering the best manner of addressing such reasonable and natural concerns.

[rosco60559]

I could have swore someone asked this before and I couldn't find the link. Anyways, I'm figuring if a small percentage of my stuff is miscast then I have wreck markers and objectives but if a huge percent is then I'll be looking for replacements.

[Jorel]

This is the link you are looking for...

[WilhelmRochRedDuke]

I spoke with Kevin and Jeff over this item on Tuesday, The goal is to provide replacement pieces for miscasts, deformities etc.. There is a plan to provide customer service for this. there won't be a need to send them the miscast piece. A phone call will suffice. They have already handled this item a few times due to two or three of the Gencon metal minis missing a piece or having a miscast in the blister. Replacement pieces were sent immediately out.

[Forar]

Thank you for sharing, that is very helpful.

[Morgan Vening]

I spoke with Kevin and Jeff over this item on Tuesday, The goal is to provide replacement pieces for miscasts, deformities etc.. There is a plan to provide customer service for this. there won't be a need to send them the miscast piece. A phone call will suffice. They have already handled this item a few times due to two or three of the Gencon metal minis missing a piece or having a miscast in the blister. Replacement pieces were sent immediately out.

While I appreciate the response six weeks in, I both hope it comes from an official source this week, and I question the wisdom of doing it that way.

First off, international backers having to make potentially expensive phone calls as the primary way of dealing with this, seems wrong.

Second, given the number of sprues, I've got to question the active time this'll eat up. Even if they manage to get sprue error down to 0.1% (and that's an optimistic number, IMO), there's approximately 200,000 sprues being made for Wave 1 (and probably a similar number for Wave 2). Even at 2 minutes for the phonecall, that's still almost a day's worth of disruptions (for each Wave), not including retail issues. And it won't all be immediate, which means the disruptions get scattered throughout the day, disrupting people from the active work they should be doing. The actual replacement time (to select, pack and ship the replacement) is a static amount, but using the most time disruptive method of dealing with it just seems like a bad decision. At least with a snail mail policy (and I'm NOT advocating that), they can deal with that once every couple of days, in a single batch.

[Forar]

Or just get a gmail account or other one set up specifically to deal with this issue alone. Have someone pop in once a day to clear out whatever backlog exists and get the replacement bits on their way.

[rosco60559]

Wrrd,

While I'm appreciative of the answer I'm kinda worried we didn't hear from the powers that be. This is their official forums right? So you can understand the reason why the backer's would like to hear from the higher ups I hope. Especially since it was asked over a month ago in another thread.

[Forar]

Well, to be blindly over-optimistic, perhaps it will get mentioned in the newsletter and/or update this week? The former they seem to hit almost without fail, and after 2 lengthy gaps on updates recently, I'm hoping they get one out tomorrow or Saturday (their usual timeframe seems to be between Thurs evening and Sat evening, historically speaking).

[Maximilian Jenius]

They need an email address. I can't trust or reference a phone call if someone slips up.

[rosco60559]

Well still no official answer huh?

[Jorel]

It should be something they respond to so the whole community can see it. People shouldn't have to individually call in privately to find out if a company has a replacement policy. That is why people keep asking publicly about it.

[Jorel]

They may not post it here, but once there is an answer, someone will likely post a link here.

[wilycoyote]

WWRD I do appreciate the answer but as an International Backer, having to make a phone call or several is simply not an answer in this modern age.

It is likely that parts may be miscast given the high volumes involved and so it seems to make sense to have something in place now rather than wait a trust nothing will happen. It would cost next to nothing (relatively speaking) to set up some sort of web based service that backers (and potential new buyers could use). Easier and cheaper to keep track of than telephone calls and post it notes.

A simple confirmation of the KS would suffice for now and something here once we go retail to advise what support is avalable.

It would be no excuse to say PB simply does not do things this way, this KS has given them a much wider set of customers than they have had in years

[WilhelmRochRedDuke]

I would agree with you on many of your points and I will bring it to PB's attention further to make sure there is a better response and a more modern answer..

[Forar]

The advantages of email go beyond simple record keeping. Describing what is wrong isn't always going to be clear, especially when potentially dealing with language barriers. Being able to attach a picture or pictures of the sprue missing a piece or what has been deformed/short shot/broken could also prove very useful. Email is ubiquitous at this point, and digital cameras (particularly as part of a cell phone), while not quite as widespread, are getting up there. Even if someone doesn't have one, I imagine most of those who make up RRT's primary demographics likely at least have access to one through a friend or family member.

Not to mention the previously discussed concerns with time zones, potential manpower drains, etc, etc, etc.

[rosco60559]

I have thought about calling, however this us their forums right? Allegedly they check these forums, correct? So why can't they take the few minutes to post here or to the kickstarter page and tell us what the plan/procedure is? Even tried the Facebook page where they cut and paste updates, but still nothing on this simple question.

We can all call then post our findings but if it doesn't come from the powers that be it is NOT an official response.

[rosco60559]

nightfactory,
I guess I have this thing expectations when it comes to a company claiming to be professional. after dealing with other companies such as catalyst(the guys taking care of battletech and shadowrun) I guess myself and many of their other customers/fans are spoiled rotten, they answer questions. you can even use that god awful internet thing that palladium seems to be so scared of to contact them.

[Forar]

Which makes it an expected pattern. It shouldn't surprise anyone if they continue to follow those patterns, however disappointing they may be.

However, when fans and backers (and backers who are fans and vice versa) take the time to comment (here, on Facebook, in emails, in phone calls, at conventions, in the KS comments, etc, etc, etc) about manners in which they could improve, ones empathy as a semi/former fan wanes pretty quickly.

History is an explanation. It's not an excuse.

[Forar]

History is an explanation. It's not an excuse.

I'm confused as to how you are using the word "excuse" in conjunction with the word "history".

"Previous behaviour" then.

Their issues/shortcomings/whatevers with communications, deadlines and whatnot are a good reason to not be surprised when they occur again. They do not excuse repeated failure to learn from past mistakes.

In some ways, it make those repeated mistakes worse.

[Seto Kaiba]

"Previous behaviour" then.

Their issues/shortcomings/whatevers with communications, deadlines and whatnot are a good reason to not be surprised when they occur again. They do not excuse repeated failure to learn from past mistakes.

In some ways, it make those repeated mistakes worse.

Respectfully... aren't many of the upset backers equally guilty of having failed to learn from past mistakes, since they bought into this as apparently believed that it would somehow be different from how things are invariably done at Palladium? Especially since the backers CONTINUE to celebrate targets that they ought to know from long experience will not be met.

I doubt you, or anyone else, will receive any kind of official answer to the question of what will be done in the event of miscasts or other products defects like shipment damage or misfilled orders. Being a smallish company, they'll no doubt hope that things will go perfectly, and when they inevitably don't they'll handle things on a case-by-case basis and hope for the best. Their logistics suck, but I've yet to encounter the mythological small business whose logistics don't suck on some level... but hey, if people DIDN'T screw up the logistics, I'd lose a big chunk of my business.

[Forar]

The continuing stance of "look, they suck, they've sucked for decades, expecting them to stop sucking is dumb, just embrace the suckage" is truly inspiring.

"With friends like these..."

[Seto Kaiba]

The continuing stance of "look, they suck, they've sucked for decades, expecting them to stop sucking is dumb, just embrace the suckage" is truly inspiring.

What's that old saying?

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


Seriously though, boys and girls, if Palladium really wants to straighten this nonsense out I can have some business logistics experts out to them with about two weeks notice... for a price. I just don't think they'd like what we'll have to say after the dust settles.

Still, as their staff is merely misguided rather than openly malicious... I'm sure they WILL try to reach an accommodation with anyone who does encounter difficulty with the RRT products. It'll probably just be done on a case-by-case basis instead of having a publicly available process for doing it. (Even veteran companies like Games Workshop tend to keep their process for replacing defective goods on the down-low, because it would show a lack of confidence in their product if they threw up a prominent link to an online form or something to report issues... that'd imply that there are so many issues such a thing is the only way to properly deal with it.)

[Morgan Vening]

With all due respect, Forar, you're pissing in the wind. All this talk of "That doesn't excuse them!" is meaningless. Nobody is particularly happy that RRT has been delayed, delayed, delayed, nor that KS made big promises that he couldn't keep. We get that. But this is how it is. This is how Palladium operates and has always operated. Most people who are familar with the company even slightly (or bothered to do any research before investing) know this.

You're making an argument on perception. You're assumption appears to be that everyone backing this project, knew not only that PB were terrible at pretty much everything specified, but also that they were the primary on the project. Which, during the Kickstarter, was NOT the perception I had.

Some have argued that PB and Ninja Division are equal partners in this project. Nothing I've seen indicates that's accurate. Ninja Division's reluctance to speak publicly on the project until a couple of months ago, their notable absence from Kickstarter communication, and their reluctance to promote or advertise this in any meaningful way (nothing at Adepticon, one small unmarked display apparently at Denver ComicCon), and there appearing to be no mention of it at all on their own website, isn't definitive proof, but it's still fairly compelling.

But during the Kickstarter, it was the other way around. Palladium commentary was limited at best, and the Ninja Division staff was fairly prolific, interesting, engaged and communicative. Then May 21st, 10pm hit, and the switch got flipped, Palladium took over communication, and became almost immediately sporadic, vague and distant. A trend that's continued to this day. Instead of it looking like PB was only involved in licensing and logistics, it was obvious in a way that wasn't spelled out during the campaign, that they were (or had been) planning on being a much bigger role.

Did I assume too much? Probably. Were the "warning signs" there? Possibly. Was it an unreasonable assumption I made? I don't think so. But to have people say "You should have done your research!", when I did more than just a cursory look, and the information at the time was not crystal clear, comes across as patronizing. I backed a Kickstarter being run by an unknown with no real reputation (good or bad), with a seemingly clear structure, and an engaged support staff. Instead I got Palladium.

Granted, Ninja Division at the time had announced a significant (six month) delay to their Relic Knights Kickstarter, but I saw that as actually being a good thing. That if things did go pear-shaped, we'ld be kept informed. Instead, we've been kept ignorant. Something that others here seem to take delight in pointing out. "You don't KNOW that's what's happening! You don't KNOW what the reasons for the delays are!". Yeah, because we aren't told crap. Speaking only for myself, I'd have had no problem with the current level of delays, or even further ones (some speculated on March 2015, and I didn't gnash my teeth at the thought), if they'd been up front, and engaged with the backers. I've also got separate issues with the parts count, but that's not the issue being discussed.

[Seto Kaiba]

Did I assume too much? Probably. Were the "warning signs" there? Possibly. Was it an unreasonable assumption I made? I don't think so.

If you made any assumption at all and ignored warning signs, then one may deduce that you did make an unreasonable assumption. Caveat Emptor.

Were warnings ignored? Absolutely... the first, and most important warning was the first word of the title: Robotech. In going-on thirty years of trying, nobody has been able to wrestle a success out of that franchise on any front. Its owners are notorious for delivering poor-quality work, and often delivering that work years late or completely failing to deliver. Many people on here have argued that those same failings are often exhibited by Palladium as well, and it was their name on Kickstarter... which should, for Palladium fans who take that view (which includes many backers), have been the second major warning sign. There are more, but at this point I'm flogging the pallet of dog food and jello that was a dead horse months ago.


Still, while they might not be good about delivering on time and they might talk a bigger game than they can bring... these people are not comically evil or too big to care. If there are problems with the actual minis when the Kickstarter products come out, they'll do what they can to make it right. They're unlikely to post a proceedure for demanding exchanges, for the public image-related reasons I outlined previously... though I think everyone here is in agreement that that ship has sailed and there's no way they could make things worse.