Robotech® RPG Tactics Ur pledged is...

[ZINO]

post if made a pledged for Robotech® RPG Tactics how much or did not pledged Robotech® RPG Tactics

[ZINO]

i went for the 260 and U ??
SHOWDOWN PLEDGE LEVEL INCLUDES:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrp ... -tacticstm
2x Full color, 90+ page, softcover rulebook
48 Battle Dice
80 color game cards (unit cards, etc)
2x Rick Hunter SE Veritechs
12x VF-1A Veritech Valkyries (in Fighter, Guardian, and Battloid modes)
2x VF-1J "Officer" in all three modes
4x Destroids (includes parts to make them Tomahawks, Defenders, or one of each)
36x Regult Zentraedi Battlepods
2x Glaug Officer's Battlepod
1/285th scale, high quality, multi-pose plastic game pieces.
2x All Unlocked Stretch Goals

[ZINO]

HOLY COW!!!
Launched: Apr 18, 2013
just today!!!
Backers 749
SO far $113,733
pledged of $70,000 goal
32 days to go

[Grand Paladin]

I pledged $70. Looking forward to seeing what comes next!

[drewkitty ~..~]

The "will wait" should read "will wait to just buy it when it comes out"

[SRoss]

I pledged $140.00 but being Canadian it comes to $170.00.

[ZINO]

The "will wait" should read "will wait to just buy it when it comes out"

WILL wait
IMHO is better there are many reasons why wait

[drewkitty ~..~]

The "will wait" should read "will wait to just buy it when it comes out"

WILL wait
IMHO is better there are many reasons why wait

To not spend money on something that does not "Happen".

[Alpha 11]

We are double what they wanted from the beginning.

[jaymz]

I did not vote as I am waiting to see if I will have teh money to do so.If I do I will likely go for between 100-260

[ZINO]

This my second update on Robotech® RAG Tactics™
we reach i think the highest level 150,000 and pass it


978 Backers
$150,503 pledged of $70,000 goal
31 days to go
about 10:29 PM eastern standard time on the first day!!!!!!!!!!
i think this the highest
$150,000 STRETCH GOA
Zentraedi reinforcements inbound! Once we reach $150,000 an all new Zentraedi unit will be unlocked, that will be available as an optional Purchase Add-on for $20.

[tgunner91]

I'm in for $90. That's enough to get the base set and Rick's fighter. Great stuff! I can't wait to see the final product... but I've waited 30 years, so no rush.

[jaymz]

If i can scratch it up I will be pledging the 260. That's 80 total minis plus 2 of every stretch goal achieved. That cannot be ignored as a great value.

EDIT - and so far the free 2 x add ons from stretch goal achievements will equal 40 additional minis in total. Which will only increase if more stretch goals are reached.

[Alpha 11]

160,000 plus. I wander what the next stretch goal will be.

[jaymz]

Looks like Battlepods of some kind

[kaid]

I pledged 80 I figure as the levels get unlocked I will save some bucks to put in some more for specific things I want such as the MAC 2 and maybe some new zentradi stuff like the gnerl fighters. Really the 140 battlecry level looks like it may be one of the best deals because it looks like a lot of the minis being unlocked are getting included into that deal.

[jaymz]

the 260 will actually be a better "deal" per se.

Essentially 2 Battle Cry packs for less than twice the price and 2 sets of the included unlocked stuff will get included.

[Everyman]

I am definately liking what I am seeing so far with the figures. In at the $140 level myself but may pick up one or two add ons as well later. I hope that we will see some more variety as well down the line (Male/Female Zent Power Armor, Monster Destroid, Recon Pods, Artillery Pods, etc.).

[rtsurfer]

I chose "did not pledge" but probably should have chosen "will wait" as I'm actually waiting on better assurances than "planned" for Masters & New Gen games & minis. Hopefully, now that the Macross ks has got off to such a great start Palladium will reveal more details of their plans and timetable for the other eras. I'm glad the pre-order, I mean kickstarter, is doing so well and wouldn't be surprised if it eventually reached a broader retail market. The $80 starter set seems like a good deal, not so sure about the add-ons and hope they go down in price once it starts mass production. The latest stretch reward does suggest better pricing for the extras with more volume of pledges/sales.

Does "4x VF-1A Veritech Valkyries (in Fighter, Guardian, and Battloid modes)" mean 4 VFs with each in one of the three modes or 12 VFs with 4 in each mode?

[Seto Kaiba]

Did not pledge, and have no intention of pledging at any point in the future. If the game's prospects are so poor that the only way to fund it is a Kickstarter, the game will almost certainly not last. I'm rather picky about what I devote shelf space to, and when I could count on one hand the number of Robotech fans in this state, all the game's models would be usable for is display pieces. They aren't bad sculpts by any means, but I think my Macross 1:250 scale stuff would win out for shelf space in the end on the basis of quality.

[Colonel Wolfe]

If the game's prospects are so poor that the only way to fund it is a Kickstarter, the game will almost certainly not last.

IDK, plenty of game companies are follwing the KS model for larger projects... with almost 1400 backers and nearly a Quarter Million in the pledges... thsi KS has almost as much money as the Shadow Chronicles movie budget... Think about that....

[ZINO]

If the game's prospects are so poor that the only way to fund it is a Kickstarter, the game will almost certainly not last.

IDK, plenty of game companies are follwing the KS model for larger projects... with almost 1400 backers and nearly a Quarter Million in the pledges... thsi KS has almost as much money as the Shadow Chronicles movie budget... Think about that....

ouch

[Seto Kaiba]

If the game's prospects are so poor that the only way to fund it is a Kickstarter, the game will almost certainly not last.

IDK, plenty of game companies are follwing the KS model for larger projects... with almost 1400 backers and nearly a Quarter Million in the pledges... thsi KS has almost as much money as the Shadow Chronicles movie budget... Think about that....

You've got a funny definition of "almost"... that's only a bit over 20% of RTSC's embarrassingly tiny budget.

Seriously though, a handful of people pledging hundreds of dollars each for relatively little return doesn't mean the game's a sustainable prospect. People have a hard enough time finding enough people locally to run a session of the RPG. You can't use the internet as a workaround for a tabletop game the way you can for the RPG. 1,364 people might be willing to throw their money at the Macross Saga, since it's the most popular, beloved, and iconic of the three... but will they dig as deeply into their wallets for its unloved cousin the Masters Saga? No, they won't.

Hell, at an average contribution of $160 for the starter set, that's a full $50 more expensive than getting into WH40K...

EDIT: Actually, that's $60 more than the two-player WH40k starter set... yowch.

[jaymz]

Honestly I am not completely sure if the next set of game pieces (masters) is going to also be a K-S or if only this one is to establish the capital to get off the ground and rolling...

[Alpha 11]

Bump mine up to $205 so I can get the prints, thinking of adding at lest another $20 so I get the Sparten pack.

[rtsurfer]

With the $80 starter set, there's not a lot but enough to try it out with some friends or fellow gamers, one on one in a two player game. Quite a few people seem to be getting the larger set and double set plus extras but I'm guessing they are confident in finding some players to regularly game with, or they want a larger combat scene on display and either is their choice.

It's a strong start for the game as this ks is essentially a pre-order and that could be the leverage to convince gaming and similar stores to carry at least a couple of starter sets and some expansions. IINM Palladium has a plan to get the game into a broader retail market, where I'm sure it would catch the attention of former Robotech fans, nostalgic viewers, and similar mecha enthusiasts. Personally I think the game has a lot of potential both for gaming and with collectors.

Palladium hasn't detailed how they intend to expand the game to Robotech Masters and beyond, if they proceed as planned. I expect the game to perform well and just hope they don't try expanding the Macross game to the point that it starts eroding their customer base before giving Masters a chance. Realistically Masters will never live up to Macross, none of the other conflicts will, but I suspect there are enough fans & gamers who will want Masters era mecha to collect, play out that Robotech war, and possibly for their own personal versions of the Pre-Macross Empire, Uprisings & Sentinels conflicts/campaigns.

[Alpha 11]

Now over 1/4 a million!

[ZINO]

With the $80 starter set, there's not a lot but enough to try it out with some friends or fellow gamers, one on one in a two player game. Quite a few people seem to be getting the larger set and double set plus extras but I'm guessing they are confident in finding some players to regularly game with, or they want a larger combat scene on display and either is their choice.

It's a strong start for the game as this ks is essentially a pre-order and that could be the leverage to convince gaming and similar stores to carry at least a couple of starter sets and some expansions. IINM Palladium has a plan to get the game into a broader retail market, where I'm sure it would catch the attention of former Robotech fans, nostalgic viewers, and similar mecha enthusiasts. Personally I think the game has a lot of potential both for gaming and with collectors.

Palladium hasn't detailed how they intend to expand the game to Robotech Masters and beyond, if they proceed as planned. I expect the game to perform well and just hope they don't try expanding the Macross game to the point that it starts eroding their customer base before giving Masters a chance. Realistically Masters will never live up to Macross, none of the other conflicts will, but I suspect there are enough fans & gamers who will want Masters era mecha to collect, play out that Robotech war, and possibly for their own personal versions of the Pre-Macross Empire, Uprisings & Sentinels conflicts/campaigns.

if that the case then next should or could be Invid wars and/or R.T.S.C

[glitterboy2098]

count me as one who wants a master's era in the same scale. i want Bioroids.
Bioroids and Logans.

and hopefully, the other era's will use the same game rules.. so we can mix and match as we want.

[ZINO]

well i add 40 dollars more now i am at 300 $

[Alpha 11]

count me as one who wants a master's era in the same scale. i want Bioroids.
Bioroids and Logans.

and hopefully, the other era's will use the same game rules.. so we can mix and match as we want.

I'm almost positive they will have the rules. And I really do hope also were get Bioroids and Logans, AND hover tanks, and beyond.

[ZINO]

count me as one who wants a master's era in the same scale. i want Bioroids.
Bioroids and Logans.

and hopefully, the other era's will use the same game rules.. so we can mix and match as we want.

I'm almost positive they will have the rules. And I really do hope also were get Bioroids and Logans, AND hover tanks, and beyond.

i hope they U.E.G. air fighters too

[ZINO]

$240,908
sorry
but where the mac II and Zentraedi Female Power Armor (FPA) and Zentraedi Male Power Armor (MPA) ??
or add earth jet fighters too
$240,908 we should have them by now just an idea IHMO

[jaymz]

ZINO I wouldn't get your hopes up of getting any conventional fighters or vehicles.

[ZINO]

ZINO I wouldn't get your hopes up of getting any conventional fighters or vehicles.

i know your right but we can hope
this feel to good to be ture

1,500 Backers
$241,048 pledged of $70,000 goal
30 days to go

[glitterboy2098]

ZINO I wouldn't get your hopes up of getting any conventional fighters or vehicles.

not for some time anyway. mecha being what tends to attract people, vehicles won't likely show up until all the official mecha are available.

you can buy aircraft and tanks from companies like GHQ for macross era games (all the real world stuff that would be available anyway), while companies like Ground Zero Games have mini's based on shows like Gall force, which could easily be used for masters/new gen games.

though i imagine you'll have to make up your own rules for non-mecha..

[ZINO]

i wonder if KS saw this coming ???
1,500 Backers
$241,048 pledged of $70,000 goal
and 30 days to go

[jaymz]

ZINO I wouldn't get your hopes up of getting any conventional fighters or vehicles.

not for some time anyway. mecha being what tends to attract people, vehicles won't likely show up until all the official mecha are available.

you can buy aircraft and tanks from companies like GHQ for macross era games (all the real world stuff that would be available anyway), while companies like Ground Zero Games have mini's based on shows like Gall force, which could easily be used for masters/new gen games.

though i imagine you'll have to make up your own rules for non-mecha..

f that stats are easily translatable....nah probably not have to do much work in the way of rules for vehicles.

[Tiree]

I really don't want the Macross Era, but I would like to have a single Hovertank, 3 Logans, Red Bioroid, 3 Invid Bioroids on sleds, a Bioroid carrier. Then all 4 different Alpha's with Beta's, 3 of each Cyclone (super included). Armored Scout, Trooper, Pincer, and RCB

[tgunner91]

And with Skull-1 on the horizon I've decided to up my pledge! LOL! Now I'm at Battle Cry. So much for my painting commission money going into 15mm toys!

[tgunner91]

Seriously though, a handful of people pledging hundreds of dollars each for relatively little return doesn't mean the game's a sustainable prospect. People have a hard enough time finding enough people locally to run a session of the RPG. You can't use the internet as a workaround for a tabletop game the way you can for the RPG. 1,364 people might be willing to throw their money at the Macross Saga, since it's the most popular, beloved, and iconic of the three... but will they dig as deeply into their wallets for its unloved cousin the Masters Saga? No, they won't.

Maybe, but there's a big monkey wrench in your thinking. I don't know your gaming background so I'm going to assume that you're principally a RPG player.

Anyway, there is a very large wargaming community out there. Really big actually! Check out The Miniatures Page and you'll see the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. One of the "communities" in TMP are the Battletech crowd. Battletech was/is a franchise that got its start by using Macross mecha, in fact, Google search Battletech 3025 and you'll get a sense of what I mean. This game has been around for almost 30 years and it has quite a following.. many of whom, like me, are watching this Kickstarter with a lot of interest. That's literally tens of thousands of potential players. Heck, I've been playing since 1986! And if this Kickstarter has me excited then I'm sure it has a lot of the others too!

So I think that the player base is a lot deeper than you're thinking!

Hell, at an average contribution of $160 for the starter set, that's a full $50 more expensive than getting into WH40K...

EDIT: Actually, that's $60 more than the two-player WH40k starter set... yowch.

Come on, be fair.

The starter set is available for a pledge of $80 (First Contact)(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000 ... 1366165613).

The 40K starter set is about $90-100 at full retail (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... od1700019a).

You can get if for less by hitting discount sites or Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dark-Vengeance- ... 2ec220b4ec).

But you won't get it for less than $80 and you have to deal with shipping and/or tax. So by pledging $80 you get the Robotech Tactics starter with free shipping and that is cheaper than any of GW's starters. The average that you came up with includes folks like me who love the show and really want to see the Kickstarter succeed, so we shell out more $$ than we really need to... plus we also want access to the stretch rewards! Tell me, when you buy a GW starter what stretch rewards do you get??? Zip... and you're lucky if you have a 500pt force in the box too. 500 points... how many of those games have you seen played at your local GW shop? Not too many. It's usually 1500 to 2000 points and that's $200+ and you STILL only have one smallish army.

$160 is NOT the entry cost of Robotech Tactics. Apples and oranges, boyo.

Poo-hoo the Kickstarter if you must, after all games seem to attract their share of haters, but do try to be accurate.

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe, but there's a big monkey wrench in your thinking. I don't know your gaming background so I'm going to assume that you're principally a RPG player.

Probably not the safest assumption you could've made... I'm actually principally a tabletop war-gaming player, though I've also become involved in running a Macross MUSH in the past year or so. My RPG experience is actually far and away the minority of my experience (almost exclusively Macross II and Robotech's games, with a smattering of other titles like Dark Heresy).

Anyway, there is a very large wargaming community out there. Really big actually!

Believe you me, I know... I've been a part of it since - hell - when did Codex: Dark Eldar come out? '99? Damn, I'm feeling old now.

Battletech was/is a franchise that got its start by using Macross mecha, in fact, Google search Battletech 3025 and you'll get a sense of what I mean.

Oh, I know... I'd wager I know the ins and outs of that particular SNAFU better than you. (One of my contributions to the Macross community was digging out and, where necessary, translating the court documents relating to all the messy litigation around the Macross-Robotech-Battletech copyright fiasco. It made for some truly fascinating, and, at times, truly tragic, reading.)

This game has been around for almost 30 years and it has quite a following.. many of whom, like me, are watching this Kickstarter with a lot of interest. That's literally tens of thousands of potential players. Heck, I've been playing since 1986! And if this Kickstarter has me excited then I'm sure it has a lot of the others too!

Um... maybe you've forgotten, but most Battletech/MechWarrior fans have considerable antipathy for Harmony Gold and its Robotech franchise because of the whole "unseen" thing and the repeated screwing-over of their fanbase. I wouldn't expect much support from that quarter for the "Robotech Battles" game, and the same goes for Macross fans. There aren't many gaming hobbies as ruinously expensive as miniature war-gaming, so I can't see much support from that side of things (the non-fan market). It's fairly rare for someone to want to pick up more than one tabletop game at a go... and I doubt a virtual nonentity title like Robotech would be able to draw attention away from Warhammer, Warmachine, or Battletech (depending on which is popular in any particular region).

So I think that the player base is a lot deeper than you're thinking!

No, I think, between my long experience with the tabletop war-gaming genre and my reasonable knowledge of the present and past performance of the Robotech, that I've got a pretty good read on it. In terms of the overall number of the kickstarter contributors, and the average amount contributed, we're pretty much right where I expected us to be. About 1,500 to 1,800 sets "sold", at a cost of around $120-170, right smack in the middle of Robotech's average for limited edition or special merchandise sales from the mid-2000s on. ~2,000 people worldwide might be enough to justify some of Robotech's cheapie "premium" collectables like the Masterpiece Collection (a line which counted selling about half its limited edition run limit as rousing success at the best of times), but it's not enough to sustain a miniatures game, which can't be played online the way the RPG can... and outside of SoCal, the RT fandom is VERY dispersed.

If the game survives past its sure-thing Macross sales phase and doesn't die at the Masters Saga, I might give it a look... but I'd really rather not shell out for an uncertain prospect to get lower quality versions of models I already have, just in a slightly smaller scale, for display purposes. I could count the number of my fellow Robotech fans in this area (Palladium's own backyard) on one hand.

The starter set is available for a pledge of $80 (First Contact)(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000 ... 1366165613).

The 40K starter set is about $90-100 at full retail (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... od1700019a).

The point wasn't what the bare minimum contribution was, but rather what the majority is actually paying for the starter set. The mean contribution for the Kickstarter is $160, which is a starter set with a few little extras (only a few of which are actually game-relevant)... a good deal more expensive than the WH40K $100 "Dark Vengeance" starter set.

The average that you came up with includes folks like me who love the show and really want to see the Kickstarter succeed, so we shell out more $$ than we really need to... plus we also want access to the stretch rewards! Tell me, when you buy a GW starter what stretch rewards do you get??? Zip...

Well, yes... the stretch rewards exist to convince you to pledge more for minor returns on said unproven prospect. There isn't any need for "stretch rewards" with the GW starters because those are well-established games and you could always spend the same amount you'd put towards "stretch rewards" on other models.

and you're lucky if you have a 500pt force in the box too. 500 points... how many of those games have you seen played at your local GW shop? Not too many. It's usually 1500 to 2000 points and that's $200+ and you STILL only have one smallish army.

Would it take the wind out of your sails terribly if I said I routinely see around two dozen 500pt games every other week? (I'm a "Warmaster" hobby tutor at my local game store, which is owned by a friend of mine. I help run WHFB and WH40K tutorial sessions, painting workshops, and the like.) Taking out redundancy (the need for multiple models to represent a single unit), you could put together two reasonable starter armies with what you'd spend on the "Showdown" starter kit, only ending up with more usable models for the WH40K alternative.*

Spoiler:

Comparatively, that's 41 Dark Angels space marines and 47 Chaos marines, for 88 usable minis, versus "Showdown" with 22 usable UEDF models (18 VFs, 4 destroids) and 44 Zentradi models, for 66 usable minis. Bear ye in mind, my WH40K side estimate fell short by $12 of the $260 mark. Greater variety too, that's two characters, a termie squad, a bike squad, and three tac squads for the Dark Angels, and two cultist squads, a character, a dreadnought, and three tac squads for the Chaos Marines.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Reading some of this thread.. it sounds like some want this KS to fail... even thou its nearing 400% of its goal...

[übermensch]

Hey Seto, so you aren't supporting Robotech Tactics because you think it won't be successful? But do you want it to be successful? If so, I suggest pledging for the artwork tiers if you don't fancy the minis.

[ZINO]

Reading some of this thread.. it sounds like some want this KS to fail... even thou its nearing 400% of its goal...

i hate to say this your right Colonel Wolfe
but I am sad i want it to make it
so plz let try our best all of US ,help out If you can I did my part really want to buy this for me and my kids

[glitterboy2098]

in regards to battletech fans...
i visit the bg.battletech.com forums almost as much as i do here, and the response to the robotech game seems positive there. though in general those who are investing in the kickstarter have admitted to mainly focusing on getting extra Destroid and Spartan packs, so they can pull double duty. (lots of people love the unseen.. Seto has a point that some older Btech fans still have a bit of a grudge. though it is aimed more at HG than anyone. and it tends to be more over the somewhat underhanded tactics used in some of those court cases than on the fact HG was protecting it's license. oddly, i see much more vehemence with non-Btech players.. many of whom don't bother to find out )the actual facts, and just assume FASA 'stole' the images. [FASA and HG basically got caught up in the whole bigwest/tatsunoko mess, since they each had a lisnsence from one of the japanese companies involved. FASA actually started phasing out the unseen images when the import company they got theirs through folded.. well before the HG lawsuits. one reason the lawsuits are a bit of a sore spot was HG and affiliated toy company using the unseen as evidence FASA couldn't make anything orignal when FASA took HG to court over some of the Exosquad stuff that was too close to FASA's clan mechs and battlearmor stuff.])

even those battletech fans who aren't investing in the kickstarter (those are a fairly low % right now.. though many say they are waiting to see how things go and what stretch goals show up) seem to be hoping it will go well. and not all of them just want mini's for the unseen. plenty of people got into battletech because they were robotech fans and went looking for a mecha game.

[Seto Kaiba]

Reading some of this thread.. it sounds like some want this KS to fail... even thou its nearing 400% of its goal...

Really? I don't see anything like that here. It's possible you may have misunderstood certain things, or are maybe making some deliberate distortions of certain things. I'm not sure which, but I won't bother to guess as the following may clarify any areas of uncertainty.

Hey Seto, so you aren't supporting Robotech Tactics because you think it won't be successful? But do you want it to be successful? If so, I suggest pledging for the artwork tiers if you don't fancy the minis.

More or less. I opted not to support the Robotech Tactics kickstarter because my long experience with Robotech and miniature war-gaming is pointing me to an outcome where the game could be called a success (by Harmony Gold standards) as a collectable, but will not catch on sufficiently to be viable for its intended purpose. Kind of like how many RT fans bought the RPG without any intention of ever running a game, simply as a collectable or reference guide to the series. The Robotech fanbase out my way is very VERY sparse, so I'd have to relegate the miniatures to display item status if I'd bought in... and I've already got a rather larger and higher-quality set of Macross miniatures in a similar scale (1/250).

As far as whether I want it to be successful? Robotech tends to have rather different standards for "successful" than the rest of the industry. I'd like to see Palladium doing well for itself, they've been good to me in the past, but I'd really be happier seeing them devote their attention to the RPG (maybe a nice on-time release for once, boys?) than spending their time building hype for a miniatures game that may never catch on... particularly as the RPG is pretty much the ONLY thing Robotech being released at reasonable intervals.

Would I pledge for the art? No. Well, maybe for that one with the Legioss and TLEAD on it. I didn't thrill to the art of the old RT books. Put up poster-size prints of the 2e core book and Macross Saga covers and I'd certainly think long and hard about it. They're reasonably well-done, and since they preserved the original markings on the VF-1 I could easily slip that one into my Macross poster collection without anyone being the wiser.

[...]though in general those who are investing in the kickstarter have admitted to mainly focusing on getting extra Destroid and Spartan packs, so they can pull double duty.

Yep, saw that coming about a light year off...

(lots of people love the unseen.. Seto has a point that some older Btech fans still have a bit of a grudge. though it is aimed more at HG than anyone. and it tends to be more over the somewhat underhanded tactics used in some of those court cases than on the fact HG was protecting it's license. [...]

Er... yes and no. There honestly weren't any underhanded tactics used in the Harmony Gold v. FASA thing, that was just some understandable confusion over licensing. It tends to get painted as underhanded by BTech fans because FASA gave up a lot (the unseen) when they saw they couldn't win and opted to settle out of court.

oddly, i see much more vehemence with non-Btech players.. many of whom don't bother to find out )the actual facts, and just assume FASA 'stole' the images. [FASA and HG basically got caught up in the whole bigwest/tatsunoko mess, since they each had a lisnsence from one of the japanese companies involved.

Um... probably not the best choice of words you could've made, as your information is wrong too. HG's tiff with FASA started fully 14 years before the Big West v. Tatsunoko thing was initiated by Harmony Gold (in 1985, according to case background for the suit as cited in the district court records) and concluded in 1996... 3-4 years before Harmony Gold's actions kicked off the brief legal brouhaha over Macross's ownership in Japan. Big West v. Tatsunoko had nothing to do with the BTech situation. (FASA did not, in actual fact, have a license from either party. Their statements in court indicate they got the art they used from Twentieth Century Imports, a model kit distributor who they alleged, but could not prove, got rights to that art from Tatsunoko, whom Harmony Gold DID have a license from. It's messy, to say the least.)

[glitterboy2098]

(lots of people love the unseen.. Seto has a point that some older Btech fans still have a bit of a grudge. though it is aimed more at HG than anyone. and it tends to be more over the somewhat underhanded tactics used in some of those court cases than on the fact HG was protecting it's license. [...]

Er... yes and no. There honestly weren't any underhanded tactics used in the Harmony Gold v. FASA thing, that was just some understandable confusion over licensing. It tends to get painted as underhanded by BTech fans because FASA gave up a lot (the unseen) when they saw they couldn't win and opted to settle out of court.

actually, there was some underhanded tactics. the lawsuit over the unseen was a actually a countersuit filed after the FASA filed a copyright infringement over parts of the exosquad setting.. originally over an as yet unreleased toy which copied the appearance of the battletech madcat, but FASA (rather stupidly) expanded things to include the superficial similarities between the badguys of exosquad with the Clans of battletech.. one reason the lawsuit didn't work out, though the problematic toy did never get released.
during that lawsuit HG used the unseen as evidence that FASA didn't make original material..
during both lawsuits HG's press releases implied that they were facing a company which was using macross artwork illegally, though they didn't outright say it.
what HG was doing was perfectly legal, it was still underhanded in that they were using half truths in what amounted to an unofficial smear campaign.

oddly, i see much more vehemence with non-Btech players.. many of whom don't bother to find out )the actual facts, and just assume FASA 'stole' the images. [FASA and HG basically got caught up in the whole bigwest/tatsunoko mess, since they each had a lisnsence from one of the japanese companies involved.

Um... probably not the best choice of words you could've made, as your information is wrong too. HG's tiff with FASA started fully 14 years before the Big West v. Tatsunoko thing was initiated by Harmony Gold (in 1985, according to case background for the suit as cited in the district court records) and concluded in 1996... 3-4 years before Harmony Gold's actions kicked off the brief legal brouhaha over Macross's ownership in Japan. Big West v. Tatsunoko had nothing to do with the BTech situation. (FASA did not, in actual fact, have a license from either party. Their statements in court indicate they got the art they used from Twentieth Century Imports, a model kit distributor who they alleged, but could not prove, got rights to that art from Tatsunoko, whom Harmony Gold DID have a license from. It's messy, to say the least.)

'the mess' was the whole split ownership thing itself. that it hadn't become a legal issue yet in japan doesn't make two companies claiming the right to sell artwork use rights any less of a mess.

and FASA did have a license from 20th century imports and through them the legal owners of the three shows they used art from.. even HG's had admitted as much when battletech came out (there had been C&D's sent, and the two companies legal teams had met over it). by the time of the HG v FASA cases though 20th century imports had closed it doors, and their records were not available. which is the only reason HG could claim it was an invalid license.

[Seto Kaiba]

Since we're getting off-topic, I'll reply via PM. (If anyone wants a copy or to be added to that discussion, feel free to shoot me a PM or other request.)

[ZINO]

Since we're getting off-topic, I'll reply via PM. (If anyone wants a copy or to be added to that discussion, feel free to shoot me a PM or other request.)

thnak you Seto Kaiba