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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 am
  

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Hero

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they admit Wave 2 isn't going to happen doesn't that mean they have to start issuing refunds for failing to deliver backer rewards?


Ehhhh, not really.

Yes, the Kickstarter Terms of Use for Creators state that said Creators are expected to deliver on their project and make good on whatever rewards have been offered to Backers. Failing that, they're supposed to try to achieve a compromise or otherwise 'make good' on what they missed or fell short of. And failing that, they're supposed to issue refunds.

But it's not a hard legal binding. It might serve well if someone wanted to take the Creator to court, but most backers would likely find themselves paying a lawyer an order of magnitude more than they contributed just in the hopes of getting back their contribute plus legal fees. If that failed to occur, they'd just be throwing hundreds or thousands of dollars away trying to recoup (on average) about $300. And that's for local folks.

I'm not a lawyer, and have been lucky enough to keep out of litigation, but it seems like if it was that easy than we'd have seen more failed projects dragged through the courts.

There have been a few cases that got that far, but they're in the vast minority.

That said, if they are in fact sitting on the six figure sum that would be necessary to even have a remote chance of actually producing and shipping wave 2, they could in theory offer some portion of a refund to backers based on what is still owed versus what was delivered. This kind of pro-rated amount could stretch those dollars fairly far.

But that assumes they're still sitting on at least 1/3 of the funds.

They have stated in the past that the money was not wasted (in response to accusations of being out of funding, which is not what was asked/accused), but they've never (that I've seen) stated that they still have the funds available.

Ethically, it would be the right thing to do to offer at least partial refunds as finances permitted. Based on their hard stance of 'no refunds for anyone' that they've held for over 3 years, I don't see them doing it.

Bluntly, if there's a statute of limitations involved, I'd be surprised if it hadn't occurred to them to just run out the clock. There are a bunch of big tough Internet Lawyers who make declarations about whether this would fall under Federal Mail Fraud or Michigan Law or whatever, but I'm not ponying up a decent lawyer's fees to find out the actual answer.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:10 am
  

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I'm sure the funds that didn't pay for Wave 1 were used to settle old debts/pay for books to be printed (a mix of both, in my guess) since that would meet Kevin's claim (in his mind, anyway) that it "wasn't wasted" and he expected he would be able to pay for development and manufacturing of Wave 2 with the sales of Wave 1 and the money never came. Now they're in a vicious cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul (which started some time ago, is my guess), using the money from Robotech to keep the company afloat for the past half decade.

Really, the Kickstarter was a way to keep Palladium going when it should have otherwise failed, in my opinion.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:06 am
  

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Seto, you are absolutely spot on there. Palladium have found themselves between a rock and a hard place.

If funds are so tight that they cannot Wave 2 at all then they will by the terms of kickstarter have to offer the backers refunds - this would also be extremely toxic as to what they dtermine to be a suitable level of that refund. Holding on and stalling in the hope that costs/expenditure will somehow turn in their favour is also, probably more likley, to be their damnation

Looking again at the update did it tell us anything, well i think it did in a roundabout way. It showed that, despite Kevin's protestations to the contrary, that Palladium are not straining every sinew to get this done. To the contrary it does seem to be something they might drop in and check, make a call or two every fortnight or so and then go back to writing books.

I am reasonabke but it is been four years and they still have not decided on the manufacturing process. We spent most of last year being told they were asking for quotes, that eventually resulted in nothing. Apart from a couple of pictures we have seen nothing of the remaining models. Maybe Forar can remind usof how long ago Wayne promised us the complete ststus breakdown ofevery outstanding model. The conventional rules were announced then nothing happenned, despite credible drafts being supplied online by Mike and Jaymz.

What about the resins, they have not been mentioned in any PBWU or Kickstarter update in years. Likewise, if there was one model I would love to show off, even if prouction was a while away , it would be the Monster but nothing has been seen apart from those ND prototypes at the start of the campaign.

The list could be longer but in my opinion is a strong indicator that there is no overall strategy to complete this, but rather it is hand to mouth , with a lot of things simply not being followed through.

I know it might well get peoples backs up but as Forar says it would be interesting and informative to know what actions palladium had taken andwhy these did not pan out the way they expected. If nothing else it is evidence that they are working hard to fulfil their obligations and possibly give us a better understanding of the issues they are facing.

It sadly has become the norm here for Palladium to put up the shutters and simply think by not communicating that everyone will be okay with it. Comments here, on the Kickstarter and other forums such as Dakka, show a deep disatifaction about how things are going ( that is putting it mildly) and should serve as true reality check for all concerned. Maybe Kevin and Wayne et al, need to get out from the bubble they are insulating thenselves in and see what the rest of us think of their performance so far?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:17 am
  

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:36 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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wilycoyote wrote:
I am reasonabke but it is been four years and they still have not decided on the manufacturing process. We spent most of last year being told they were asking for quotes, that eventually resulted in nothing. Apart from a couple of pictures we have seen nothing of the remaining models. Maybe Forar can remind usof how long ago Wayne promised us the complete ststus breakdown ofevery outstanding model. The conventional rules were announced then nothing happenned, despite credible drafts being supplied online by Mike and Jaymz.

What about the resins, they have not been mentioned in any PBWU or Kickstarter update in years. Likewise, if there was one model I would love to show off, even if prouction was a while away , it would be the Monster but nothing has been seen apart from those ND prototypes at the start of the campaign.

Complete Status Breakdown, July 10th 2015, second Para. 1 year, 6 months, 27 days. Conventional Forces are about the same timeframe (first announced June 7th, the schedule pushed back a couple times with it being "soon", then quietly abandoned about September 2015).

You're kinda wrong on the Resin. In that it's been less than a year since they showed the SDF-1 that they had available at Adepticon (along with the 3D Prints of the YF-4 and AValk).

I did find it weird that the one thing that PB promised, and have managed to accomplish in the last year and a half, hasn't really been mentioned. As far as I can tell, the rollout of the Wave 2 cards on DTRPG is complete. They announced when it started (it was the previous KSU), but it was a slow rollout of about two cards a day over several months. They finished, and I think that warranted an announcement of sorts.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 am
  

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Forar wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they admit Wave 2 isn't going to happen doesn't that mean they have to start issuing refunds for failing to deliver backer rewards?

Yes, the Kickstarter Terms of Use for Creators state that said Creators are expected to deliver on their project and make good on whatever rewards have been offered to Backers. Failing that, they're supposed to try to achieve a compromise or otherwise 'make good' on what they missed or fell short of. And failing that, they're supposed to issue refunds.

But it's not a hard legal binding. It might serve well if someone wanted to take the Creator to court, but most backers would likely find themselves paying a lawyer an order of magnitude more than they contributed just in the hopes of getting back their contribute plus legal fees. If that failed to occur, they'd just be throwing hundreds or thousands of dollars away trying to recoup (on average) about $300. And that's for local folks.

I'm not a lawyer, and have been lucky enough to keep out of litigation, but it seems like if it was that easy than we'd have seen more failed projects dragged through the courts. [...]

That's a shame, since it seems like the only way you guys are going to get a straight answer out of Palladium's staff is to have someone lawyer up and at least draft a formal nasty letter of the "truth or consequences" variety. Whatever is going on with the Kickstarter, Palladium Books seems so determined to keep it under wraps that it seems like the only way they'll ever come clean is under threat of legal action or when someone subpoenas their records.

Problem is, the best way to do that would be to have a Michigan-based backer do it... good luck finding a volunteer. I didn't back the game myself, since I predicted (correctly as it turned out) that it was destined to end badly for everyone concerned.





wilycoyote wrote:
Seto, you are absolutely spot on there. Palladium have found themselves between a rock and a hard place.

If funds are so tight that they cannot Wave 2 at all then they will by the terms of kickstarter have to offer the backers refunds - this would also be extremely toxic as to what they dtermine to be a suitable level of that refund. Holding on and stalling in the hope that costs/expenditure will somehow turn in their favour is also, probably more likley, to be their damnation

Oh, undoubtedly... whatever Palladium is trying to hide with these non-updates cannot be pretty, and the longer they make the backers wait for the reveal the uglier the reaction is going to be.

I used to make my living on process improvement and helping companies avoid the kind of public relations nightmare Palladium has turned RRT into... so I'm stuck looking at this with a professional's eyes and wondering what exactly is going on behind the scenes. The longer this drags on, the more I'm led to think that Palladium didn't account for taxes and fees on the Kickstarter balance when it was setting rewards levels and stretch goals, and once Uncle Sam and Kickstarter took their cut. The way they pushed product to retail early makes it look like the cash didn't stretch as far as they'd thought it would, and are at a loss to find the scratch to finish Wave 2 properly.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:07 am
  

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vitae_drinker wrote:
I'm sure the funds that didn't pay for Wave 1 were used to settle old debts/pay for books to be printed (a mix of both, in my guess) since that would meet Kevin's claim (in his mind, anyway) that it "wasn't wasted" and he expected he would be able to pay for development and manufacturing of Wave 2 with the sales of Wave 1 and the money never came. Now they're in a vicious cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul (which started some time ago, is my guess), using the money from Robotech to keep the company afloat for the past half decade.

Really, the Kickstarter was a way to keep Palladium going when it should have otherwise failed, in my opinion.


IIRR, they have outright said that hasn't happen. So they are either lying about that or not.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:05 pm
  

Wanderer

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Alpha 11 wrote:
vitae_drinker wrote:
I'm sure the funds that didn't pay for Wave 1 were used to settle old debts/pay for books to be printed (a mix of both, in my guess) since that would meet Kevin's claim (in his mind, anyway) that it "wasn't wasted" and he expected he would be able to pay for development and manufacturing of Wave 2 with the sales of Wave 1 and the money never came. Now they're in a vicious cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul (which started some time ago, is my guess), using the money from Robotech to keep the company afloat for the past half decade.

Really, the Kickstarter was a way to keep Palladium going when it should have otherwise failed, in my opinion.


IIRR, they have outright said that hasn't happen. So they are either lying about that or not.


The only statement I recall seeing was that they "hadn't wasted" the money. But who determines that? Kevin. So if you have some other info regarding how they spent the money, I would love to see it.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:23 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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EDIT: Removed at poster's request.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:48 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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vitae_drinker wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
IIRR, they have outright said that hasn't happen. So they are either lying about that or not.

The only statement I recall seeing was that they "hadn't wasted" the money. But who determines that? Kevin. So if you have some other info regarding how they spent the money, I would love to see it.

The best reference I could find was Update 186, August 26th, 2015.

"Despite what some have suggested, I want you to know there has not been any misappropriation of the funds raised by the Kickstarter, nor any wrongdoing of any kind. Not by me or anyone at Palladium Books. There is absolutely NO merit for such conjecture or inferences. If there were ever any type of investigation, Palladium has accurate records, receipts, correspondences and documentation for every expense and transaction we’ve made regarding Robotech® RPG Tactics™. I have not spent the money on a new car or boat, there is no new house, no purchase of stocks and bonds, no salary raise, no luxury vacation (heck, no vacation at all), no parties, or any misuse of Kickstarter money whatsoever. We are all hardworking people dedicated to our fan base."

He doesn't explicitly say in that Update one way or the other if he considers consolidated revenue, excessive retail purchase, or paying down debt, counts as misuse or not. I'd like to think he wouldn't, but the lack of clarity does lead some to that conclusion (especially as those were the specific questions being asked, not about boats). There was some mention about the NG Crowdsourcing that money in excess of what was necessary could be used for that, but I haven't found any references to that for THIS Kickstarter.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:44 am
  

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Warning: For trolling

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Paranoia is BAD.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:44 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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I beli eve the funds were used for RTT, but the false starts and the total under estimate of shipping costs have simply drained a lot of those monies for m the kitty. Then of course in general costs over the following years have continued to rise and given this was fixed income unless Palladium themselves are going to put more monies in.....well you can see the direction I am going down.

Anwyway the latest PBWU was a bust, with no RTT news. However it is not all glomm, the Rifts Boardgame continues to be pushed and is going to be a wonderful product. Shame that something not being produced by Palladium gets more verbiage thatn this heavily funded, delayed project. I my opinion it shows kevin's heart has never truly been in thism, but always will be with anything Rifts related


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:30 am
  

Wanderer

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Not sure how accurate statements are trolling, but nonetheless...

My point stands. Without evidence to back up the claims made, you must remain skeptical. I stand by my assertion that monies were spent and none remain from the initial kickstarter. If they do, it would be easy enough for K.S. to screen-shot the bank account balance for the set aside funds and quiet all the questions by showing the funds remaining for producing Wave 2.

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Paranoia is BAD.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:03 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Picking up on where we left off, I would point people at an excellent post by Forar over on the Dakka Dakka forums.

In a nutshell he simply takes the KS updates from the end of Wave One production and reviews them. Seen together, they paint a fairly damning picture of the repeteive and frankly now lame excuses put out by Palladium in the following two plus years - it is also worth noting 23 updates in 2015 and only 6 in 2016).

Essentially every update has the same three components
1. We are working to get the Wave 2 product tio you our backers by the end of - insert year
2. We are looking to reduce parts counts to make these the best miniatures ever
3. We are waiting on quotes from various manufacturers, but are at the baclk of the queue and still waiting

Round these off with the annual issue of the Chinese New Year and you could almost create an application to auto write what is being said.

At this point why can Palladium not supply an update on the status of every model still outstanding - remember Wayne promising this very same thing over 600 days ago? At this point we would have to presume that Palladium have commissioned 3d prints/renders of all game pieces , or otherwise what are they actually showing to manufacturers when requesting quotes - even I would not believe they expect someone to design and then produce them on their behalf after all this time.

Without going into hard detail , why can Kevin or anyone at Palladium not outline what the options they are looking at? Do they need to consider softer plastics, go for preassembled pieces or what are the advantages of the existing design? It shares something with backers already starved of any real information - especially given when scale was being considered the same silent people waxed lyrical about it, when they knoew it would not effect the outcome of Wave 2.

It is two years or so, since Kevin said he wanted to open up a more open discussion with the KS community and sadly in that time he appears to have retreated further into his shell. The call for a dialogue and updates with some real information remains as important as ever.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:06 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Well the latest PBWU is interesting more in what it does not say rather than what is actually there.

So despite 2017 being the year of RTT - Palladium's own words not mine - it is being put ont o the back burner until the second half of the year. Given the lack of any definate move towards having a contracted manufacturer, the lack of test sprues/models etc that would be a necessary precursor to actual production, I cannot see how palladium will have any product in their hands by the end of this year. Therefore the liklie hood of me a non US backer seeing anything before mid 2018 seems a optimistic stance,but evidencing another complete failure on the part of the PB team to deliver.

It is sadly , maybe just a coincidence, that the Rifts BG KS launches end of march/April this year. Just when,if we take WAve 1 as a rough guide, that PB should be working their socks off to nail down final manufacturing details to get wave 2 underway to have a slight chance of hitting 2017. It will be another cross the RTT backer community will have to bear when those two months become oa love fest between PB and a company which is apperentely nothing to do with them,

An awful long time ago in an actual KS update Wayne said he was going to give the backers a full breakdown of the status of every outstanding piece. I would strongly suggest that even if PB are reluctant to show the master renders - they must have these done if they are serious about 2017? - that the next update which must be before the Rifts BG ks launches includes this information. PB have the license, nonone else is producing RTT models so there is no reason I can think of why PB cannot share this information with their backers/investors - unless the truth is that embarrassing for them to admit to?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:58 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Yeah, that update kinda killed anything rrt for this year for just about everyone not just backers outside the USA. Then again look at their list of rpg's that started and had promised supplements. Splicers for example came out in 2004 not a single source book released. Chaos earth was 2003 with 2 extras and 2 on the way for the last 14 years, sure the line got a new book but the other 2 sounded like they'd flesh out the setting a ton better. I guess my point is pb just loves not finishing anything.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:57 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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You are right, until I backed RTT I did not know that PB had and have such a warranted reputation for delays. That said these were their own in house offerings - not sure about Northern Gun 2 - and so it was solely at their own discretion as to what they chose to work on,

I would submit that RTT is something completely different, in so much this was funded by external sources ie us the backers nad therefore a different set of priorities should have been applied.

While I respect that PB only have a limited amount of people to devote to a task and still have to meet the demands of their existing customer base - the rpg players - it strikes me taht from the get go there should have been one person specifically tasked with pushing the RTT project through. I thought in the first instance this had been Jeff Burke, then Wayne and finally Chick WAlton threw his hat in - and just as quickly it seems removed it, hell they could have even taken on Will Roache whose enthusiasm started the ball rolling. This patently did not happen and as with a lot of PB product Kevin is steering the ship, sadly while trying to juggle everything else. The result is a lack of focus and determination to finally get this over with.

The impending Rifts BG is a case in point. Although the KS has nothing directly to do with PB, Kevin has spent more verbiage extolling and pushing this in the last few monthsthan he has done in tears for RTT. I would almost say that he is a magpiue always attcted to the new shiny thing.

The obvious determination to push the Rifts BG and relegate the RTT project yet again simply shows how out of touch PB and Kevin in particular are with tthe requirements of getting this finished. Getting test renders, quotes, test moulds/sprue layouts and the rest are not something you can drop and then pick up four months later and stay on track.

The comnstant speculation is that all we are seeing is a smokescreen to try and hide the fact that PB are either financially unable to complete their end of the bargain. Whether this is true or otherwise one thing is certain the RTT backers deserve and should be getting a full and frank update on what has happenned and what is happening, not as apart of the PBWU but as a full update - even if taht again has to span two or three separate updates like the great confession a few years ago.

No backer including myself can do this, it is solely down to Palladium and that being so is down to Kevin himself to do this.

We will see, but like getting wave 2 in 2017, I am not expecting to see anything, sad as that is.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:54 pm
  

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Hero

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With wave 1, it took them nearly a full year to go from existing designs to production to shipping. If they're starting in on RRT in the second half of this year, nobody is likely to be seeing any wave 2 until 2018.

Furthermore, what happened to 'having more to report to us in January, I mean February'? Not even an explanation as to something going amiss with those efforts, or some reassurance that this won't just be kicking the can down the road to yet another year.

So even if this delivers (and that has so many asterisks in place it looks like a vulgarity filter is kicking in, which it usually should around this topic anyway), the way I see it there's no way this project doesn't pass the half decade mark.

For something that was supposed to be done in 7 months.

Maybe less.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:29 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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The Adepticon promo pic on Dakka seems to reinforce this. No Gnerls or lancers on show although we were given updates showing the potential sprue breakdowns a fair while ago. very little new on show apart from the FPA with the particle weapon.

Not sure of the merits of showing the greens for the Armoured valk and YB4? It almost smacks of someone having a root around in their "bits Box" and pulling out any and all the models they had almost forgotten about.

Less said about promoting a wargame product with unpainted and broken miniatures the better.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:18 pm
  

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Not to mention the FMPA with its arm not attached just laying by its feet.........

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:24 pm
  

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I can assure you that the models used for the demos at Adepticon this year are not those. They will be mine.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:26 am
  

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^Glad for that...just disconcerting such a photo would be used to promote it. I mean did no one noticed the arm missing? Or the warped barrels on the Monster? Just seems like a lack of effort and/or care is all.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:01 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Posts: 283
Nazdrek, I yhink that is nor really the point here, since I am certain your models are well up to the task of demoing the game.

It is the fact that promotional material from the parent company to push their game is so, for want of a better word meh. Perhaps they really should have sought you out and had a few dymanic picyures taken with your models?

This adds to my dismay on the latest PBWU were RTT only gers two lines, despite being the top topic on all of PB's discussions. Colour me pink if I take that with a pinch of salt. However, the Rifts BGKS merits a lot more and continues to get a heavy push. Again nice gesture but why is PB pushing this at Adepticon for Rogue Heroes when they constantly tell us they are stretched and understaffed, surely that other company has nore than Carmen to promote its first and likley to be most importantly its lauch product.

Sadly, unless something drastically changes in the nexr few weeks the window for 2017 will be closed and PB will have to admit they have failed on their promises again


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:12 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Thought I would post this as an interesting tid bit...

Wave Two Update

In other news, things have been moving with Wave Two. We had a two hour conference call with Ninja Kai on Tuesday, going over the spec sheet and nailing down some details, and yesterday we got a bunch of renders and tentative sprue layouts. We've begun going over those and making notes for corrections. I’ll try to get some images posted in the next week, but no promises; I’m swamped with pre-convention stuff.

Sounds all so familiar doesn't it, except that this was posted in UpDate 153 back in August 2014, over two and a half years ago. so after all this time, despite acknowledging renders and test sprues there is still nothing to show backers?

Also note this was when Wave One was being manufactured and shipped. Therefore if as Kevin stated Ninja Division had left Palladium holding the baby as regards shipping agents etc, why is Ninja John (and Kai) so obviously prominent in the process. Indeed John would subsequently go to China with Wayne to check on progress.

In the words of Desi Arnez, methinks PB has some 'xplaining to do


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:48 am
  

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wilycoyote wrote:
The Adepticon promo pic on Dakka seems to reinforce this.


Link?

Is there any promo on the Adepticon site?

Is there some official promotion happening on Dakka?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:24 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 217
Spinachcat wrote:
wilycoyote wrote:
The Adepticon promo pic on Dakka seems to reinforce this.


Link?

Is there any promo on the Adepticon site?

Is there some official promotion happening on Dakka?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/p ... ge#9253437

It was a copy/paste of information from the Adepticon Facebook page, direct linked here. No official promotion, just someone making it easier for people that don't use Facebook.

Wily is incorrect though in saying the FPA w/Particle Weapon is something new.

That model was actually one of the first shown to backers, back on January 10th, 2014. Only the Glaug Eldare*, and Support Pods** were shown to backers earlier.
* Not shown in the Adepticon promo.
* Also not shown, even though they've been commercially available for 2+ years. Also not in the picture, Spartans or Phalanx's.

I'm sure I've seen the open cockpit FPA (the one with the broken arm) and disguised Max before, but I can't place the location or date. Nothing seems to be newer than last Adepticon's AValk/YF-4/SDF-1 though. Possibly some of the paint jobs?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:10 pm
  

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Thank you Morgan.

I cannot believe a RTT event is being promoted with unpainted and broken minis. It's mind boggling.

Am I crazy or are some of those bases...DUSTY???

And how...HOW...is it possible these minis are unpainted 4 years...YEARS...later???

It's just so hard to fathom the lack of effort.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:19 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Spinachcat wrote:
Thank you Morgan.

I cannot believe a RTT event is being promoted with unpainted and broken minis. It's mind boggling.

Am I crazy or are some of those bases...DUSTY???

And how...HOW...is it possible these minis are unpainted 4 years...YEARS...later???

It's just so hard to fathom the lack of effort.

The unpainted doesn't bother me so much, as that's not so much a demo as it is a promo pic. So they show painted and unpainted (and sprues) to prospective buyers. The broken Miriya, there's no excuse for. Either repair it, remove it, or at least position it so the missing arm is behind another figure (like Max's right hand is behind the AValk).

Originally I thought you meant there being dust on the base of the painted Miriya and Breetai, and was going to point out that's probably a paint effect. Then I saw in the second picture, the unpainted battloid, one of the unpainted guardians, and several pods. And yes, that looks like dust.

As to why they haven't been painted? For all the talk Kevin has mentioned about this game being just as important to PB as it is to backers, I'm still waiting to hear anything that shows any employee at PB actually plays. That anyone at PB has painted or assembled their own force. You obviously don't want to showcase them if they're not of a professional standard, but it does show some kind of enthusiasm from the people creating it. Normally, I'd consider accepting playtime or painttime from Carmen, but for obvious reasons (he's totally a separate company now :lol: ), that no longer qualifies. So, Kevin, Wayne or Alex, though at this point I'd accept Chuck too, showing that RRT is more than just a financial obligation/revenue generator to PB, would be a good thing. It's not just the seeming lack of interest to get things done that's the problem. It's the seeming lack of interest in the game itself by the people remaining that are developing it, that is cause for concern.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:16 pm
  

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Morgan Vening wrote:
It's not just the seeming lack of interest to get things done that's the problem. It's the seeming lack of interest in the game itself by the people remaining that are developing it, that is cause for concern.


I very sadly agree.

I am not expecting PB's own people to paint / assemble minis if that's not their forte BUT that is ZERO excuse for not either (a) paying for pro-paint jobs to show off the minis or (b) asking a talented fans to send in pics of their forces to be used in marketing.

I am a gazillion percent sure there is AT LEAST ONE person on these forums who backed this KS and who can paint really well and who would be willing to freely offer pics of their minis for PB to use in their marketing endeavors.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:14 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Mmmmm....another PBWU and as usual a lot of empty words and phrases and very little, okay nnon, firm, concrete news on progress.

However, the tone of the update seems more than ever to suggest that palladium have admitted to themselves that 2017 is not likley for WAve 2 - words like we are trying, hoping that etc. Others have made the point that unless they have simply not been telling ius about getting contracts signed, test mould made etc thhen given the timeline of WAve One, they simply will not be able to fulfil yet another promise.

It is easy to feel that their heart, despite their protests otherwise are simply not in ths at all. For example this week, Check and Wayne were at Adepticon leaving Kevin to get on with stuff. Was this chasing down contracts and quotes for RTT, naw it was a bit of writing and getting in a lather about the upcoming Rifts BG - note it is blindingly obvious that April and May will be focused on this non PB product and nothing else will matter or get done.

Yet for all this Kevin somehow wants to reignite the enthusiasm for a game taht had real potential four years ago, but has been effectively killed off by Palladium themselves, by their lack of urgency in getting things done
Time for the big apology update to backers methinks.


Last edited by wilycoyote on Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:20 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Hard to believe it, but yes that date is fast approaching, four years since the Kickstarter was launched.

So, what are you going to get me to commemorate the occassion/

Tell you what, I will settle for a full and honest update on exactly where you are up to in fulfilling the Wave 2 pledges. by this I do not mean the meaningless platitudes trotted out week after week in the PBWU but cold hard facts.

If you are totally serious about 2017 then you should be able to confirm that you have all the test renders made up and ready to go - Wayne actually said this was the case over two years back. You should be able to confirm you have fixed on a manufacturer and even if not able to name should be able to say so. dates are a nuisance but you must have a very rough outline pencilled in by now - it is basic project management. What plans have you in place for shipping this time around, as a non US backer it was frustraing to wait six months for product on retail sale in the US. No excuses , no blame game, simple hard and tangible information

Relaiunching RTT without wave 2 is a strange and likely costly fail if you carry it through. You need the impetus of the full range to possibly reengage with the backers who still constitute the main fan/consumser base for this game People want what was promised in the KS and not new books - for which you expect them to pay before getting W2? - this is miniature gaming not rpging.

It should not be too much of an ask after four years to tell all of the backers - ie a proper KS update - as to what is going on in an open and frank way. Your constant cloak and dagger shennanigans do a lot more harm to the sometimes toxic mix on the KS forums, even when they are at their vitriolic worst - which may surprise you to learn- are mild compared to some I frequent.

You have a month or so before the Rifts BG KS launches and so a failure to ACT NOW and leave it until June or July (ie post that KS) will really show us as a whole what your true ambitions for RTT are. I do not believe you can really afford to lose even more face


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:16 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
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Another week , another PBWU and guess what, another complete washout. Nothing to see here, come on people move along.

Message to Planet Palladium, you have - confimed by your own words - spent more time in the last three months plugging, promoting and taking action for the non Palladium project being created by a rival company, than you have spent making tangible and reportable progress on the production of RTT Wave 2.

Lasr December you clearly and unequivocably stated that 2017 was the year of RTT - we took it with a pinch of salt and you said the same in 2016- so as we move into the second quarter shall we see what is happenning?

Oh , well actually nothing as yet, we still have not decided on part counts, a manufacturer and so have not moved towards test moulds, test sprues etc. Indeed we are still unwilling or unable to confirm we have test renders for all models. Err, I am a newb when it come to large scale plastic production, but if you are serious about getting Wave 2 out there in 2017, then this should have already happenned?

Oh we have big plans for GenCon and are planning a large tourney. Again what is the format how many conetestants do you belive may sign up have you taken steps to get that space at the event. Again lots of hot air but little actual fact.

Look I am a reasonable man but we are fast approaching the four year anniversary of the KS lauch and you still have not kept your promises. can I suggest you stop twiidling your collective thumbs, man up and tell us exactly what is going on, good or bad and tell us exactly in plain words exactly what you are doing to resolve the problems


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:09 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 pm
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wilycoyote wrote:
Another week , another PBWU and guess what, another complete washout. Nothing to see here, come on people move along.

Message to Planet Palladium, you have - confimed by your own words - spent more time in the last three months plugging, promoting and taking action for the non Palladium project being created by a rival company, than you have spent making tangible and reportable progress on the production of RTT Wave 2.

Lasr December you clearly and unequivocably stated that 2017 was the year of RTT - we took it with a pinch of salt and you said the same in 2016- so as we move into the second quarter shall we see what is happenning?

More like with a pound of salt. After four such grand statements (end of 2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2017), I doubt most backers were seriously expecting any movement. Heck, this round has had less shown than any of the previous years.
Late 2013/early 2014, there were several PPP's of Wave 2 product, specifically the Glaug Eldare, FPA and FPA Experimental.
2015 had the release in February of the 5 wire frame parts images of the Glaug Eldare, Jotun, Ghost, Lancer and Gnerl.
2016 had the release in March and April of 3D prints of the AValk and the YF-4 in three modes, and the SDF-1 Resin.
2017 has had.... nothing. Talk of a scenario book that'd be kind of weak without Wave 2 models. And as you've pointed out, next to no talk about actual progress towards doing anything. Heck, this PBWU's "Nothing new to report this week" is almost emblematic of how people should feel.

As has been said over and over, by many, that while sure, some things can't be discussed while negotiations are happening, surely things can be talked about that fell through. How about talking about what happened that caused "We want Wave Two out yesterday. Or even better, last year. That can’t happen. We are shooting for the end of 2015 and will do EVERYTHING we can to make that a reality. But as I hope you are beginning to understand, things are not always under our absolute control." {KSU#179, June 7th 2015} to fall through.

Or what the things were that was hyped with "In the Spring we expect to be able to share with you much more details, information, progress reports and offer up new material on a regular basis. We’ll have some new data and material sooner, but I don’t think things will really begin to heat up before Spring or Summer." {KSU#190 Jan 30 2016}. There's only so much you can hype something with zero evidence before people just dismiss you as the guy who cryed "Wave 2!" too many times.

But the fact of the matter is, people have straight stopped caring. With the exception of Wiley's PBWUU reports here, there hasn't been a new message of any kind from anyone else, since Spinachat's comment 16 days ago. Now there might be a hotbed of chatter somewhere on the interwebs for RRT, but it's not here. And it's not anywhere public where new fans can find it. Simply put, there seems to be a significant amount of apathy as people just seem to be giving up and moving on. As much as some people might be critical of PB, those people still have passion. Sure, that might just be anger that can't be soothed, but at least some of them might be turned around, due to their love of the IP. The people that give up? It'll be a lot harder to get them back, if a relaunch is to be successful.

Regardless, I don't expect any movement on anything before or during the RiftsBG Kickstarter. But even that is lacking in activity. No posts on the PBForums in two weeks, no posts on the RHFB page in almost three. I know they're working towards a big launch, but there's still value in putting teaser material out there. That the Kickstarter is due to launch on or about the 4th anniversary or the RRT Kickstarter, is not likely to go over well. Especially if as I predict, PB are silent with regard a Kickstarter Update that is more than empty promises.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:35 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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You are right of course, the interest is falling off and to some extent it is only my pig headedness that keeps me coming back, just to show there are people still out there. That said the PB boards as a whole are hardly most active right accross the various subforums.
Given that there is just the hard core responding on a regular basis here, on the KS forum and Dakka, the idea of a grand relaunch seems like so much wishful thinking than an actuality.

As for your final comments, I find it ironic that Kevin is able to tell us he is approving Rifts BG figures and artwork, but cannott confirm the same has been done by Harmony Gold for the RTT Wave 2 and resins. I totally agree that any current negotiations may be iunder embargo, but what happenned three years ago when it was all green lights according to Wayne himself and Ninja John - they were best buddies then flying out to China to supervise production at the same time. What went wrong why did they not press ahead with Wave 2 at that point. For instance if it was part counts it would be of interest to see what was on offer - incidentally proving they had the models - and how complex/unwieldy the proposed kits were.

I have and am backing delayed kickstarters but none have proven to be so frustrating as this one. The one and sole reason the total lack of purpose on behalf of Palladium and their total inability to communicate with their baclkers, again so ironic as they are a publishing house who week after week tell us what great written product they are producing


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:48 pm
  

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No, the PB forums have never been particularly active, but one would hope that these would have become the natural meeting grounds for enthusiastic players, had this project not gone so completely sideways. (Editor's Note: until wave 2 delivers, I feel this is an uncontroversial statement, even if it speaks to a harsh truth)

Yes, Dakkadakka, the Kickstarter Comments, and Mike's Facebook page are all substantially more active with chatter about the game/project, however two out of those three are almost entirely based on mockery and scorn at this point, and the third, while home to a number of gifted modelers, painters, and gamers, represents perhaps dozens or hundreds of engaged players, off hand (not scientifically determined, simply based on a casual reading of that page for years now and a general sense of who actually posts shots of progress on figures, or battle reports, etc).

And yes, there are others, such as the "uncensored" version of that page (which was spawned after some particularly impressive idiocy), but I think it's fair to say that the venues in which RRT is discussed in anything remotely resembling a positive light are few and far in between.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:42 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Okay what can we comment on about this weeks PBWU?

Well actually nothing as that was the sum total of news/information (apart from the obligatory cit n paste sales pitch) for RTT.

It is (and has been for months) maddenning that Palladium, more directly Kevin, is championing a other companies project - it still has to go to market - and brags about time spent on it, when he has said nothing about talks.meetings or discussions held for RTT in months (or is that years). Is it any real wonder then that the backer community are so hostile to him and indirectly to Carmen and his fledging compamy.

Suffice it to say we are still waiting on the full, frank and honest update we are owed now for well over a year - the less said about Wayne's promised full status breakdown the better.

we are now at the end of April 2017 with no test moulds or sprues having been reported- despite all or most renders being confirmed in Wayne's update three years ago, The conclusion is quite simply NO WAVE 2 in 2017

Okay I am a big boy and can face critisism, so if you can prove me wrong then please do so, if not why not grow a pair and tell the backer community what is ahppenning and why not actually tell us what happenned to prrevent production in the last few years.

This is a PB project not someone elses so I can see no reason why you should , and morally must, do this


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:13 pm
  

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Comment: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Fan
wilycoyote wrote:
The conclusion is quite simply NO WAVE 2 in 2017


Sadly, my opinion has changed over time and I now honestly believe there will never be a wave 2.

RTT is dead.

PB just won't admit it.

They can't give out refunds, and they can't ship wave 2 (not saying they don't want to ship wave 2, they can't). The best we backers can hope for is PB store credit (shipping and handling not included).

PB gave it their best shot, and they went into it with the best of intentions, but we are at a point where it's obvious that RTT is dead. Why else would PB say the same thing week after week for 3+ years? There has been no progress in a very long time. Even the slowest of companies would be able to do something concrete in the time since wave 1 shipped.

denial - Check, used to think that wave 2 was going to happen
anger - Check, got upset over the lack of wave 2 details
bargaining - Check, tried to get a refund
depression - Check, then got bummed out
acceptance - Finally reached this point


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:14 am
  

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The games popularity seems to have been waning for quite some time. I remember discussing the notion of possibly going with credit on RRT/PB products to make good on what is owed (at a pro-rated level of course) a good 2 years ago. While I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the idea of PB books (I sold off most of my collection years ago) or more RRT (ditto), at least it'd be something in hand. I imagine the community interest in buying (along with the massive influx of product into the community) would minimize if not kill any chance of sales to offset what we backers paid into the project, but items in hand would be superior to empty promises for years on end (editor's note: Wave 2 would deliver in 2014, 2015, 2016, currently 2017, and expected to move to 2018 in the months to come; this is a factual statement).


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:04 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Forar wrote:
The games popularity seems to have been waning for quite some time. I remember discussing the notion of possibly going with credit on RRT/PB products to make good on what is owed (at a pro-rated level of course) a good 2 years ago. While I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the idea of PB books (I sold off most of my collection years ago) or more RRT (ditto), at least it'd be something in hand. I imagine the community interest in buying (along with the massive influx of product into the community) would minimize if not kill any chance of sales to offset what we backers paid into the project, but items in hand would be superior to empty promises for years on end (editor's note: Wave 2 would deliver in 2014, 2015, 2016, currently 2017, and expected to move to 2018 in the months to come; this is a factual statement).

From a technical perspective, you can probably add 2013 to that list. While Wave 2 wasn't defined until January 2014, everything actually within Wave 2 was initially promised in 2013, at least as far as September of 2013.

Regarding the move to 2018, it's already too late unless they're doing a LOT of work "in secret" (which would make zero sense). Based on the prior run, it took 3 months from full manufacturing until the first real packages went out. While the print runs for each item are arguably smaller, there's significantly more of them, both to cover the number of items, and with more being multi-sprue. W1 had what, 6 UEDF and 4 Zen sprues? At minimum estimate, 7 UEDF to mold, (AValk/SValk/VF-1D/VEF Upgrades*, Jotun, Lancer/Ghost combo, 2 for YF-4, 2 at least for Monster), 5 Zentradi (FPA, Gnerl, MPA, ZInf and GEldare Upgrade*), and 1 KSE (upgrade components for Roy/Rick/Miriya/Khyron*). That's 13 total, or 3 more than the initial run. Significantly more if they don't do upgrade sprues and have seperate sprues for ZInf and the UEDF aircraft.

* Upgrades would require significantly less molds, but would significantly extend print runs, as they'd also have to print significant additional copies of Valks, FPA, and Glaugs. And would arguably be a breach of their initial promises. And even with the simple task of separating the combo sprues, that's still some extra labor required.

Assuming they intend to fulfill their promise of North American backers first (ROW getting hosed is expected), that took ~6 weeks. While the packages will be smaller, there'll be a lot more picking (ie, getting each order together) than Wave 1, so at best it's a wash, at worst it's significantly longer (as there are likely to be a lot more unique configurations). So, the dates then become
Early July gets them a potential Black Friday release.
Early August gets them a potential Christmas release.

So that means if it hasn't started production by GenCon, it'll be all but impossible to be this year. That doesn't take into account all the work needed before hand (contracts, sculpts, molds, test runs, and approvals). If those haven't been done already, this year, and probably the first half of next year are probably out of the question.

Also, none of that factors in the resin components, of which we've seen one (of at least eight) make it to production. I can see the slowness of resin production being an issue if they ignore it too long.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:40 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
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Total agreement with everything said, at the moment unless there is some big secret behind the scenes movement which kicks everything off by the end of this month , effectively RTT is dead for 2017 and very likely 2018 as well

My big fear is that now PB will be left with little alternative but to offer store credit I simply do not want any of their outdated product, since I only came into this from a wargaming/miniature point of view.

An even bigger fear is that somehow they will try to inviegle us into the Rifts KS by somehow offering that product in some shape or form - are they allowed to put a potential refund for RTT into that project?. This would be great for Carmen and the "sales" of their first project and Kevin's baby Rifts is protected, but what about us the customer?

Boy, if Palladium try to financially link us to the Rifts BG KS, without consent I could see it getting real ugly over there - afterall by default we would have been made bone fide backers and have a right to fully express our views.

Likeliehood, is that all the above will not happen, Palladium will continue to sit on their collective bums as regards RTT and simply hope by doing nothing we will all fade away and leave them alone


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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:45 am
  

D-Bee

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Comment: Yabba Dabba Doo
This is the fifth calendar year that we've been told we'll definitely have the product and the second that they said they were going to relaunch the line.

Quote:
PB gave it their best shot


Not to be contentious, but I don't see any proof of that.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:47 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
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New week and surprise , surprise no news not even a mention for RTT - oh apart sales and the Gen Con thingy.

Not sure if that was supposed to mollify the RTT backers but pushing the old school Robotech rpg as something massive? Then again amusing to see the praise the move got on the Facebook page.

All in all is it now official given the Rifts BG KS tarts next week, that nothing, I mean absolutely nothing will now be done on RTT and progrees until this has run its course, say another two months. Of course by which time it will be mid June and it wil leave no doubt whatsoever that we will not get anything in 2018.

The challenge remains and is simple. Palladium now must come back to the backers with a full and frank explanation as to what has gone on and what if anything is currently happenning. If as kevin repreatedly said in late 2016/earler this year that they were moving to manufacturing, then show us AKK the test models - the Adepticon lineup still missed, Rik, Fokker, Khyron, Miryna's FPA, Infantry and of course the bulk of the resins. Case in point whty after nearly five years have Palladium not been able to source and create the resin bases - part count of one.

My expectation is unchanged , Palladium will continue to sit on their hands and show no positive proofs that they have done anything for the last 18 months as regards getting Wave 2 to their customers.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:32 pm
  

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Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
wilycoyote wrote:
New week and surprise , surprise no news not even a mention for RTT - oh apart sales and the Gen Con thingy.

/Not sure if that was supposed to mollify the RTT backers but pushing the old school Robotech rpg as something massive? Then again amusing to see the praise the move got on the Facebook page.

One thing we can say for certain, they don't react well when the plain speakers suggest their priorities might need a little reevaluation.

With all the ill will and frustration over the RRT Kickstarter still festering, I'm rather afraid for the Rifts BG launch for reasons that are obvious and require no elaboration.

(At least there's one silver lining to this week for Palladium... they're no longer the only Robotech licensee living under a storm of bad press. Titan Comics is currently getting reamed for all manner of things, but most importantly their "new" take on the VF-1 being stolen from someone's DeviantArt page.)

_________________
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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:23 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 283
Yeah, seen that set do for Titn comics

Anyway it isthe fourth anniversary of this project and so for a bit of fun (albeit not from April but September) we were told

"We are still shooting for a December ship date, but we don’t know yet if that’s a sure thing. What we do know is that Kickstarter backers will be shipped goods BEFORE we ship to distributors. What’s more, you’ll receive everything all at once, while the initial retail release will only include the main game and the first six expansion packs, with the rest coming out in waves throughout 2014. But you, wise Kickstarter backer, will already have all the things"

Apart from the fib about backers before retail, anyone at palladium want to explain the next three and a half years and what went wrong and more importantly why it ain't fixed yet?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:58 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 283
Dear Mr Siembieda,

I am writing to you directly to ask politely what is happenning withthe Robotech Tactics KS project and specifically the status of the models we were promised for WAve 2.

Back in 2014 you successfully after a reasonable delay (at least in normal kickstarter terms) you manufactured and distributed the first wave of models to thebackers and retail. At this point the KS updates indicated that ALL the models had been 3d rendered and that it was only going to be s short while before wave 2 production began. I believe your stated intention in breking up the manufacture into two was praiseworty enough, you wanted us to get some rewards as soon as possible.

However, since then it does seem that nothing has happenned> The moves to test moulds, test sprues and ultimately wave 2 never happenned at all in in the remainder of 2014 and not at all in 2015. Your updates became less frequent and although telling us you were working hard and to be patient there was almost no little detail about why the delays were happenning. Then you started to change the dialogue to trying to reduce parts counts, with seemed tp take up most of 2016. Then you suddenly announced that such reductions could not be done and so were going back to Plan B

Great I thought they have decided to go back and use the original specs they miust have deleloped and so so finally wave 2 will be green lighted.

However, within weeks you changed the dialogue back to reducing part counts, with no explanation as to how this was now suddenly possible, after months of research and concluding it could not.. Such wiffle waffle , seems to indicate there was no real intention to do anything concrete at all.

Then for the last six months you have told us you are lookng to sign contracts and finally begin production. Reasonably again you did not want to release too many details. However, half a year later and still no progrress and the PBWU just cuts and pastes the same lines, telling everyone you are working hard, the job is more difficult than you thought, but be patient , keep the faith, ad nauseum

As an aside, it is most baffling of all, is why the resin objectives and bases have not been completed - how many parts in a figure base?

I fully appreciate the difficulties of running such a large project and that difficulties can and always will arise, but do feel in a lot of ways that in this instance there is a lack of real substance to your excuses. For instance over two years ago, as can be plainly seen in a Kickstarter update, your colleague Wayne promised a full breakdown of the status of every outstanding model. Why was this not published, there were no secrets were there, it was simply a printout of the project's milestones. By doing nothing here, leads to the conclusion that there is a lot of talk but no actual measurable actions taking place.

All I want (apart of course my promised rewards) is for you to spend a few hours drafting a full and frank update to the 5300+ backers of this project and tell us exctly what went wrong over these last three years, clear the air , make a clean breast of it and start anew. Then tell us exactly why you cannot greenlight wave 2 with what you have, given at this point the interest in the game is limited to these same backers, there simply is not a wargaming community out there for this product. It plain english, if you do wantRTT to be a success, then you need the KS community to make that happen, these are the people who cared enough about a 30 year old franchise to invest their monies, in good faith, to get this done. These same people are your target audience for anything you want to do in the future with this franchise

In simple terms, you owe us a explanation and pethaps a full apology.

Yours faithfully

A patient but disgruntled RTT backer


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:03 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:14 pm
Posts: 9250
Location: Northwood, ND
wilycoyote wrote:
Dear Mr Siembieda,

I am writing to you directly to ask politely what is happenning withthe Robotech Tactics KS project and specifically the status of the models we were promised for WAve 2.

Back in 2014 you successfully after a reasonable delay (at least in normal kickstarter terms) you manufactured and distributed the first wave of models to thebackers and retail. At this point the KS updates indicated that ALL the models had been 3d rendered and that it was only going to be s short while before wave 2 production began. I believe your stated intention in breking up the manufacture into two was praiseworty enough, you wanted us to get some rewards as soon as possible.

However, since then it does seem that nothing has happenned> The moves to test moulds, test sprues and ultimately wave 2 never happenned at all in in the remainder of 2014 and not at all in 2015. Your updates became less frequent and although telling us you were working hard and to be patient there was almost no little detail about why the delays were happenning. Then you started to change the dialogue to trying to reduce parts counts, with seemed tp take up most of 2016. Then you suddenly announced that such reductions could not be done and so were going back to Plan B

Great I thought they have decided to go back and use the original specs they miust have deleloped and so so finally wave 2 will be green lighted.

However, within weeks you changed the dialogue back to reducing part counts, with no explanation as to how this was now suddenly possible, after months of research and concluding it could not.. Such wiffle waffle , seems to indicate there was no real intention to do anything concrete at all.

Then for the last six months you have told us you are lookng to sign contracts and finally begin production. Reasonably again you did not want to release too many details. However, half a year later and still no progrress and the PBWU just cuts and pastes the same lines, telling everyone you are working hard, the job is more difficult than you thought, but be patient , keep the faith, ad nauseum

As an aside, it is most baffling of all, is why the resin objectives and bases have not been completed - how many parts in a figure base?

I fully appreciate the difficulties of running such a large project and that difficulties can and always will arise, but do feel in a lot of ways that in this instance there is a lack of real substance to your excuses. For instance over two years ago, as can be plainly seen in a Kickstarter update, your colleague Wayne promised a full breakdown of the status of every outstanding model. Why was this not published, there were no secrets were there, it was simply a printout of the project's milestones. By doing nothing here, leads to the conclusion that there is a lot of talk but no actual measurable actions taking place.

All I want (apart of course my promised rewards) is for you to spend a few hours drafting a full and frank update to the 5300+ backers of this project and tell us exctly what went wrong over these last three years, clear the air , make a clean breast of it and start anew. Then tell us exactly why you cannot greenlight wave 2 with what you have, given at this point the interest in the game is limited to these same backers, there simply is not a wargaming community out there for this product. It plain english, if you do wantRTT to be a success, then you need the KS community to make that happen, these are the people who cared enough about a 30 year old franchise to invest their monies, in good faith, to get this done. These same people are your target audience for anything you want to do in the future with this franchise

In simple terms, you owe us a explanation and pethaps a full apology.

Yours faithfully

A patient but disgruntled RTT backer


I'm with you on this, and feel the same way. If I had to guess, because extra costs and maybe some things that were done wrong in the shipping that caused costs to be more, that they don't have enough money to do Wave 2. And that is why "they are trying to reduce the parts count". That is a code phase, IMO, to them looking for a place to do Wave 2 with the money they have left, and them not finding it, hence, Wave 2 not coming out. Though I could be completely wrong.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:01 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 283
I want to steer clear of finance as much as possible as it often results in unevidenced accusations, suffice it to say that four years on, the spiralling costs - for instance postal charges are over two times as much - means that the orignal business model must be well past its sell by date and without another revenue stream, funds must be extremely tight at best.

What I really want to know is what has happenned over these last three or so years since WAve 1 went out? As mentioned the progress reported was slow but at the time it did seem it was just a matter of starting up that second wave, However, it all stopped, updates became far less frequent and when they did appear there was no really concrete news - see this year, talk od contracts, things we cannot be told and of course the insensitive tirades following Carmen's intervention.

If someone , who had no interest in the game was to read the updates from the last two years the conclusion could be drawn that Palladium are trying there best to hide something. In fact I asked a friend to do this and this was what he thought and he was baffled by the total disregard to what should be your most important asset your customer base.

I am hoping - albeit with very little hope - that Palladium get their act together this week and write up and send a full update, not a few lines in the PBWU,. Especially with the impending KS launch of the Rifts BG. If they do not I can see that there will be a lot of hostility directed at that project, true it will not be warranted but there is a raging undercurrent of anger against anything slightly PB related and its cause is rooted in their failure with RTT

We shall see.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:58 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1344
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Another reason to avoid cost factors is that Palladium (in general) and Kevin (in specific) have been quite clear about progress being made, despite having little to show off other than a now yearly'ish ritual of providing a new prototype or sprue breakdown render.

If this project were actually in dire straits, then they should tell us that. We cannot believe wholeheartedly that the finances are a mess while simultaneously taking them at their word that everything is okay (if going extremely slowly).

Yes, there are reasonable questions and concerns to raise for a project that hasn't shown more than token progress in ~2.5 years. But at least as long as their story remains 'it's coming, it's totally going to happen, we just can't tell you about the details because reasons' (something about people being mean on the internet, despite their silence earning them... people being mean on the internet), then they are being held to their word. That wave 2 is in progress, and will be out in 2017 (though let's be real, that'll slide to 2018 before we know it).

Declaring failure is an option. One that would likely incur significant ire, and possibly push a few backers towards taking some form of action, but let's be real, very few people are going to spend thousands of dollars to recoup an average contribution of $300. It would be an inconvenience for sure, but I'd applaud an admission of the project ending and taking the resulting backlash over spending 4 years (approaching 5 if one takes their press release about months of work being done leading up to it at face value) of work that has gradually gone from "oooh, it's slow but things are happening!" to "it has been so long many people have forgotten they even backed in the first place".


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:45 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 283
Ah well we never got that update, not all together unexpected but still disappointing that Palladium and Kevin in particular simply do not have any class and comtinue to effectively abuse what is a large potentially core customer base

The super hype for the Rifts BG, is a bitter pill to take, especially when this is suposedly another companies prduct that is in competition with you and you are asking people to buy this and reduce any potential sales of your own stuff - okay that is stretching it a tad perhaps. It is so, so annoying to see this , especially given the sparse amount of push and information given to RTT over the last two or so years. A sort of update back in September and the odd mention in the PBWU about sums it up. I discount the two Feb updates as that was backer bashing and nothing as regards the progress of this project.

Most tellingly in the scant information posted was the key line "RTT is NOT forgotten" er are you really sure about that Kevin? For the last four months instead of working to get contracts sigbned off and production started, becuase in your own words you are DEDICATED to getting RTT to us in 2017, you seem to have spent most of that time working for your friend on something else. We all know 2017 is now simply not going to happen and the reason (blame) for this lies squarely on you and your inability ( or is it absolute reluctance) to deliver on what you say.

Okay getting an update seems to be something you are reluctant to give us, so.......

What are these plans you have been dreaming up for the last year or more and why have they to be kept so secret that the people who you will certainly needonboard to make anything happen are the people you do not want to know what is happenning.

Sorry, but as every week/month/year goes by your colossal fail here will still haunt your business and sadly anything even remotedly connected to you for years to come. I wish Carmen every success but I have a horrible feeling that there will be a hard core of disgruntled RTT backers who are going to make sure that yur failings here will be repeated almost ad nauseum over there.

Of course, if you were to keep a promise and communicate exactly where the RTT project is at, are you at the point of green lighting Wave 2 or could I even dare to ask if Wayne has finally finished that status report on every model yet.......


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:43 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:07 am
Posts: 38
Comment: Yabba Dabba Doo
It is always on their minds.
They are always just wishing we would go away.


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