Questions from a Newbie RIFTS GM

[Alrik Vas]

Paired Weapons also lets you attack twice in one action, but you give up your automatic parry.

I believe the -4 stands as it would be a "called shot" not and "aimed shot", i'd have to look up the rest.

Bio Manipulation is strong indeed, however you enter a trance to use it and takes a great deal of time. It isn't like a supernatural creature's bio-regen, which happens automatically even during combat.

Yes, you need an 8 and WP's mostly give +1 at level 1. Aiming gives +2 but costs an action. Many weapons give extra bonuses on aiming and so does equipment like scopes, same with the Sniper skill. I believe a Multi-Optic eye implant gives a flat +1 at all times. Fighter/Soldier type characters can also take WP Sharpshooting, which gives you more bonuses.

Loot is really up to you. Tricky to give out the right amounts if you don't want your players to make millions off salvage. If you gloss over how much of a full time job salvage work is, then it's easy and they get rich as long as they keep winning. If you get meticulous, they'll get sick of it quick though.

[The Ruiner]

1. Paired weapons can let you parry attacks from more than 1 combatant (or 1 with combatant with 2 melee weapons), but the main advantage of having paired weapons is being able to parry with one and then effectively do a simutanious strike on the opponent.

2. I don't have my books with me right now (at work), so I'm not sure on the numbers. But as far as the other part, the Vamp is pretty much instantly incapacitated. You could add in some flavor by saying that he starts clutching at the wound/stake, but collaped before being able to pull it out.

3. Nope. That power is a beast. Make your save or wait for the duration. I would also say that if the group can kill the mind melter, that would free whomever is under it's control.

4. There is the sniper skill selection, also I believe there are some aftermarket scopes or cybernetic targeting systems that will add to the strike bonus.

5. Absolutely. Mabey not after every encounter. Give out magic stuff at your own discretion and try to avoid unbalancing your game. Things like undamaged armour or equipment for salvage/ to restock pc's supplies, a cred stick or 2 with a tidy sum on it (mabey the money was on it's way somewhere and the person waiting for it tracks it down?), extra e-clips or a weapon upgrade are completely reasonable.

6. Good luck and good gaming!

[Alrik Vas]

I just noticed i took Bio Manipulation and talked about it like it was Bio Regeneration. oops

[guardiandashi]

Hey All,

I've recently started running a RIFTS campaign. I'm planning on having an actual play thread in case anyone is interested in following the story. In the few sessions we've run, I'm come across a few rules that I've had questions about and was hoping I could get some advice from the pros!

In no particular order:

1. Paired Weapons: The way I'm interpreting it is that it lets you parry twice a round instead of once. Is that basically the main advantage of it?

2. Staking a Vampire: The rules are really all over the place. It says it's -4 to hit the heart, but it's an aimed action, giving you +2. So is it -2 to hit the heart and it takes two attacks?
Second part: Once you hit them, the vamp spends the rest of the turn pulling our the stake? Or are they incapacitated?

3. Is there any magical or psionic remedy to Bio-Manipulation? This power seems really strong. I've been running it that our Mind Melter can use diagnosis and then psychic surgery to negate the effects, otherwise, one of my players just sits there for the entire combat.

4. Shooting. Between gray book and RUE, it seems like you have to get an 8, but you basically only get +1 for the WP at level one. Aside from aiming and situational modifiers, is there any other way to increase your chance to hit?

5. Is it ok to give out "loot"? As in, I'm trying to make missions appealing with dropping some magic items, etc. into the mix. Anyone have any experience with this going awry? I've been playing with my group for over 20 years, so we're all past the mid-max days and focus on story, but we do like tough challenges.

Thanks for the help!

1 paired weapons is kind of odd, with that said it kind of depends on what you have in the "off hand" what it allows you to do.
1a examples that come to mind. you have probabally seen these examples but for example TMNT ALL of the turtles can in some ways be considered to fight with paired weapons but ... Leo uses paired Katana's so he has more reach but his attacks are a little slower. Donatello uses a staff which in some staff fighting techniques is sort of like paired weapons in that you can shift the focus from end to end of the staff abruptly. Paired Sai's these are parrying daggers/ sword breaker daggers sort of. Paired "nunchucks" rather tricky to use well but in the right situations VERY dangerous.

more high tech examples: "Rex" from the clone wars "cartoon" fights with 2 pistols, he can't really parry, but he gets more attacks by having 2 pistols, only thing is reloading is more of a pain.

2 vampire.. since staking is one of their "specific incapacitation weaknesses" I would in general treat them as immediately unable to do anything "constructive" with that said they don't HAVE to collapse instantly, but they should NOT be able to unstake themselves unless they are VERY powerful. but they might collapse immediately, start thrashing, and or screaming, grab and attempt (but fail) to remove the stake, etc. you can still make it cool and a dramatic end to that portion of the encounter.

3 bio manip I would allow psych diagnosis/psychic surgery, some kinds of healing, and bio-manip to undo what it did.

4 shooting is kind of weird. I personally think high pp SHOULD give some bonuses to attacks as its all about precision but ....
according to the rules: wp gives bonuses to attacks with ranged weapons. some classes also do, some traits may as well (see new robotech books for examples) sniper, and similar have already been touched on, some weapons have "inherent" bonuses, scopes laser designators etc can also help.

5 loot most RPG's are all about loot, with that said the loot doesn't HAVE to be real usable unless the players/chars are willing to get into a touch of the "grisly nasty Looting".
armor or armor pieces are real common as long as you don't completely destroy it, weapons, eclips, and other ammo are quite reasonable. magic items depending on what you were fighting (potentially using it against the players) cybernetic/borg implants etc. while some of those are potentially high profit, some of them are pretty "yucky" to get, I mean think of what you would need to do to retrieve a bionic eye, or heart for example.

[Zer0 Kay]

1. I've always allowed a person to parry as many incoming attacks as were coming in, as long as they had auto parry or enough attacks in a round, the only issue was if your not skilled in paired you can't parry two attacks at the same time (initiative) or someone's second attack with paired weapons. As others have stated, largest benefit is being able to parry an attack and make a simultaneous attack.

2a. Yes
2b. Instantaneous. After researching vampires and finding out how long it takes them to reform after unstaked and develop a machine that extracts the stake and right after they become aware, but before they're conscious it plunges the stake back in, over and over.

3. Break the psychic's concentration?

4a. Could a sworn in RMB it was 4+ to hit.
4b. Multi optics helmet, super accurate weapons like Wilk's lasers, laser sight, scopes. I allow a laser sight and optical scope of some sort to work in conjunction. If you have some sort of computer that feeds into an optical or auto corrects the laser sights aim point for environmental variables I'd give it an additional plus one for each variable that would truly effect hot chances.

5. You already got my PM which should answer this one.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1) Parrying: Paired weapons lets the char have an action for each of their two arms in the same APM. How this relates to parrying is that if someone attacks of a single attack phase they loose their ability to parry incoming attacks. But parrying in itself does not take up an attack. With Paired weapons the char can attack with one weapon, while reserving the other to parry.

2)a) Yes, you add all the bonuses and penalties together to get the modifier to the strike roll.
2)b) They immediately drop down immobilized.
3) Mind Block, Mind Block Auto Defense, and Group Mind Block.
The power is really Nerfed from what it could be, if you are comparing it to comic books or other superhero stuff.
4)a) Yes there are situational penalties. They are listed in the core books of the settings.(note: there was a change with basic shooting rules with RUE so other setting's bonuses and penalties will be different)
4)b) No, in Rifts, other then the Sniper Skill, there are no ways to add a bonus to a ranged shot.
However, in Ninja and Superspies there is a One shot, one life, one kill Martial Art Technique that lets the char gain bonuses to the char's shot.
5) Loot, yes, but should be what would be relative to what would be there.
For minor magic items (I.O.W.: not the stupid TW stuff in rifts books) you should get the PFRPG 2nd ed main book, PF2 Western Empire, and the Nightlands books.

[Zer0 Kay]

1) Parrying: Paired weapons lets the char have an action for each of their two arms in the same APM. How this relates to parrying is that if someone attacks of a single attack phase they loose their ability to parry incoming attacks. But parrying in itself does not take up an attack. With Paired weapons the char can attack with one weapon, while reserving the other to parry.

2)a) Yes, you add all the bonuses and penalties together to get the modifier to the strike roll.
2)b) They immediately drop down immobilized.
3) Mind Block, Mind Block Auto Defense, and Group Mind Block.
The power is really Nerfed from what it could be, if you are comparing it to comic books or other superhero stuff.
4)a) Yes there are situational penalties. They are listed in the core books of the settings.(note: there was a change with basic shooting rules with RUE so other setting's bonuses and penalties will be different)
4)b) No, in Rifts, other then the Sniper Skill, there are no ways to add a bonus to a ranged shot.
However, in Ninja and Superspies there is a One shot, one life, one kill Martial Art Technique that lets the char gain bonuses to the char's shot.
5) Loot, yes, but should be what would be relative to what would be there.
For minor magic items (I.O.W.: not the stupid TW stuff in rifts books) you should get the PFRPG 2nd ed main book, PF2 Western Empire, and the Nightlands books.

Well if were going with N&S then China has the Triad Martial art that adds to firearms.

[grandmaster z0b]

3- Yeah Bio-Manipulation is very powerful, but it is a Super Psionic power so it should be. Mind Block will only give an extra +1 to save but it's something. Full Conversion borgs and those in giant robots are immune and Psi-Stalkers are virtually immune requiring only a 6 to save and they will most likely have other bonuses to save vs. psionics. Apart from that all I can say is try to stay out of range (160 feet) and avoid direct line of sight. If you feel it's too powerful you could allow a victim that's aware of the attack a dodge to break the line of sight first.

4- There is the Sharpshooting skill in Rifts: New West and the Game Master's Guide which can give an additional bonus for a high PP. Apart from that remember that when you shoot at someone they can only dodge (at -5 or -10) which generally means missing the next attack as well. Even if they dodge whoever shot will still have initiative next round. That said it's very hard to hit a Juicer or Crazy with auto-dodge, and I agree that the difference between the bonus to strike from Hand to Hand skills + PP bonus + WP bonus can be very high compared to the +1 or +2 from a modern WP.

[Killer Cyborg]

Hey All,

I've recently started running a RIFTS campaign. I'm planning on having an actual play thread in case anyone is interested in following the story. In the few sessions we've run, I'm come across a few rules that I've had questions about and was hoping I could get some advice from the pros!

In no particular order:

1. Paired Weapons: The way I'm interpreting it is that it lets you parry twice a round instead of once. Is that basically the main advantage of it?

No.
Anybody with HTH skills can parry as many times as they want per round (although they can't parry more than 3 attackers, iirc).
The main advantage of Paired Weapons is that...
-You can choose to parry an incoming attack, and still make a simultaneous attack with your other weapon.
Which means that if you've got good bonuses, and you're fighting an opponent with only one weapon, the melee round ends up with the opponent getting stabbed/clubbed every time he tries to attack you, and he doesn't even get to hit with his attack.
(Keep in mind that when you make a simultaneous attack, that uses your next attack)
-If you don't have to worry about parrying for some reason (like, you're a Juicer with auto-dodge, or you're invulnerable, or you just don't mind getting hit), then you can attack with both weapons at once on the same target, with one attack, and effectively inflict double damage.
-IF two opponents have the same initiative (or otherwise happen to attack you at the exact same time), you can parry both opponents at the same time.
You can't do that with just one weapon, although generally one weapon can attempt to parry any number of attacks that don't happen at the exact same time.
-You can strike two different targets at once.
Although you lose your automatic parry when you do this, it's handy when taking down large numbers of weaker foes.
-You can parry a dual-attack by an opponent with Paired Weapons. (Otherwise, you'd end up in the first situation that I describe above)

2. Staking a Vampire: The rules are really all over the place. It says it's -4 to hit the heart, but it's an aimed action, giving you +2. So is it -2 to hit the heart and it takes two attacks?
Second part: Once you hit them, the vamp spends the rest of the turn pulling our the stake? Or are they incapacitated?

I dunno. I haven't looked over the new book. Just go with consensus on this one.
Although it'd be weird if a vampire could move when he was properly staked.

3. Is there any magical or psionic remedy to Bio-Manipulation? This power seems really strong. I've been running it that our Mind Melter can use diagnosis and then psychic surgery to negate the effects, otherwise, one of my players just sits there for the entire combat.

No.

4. Shooting. Between gray book and RUE, it seems like you have to get an 8, but you basically only get +1 for the WP at level one. Aside from aiming and situational modifiers, is there any other way to increase your chance to hit?

Some weapons get +1 to strike without having to Aim.
Some targeting systems might work the same way.
Other than that, you generally have to Aim in order to get good bonuses these days, or to be high level.

5. Is it ok to give out "loot"? As in, I'm trying to make missions appealing with dropping some magic items, etc. into the mix. Anyone have any experience with this going awry? I've been playing with my group for over 20 years, so we're all past the mid-max days and focus on story, but we do like tough challenges.
Thanks for the help!

Yes, it's perfectly fine to give out loot. That's kind of standard in RPGs.
In Rifts, how much you give out should depend on what kind of adventure/campaign you're trying to run. Keep in mind that the main balancing factor in the setting is money.
IMO, Rifts is at its best when you have to worry about the costs of repairs and ammunition, because that's when you have to think more instead of just hacking and slashing.

Unlike D&D and other games, with Rifts, your armor is (unless you're a MDC being) your life, and armor is expensive to repair.
If you have 80 MDC, and you get into a fight where you lose 10 MDC before killing the enemy, it will seem like an easy battle because you're used to games where you get nearly killed every battle, then drink a potion or something afterward to get back up to full.
In Rifts, attrition can often be the main threat. You might only lose 1/8 of your MDC, but that means that if you can't find somebody to repair your armor, and you can't find a way to pay for those repairs, then you're going to die 7 fights from now at this rate.
Of course, that depends on what you're going for. Personally, I like a kind of Firefly feel to Rifts. I like it to feel like as long as you're still standing, and you're not actually behind where you started, then it's a pretty decent day.
Other people seem to like more of a Dragonball feel to things, in which they don't want to spend much time worrying about stuff like repairs or financing.

[Incriptus]

On the subject of Bio-Manip

We have an unofficial ban on Bio-Manipulation: Paralysis. With the big one out of the way the power actually becomes more interesting, Blind is still crippling, and the other's have useful effects. Also remember it says Human and Animals are the only target (and the RUE adds the restriction to people in armor less than 220 MD) so it limits your targets (although it sounds like your players are the target rather than your enemies).

Oh, and it may be an obscure source but Mind Bleeders have a power called Impervious to Bio-Manipulation, but it's unlikely to come up (Although a Psi-Slayer has the option to get it too). Both the CS & Mindwerks have an implant for +1 to save. I do like the idea of a more generic psychic ability to help cure Bio-Manip, Psychic Surgery sounds like a good one. I also like the idea of using Bio-Manip to cure someone elses Bio-Manip

[grandmaster z0b]

I agree that the paralysis effect of Bio-Manipulation is way more powerful than every other effect for combat purposes. There's not much point in blinding or stunning someone if you can just paralyze them, but there might good reasons to use the other abilities in a role playing, story context. If you read the paralyze description at first it says that only the arms and legs are paralyzed but then goes on to say "Spell casters need to speak, so they cannot cast spells while paralyzed." suggesting that paralysis affects every part of the body.

I wouldn't want to remove the paralysis effect completely, however it might be interesting to increase the ISP cost for the paralyze effect to at least 20 or 30 and leave the rest at 10. That makes the other options (particularly Stun which seems to only be useful as a combat effect) more attractive. Another option is to make paralyze easier to save against or decrease the duration.

[guardiandashi]

I agree that the paralysis effect of Bio-Manipulation is way more powerful than every other effect for combat purposes. There's not much point in blinding or stunning someone if you can just paralyze them, but there might good reasons to use the other abilities in a role playing, story context. If you read the paralyze description at first it says that only the arms and legs are paralyzed but then goes on to say "Spell casters need to speak, so they cannot cast spells while paralyzed." suggesting that paralysis affects every part of the body.

I wouldn't want to remove the paralysis effect completely, however it might be interesting to increase the ISP cost for the paralyze effect to at least 20 or 30 and leave the rest at 10. That makes the other options (particularly Stun which seems to only be useful as a combat effect) more attractive. Another option is to make paralyze easier to save against or decrease the duration.

you also might make paralyze more "specific/limited" ie you can paralyze 1 limb such as arm, or leg completely, for base cost, you can put a set of limbs "to sleep" (and don't tell me that the numb/ pins and needles is NOT debilitating) for a similar cost, but an attempt to "paralyze multiple limbs is a LOT harder, and runs a greater risk of "accidently" messing with autonomic functions.

[grandmaster z0b]

I agree that the paralysis effect of Bio-Manipulation is way more powerful than every other effect for combat purposes. There's not much point in blinding or stunning someone if you can just paralyze them, but there might good reasons to use the other abilities in a role playing, story context. If you read the paralyze description at first it says that only the arms and legs are paralyzed but then goes on to say "Spell casters need to speak, so they cannot cast spells while paralyzed." suggesting that paralysis affects every part of the body.

I wouldn't want to remove the paralysis effect completely, however it might be interesting to increase the ISP cost for the paralyze effect to at least 20 or 30 and leave the rest at 10. That makes the other options (particularly Stun which seems to only be useful as a combat effect) more attractive. Another option is to make paralyze easier to save against or decrease the duration.

you also might make paralyze more "specific/limited" ie you can paralyze 1 limb such as arm, or leg completely, for base cost, you can put a set of limbs "to sleep" (and don't tell me that the numb/ pins and needles is NOT debilitating) for a similar cost, but an attempt to "paralyze multiple limbs is a LOT harder, and runs a greater risk of "accidently" messing with autonomic functions.

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea.

[Zer0 Kay]

I agree that the paralysis effect of Bio-Manipulation is way more powerful than every other effect for combat purposes. There's not much point in blinding or stunning someone if you can just paralyze them, but there might good reasons to use the other abilities in a role playing, story context. If you read the paralyze description at first it says that only the arms and legs are paralyzed but then goes on to say "Spell casters need to speak, so they cannot cast spells while paralyzed." suggesting that paralysis affects every part of the body.

I wouldn't want to remove the paralysis effect completely, however it might be interesting to increase the ISP cost for the paralyze effect to at least 20 or 30 and leave the rest at 10. That makes the other options (particularly Stun which seems to only be useful as a combat effect) more attractive. Another option is to make paralyze easier to save against or decrease the duration.

you also might make paralyze more "specific/limited" ie you can paralyze 1 limb such as arm, or leg completely, for base cost, you can put a set of limbs "to sleep" (and don't tell me that the numb/ pins and needles is NOT debilitating) for a similar cost, but an attempt to "paralyze multiple limbs is a LOT harder, and runs a greater risk of "accidently" messing with autonomic functions.

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea.

That really makes sense considering the anti tech magic spell can only disable a single component and iirc, it is fairly high level too.

[grandmaster z0b]

How about it costs 10 ISP per limb, you can only paralyze one limb per level (so at level 4 you can paralyze both legs and both arms) and the victim gets a +1 to save for every extra limb?

[Alrik Vas]

Seems a bit over complicated. I'd just stick with the increased cost.

[Vrykolas2k]

Ooo, scary mind powerz.
Never mind the fact they're easily saved against, and the effects don't last an excessively long time.
Bio-manipulation in any form really isn't that fearsome.

[grandmaster z0b]

Ooo, scary mind powerz.
Never mind the fact they're easily saved against, and the effects don't last an excessively long time.
Bio-manipulation in any form really isn't that fearsome.

4-16 minutes is hardly a short time plus it can be extended another 4-16 minutes for an extra 6 ISP. Spending 10 ISP to completely take someone out of combat seems very powerful: even against master psychics you have a 50% chance of immobilizing someone who you can then kill or capture at your leisure. Compared to any damage dealing attack it's hugely powerful.

In any case my point was to make the other powers more appealing, and to respond to the OP. Personally I'm going to leave it as is.

But of course thanks for you contribution to the discussion.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ooo, scary mind powerz.
Never mind the fact they're easily saved against, and the effects don't last an excessively long time.
Bio-manipulation in any form really isn't that fearsome.

4-16 minutes is hardly a short time plus it can be extended another 4-16 minutes for an extra 6 ISP. Spending 10 ISP to completely take someone out of combat seems very powerful: even against master psychics you have a 50% chance of immobilizing someone who you can then kill or capture at your leisure. Compared to any damage dealing attack it's hugely powerful.

In any case my point was to make the other powers more appealing, and to respond to the OP. Personally I'm going to leave it as is.

But of course thanks for you contribution to the discussion.

What it's only like 16 - 64 melee rounds. It's not like anyone could kill you in that amount of time . Seems like someone may be only thinking it through from the player POV without consideration of it being used on themselves.

[Glistam]

Ooo, scary mind powerz.
Never mind the fact they're easily saved against, and the effects don't last an excessively long time.
Bio-manipulation in any form really isn't that fearsome.

4-16 minutes is hardly a short time plus it can be extended another 4-16 minutes for an extra 6 ISP. Spending 10 ISP to completely take someone out of combat seems very powerful: even against master psychics you have a 50% chance of immobilizing someone who you can then kill or capture at your leisure. Compared to any damage dealing attack it's hugely powerful.

In any case my point was to make the other powers more appealing, and to respond to the OP. Personally I'm going to leave it as is.

But of course thanks for you contribution to the discussion.

What it's only like 16 - 64 melee rounds. It's not like anyone could kill you in that amount of time . Seems like someone may be only thinking it through from the player POV without consideration of it being used on themselves.

Bio-Manipulation: Paralyze was the go-to power for every enemy psychic who could take a super-psionic power in our Rifts game. It was terrifying when used against our party. With the house rule that a natural 1 on a saving throw automatically fails it is always just a matter of time before even our parties toughest fighters succumbed.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ooo, scary mind powerz.
Never mind the fact they're easily saved against, and the effects don't last an excessively long time.
Bio-manipulation in any form really isn't that fearsome.

4-16 minutes is hardly a short time plus it can be extended another 4-16 minutes for an extra 6 ISP. Spending 10 ISP to completely take someone out of combat seems very powerful: even against master psychics you have a 50% chance of immobilizing someone who you can then kill or capture at your leisure. Compared to any damage dealing attack it's hugely powerful.

In any case my point was to make the other powers more appealing, and to respond to the OP. Personally I'm going to leave it as is.

But of course thanks for you contribution to the discussion.

What it's only like 16 - 64 melee rounds. It's not like anyone could kill you in that amount of time . Seems like someone may be only thinking it through from the player POV without consideration of it being used on themselves.

Bio-Manipulation: Paralyze was the go-to power for every enemy psychic who could take a super-psionic power in our Rifts game. It was terrifying when used against our party. With the house rule that a natural 1 on a saving throw automatically fails it is always just a matter of time before even our parties toughest fighters succumbed.

Good thing parties travel in groups cuz one psyched with the power will be able to kill almost anyone.

[HWalsh]

1. Paired Weapons: The way I'm interpreting it is that it lets you parry twice a round instead of once. Is that basically the main advantage of it?

A lot of people here are overlooking one, from page 327 of RUE.

Twin, simultaneous strikes against the same target.


This is a great use of it:

1. Your enemy only gets to parry one of the attacks. (Granted, you lose the ability to parry as well.)

2. I call this the "coalition killer"

This can be used to great effect when combined with called shots. I had a Cyber-Knight go "Lightblade" in main hand and Psi-Sword in off-hand. At 3rd level with fencing, the damage was: 1d4x10+1d6 M.D. and 4d6 M.D. on a dead average roll of 2 on the d4 and 3's on the d6's this comes to 35 damage. (23+12) which will outright kill a Coalition soldier in light old style armor, and with 1-2 more points outright kill one in heavy armor, and any Dog Boy soldier, and can lop an arm off of a Skelebots in a single action. (Well in two actions, as opposed to four)

It can turn a mediocre attack into a heavy one.

Never forget about twin strikes, heh.