min/max

[Zer0 Kay]

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm not looking for averages so what if all roles were maxed.
I'm not looking for random builds so engineer them.
If it has a power that half's damage from a specific note it and multiply the result at the end by 2. If it has resistance against something else at 1/2 that's a plus one to the end multiplier not 2 and certainly not multiplying it a second time.

[Zer0 Kay]

E.g. 1/2 physical attacks, 1/2 lasers = x3
1/2 + 1/3 = x4 (just subtract , the "base" from the denominator of any fraction after the first with a 1 as the divisor.)

[Razorwing]

So... just how many Nightbane features are we allowed to add? It is possible to get a lot of features... especially if we are allowed to claim what rolls make that possible.

[Glistam]

Endless double zeroes!

[Rallan]

Endless double zeroes!

Yeah it's pretty much game over now. The theoretical max SDC/HP for a Nightbane is whatever you get if you take one of everything.

[eliakon]

Endless double zeroes!

Yeah it's pretty much game over now. The theoretical max SDC/HP for a Nightbane is whatever you get if you take one of everything.

Bah, Piker! The rules don't explicitly say you can only take a feature once......So the theoretical max is.....as many SDC/HP as you can be bothered to write down.

[Razorwing]

I'm afraid they're right... if we can manipulate the rolls to get any combination we desire... then there really is no maximum we can't reach.

[eliakon]

SDC: Its only a Flesh Wound
HP: I said its just a scratch
PS: I pick it up
PP: Yep
Spd: I'm Faster
PB: Humuna Humuna
PE: That Tingles
Saves: +yes
PPE: Enough
HF: Your afraid
Awe Factor: Your in awe
Special Resistance: Disregards any sort of attack based on: Heat, Cold, Fire, Light, Energy, Possesion,
Physical Attacks only do half damage
Attacks per Melee: I still have actions dang it!
....
Shall I go on?

[Zer0 Kay]

Endless double zeroes!

Not possible, I said legal and double zeroes says ignore further double zero and the roll below it, so only one combine three. OR combine two as per the rules.

[Zer0 Kay]

So... just how many Nightbane features are we allowed to add? It is possible to get a lot of features... especially if we are allowed to claim what rolls make that possible.

Max per rules, and pick your own rolls.

[Zer0 Kay]

Endless double zeroes!

Yeah it's pretty much game over now. The theoretical max SDC/HP for a Nightbane is whatever you get if you take one of everything.

Bah, Piker! The rules don't explicitly say you can only take a feature once......So the theoretical max is.....as many SDC/HP as you can be bothered to write down.

No doubling unless the trait says you can like glowing eyes. Again all combine two or three rolls usually stat you ignore further double tripple rolls on that table.

[Zer0 Kay]

SDC: Its only a Flesh Wound
HP: I said its just a scratch
PS: I pick it up
PP: Yep
Spd: I'm Faster
PB: Humuna Humuna
PE: That Tingles
Saves: +yes
PPE: Enough
HF: Your afraid
Awe Factor: Your in awe
Special Resistance: Disregards any sort of attack based on: Heat, Cold, Fire, Light, Energy, Possesion,
Physical Attacks only do half damage
Attacks per Melee: I still have actions dang it!
....
Shall I go on?

Yes and try actually following the rules in which infinite double zeroes are not possible.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm afraid they're right... if we can manipulate the rolls to get any combination we desire... then there really is no maximum we can't reach.

look again, incorrect. The presence of an if this trait is rolled again, this is what you do statement means if it is not present in the others then it is a reroll as it can't happen. Also, you chuckleheads, please recall that within animal traits only the highest abilities carry. You do not get the sdc of a rhino and a bear and a bull just the highest one.

[Zer0 Kay]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

[13eowulf]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

But your original post was thus:

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

There is no limiting print there. In fact, you quite explicitly told people to let out their inner munchkin. What everyone else has said here is accurate, if you go FULL munchkin, and use ALL Nightbane/spawn material in print (which includes rifters, if you read that phrase through the hue of the munchkin lens), and you apply the logic of "if it doesnt say we cant then we can", which many people consider the munchkin way of looking at things, then there is no limit to what you can achieve with a Nightbane Morphus. I got up to 400 attacks per melee round once, before I just stopped. And it was technically legal, which, to paraphrase Furturama "is the best kind of legal".
This is why, to paraphrase another film, everybody knows you never go full munchkin.

[eliakon]

Okay....so if you want to put some different strictures on this other than
All Published Sources (which could include Rifter stuff, though I didn't include that)
Not random rolls, so engineer them (which would allow endless 00s)
Sure....But your original post asked for the most munchkin thing that could be built....And I showed you what it was You may not LIKE that result...but as any good Genie can tell you its not the wish granters fault if a wishers wording results in an undesired effect.

[Zer0 Kay]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

But your original post was thus:

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

There is no limiting print there. In fact, you quite explicitly told people to let out their inner munchkin. What everyone else has said here is accurate, if you go FULL munchkin, and use ALL Nightbane/spawn material in print (which includes rifters, if you read that phrase through the hue of the munchkin lens), and you apply the logic of "if it doesnt say we cant then we can", which many people consider the munchkin way of looking at things, then there is no limit to what you can achieve with a Nightbane Morphus. I got up to 400 attacks per melee round once, before I just stopped. And it was technically legal, which, to paraphrase Furturama "is the best kind of legal".
This is why, to paraphrase another film, everybody knows you never go full munchkin.

So, we just ignore the "in legal combinations"? Hmm, I've always taken munchkin as get the most rediculously powerful, while adhering to the rules so the GM can't say you didn't. All while making it less fun for other players because your handling all the encounters.

funny

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay....so if you want to put some different strictures on this other than
All Published Sources (which could include Rifter stuff, though I didn't include that)
Not random rolls, so engineer them (which would allow endless 00s)
Sure....But your original post asked for the most munchkin thing that could be built....And I showed you what it was You may not LIKE that result...but as any good Genie can tell you its not the wish granters fault if a wishers wording results in an undesired effect.

page and book citation for a 00 "combine [x]" that doesn't say ignore further roles of 00? Thanks.

[13eowulf]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

But your original post was thus:

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

There is no limiting print there. In fact, you quite explicitly told people to let out their inner munchkin. What everyone else has said here is accurate, if you go FULL munchkin, and use ALL Nightbane/spawn material in print (which includes rifters, if you read that phrase through the hue of the munchkin lens), and you apply the logic of "if it doesnt say we cant then we can", which many people consider the munchkin way of looking at things, then there is no limit to what you can achieve with a Nightbane Morphus. I got up to 400 attacks per melee round once, before I just stopped. And it was technically legal, which, to paraphrase Furturama "is the best kind of legal".
This is why, to paraphrase another film, everybody knows you never go full munchkin.

So, we just ignore the "in legal combinations"? Hmm, I've always taken munchkin as get the most rediculously powerful, while adhering to the rules so the GM can't say you didn't. All while making it less fun for other players because your handling all the encounters.

funny

No one here ignored "legal combinations", but when going full munchkin (which one should never go), and under the broad parameters of "all published material" the term 'Legal' may not mean what you want it to mean. Every loophole, catch, off-hand-piece-of-text, inconvenient prescient via NPC or flavour text, contradictory text, and technicality can and will be used against you.

Example: Rifter #44, the Comic Book Style Superhero trait. Within this trait you can gain an ADDITIONAL trait from both the the Unearthly Beauty and the Nightbane Characteristics table, and these traits would not count towards the theoretical max from each of those tables, because they are not part of the normal roles, but rather are a special part of the Comic Book Style Superhero trait, and thus are outside those rules.

Now would I let that fly as a GM? Not on your life. But you asked for full munchkin. And lets not get into the Megalomania table...

[Zer0 Kay]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

But your original post was thus:

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

There is no limiting print there. In fact, you quite explicitly told people to let out their inner munchkin. What everyone else has said here is accurate, if you go FULL munchkin, and use ALL Nightbane/spawn material in print (which includes rifters, if you read that phrase through the hue of the munchkin lens), and you apply the logic of "if it doesnt say we cant then we can", which many people consider the munchkin way of looking at things, then there is no limit to what you can achieve with a Nightbane Morphus. I got up to 400 attacks per melee round once, before I just stopped. And it was technically legal, which, to paraphrase Furturama "is the best kind of legal".
This is why, to paraphrase another film, everybody knows you never go full munchkin.

So, we just ignore the "in legal combinations"? Hmm, I've always taken munchkin as get the most rediculously powerful, while adhering to the rules so the GM can't say you didn't. All while making it less fun for other players because your handling all the encounters.

funny

No one here ignored "legal combinations", but when going full munchkin (which one should never go), and under the broad parameters of "all published material" the term 'Legal' may not mean what you want it to mean. Every loophole, catch, off-hand-piece-of-text, inconvenient prescient via NPC or flavour text, contradictory text, and technicality can and will be used against you.

Example: Rifter #44, the Comic Book Style Superhero trait. Within this trait you can gain an ADDITIONAL trait from both the the Unearthly Beauty and the Nightbane Characteristics table, and these traits would not count towards the theoretical max from each of those tables, because they are not part of the normal roles, but rather are a special part of the Comic Book Style Superhero trait, and thus are outside those rules.

Now would I let that fly as a GM? Not on your life. But you asked for full munchkin. And lets not get into the Megalomania table...

Alright and I do want the Rifter stuff. But again I will add:
-- specific traits, unless they specifically refer to the ability to be rolled multiple times, they can each only be used once
-- for the Rifter stuff please note what it is replacing, please follow the guidelines given by the particular rifter article. If it doesn't say what it replaces/substitutes on the creation table, then it obviously can't be used
Thanks, more qualifiers to be added as you guys over munchkin and go into the Umpalumpa zone.

[Zer0 Kay]

Zer0 K@y's dictionary

Munchkin: knowing and abusing the rules while still maintaining legality
Umpalumpa: a munchkin who has gone too far and broken the rules, yet argues that they have not, either due to arrogance, ignorance or both.

[13eowulf]

Am I gonna have to set up a fixed set you guys have to follow because you refuse to read the limiting print?

But your original post was thus:

Using all PB published nightspawn/bane sources, in legal combinations, what is the greatest amount of SDC/HP a Nightspawn can have? Come now, draw out your inner munchkin.

There is no limiting print there. In fact, you quite explicitly told people to let out their inner munchkin. What everyone else has said here is accurate, if you go FULL munchkin, and use ALL Nightbane/spawn material in print (which includes rifters, if you read that phrase through the hue of the munchkin lens), and you apply the logic of "if it doesnt say we cant then we can", which many people consider the munchkin way of looking at things, then there is no limit to what you can achieve with a Nightbane Morphus. I got up to 400 attacks per melee round once, before I just stopped. And it was technically legal, which, to paraphrase Furturama "is the best kind of legal".
This is why, to paraphrase another film, everybody knows you never go full munchkin.

So, we just ignore the "in legal combinations"? Hmm, I've always taken munchkin as get the most rediculously powerful, while adhering to the rules so the GM can't say you didn't. All while making it less fun for other players because your handling all the encounters.

funny

No one here ignored "legal combinations", but when going full munchkin (which one should never go), and under the broad parameters of "all published material" the term 'Legal' may not mean what you want it to mean. Every loophole, catch, off-hand-piece-of-text, inconvenient prescient via NPC or flavour text, contradictory text, and technicality can and will be used against you.

Example: Rifter #44, the Comic Book Style Superhero trait. Within this trait you can gain an ADDITIONAL trait from both the the Unearthly Beauty and the Nightbane Characteristics table, and these traits would not count towards the theoretical max from each of those tables, because they are not part of the normal roles, but rather are a special part of the Comic Book Style Superhero trait, and thus are outside those rules.

Now would I let that fly as a GM? Not on your life. But you asked for full munchkin. And lets not get into the Megalomania table...

Alright and I do want the Rifter stuff. But again I will add:
-- specific traits, unless they specifically refer to the ability to be rolled multiple times, they can each only be used once
-- for the Rifter stuff please note what it is replacing, please follow the guidelines given by the particular rifter article. If it doesn't say what it replaces/substitutes on the creation table, then it obviously can't be used
Thanks, more qualifiers to be added as you guys over munchkin and go into the Umpalumpa zone.

Regarding the bolded section: Says who? Unless this is a custom restriction of your own making no such text exists.

[eliakon]

Ahhh okay. I see. So you DO really have some restrictions you want.
Cool Beans....That's great. What limitations would you like used, so that we can construct the sort of thing you were thinking of the first time (I may answer Dijin style sometimes...but I am willing to also provide desired answers as well.)

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay RAW Nightspawn 1st Printing
--So we have any combination on the appearance table ONE SELECTION, probably 91-00 for Bizarre so that a selection from Unearthly Beauty, Nightspawn characteristic, animal form and stigmata tables
---Unearthly Beauty 91-95: combine 2 and 96-100 develop with GM (or without GM present, which you guys don't have) or roll three times and combine
both state ignore further rolls of 91 or higher.
--Characteristics table 81-90% Two characteristics
91-95 three
96-00 four
all three say ignore further results of 61 and higher which is funny because that includes unnatural limbs. So I assumed they meant 81 and higher (have they corrected this in later printings?)
So we can have four from Unusual Facial Features, Biomechanical, Alien Shape and/or Unnatural Limbs
Animal Form 96-98 is roll twice
99-100 combine three
both say ignore further rolls of 96 or higher and also say to randomly select which bonuses for each stat apply, I SAY USE THE BEST BONUS
Stigmata 97 - 100 combine 2 ignore further rolls of 97

I'm done going through each one. Just follow the rules. I don't know anyplace that doesn't make it so you can do an unlimited combine.

SO
1. Follow the rules
2. Unless a trait specifically infers it can be rolled more than once don't use it more than once "ignore rerolls".
3. For animal traits use the highest modifier
4. Please state the book their from
5. I'm only after SDC and HP so don't forget initial (pre trait) stats
6. No SDC or PE --> HP boosts from skills
7. If you use something from a Rifter make sure you show what it replaced (follow suggested replacements/placements in the Rifter, don't make up your own; so if the Rifter has a trait but there is no suggestion as to where it fits in the original tables don't use it)
8. Make note of resistances/invulnerabilities instead of doing the silly multiplication thing I suggested in the beginning.

Is that enough or is there still some Genie/Umpaloompa things that are going to be done? Where? How? Book and page?

Alright I hope that works this time. Thanks guys.
8.

[13eowulf]

Okay RAW Nightspawn 1st Printing
--So we have any combination on the appearance table ONE SELECTION, probably 91-00 for Bizarre so that a selection from Unearthly Beauty, Nightspawn characteristic, animal form and stigmata tables
---Unearthly Beauty 91-95: combine 2 and 96-100 develop with GM (or without GM present, which you guys don't have) or roll three times and combine
both state ignore further rolls of 91 or higher.
--Characteristics table 81-90% Two characteristics
91-95 three
96-00 four
all three say ignore further results of 61 and higher which is funny because that includes unnatural limbs. So I assumed they meant 81 and higher (have they corrected this in later printings?)
So we can have four from Unusual Facial Features, Biomechanical, Alien Shape and/or Unnatural Limbs
Animal Form 96-98 is roll twice
99-100 combine three
both say ignore further rolls of 96 or higher and also say to randomly select which bonuses for each stat apply, I SAY USE THE BEST BONUS
Stigmata 97 - 100 combine 2 ignore further rolls of 97

I'm done going through each one. Just follow the rules. I don't know anyplace that doesn't make it so you can do an unlimited combine.

SO
1. Follow the rules
2. Unless a trait specifically infers it can be rolled more than once don't use it more than once "ignore rerolls".
3. For animal traits use the highest modifier
4. Please state the book their from
5. I'm only after SDC and HP so don't forget initial (pre trait) stats
6. No SDC or PE --> HP boosts from skills
7. If you use something from a Rifter make sure you show what it replaced (follow suggested replacements/placements in the Rifter, don't make up your own; so if the Rifter has a trait but there is no suggestion as to where it fits in the original tables don't use it)
8. Make note of resistances/invulnerabilities instead of doing the silly multiplication thing I suggested in the beginning.

Is that enough or is there still some Genie/Umpaloompa things that are going to be done? Where? How? Book and page?

Alright I hope that works this time. Thanks guys.
8.

Got it, so anything in the Nightbane Survival Guide is out, cannot be used!

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay RAW Nightspawn 1st Printing
--So we have any combination on the appearance table ONE SELECTION, probably 91-00 for Bizarre so that a selection from Unearthly Beauty, Nightspawn characteristic, animal form and stigmata tables
---Unearthly Beauty 91-95: combine 2 and 96-100 develop with GM (or without GM present, which you guys don't have) or roll three times and combine
both state ignore further rolls of 91 or higher.
--Characteristics table 81-90% Two characteristics
91-95 three
96-00 four
all three say ignore further results of 61 and higher which is funny because that includes unnatural limbs. So I assumed they meant 81 and higher (have they corrected this in later printings?)
So we can have four from Unusual Facial Features, Biomechanical, Alien Shape and/or Unnatural Limbs
Animal Form 96-98 is roll twice
99-100 combine three
both say ignore further rolls of 96 or higher and also say to randomly select which bonuses for each stat apply, I SAY USE THE BEST BONUS
Stigmata 97 - 100 combine 2 ignore further rolls of 97

I'm done going through each one. Just follow the rules. I don't know anyplace that doesn't make it so you can do an unlimited combine.

SO
1. Follow the rules
2. Unless a trait specifically infers it can be rolled more than once don't use it more than once "ignore rerolls".
3. For animal traits use the highest modifier
4. Please state the book their from
5. I'm only after SDC and HP so don't forget initial (pre trait) stats
6. No SDC or PE --> HP boosts from skills
7. If you use something from a Rifter make sure you show what it replaced (follow suggested replacements/placements in the Rifter, don't make up your own; so if the Rifter has a trait but there is no suggestion as to where it fits in the original tables don't use it)
8. Make note of resistances/invulnerabilities instead of doing the silly multiplication thing I suggested in the beginning.

Is that enough or is there still some Genie/Umpaloompa things that are going to be done? Where? How? Book and page?

Alright I hope that works this time. Thanks guys.
8.

Got it, so anything in the Nightbane Survival Guide is out, cannot be used!

Why do you say that? I don't have the book yet.

[13eowulf]

Okay RAW Nightspawn 1st Printing
--So we have any combination on the appearance table ONE SELECTION, probably 91-00 for Bizarre so that a selection from Unearthly Beauty, Nightspawn characteristic, animal form and stigmata tables
---Unearthly Beauty 91-95: combine 2 and 96-100 develop with GM (or without GM present, which you guys don't have) or roll three times and combine
both state ignore further rolls of 91 or higher.
--Characteristics table 81-90% Two characteristics
91-95 three
96-00 four
all three say ignore further results of 61 and higher which is funny because that includes unnatural limbs. So I assumed they meant 81 and higher (have they corrected this in later printings?)
So we can have four from Unusual Facial Features, Biomechanical, Alien Shape and/or Unnatural Limbs
Animal Form 96-98 is roll twice
99-100 combine three
both say ignore further rolls of 96 or higher and also say to randomly select which bonuses for each stat apply, I SAY USE THE BEST BONUS
Stigmata 97 - 100 combine 2 ignore further rolls of 97

I'm done going through each one. Just follow the rules. I don't know anyplace that doesn't make it so you can do an unlimited combine.

SO
1. Follow the rules
2. Unless a trait specifically infers it can be rolled more than once don't use it more than once "ignore rerolls".
3. For animal traits use the highest modifier
4. Please state the book their from
5. I'm only after SDC and HP so don't forget initial (pre trait) stats
6. No SDC or PE --> HP boosts from skills
7. If you use something from a Rifter make sure you show what it replaced (follow suggested replacements/placements in the Rifter, don't make up your own; so if the Rifter has a trait but there is no suggestion as to where it fits in the original tables don't use it)
8. Make note of resistances/invulnerabilities instead of doing the silly multiplication thing I suggested in the beginning.

Is that enough or is there still some Genie/Umpaloompa things that are going to be done? Where? How? Book and page?

Alright I hope that works this time. Thanks guys.
8.

Got it, so anything in the Nightbane Survival Guide is out, cannot be used!

Why do you say that? I don't have the book yet.

Because it has tables that dont fit in with, or as a replacement for, the other book trait tables, including the appearance and characteristics tables. Thus they would be unable to be selected per your restrictions above.

[Glistam]

The nightbane table in the survival guide replaces the table in the main book.

[13eowulf]

The nightbane table in the survival guide replaces the table in the main book.

I am aware, but the main book table has been explicitly created, thus the Survival Guide tables are out.

[Zer0 Kay]

The nightbane table in the survival guide replaces the table in the main book.

I am aware, but the main book table has been explicitly created, thus the Survival Guide tables are out.

Does the survival guide have the same restrictions on combinations, of ignoring rerolls? If so use it. If it allows a combination rolls roll to be another combination on the same table then don't use it.

[Zer0 Kay]

Plus survival guide being pb published fits with the rules and noting that the sg's table replaces the original also follows the rules.

[13eowulf]

So if I understand you correctly you want to create a "munchkin" Nightbane, using a very specific interpretation of the rules OR the Survival Guide rules. But following other specific rules you listed that have no text anywhere in the books?

I no longer understand the exercise.

[Glistam]

I'm onboard with everything except using Rifter material. Declare the results of your rolls and stick to the guidelines listed in the tables for creating Nightbane.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm onboard with everything except using Rifter material. Declare the results of your rolls and stick to the guidelines listed in the tables for creating Nightbane.

If you want to do it that way I don't want to know about it. EDIT: that does't read right, I mean If your not going to use the rifters you don't need to tell me, they're optional.
I am trying to find out what THE MAX HP/SDC is for a nightspawn. To do this the nightspawn must be engineered. So besides, essentially, picking your own rolls, all the other rules must be followed.

[Zer0 Kay]

So if I understand you correctly you want to create a "munchkin" Nightbane, using a very specific interpretation of the rules OR the Survival Guide rules. But following other specific rules you listed that have no text anywhere in the books?

I no longer understand the exercise.

I can't interpret anything from the survival guide... [sarcastic whisper] I DON"T HAVE IT. [/sarcastic whisper]

Which rules don't have text anywhere in the book?

[Glistam]

So here's my 2¢ attempt. I picked some categories I knew would give high results - there may be better combinations of rolls and tables but I didn't explore all possible options. All rolls were engineered and are explained in the spoiler tag.

Final H.P.: 116
Final S.D.C.: 1198
Additional Notes: Natural A.R. of 15. Takes half damage from blunt attacks, bullets, projectiles, impacts and explosions, as well as fire, heat and extreme cold. Has an air supply good for 300 minutes. Can breathe underwater and on land indefinitely. Underwater depth tolerance is 3 miles.

Spoiler:

Character Creation

• Max P.E. roll of 24 (Nightbane main book page 33 only mentions one bonus die, not two like some other Palladium games).
  
  • Hit Point roll of 1D6 results in a 6, giving starting H.P. of 30
• Maximum base S.D.C. roll is 40 (Nightbane main book page 36, assumed "athletic" background)

Skills

• Possible S.D.C. or P.E. stat bonuses due to skills are ignored, as per Rule #6 of this post.

Nightbane Base Form

• The Nightbane character receives a starting S.D.C. that is "higher than human: 30 plus skill bonuses" (Nightbane main book page 87). Since the Human S.D.C. was already calculated, I will add the 30 to the already rolled S.D.C. for a current result of 70
• In Morphus form, S.D.C. and H.P. both are adjusted to the following values:
  
  • H.P. is recalculated (P.E. × 2 + 2D6) to a new value of 80, due to Morphus bonus of +10 to P.E. (P.E. is now 34)
  • S.D.C. has 2D6×10 added to it, with max roll becomes 190

Nightbane Characteristics

• A roll of 66% to 70% on the New Appearance Table on page 70 of the Nightbane Survival Guide results with "Bizarre" and prompts rolls on the Unearthly Beauty, New Nightbane Characteristics, Animal Form, Aquatic Biomechanical or Unusual Limbs II tables. Let's take this one at a time.

Unearthly Beauty

• A roll on the table in the main Nightbane book, page 92, will result in first a 91%-95%, combination of two, which then results in a roll of 51%-70%, Physical Perfection, and 71%-90%, Fallen Angel.
• Physical Perfection
  
  • P.E. is increased by 1D4 to 38, resulting in new H.P. of 88
  • S.D.C. is increased by 4D6 to 214
• Fallen Angel
  
  • S.D.C. is increased by 3D6 to 232

New Nightbane Characteristics Table

• Here we roll a 96%-00%, rolling or selecting two categories. Of those, we'll go with 01%-05%, Geo-Creature and 31%-40%, Biomechanical.
• Geo-Creature (Mineral Table II, page 93 of the Nightbane Survival Guide is chosen here)
  
  • A roll of 51%-60% results in Iron: Hematite. Adds +2 to P.E., re-figuring H.P. to now be 92
  • S.D.C. has 3D6×10+66 added, resulting in new S.D.C. of 478
  • The 'Bane takes half damage from blunt attacks, bullets, projectiles, impacts and explosions, as well as fire, heat and extreme cold. Weapons and Fiery torches can be parried with bare hands.
• Biomechanical (Table I, Nightbane main book page 105)
  
  • A roll of 81% to 90% results in Wheels or Treads.
  • P.E. is increased by 2, increasing H.P. to 96
  • S.D.C. increases by 3D6×10, new S.D.C. is 658

Animal Form Table

• The Nightbane Survival Guide allows one to substitute the "Aquatic Animal Form Table" and we'll do that here. A result of 99%-00% on that table on page 75 of the Survival Guide results in the following: Combination of Three: Roll three times on this table (ignore and re-roll any result of 96% or higher), and combine the elements from the three animals. Choose and combine two sets of the animal's bonuses and ignore the third completely. In true Munchkin form, we will roll 20%-38% all three times, resulting in the Crustacean table all three times. Each of those three rolls on that table will all be 01%-20%, giving Giant Crustacean as all three results.
• Giant Crustacean
  
  • +1D4 to P.E., combined twice (doubled) causes H.P. to increase to 112
  • +4D6×10 to S.D.C., combined twice (doubled) results in new S.D.C. of 1138
  • The 'Bane now has a Natural A.R. of 15, can breathe underwater and on land, and has a maximum underwater depth tolerance of 3 miles.

Aquatic Biomechanical

• This table gives a better S.D.C. increase than the the limbs table does, so we go with this. A roll of 01%-10% on page 82 of the Nightbane Survival Guide results in a Deep Sea Diving Suit Skin.
  
  • +2 to P.E., giving a new H.P. of 116
  • +1D6×10 to S.D.C., resulting in a new S.D.C. of 1198
  • Has an air supply good for 4D6+60 minutes, resulting in 300 minutes.

[Zer0 Kay]

So here's my 2¢ attempt. I picked some categories I knew would give high results - there may be better combinations of rolls and tables but I didn't explore all possible options. All rolls were engineered and are explained in the spoiler tag.

Final H.P.: 116
Final S.D.C.: 1198
Additional Notes: Natural A.R. of 15. Takes half damage from blunt attacks, bullets, projectiles, impacts and explosions, as well as fire, heat and extreme cold. Has an air supply good for 300 minutes. Can breathe underwater and on land indefinitely. Underwater depth tolerance is 3 miles.

Spoiler:

Character Creation

• Max P.E. roll of 24 (Nightbane main book page 33 only mentions one bonus die, not two like some other Palladium games).
  
  • Hit Point roll of 1D6 results in a 6, giving starting H.P. of 30
• Maximum base S.D.C. roll is 40 (Nightbane main book page 36, assumed "athletic" background)

Skills

• Possible S.D.C. or P.E. stat bonuses due to skills are ignored, as per Rule #6 of this post.

Nightbane Base Form

• The Nightbane character receives a starting S.D.C. that is "higher than human: 30 plus skill bonuses" (Nightbane main book page 87). Since the Human S.D.C. was already calculated, I will add the 30 to the already rolled S.D.C. for a current result of 70
• In Morphus form, S.D.C. and H.P. both are adjusted to the following values:
  
  • H.P. is recalculated (P.E. × 2 + 2D6) to a new value of 80, due to Morphus bonus of +10 to P.E. (P.E. is now 34)
  • S.D.C. has 2D6×10 added to it, with max roll becomes 190

Nightbane Characteristics

• A roll of 66% to 70% on the New Appearance Table on page 70 of the Nightbane Survival Guide results with "Bizarre" and prompts rolls on the Unearthly Beauty, New Nightbane Characteristics, Animal Form, Aquatic Biomechanical or Unusual Limbs II tables. Let's take this one at a time.

Unearthly Beauty

• A roll on the table in the main Nightbane book, page 92, will result in first a 91%-95%, combination of two, which then results in a roll of 51%-70%, Physical Perfection, and 71%-90%, Fallen Angel.
• Physical Perfection
  
  • P.E. is increased by 1D4 to 38, resulting in new H.P. of 88
  • S.D.C. is increased by 4D6 to 214
• Fallen Angel
  
  • S.D.C. is increased by 3D6 to 232

New Nightbane Characteristics Table

• Here we roll a 96%-00%, rolling or selecting two categories. Of those, we'll go with 01%-05%, Geo-Creature and 31%-40%, Biomechanical.
• Geo-Creature (Mineral Table II, page 93 of the Nightbane Survival Guide is chosen here)
  
  • A roll of 51%-60% results in Iron: Hematite. Adds +2 to P.E., re-figuring H.P. to now be 92
  • S.D.C. has 3D6×10+66 added, resulting in new S.D.C. of 478
  • The 'Bane takes half damage from blunt attacks, bullets, projectiles, impacts and explosions, as well as fire, heat and extreme cold. Weapons and Fiery torches can be parried with bare hands.
• Biomechanical (Table I, Nightbane main book page 105)
  
  • A roll of 81% to 90% results in Wheels or Treads.
  • P.E. is increased by 2, increasing H.P. to 96
  • S.D.C. increases by 3D6×10, new S.D.C. is 658

Animal Form Table

• The Nightbane Survival Guide allows one to substitute the "Aquatic Animal Form Table" and we'll do that here. A result of 99%-00% on that table on page 75 of the Survival Guide results in the following: Combination of Three: Roll three times on this table (ignore and re-roll any result of 96% or higher), and combine the elements from the three animals. Choose and combine two sets of the animal's bonuses and ignore the third completely. In true Munchkin form, we will roll 20%-38% all three times, resulting in the Crustacean table all three times. Each of those three rolls on that table will all be 01%-20%, giving Giant Crustacean as all three results.
• Giant Crustacean
  
  • +1D4 to P.E., combined twice (doubled) causes H.P. to increase to 112
  • +4D6×10 to S.D.C., combined twice (doubled) results in new S.D.C. of 1138
  • The 'Bane now has a Natural A.R. of 15, can breathe underwater and on land, and has a maximum underwater depth tolerance of 3 miles.

Aquatic Biomechanical

• This table gives a better S.D.C. increase than the the limbs table does, so we go with this. A roll of 01%-10% on page 82 of the Nightbane Survival Guide results in a Deep Sea Diving Suit Skin.
  
  • +2 to P.E., giving a new H.P. of 116
  • +1D6×10 to S.D.C., resulting in a new S.D.C. of 1198
  • Has an air supply good for 4D6+60 minutes, resulting in 300 minutes.

Nice.
I LOVE how you use the spoiler function to minimize the post!
I'd dare say it's a beautifully elegant and efficient post.

AND that was my response before expanding the spoiler. $.02 my backside, it is beautiful, freaking beautiful at least $20.00 . Glistam you are a post artist. I hope to see more of your work elsewhere.

[eliakon]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

So unless you are also using survival guide and it allows for rerolls of the combine rolls, ya just broke a rule. And since the megalomania table doesn't replace something on either official table it is out too. Good try, nice and high, but doesn't fit in the rules. please try again.

[eliakon]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

So unless you are also using survival guide and it allows for rerolls of the combine rolls, ya just broke a rule. And since the megalomania table doesn't replace something on either official table it is out too. Good try, nice and high, but doesn't fit in the rules. please try again.

The tables in question all have rerolls allowed.
Each time I took a reroll its on the individual roll. Let me break that down
I get 4 rolls on the Darksider table.
each of those rolls, can have a 00. THAT roll can not be rerolled, but each of the four BASE rolls can get a re-roll
Stigmata is the same way. Each time you go to that table its a fresh roll. Thus each of those rolls can have its own double roll.
The Meglomania table is an add on table, just like the clothing table its just tacked on top of the others (or at least that is one interpretation of the wording of the article. As you ask us to go full munchkin I am going to go with that interpretation)
So...yes unfortunately this monstrosity is technically 'legal'

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

So unless you are also using survival guide and it allows for rerolls of the combine rolls, ya just broke a rule. And since the megalomania table doesn't replace something on either official table it is out too. Good try, nice and high, but doesn't fit in the rules. please try again.

The tables in question all have rerolls allowed.
Each time I took a reroll its on the individual roll. Let me break that down
I get 4 rolls on the Darksider table.
each of those rolls, can have a 00. THAT roll can not be rerolled, but each of the four BASE rolls can get a re-roll
Stigmata is the same way. Each time you go to that table its a fresh roll. Thus each of those rolls can have its own double roll.
The Meglomania table is an add on table, just like the clothing table its just tacked on top of the others (or at least that is one interpretation of the wording of the article. As you ask us to go full munchkin I am going to go with that interpretation)
So...yes unfortunately this monstrosity is technically 'legal'

K so combos from multiple base rolls sure but you still can't per rules I gave which are rules I was given use the same trait multiple times unless the trait specific implies it. So though you may get 4 combine 2 from stigmatta, they can't all be exoskeleton. And the megolomaniacle table is out as it is a option even the writer suggests not to use which has my GM say:

"Uh... no, well let me make sure this is clear. Hell no, Cthulu is more likely to have a mutually affectionat marriage with a sane human."

[eliakon]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

So unless you are also using survival guide and it allows for rerolls of the combine rolls, ya just broke a rule. And since the megalomania table doesn't replace something on either official table it is out too. Good try, nice and high, but doesn't fit in the rules. please try again.

The tables in question all have rerolls allowed.
Each time I took a reroll its on the individual roll. Let me break that down
I get 4 rolls on the Darksider table.
each of those rolls, can have a 00. THAT roll can not be rerolled, but each of the four BASE rolls can get a re-roll
Stigmata is the same way. Each time you go to that table its a fresh roll. Thus each of those rolls can have its own double roll.
The Meglomania table is an add on table, just like the clothing table its just tacked on top of the others (or at least that is one interpretation of the wording of the article. As you ask us to go full munchkin I am going to go with that interpretation)
So...yes unfortunately this monstrosity is technically 'legal'

K so combos from multiple base rolls sure but you still can't per rules I gave which are rules I was given use the same trait multiple times unless the trait specific implies it. So though you may get 4 combine 2 from stigmatta, they can't all be exoskeleton. And the megolomaniacle table is out as it is a option even the writer suggests not to use which has my GM say:

"Uh... no, well let me make sure this is clear. Hell no, Cthulu is more likely to have a mutually affectionat marriage with a sane human."

Okay, I will admit I miss interpreted your limitation on the multiple thing. I can redo something with different stuff.
As for the Meglo thing, I will make a note that you are now changing the rules to be "using all published material, except the megalomania table". Are there any OTHER tables/items/abilities you would like to take off the table now, before build something?

[drewkitty ~..~]

For one char I was trying for the weakest NS but still playable as a nightspawn using all but the NBSG (was pre-NBSG) as feture source text.
NB features
Animal Magnetism:
Legendary Weapon (excalibur <long sword w/ sheath),

facade [morphus]
HP--13 +1d6/L [26 +2d6/L]
SDC--30 [130]
MDC--0.43 [156]
AF--6
Legendary Weapon HF-- 18 to those who know what it is and are confronted with it
PPE--150 +3d6/L
Chi--26
OCC--pandora project Researcher

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay here is my token effort. I am using the Rifter #20 (if only to demonstrate its brokenness)

Spoiler:

To start with I will take a Darksider
This gets
-One Animal Table
-One Alien Shape
1d4 rolls on the dark side table (4)
I will select for those rolls 00 (two more rolls for all, giving eight total) Followed by eight selections of 11-20 for stigmata

The Animal will take the Ankylosaurid table 17-20
+20 PE +600 SDC Natural AR 14

For the Stigmata table, all eight rolls will be 97- 00 (roll again twice) followed by taking 86-90 Bones
This results in 5d6x10x16 SDC for another 4800 SDC

For the Alien Shape I will take 96-00 roll twice, with 25-37 x2
2d6x10 SDC

I will then go the ‘bonus tables’ in Rifter #20

First I look a “clothing”If I take 01-09 I get Armor
+3d4x10 SDC and +2 to my AR
Then I roll on the “Multiple Body table” and get -01-10 Siamese Twines
This provides 1d4x10 SDC and +2 PE
Since we are going “full munchkin” I will roll on the Meglomania Table taking 31-40 for Invicnible
This gives +20 PE SDC x3 HP times x5


PE: 24+20+20+2 66
HP: (66*2+12)*5 720
SDC (40+30+120+600+4800+120+124+40)*3 17,622
Natural Armor Rating of 16

Final Tally
PE: 66
HP: 720
SDC: 17,622
nAR: 16

So unless you are also using survival guide and it allows for rerolls of the combine rolls, ya just broke a rule. And since the megalomania table doesn't replace something on either official table it is out too. Good try, nice and high, but doesn't fit in the rules. please try again.

The tables in question all have rerolls allowed.
Each time I took a reroll its on the individual roll. Let me break that down
I get 4 rolls on the Darksider table.
each of those rolls, can have a 00. THAT roll can not be rerolled, but each of the four BASE rolls can get a re-roll
Stigmata is the same way. Each time you go to that table its a fresh roll. Thus each of those rolls can have its own double roll.
The Meglomania table is an add on table, just like the clothing table its just tacked on top of the others (or at least that is one interpretation of the wording of the article. As you ask us to go full munchkin I am going to go with that interpretation)
So...yes unfortunately this monstrosity is technically 'legal'

K so combos from multiple base rolls sure but you still can't per rules I gave which are rules I was given use the same trait multiple times unless the trait specific implies it. So though you may get 4 combine 2 from stigmatta, they can't all be exoskeleton. And the megolomaniacle table is out as it is a option even the writer suggests not to use which has my GM say:

"Uh... no, well let me make sure this is clear. Hell no, Cthulu is more likely to have a mutually affectionat marriage with a sane human."

Okay, I will admit I miss interpreted your limitation on the multiple thing. I can redo something with different stuff.
As for the Meglo thing, I will make a note that you are now changing the rules to be "using all published material, except the megalomania table". Are there any OTHER tables/items/abilities you would like to take off the table now, before build something?

I didn't change the rules you just didn't read them the way I meant them cuz your not in my head .Any published (by Palladium) list you use has to replace an item on the original list. The list from NB survival guide replaces the whole list. MOST of the lists from the rifters say what they could replace. The Meglo list doesn't replace anything rather it is a suggested don't add on list and add ons to the main list aren't allowed.

[Zer0 Kay]

For one char I was trying for the weakest NS but still playable as a nightspawn using all but the NBSG (was pre-NBSG) as feture source text.
NB features
Animal Magnetism:
Legendary Weapon (excalibur <long sword w/ sheath),

facade [morphus]
HP--13 +1d6/L [26 +2d6/L]
SDC--30 [130]
MDC--0.43 [156]
AF--6
Legendary Weapon HF-- 18 to those who know what it is and are confronted with it
PPE--150 +3d6/L
Chi--26

Uh... DK what's this gotta do with the OP? Did you just want to post?

[drewkitty ~..~]

since the topic has already shown the munchkin (Max.) end of the spectrum I took the topic title to max/min it to show a "Real Roleplayer "(min.) end of the spectrum.

Maybe someone can post a "Loony" char too

[eliakon]

since the topic has already shown the munchkin (Max.) end of the spectrum I took the topic title to max/min it to show a "Real Roleplayer "(min.) end of the spectrum.

There is no need to insult people, and the implications of the statement above are rather insulting to a great deal of many people, since you are implying that "Real Roleplayers" are only those people who play a specific type of build (super low SDC in this case, never mind that you took one of the most powerful personal attacks ever published), and that people who play high SDC builds are both munchkins and thus can not be roleplayers. are highly insulting.

Zero Kay does have a point though in pointing out that the thread was about one thing....so posts of other things are completely off topic. Purposefully posting off topic in threads is a violation of Forum Rules.

Maybe someone can post a "Loony" char too

Only if they are trying to get reported for purposefully trying to derail a thread. If you want to start a thread about builds then feel free. But please do not try to hijack other peoples threads.

[Jefffar]

This one has devolved repeatedly, I think it's probably best to just let it die at this point.